Transcript for:
Nanjan Hiranandani's Real Estate Journey

nanjan sir I've been hearing your name since I was a kid that's your legacy that a whole area is named after you Nan hiranandani co-founder of hiranandani group is a Titan in India's real estate sector and one of for's top 100 richest Indians with a net worth of $1.6 billion was there an underworld element for a very long time in your industry there was and I was even targeted can you beginner career as a builder without investing any of your own money I always advise that people should came up as an area because you made those buildings it was a bit of a gamble it was a big leap in the dark people said Pai is a place where you go for recreation who's going to reside over there we took the challenge could you have actually gone broke because of that gamble of course if I have to look at the murky side of real estate I promise you I wouldn't tell anybody to get into it what was it like trying to begin a business career in India in the 7s very very very difficult no banks would give money in those days people were ashamed to deal with a building how do you define a good building in 35 years I made 5,000 Apartments not a single apartment leaks what's a vision you have for Mumbai over the next 10 years next 10 years we should have zero slums in Mumbai your goal post is creating an impact in society so there was a young girl who introduced me said Mr nanjan hiranandani is different everybody creates history nanan hiranandani in Hawai has created geography someone around my age in their 30s in India is looking to purchase purchase a house for me at least so I would want amenities in the building that depends on your capability of buying but a home is a home it doesn't matter if it's a kouta or it's a palace I've seen koutas which are more happy than the Palaces in this country what an honor it was to host one of my own business idols and one of India's biggest ever real estate Legends in my own house this is honestly what dreams are made of according to me it's nanjan hiranandani on today's episode of TRS of course we spoke about real estate but my attempt was to bring forward his real personality the emotions behind the mind the heart behind the thoughts it's nanjan hiranandani sir on today's episode of TRS [Music] nanan sir welcome to TRS what an honor to Simply have your time happy to be with you ranir feels good do you remember the last time we spoke on that flight on that flight yes we did very important moment for me to just sit next to you I think I spoke about you on one of our episodes as well I see yeah that you know this is the joy of podcasting that it reaches your Idols basically I've been hearing your name since I was a kid growing up in Mumbai going to hiranandani in pawai for the first time the area see that's that's your legacy that a whole area is named after you so uh very cool for me that that my work had reached you but it's even cooler that you gave me some of my life's best advice oh I didn't know that what did I say I forgotten I think when I met you uh I was uh in the middle of a lot of chaos I uh it had already been seven seven and a half years of content creation uh and I was nervous about my journey going forward and you I didn't even ask you this question directly you were just talking about your own Journey but you said that when you first made a building uh all those years ago uh you barely knew how to make a building and then every building after that you just kept improving incrementally and I real I that that's probably the answer you just have to worry about incremental improvements yeah you have to in life uh better yourself every day and if you just better yourself every day the ordinary person becomes extraordinary and even though he doesn't know it that he's becoming extraordinary so what tends to happen is that uh in life somebody's BL up with at this level in life whether monetarily intellectually or any other way and there are other people who have more money or they have more intellect or they have more capability but when you actually live life you suddenly realize that the person who didn't have the money or didn't have the capability or didn't have the capacity or didn't have the backing suddenly Rose to a different level it's simply because the hair in the torto story works the person who keep keeps on improving in incrementally every day while the other person is so overconfident that you know I'm already more moneyed or I'm already more talented or I'm already more capable uh he just takes it little easy so what happens is the other person who's really working on it and continuously working all his life uh actually surpasses the other people and the person who surpasses who actually goes ahead is himself or herself surprised oh my God I'm ahead of this other person and it's simply uh you know the easiest thing in the world to do which is what I probably did uh have you heard of Mamba mentality Mamba yeah there was a legendary basketball player called Kobe Bryant and he used to keep speaking about Mamba mentality which is all about being very very focused and active during the game but when you're not playing the game it's about incremental improvements absolutely um and I think Mamba mentality applies outside of the sports world as well so we have a Mamba sitting in front of us today thank you I never knew I was Mamba but it's great to hear that I I feel one has to have a certain kind of edge or aggression or intensity to be able to shake up the world the way you have uh but you know if someone's interacting with you in person you're a very relaxed guy that's what I spoke to you about in the plane as well that how are you so relaxed because you have a very heavy Legacy behind you I'd like to know about this intensity angle a little bit um I think I always looked up to people and I always wanted to reach there I wanted to be like this person or like that person and wanted to be there but I was actually not confident of going and reaching there but the aspiration was always there the fire in the belly was there but I knew I was not capable I knew that I didn't have the capacity I knew that [Music] I what what's the issue there but I think over a period of time one realized that if you keep on moving moving up um keep on trying keep on making that effort uh the the effort and falling many times also during the course of that moving up itself gives you that experience to move up the value chain uh and reach there so you know the most difficult Journey starts with a single step but then you keep on taking those steps and it works uh surprisingly when I tell people that if you're consistent you can beat the the best of people and uh and it has worked in my life and I've seen so many ordinary people who have no capabilities I'm saying miners capabilities also in the field of activity but with their consistent desire that little fire in the belly we must reach there that is where people do Aspire for and it works and it works across the board over a period of years I've seen more and more people who are not so rich not so capable average intellect average uh College records reach extraordinary Heights just by being consistent persistent and always there and so have you I thank you sir uh I I don't know where I'm taking things but uh I didn't know where I was taking things either when I met you on that flight and and uh the biggest lesson I've learned from you is to just carry on keep moving forward keep getting slightly better there was a story you told me in the plane about your Origins your superhero origins story um I think it was age 35 where you really changed things up uh yeah uh roughly that's right um I'd love for you to repeat that story about your mid-30s about how did you actually begin this business bus Journey that you're known for today but first I'd also like to ask you about pre mid-30s like in your 20s what was happening like what was up well the first part of the story is that I belong to a family of professionals doctors my father was a padmabhushan dantri award Dr El hiranandani Famous ENT specialist very well recognized coming from a poverty background and becoming a you know an extraordinary doctor working very hard so nanjan hirani looked at his father and elder brother who's also becoming a doctor and saying I can't work so hard so I don't want to be a doctor so difficult to become a doctor and I took the easiest thing out which was to do Commerce and uh of course in bom my father and his friend Dr Mr Nani palala persuaded me to do CA which was not so easy and I did that just because the two of them wanted me to do it but I was always looking to looking up to people who were in The Business of business my father's patients happened to be Mr bah ganab Das bah in those days mafat who were the second biggest company in those days um the Tartas of course and all of them happened to be my father's patients so I always used to meet them and swanky big cars big things thing and you could see how successful they were uh so there was something in the back of my mind that I thought it was the world of business people talk about it being uh part of my family but there was no one in my family who was even remotely into business no not even remotely so it so my idea of the business world was very different than the reality which it is and when I got into Commerce and the other things but I did a little bit of things during my bcom which was internship and going and working in gueron and Century Mills so my life started actually by starting a a spin uh weaving unit in charob kandivali so I put up 400 looms over there and produce gray cloth which I sold to gueron and Century Mills in those days and uh I was 28 28 29 this is late '70s yeah yeah 7 8 79 and uh later on I got into some investments into real estate and at a certain point of time I was losing money in both couldn't decide which one to give up because I I couldn't decide then I got a letter from the union and the letter said we want a 100% increase in wages 100% zero mistake it must be 10% and they said no no no and you know those were the days of data Sant where they would ask anything and uh they asked me for 100% increase in wages and since I couldn't decide which one to give up I gave up uh the weaving unit and sold that off paid off the debts that were there and went full-fledged into real estate real estate that's the story and then I didn't look back because I said now having given up something and now I'm into something else uh I can't be unsuccessful my father is so successful so big so everything everyone looks up to him whether he's a industrialist or politician or anybody or the man in the street would look up to him so I thought that you know I must make myself successful I never thought about uh you know money in that terms but actually I wanted to be successful what was it like trying to begin a business career in India in the' 70s very very very difficult very difficult there was no we had very little Capital uh there were not much money available real estate no banks would give money borrowed money on hundes at 2% interest per month uh very very tough the life was very difficult and there was no credibility of being in that business because you had the maans and the USU patels who were actually you know the famous persons in the buildings and so there was no credibility and distinguished from my father who had all the credibility but not the kind of money which a businessman would have uh I suddenly realized that you know I maybe I was in the wrong line and the effort was then to actually make myself credible not the line credible and fortunately over a period of time the line became credible so uh you know it's not it's not too bad being called a developer or Builder today but in those days yeah people were ashamed to deal with a buildup was there an underworld element for a very long time in your industry there was and uh I I had to have security for some period of time and I was even targeted by the underworld because I wasn't paying up uh and yes I did have to take security but it was for a short period of time and then the the M the situations changed the government actually attacked the underworld in terms of those who were actually participation there were a lot of shootouts and stuff and then it's become all right but more than that I think U the change which has happened in the real estate industry is the fact that uh people make good buildings in my day and time when we started there were very very very few people who made good buildings nobody almost nobody I mean I would say one less than 1% of the buildings or Builders were actually credible or worthwhile talking to or honest and hence the industry got a bad name so when you did good work in the beginning you were still colored by the fact that you were a builder but over a period of time as we continued to work and delivered Goods in the industry uh I think we built up The credibility and over a period of time the industry itself became credible so you have uh all the industrialists also who were never there in my day and time actually come into the business Great Eastern started godage data housing you name it now so many of the Aditya Billa all of them are in the real estate business in those days it was Zero nobody not a single person and even Banks didn't give any money today the banks do lend for construction and real estate so it's different easier and the market has expanded and lots of lots of changes have taken place over a period of 35 years that I work is there room for a thousand more nanan hiranandani in India over the next 10 years more than that India is such a big country forget uh India let's talk about Mumbai for a minute today uh Mumbai is the finance capital of India it's the richest city in India I think Delhi or national capital region is now catching up but 50% of my population live in Jer putties and half of them actually could afford to buy a house of the size that they are staying in if such houses were created so it is possible the the whole thing is such a big thing of Industry that the future is uh much better than the past okay I want to go back to what you said about building good buildings how do you define a good building I'm assuming it's part safety part design part livability and what else okay before I answer that question let me ask you a question sure sir I made 6,000 apartments in paai what do you think is the best thing that nanan hiranandani has done in hiranandani gardens in Pai just a question just one not even one or two or three whatever you'd like to remember because you said you you praised me or the project so can I know one thing that you know sure sir and I'll tell you one thing which I consider is most credible can I can I give you two yeah okay uh I'll give you one from the childhood perspective that I have of going to pawai for the first time in my life uh I remember looking at all those buildings with that kind of design and thinking wow India's changing because of the design at uh you know the because of the design you could see in the buildings so for me maybe because I was always artsy I loved like the way you designed it first and foremost uh and the second I'd say is the general quality of life that you always saw people have in hiranandani gardens in Bai uh great school Gardens things to do restaurants Etc which now seems a little more common than it used to be in the late '90s and early 2000s but this is again very civilian perspective never built a building in my life so I don't know but maybe you'll answer it differently uh I I I I won't answer it differently but I'll answer something which people are not aware of sure 5,000 Apartments not a single apartment leaks H in 35 years what happens is that there are things which you don't see so buildings I made 35 years ago structurally today are so sound that none of them requires structural repairs in 35 years not one some of the buildings are now being painted after 20 25 years for the first time quality of the buildings so it's not just about what you see from the outside which is the design and all the other things and the amenities which are obvious but also solidity inside and of course commitment to a customer the integrity and honesty in terms of dealing with it so when you see something which is I'm very happy that you see it and so many people uh you know compliment us for this for the work that we have done but there are so many other things that we have done in paai which people may not be able to see also as far as those things are concerned for example we have this largest sewage recycling plant in Mumbai we recycle 4 million lers of water every day since last 25 years much before all this issue of sustainability was talked about we have already done that in pawai and we have also done it in Tani so what actually happens is when you want to do something well whether it's a podcast or it's a acting in a movie or it's building a building or it's this the idea is you keep on improving the quality of the buildings including the Aesthetics including other things and right so you're always moving up the value chain and many many times Builders come and tell me and happily so you know we studied your last building which you did and now we're building a copy of your building wherever jaur this that for and and you know I mean everybody's so happy that we have copied your building but I've already moved ahead because my next building has something better and newer that we have already done so the idea is you it's a escalator you just have to keep walking going up up up up up in terms of what you do better in the future than what you have done in the past and it's simple because what you do is keep on improving whatever you have done and level you've reach just move up one step more do you perceive yourself as an artist a little bit uh artist I think uh no I think I am more a service provider I'm more about worrying about what you will like rather than just what I would like and uh it's not about just the art of the building over there for instance the design of a building conceptually is very beautiful but more than that it's a sustainable type you will not be able to recognize the age of my buildings by looking at it somebody came to Pai and he said I like your new building and pointed out to building and I smiled because it was only 25 years old so when we work on Art it's not just art for art sake it's not just betiful it's a there is a lot of so much other thing that goes into those kind like for instance you go to chhatrapati shagi station as well as the corporation building or the Gateway of India it's sustainable even after 100 years it's attractive that's what paai is all about or pan is about and now pville is about so all these projects are made in such a way that they have something Beyond just beautiful things so it's that's the facade that's the outside part of it but the inside the the whole thing is much more solid than what you just see from the outside you bought the land in pawai before you made the buildings and paai came up as an area because you made those buildings how did you sell your first few properties my God andir you that's such a s plot point it's it's it was so difficult so difficult because people said you know paai is a place where you go for recreation and weekend homes in those days and stuff and then you know make Bangalore and stuff and all who's going to reside over there and was so difficult to reach there accessibility was not there and stuff like that we took the challenge and we made 40 row houses and we made 500 Apartments in the first sector in pawai hiranandani gardens in paai and and I prove right I sold my 500 Apartments before I could sell my 42 roow houses so many times you have to be ahead of the curve you have to think ahead and uh that's there in every business that you do you you are ahead in your podcasting thing because you think ahead of other people in terms of how you should do this uh podcasting and how you actually disseminate this knowledge Gan through social media similarly we also have to actually work towards and understand what is it that really we bring to the table in each of the projects that we do and uh so it is Art but it's also a science and it's also technology it's a lot of things put together it's not just one thing uh over a period of years years you realize that this is a complete different Gan you know just like any other line at least this topic about selling your first few pawai properties seems like it was a bit of a gamble you could have like gotten barbad as they call it true fair to say yeah I was actually secretive about the size of the plot that I bought from my own family uh we bought 250 acres and I think I I told my family that we had bought 25 acres or 50 acres and you know we would pay it by installments which we did but uh I didn't tell the truth that we i' had really gone for leap in the dark so yes that is true could you have actually gone broke because of that gamble of course if things didn't work out the way you of course any any leap any large leaps in the world of business which is uh new uh could go wrong and uh we went through only five recessions so uh it's not that uh things didn't go wrong it went wrong five times and uh so we have gone through five recessions during this period of things and lots of problems in between so ups and downs in business is a part of business and unless you don't have the Downs uh in 35 years if somebody tells me in business he never had a downside he's a liar so it's only about sustainability of being able to override the problems that you had and sometimes you can't because there's an earthquake and you collapse into the crevice but uh you have to keep walking up and uh you know sustain yourself so sustainability in Long Run for projects of the size and scale that we do uh is is is a a task by itself what's been like the single biggest business challenge or life challenge what's been the single biggest challenge for your heart and your head in the 35 years can you actually single out one um I don't think there's one I can relite maybe 100 so uh you know the challenges are always uh different and new and every time the challenges come it's it's something uh quite different so in the beginning somebody lets you down in terms of building materials uh sometimes uh you have a government which changes its mind on what permissions they gave uh you have activists who blackmail you politicians who want to you know bring you down the economy situation suddenly uh comes down uh financing becomes difficult uh there are not enough customers which really come into think so all this and more we have seen so it's not just one downturn that we have seen and U we've had we've had various people who have come against us and stuff like that and we have had cases which we have fought and we have spent crores of rupees fighting those cases which were absolutely untrue and it just does happen so I think there is a problem as far as the real estate industry is concerned and these problems are part of the industry happening in India so we have to really do it but a lot of changes have taken place also so there is a lot of improvement in terms of credibility that we have government regulation also has helped to remove a lot of people who are actually wrong uh from continuing in the line and stuff like that has happened but sometimes there is other problems which will keep on cropping up so I don't think there's any business in the world which does not have a problem the best business in the world have uh collapsed uh there's a company called Kodak which did photography and had Monopoly photography I think it was the fifth largest valued company on the New York Stock Exchange or some close to that and uh they refused to get into digital photography though they had a patent in it and uh the whole uh technology finished them so business are very Dynamic and you have to just cope up with changes that take place and if you don't have that uh thing with you to be able to fight that you shouldn't be in the world of business I want to go one layer deep here internally what have you done correct in 35 years to be able to bounce back from all these phases um and maybe another way of asking that question is if you have a bad phase tomorrow how will you react to it first and foremost there's no there is no road map to react reaction is automatic if you're bad to me if you're wrong to me I will feel hurt I will get the pain but then that is reaction then you got to start responding to it what do I have to do in order to meet the circumstances it may be economic it may be Financial it may be so many other things that are there uh then you start thinking as to what is the right way to respond react is is automatic somebody puts a pin on you you get H you react but over a period of time you understand how to take care of that that is response so we learn to respond to issues and problems that take place in life and uh many of them are economic some are personal your own family members can turn against you and this has happened in so many families and stuff uh there can be situations where people let you down and there are people who cheat you and uh there are institutions who may actually let you down after committing so there is no fixed way you just have to take your one step back work on it I usually talk to people so I talk to people who are better than me in that particular subject so if there's something on finance it go to a person like Deepak parik UD kotak or somebody of that kind who have much more experience on the financial side then who would be able to tell you how to do it but ultimately you have to do it yourself but yes I look forward to ideas mentors and people on that and I'm always one thing I'm is I'm a learner I always like to learn from anybody and everybody people younger to me smaller than me Brighter Than Me Not So Bright people but they have things to teach you and uh uh I promise you I've learned from so many people who are not considered bright but actually they have very good ideas and things and uh I I I I keep learning so cool that you're saying this after living the life that you've lived you know um that's what I kind of absorb from you whenever I interact with you like if my business career continues into my 60s and 70s I'd like to be like you uh which is why I've wanted to ask you this since the first time I spoke to you what's the' 60s and' 70s like in terms of business and I ask you this from the perspective of seeing a lot of people at least in my observation kind of give up on life in the 50s I don't know why okay let me tell you one story short one sure sure age 52 nanan hiranandani decides to give up business I want to do social activity yeah I want to do education I want to do health I want to do Skilling I want to look after old age homes ex things like that I give up and want to give that and hand over to my brother my niece my son who is still college that time but thought that he would do and my daughter and so on and so forth let's do a fast forward on that without telling any stories about it uh they move overseas they want to do different things they want they have their own way to do it I still have that aspiration to do my social aspect of it so 52 now I'm 74 the fast forward today what is the situation of nanan hirani he's doing real estate five times bigger than he was doing at age 52 I run now 14 colleges in Bombay run six schools I run a hospital I run a skill Development Center I'm looking forward to expanding all these activities we now do transplants in Bombay we do extensive cancer work that we do I want to eliminate diabetes in India and I've had the Good Fortune of being invited by Mr ratan Tata to join a trust for the purposes of eliminating Parkinson in the future so I'm running this business fully in fact bigger and I'm also now doing the not for-profit work which is taking my life so uh when you say retire uh I say retire I also retiring but the retiring is retire not retire effectively uh if you keep focusing on the profits all your not for-profit dreams will happen more easily no see the F no no no I mean no not at all okay uh the first part of your life is always money yeah because without that you can't live life you know you need your basic ingredients in terms of life living holiday one holiday a year uh all the other things basic a house and wife and two children so on so forth and getting them educated and you know creating their lives for them money is very important till then after that your purpose in life cannot be to make money it's like saying I want more air or I want more food or I want uh 40 cars or I want 16 phone mobile phones to be used is redundant and excessive only of money is not going to give you more happiness or greatness it may create even more problems for you but if you if you create purpose in life of what you want to do you can then then you're a different person completely my objective is that I want to make great buildings my objective is that people should have fantastic homes that when they live in my H place they happy when I met them when I meet them anywhere in the world they come up to me and say I'm enjoying living in your buildings and they come up to me and wanting to meet me and say hello to me and you know be part of it and at the same time all the social activities that I do they're doing so beautifully uh I met somebody who was uh singing in somebody's last week I went to a party in bandra there was a singer and uh afterwards I met him and he came and touched my feet what happened he says my mother has cancer she's in your hospital and she's being so well looked after thank you so much for making a great Hospital I tell you it it it felt so good no amount of money in the world can actually equate that but when you have no money money is the most important thing and I agree so we all at the beginning stages in life want to achieve that minimum amount but what people keep on saying is say be or double it's fine it's a byproduct of whatever you do but that loses it Focus because there are so many other things that become much more important I work on policy for the government of India I'm working on a policy by which we should eliminate slums in Mumbai for the within the next five years that's type of thinking to do working at the Prime Minister for the purposes of doing more affordable housing so all that and more becomes part of my life and when you have that kind of purpose in life then all the other things actually are not so important you think they are that money is only important it's not it it's like air tomorrow I remove the air in this room you'll be desperate for it so if you remove all the money that you have obviously you're going to be desperate for it but if you have that minimum or whatever is needed for good quality of life in terms of Clean Air which you don't get but once you get that you don't need more air similarly you don't need much more money okay so effectively your goal post is delivering the best product/ service for your customer and the other goal post is kind of creating an impact in society changing Society either you know from the health aspect or the housing aspect because that's your specialty one one more may I yeah yeah go for it 15 years ago I was invited to an architect's college and you know the MC introduces everybody and he says you know nand so and so so and so and all that so there was a young girl who introduced me in this Architects College he said I don't remember the exact word but I'll tell you the effect of it said Mr Nan hiranandani is different everybody creates history his story nanan hiranandani in pawai has created geography and I was looking at that girl and I suddenly realized that being a developer you get an opportunity to create geography and many times you know I I envy my father because as a doctor you treat and make people well you know and there's no compensation to what the doctor can do nobody can do I can never do it in my life uh so I I always looked up to doctors but that girl that day actually and I I still after 15 years remember and I said Thank God if I'm not been able to do that at least I've created geography for Mumbai and you still look up to it for that so I think in every field of activity if you really work towards excellence in that particular line and it doesn't matter whe it's political whether it's industrial or it's other thing and you do it for the greater good of society along with making your money you can make money it's okay but along with that you are actually contributing something to the greater good of society there is no equivalent for that I want to dial the clock back a little bit and ask you about your first salary what did you first get paid for and what was the amount 2,000 Rupees for month's work yeah in that Mill internship yeah okay yeah those 2,000 Rupees entered your wallet okay and when you look at your wallet that's 2,000 Rupees inside cut to age 73 how does your own money feel for you yeah good question very good question in terms of what's the human relationship with money goodness so uh I treat money as a very important resource because anything you neglect whether it's money or health or anything or productivity of your buildings or anything that that you neglect is a problem what is neglect neglect is you don't pay attention to it if you don't if you neglect your health no matter what else you may do uh it's a problem so you can't you can't neglect so your work whatever work you have taken work of making your building you have to fully make it so that it is terrific the building has to be good let me tell you another story short one one of my topnotch buildings in U Tani five bedroomroom apartment person paid a bomb for it I met him just after and he met me in a party and he said Mr hiranandani I'm very disappointed with you I said you bought that flat I said yes and sorry something wrong with the marble no something wrong with the plumbing no something wrong with anything else for there it's I think it has already air conditioning so I said something wrong with the air conditioning something no no product is very good building is very good lips are very good he says you know Mr hanandani what happened I said tell me so he said when I was getting delivery of my flat your engineer came took out the keys from his pocket and gave me the keys to enter into the flat and the keys were smelling when my assistant bought a maruti car and delivered an excellent maruti car the keys came in a box with some chocolates in it and we given to my staff member you should at least do that much when I'm paying clothes of him so what has really happened it's not about the product that I gave it's a fantastic product he loved it his family loved it they love me for it he loves me also but he wanted to tell me that look now mrani just up your anti when I check back it was time when all these things were not done it was done through the engineer because of the situation what it was there but he he was not tolerant of the fact that you did not give him that kind of service now you're making ordinary maruti car which is four lakhs and this is more than four crores and you're not able to give that service that's his expectations the developer doesn't think about it because he feels that it's not necessary so we all at stages in life learn to understand that in every field of life if you don't move up you're out because then you're not the best how do you become the best keep on improving learn learn from others learn from a maruti dealer how to be a better Builder so that is the story so we all as developers as any businessman or any service provider must learn how do we move up the value chain and then it can be done but what is your perception of your own wallet now it's a value uh it's a value which other people see I don't see it as big value and for me the value of me nanan hiranandani is how you perceive me to be rather than what my worth in my pocket is when I die people are not going to bother about how much money I died with or went with but they are going to worry about how I contributed to life or how I made you feel that's more important so I think uh my value in proposition is not in terms of money but what I did like this uh singer came and told me about that you made a beautiful hospital and thank God you're looking after my mother that's my value and that you can't value in terms of money the day you only look at it in terms of what value you are giving in terms of money you'll be forgotten very soon I want to ask you about the phase where you didn't know this in the beginning of Life I was seeking money there's no doubt about it let me not uh it the truth is that obviously at that stage in life when you really were in difficulty borrowing money on hundies at 2% interest per month and going through tough times and not really knowing construction learning by mistakes being cheated by taken for a ride and stuff like that we still taken for a ride but in different ways by different people but uh those days it was far more uh you know serious because you know I didn't have the money at all and there were no other possibilities of resource available today you have an idea you're a startup you just have an idea and you have enough money which is going to be available for you it wasn't the case in our in time so it was different and I think uh opportunities today in India are growing by Leaps and Bounds so it is fantastic so it's okay but let's forget what the bad days were there why worry about it those were yesterdays we look forward to today and tomorrow which are so beautiful but I'll tell you from where the question originates uh I know this I know that one has to Value the delivery of the product and the the quality of the service and I think that the internet knows this as well but it's a lesson that's yet to be emed on a very deep soul level by myself and by the listeners that if you deliver excellent work the world will respond with an excellent pay package is it age that finally teaches you this about not looking at money the way you're conditioned to look at money or is it you taught this lesson when you actually have the money no nobody learns sufficient enough not to make the next mistake so we keep on making mistakes every couple of years and we have not learned enough and there's always new fall backs Falls that take place which you have to learn let me give you an example two companies called Premier Automobiles and Hindustan Motors they made Fiat cars and they made ambassador cars technology came in mtra government promised Fiat cars that they would always have Fiat taxis for the rest of their thing so not to change technology and please continue to keep that similar something story happened in West Bengal with Ambassador so they were companies which did not embibe new technology and did not bring in new cars for the first next three years they made a lot of money because the governments were still insisting on that after some time the new technology come over and because the companies didn't do change it disappeared so there are going to be so many changes which are taking place in the world in terms of uh economic changes technology changes uh ideas that happened social media what we are doing just now didn't exist in my day and time 35 years ago there was only black and white TV and nothing beyond that and and D Daran you know where you saw a movie once a week on Sunday evenings where everybody was glued to the box so things will keep on rapidly changing over a period of time and like Premier automobiles like Ambassador like Kodak disappears uh you don't know what is the next attack which is going to take place look at the places like Ukraine having a war you know problems which happened in Kashmir so many places of Zone can anybody predict all these things no but the point is you have to learn from other people's experiences that is genius learn from your own fall Downs that is a sensible wise person that you have and other people who refuse to learn and if you refuse to learn to B and it's not an age you you can you can not learn at 20 and you can not learn at 70 don't become viser at 70 then you are at uh 20 it's not like that but your experience may be different so you learn from your falling down and getting up that you learn but it doesn't mean that older people are more intelligent than young people my son and daughter would be more intelligent in so many respects than I have but they may not have the same experience that I've had of falling down and getting up so this part of that experience is better with me and those type of ideas and thoughts of how you can do with new technologies are better with them so every age is fantastic and no regrets on that who your brosen life like who do you hang out with whom do I hang out with different people and I prefer to hang out with young people now because they they they're more smart and more clever and more fun the older people are becoming uh you know sitting back and sedated and saying and you know I can't tolerate those people at all so here's the thing I have a I don't think it's a theory I'm pretty sure this is the truth I think that if you don't keep your brain active after 60 or 70 or 80 it begins to degrade fair to say no every part of body for instance physical if you don't exercise yourself and if you don't do it your physical body deteresa brain and if you don't exercise your stuff the brain part of it also you will lose it it I mean don't use it lose it um this is what I felt even when I interacted with you on the flight I thought that you're so sharp and relaxed and experienced and good at business like I don't know if you do you watch cricket very little kind of like a couple Dave of business of course that's what I I felt about you that uh it was so much fun interacting with you uh what about the guys you grew up with or who you went to college with what's up with them not everyone could would have kept up with your speed so do do you still relate with them like like what do you guys talk about so let's say there's 120 people yeah there will be three people who are outstanding uh I would say in my classmate was harsh mariala Maro we were in the same class for four years in college we did that and there was uh wab bansali of inam uh outstanding and you have Metro shoes Malik and uh so there would be four five out of 120 who are super outstanding in any field of activity of whatever they are doing uh on the other hand uh uh there would be a lot of people at the mid level and a lot of people would have uh this thing and there may be brilliant people who have not come up in life because they didn't make an effort to do so and I promise you there were at least half a dozen people that I know who were far more intelligent than I was or far better positioned at the time when I started life then I or any of the others were and still they didn't uh they didn't do it not because of anything else he just didn't want to you know it's you have to desire to reach somewhere in order to reach somewhere if you don't desire it how how can you reach somewhere if your goal is not to come someplace or go somewhere or try and reach you may not succeed everybody I want to try climb Mount Everest I may not succeed everybody may not have the physical be withth all or age or whatever it is which may be a handicap but if you don't try how can you do it so many of these people don't try if you try you will succeed in India the opport is so huge to succeed you you're bound to succeed my theory on this is that I think childhood circumstances lead to adulthood decision making in terms of going for a bigger goal going for the next stage of growth it comes from some past experience of wanting to grow to that level and some people just have not had those childhood uh situations to make them want growth not necessarily I've seen two siblings things uh one going for it and one going for it and another sibling in the same family just too lazy to really do it so I don't think that's true uh I I I I sincerely do not believe in it I do believe that your exposure makes a difference so the opportunity for you is there for example we employ so many people we give opportunities to all of them to grow you think all of them grow no way 5% of them will be super growth n 70% will be ordinary and there'll be 5 10% who will just be at the bottom of the pyramid what's special about that 5% fire in the belly desire to grow and emulate wanting to they cannot not grow give me more work you want me to come on Saturdays we'll come on Sundays uh I want you to travel in order to this or this weekend they won't tell me that there was some function they wanted to attend they will still come so you see extraordinary people everywhere and not only in my business in my education institutions you will get one or two or three of them extraordinary efforts coming from ordinary backgrounds just going for it going for it and you and you know sometimes even I look at them I said how come he's doing so much much for it I'm not giving him so much accolades or anything or return and all that and but they're different so there are people and people and different I take the amitab bachan I went to a studio I'm talking about maybe 78 years ago it was 5:00 in the afternoon I just come from the airport and I was going there it was some environment day or something like that I don't remember exactly the detail I went there I went there half an hour before I was there he was on the stud Studio set since 9:00 and I joined him at 5 I think it was 5 to 5:30 when I was there and he was supposed to still do something Beyond me at between 5:30 and 6 he was kind he was stable he was perfect not a single mistake in his diction not a single mistake he had his courtesies he was sweet to me he was good with everybody at the end of the day at his age and time he was just fantastic now he doesn't have to do all that you know he didn't have to be super nice to me he was so good to everybody over there and there were people and people coming and going and coming and going and all that stuff and but he was different you can make out this man has something in him which is what has made him there I tried dissecting amitab bachan mentality with abishek ban on the show uh and I also went and saw a really old episode of coffee with Karan from season 1 which is like 2004 uh in both those situations that phase of him going bankrupt was brought up so after being a superstar in the 70s and early 80s then having a slump in his film career then going bankrupt and going to zero and then bouncing back up and now continuously working since then uh I think it was that slump that really fired him up for the next phase no Integrity the commitment to pay back that money and then do it also don't forget that anybody would have put up his hands but that man didn't he went went on the TV one of the first Superstars to go on TV serial shows in order to make the money what a man I mean you just have to see that is what makes the difference between when you say amitab bachan it's not just an acting role acting anybody can do thousands and tens of thousands of actors but that man is something different when you said coming down from down to up and all that stuff is he there is it's something different you know nobody can uh there will it will take a long time for somebody to come close to that type of man and character which is there what's the last amount of money you've lost in like one quick instance uh largest amount of money don't like to remember such things sorry about this I'm trying to get some life lessons here uh largest amount of money which was relevant to me at that point of time was a property which I purchased in Navi Mumbai from sitco we were working very hard to get a property in sitco and we kept on bidding for auction over there and I think about seven times we bid and we didn't get it and the prices kept on going up and up and up and up and finally out of desperation one day I said whatever is the next bid you please put 25 30% higher and just take it because I want to take a plot over there and it was an ego trip rather than a sensible decision and in those days and times I lost money I did a cash loss six other people also got bits of property and five out of us six surrendered those plots and somehow paid some whoever had got the money back from sitco I completed the buildings I made a huge loss and I realized that it was my blunder which I did and at that time for me that loss was huge but uh we completed the buildings and uh things there and still at cargar it's a very nice building so we did that and for me at that point of time that was you know huge loss uh there were other times and places larger uh amounts of loss but I think the larger amounts of loss is out of the total amount that I have it's not so significant but it is Big so yes I made bigger losses than that but at the time when I made that loss I really couldn't afford it it was very very significant that's part of life I'm embarrassed to kind of you know poke you a little more here but was it in like a 100 CR range I don't remember the exact figure but it was significant yes okay how do you cope with seeing that kind of a those kind of digits gone away it's not a question of those kind of digits that go away it's a question of uh you start rethinking are you working correctly have you now become too old to do the business uh you question yourself question your you know your your your road map uh you start thinking you know is this the way to really live life is this the thing to do am I fit for the business should I hand it over should I sell it off should I do something else and all that so all those thoughts are bound to come to you they are reactions which are normal which anybody should feel if you get into any uh blunder mistake problem that you particular face then there are other types of problems which are different which are like externally put on to you which has no fault of yours it's not your wrong decision or whatever it is and circumstances have created that situation for you wrongly those times the you know I'd never feel bad about it because uh this is something which is I feel you know external circumstances have happened an earthquake takes place or whatever it is I treat them like that and I I I I I don't give it significance what worries me is that my wrong decisions have actually caused a problem which I'm not able to sort out but if external situations are such where problems have taken place uh of course I feel hurt I'm unhappy I don't like it I have to face it I have to correct the situation but internally I don't feel bad about them because they thrust on me rightly or wrongly what do I do uh tomorrow I get cancer what do I do I can't I mean it's thrust on me but if I have neglected my health and because of that I've got a heart attack which I've not taken care of it's my absolute fault and I I I I I I look in and say nanan this is stupid of you not to have taken care of your body which you could have so distinguish in my mind very clearly from something thrust on me whether Godly environmentally or by somebody else or externally wrongly to be done by him and if somebody is done wrongly to you know I sincerely believe the theory of karma that that person will get it back one day and up till now now it has so I and I and I so firmly believe in it that I don't even bother about ret I mean you know reaction or hitting back at such people God takes care of it but on the other hand there are situations where you got to rectify and do it and environmentally takes place so let's say for example uh the lemon crisis in 2008 when the markets just collapsed and all it so a lot of projects had a lot of difficulties we Managed IT we worked hard we set things right financially and otherwise and we worked towards it and there were other things which were wrongly done on you which is fine move on tackle the situation get absolutely what is the alternative I mean people say you know I mean you fallen down what do you do you get up I mean God kills you in the process that's a separate issue but if you are not dead you better be alive so you know real estate is one of those Industries where even if people my age bring up the possibility of getting into real estate as a career you're often discouraged by other people around you who will tell you that no it's a murky industry it's a dirty industry uh there's a lot of tension in it all these things and then I meet someone like you who is so positive in life so it's counterintuitive for me uh is it actually as murky as they tell you it's worse it's worse any business that you are in you know the negatives of that business so there are people who are youngsters who are trying to get into the film line and talk to them they say it's a murky business you talk to people who get into the financial world and you say it's a mky business you talk to people who are in restaurants and they say that you know there's so much corruption for every permission that we need to run a restaurant or a beer bar so they know the real negatives of that that and if I have to look at the murky side of real estate I promise you I wouldn't tell anybody to get into it but you have to ultimately say that which line is not murky Fair politics is it not murky legal profession of bad lawyers or bad doctors or bad anybody mky but there are good also in each of the lines that you have including Builders so the point is very simple that uh I I refuse to say that everything is totally black in any line and you can turn black line white real estate is that we have done it in the last 35 40 years look at the change in the real estate as a business which has happened place as compared to what it was 30 years ago I do want to ask you for a one1 guide on getting into this business in terms of how do you actually make your first building that's one question I have for you but before you answer that question I'd love for you to tell us how one goes from being a millionaire in real estate to being a billionaire in real estate it's just focusing on the product you have to think of growth in different lines growth have different measures of growth so and Akay Kumar does four big movies in a year other actors can do only two how does he do four how do I grow from 5 acres to 50 acres of business the methodologies are different the fundings are different the design ideas are different and you grow it you may get funds from uh Capital markets you can get funds from investors they're private Equity players they are re players and other things which are available today which were not available a couple of years ago there are people who are willing to do uh development manager models so today we have for the real estate or people getting into the real estate U lots of people who are entering into joint ventures and others look at the societies all the societies are going for redevelopment they joint venture between the society and a developer so that's also a joint venture so there are small developers who are there today in the line there are big developers in the line there are huge developers in the line like we have loas doing the fantastic job KP Singh In dlf in Delhi doing a fantastic job so we have large uh players and small players also so opportunity in the real estate is fantastic and you can be a channel partner you can be a developer you can be a supplier you can be a contractor you can be a designer you can be an architect you can be RCC consultant you can be a MEP player you can supply marble you can do thousand things 260 Industries connected with real estate amount is enormous and the next couple of years the amount of explosion in real estate is unbelievable it's more than media so can you imagine media is growing so fast real estate is growing even faster so opportunity in real estate has grown exponentially in the next 5 years is going to grow compound of that a 15 20% growth compounding next 5 years again I'm trying to get to the core of what separated you so I've got compounding just in terms of time and experience I really feel that you stuck to this one industry one process for so long that as the years go by now you're seeing heavier and heavier growth every year uh I think it's these two things and when it comes to that time aspect I think you've taken care of your physical health and your mental health very well and I know you have a very supportive wife very and I think like I'm again I'm just trying to break down your mind sir if you if you don't mind that's what this process of this podcast is for me but would you add any other factor in terms of what helped you break out of the pack no I will first go to the other part which you said what else is important sure let me add that because you mentioned five or six things and I'd like to add one more thing what makes tata's difference after one 50 years Jewel was considered a line where a lot of people did unethical practice but when tatas entered into jewellry nobody ever doubts even quarter of 1% that there may be any milawat in it or any mixing in it when they make anything and come into the marketplace you trust them that survives Beyond all difficulties and downfalls so if there is one thing that survives anything and anything in the long run in the world of business is ethical values that you believe in and the trust belief that they have in you that makes you survive beyond your lifetime even if you're not there it will still survive you otherwise it will not survive so even if you make a good product but if you're unethical even if you got quality conscious but if is you're not ethical values if people don't trust you for what you're doing it doesn't matter whether you're buying a watch or you're buying a building or whatever you're doing the moment you get into the trust thing that is what survives 35 and 40 years and no matter what you may say that will always survive and it doesn't matter if I'm doing medicine in my hospitals or I'm doing education of 45,000 students in my colleges or 16,000 in my schools the parents will trust me for a good education or good hospital that will be there the ethical values will always be there that will always survive in any environment anywhere in the world even one's reputation compounds reputation somebody may try to destroy your reputation by picking up one fault of yours or one fault of minei one building some problem took place and they will try to mign your name but people the rest of the 50,000 people who have purchased from me will say we know hanandani for 40 years the newspaper May say something anybody will say anything else but those people will not say those who have belief in the Tata brand will always trust the brand that is why it survives for 150 years not because they're super intelligent or super smart or anything like that of course they are super smart in the business of business that I'm not that is a taken you have to be but over and above that that is what will always survive people to do it you're a good doctor you think the doctor is able to cure every patient no way everybody has to die so patients who come to a doctor also die and some operations are successful some are not but they believe in you my father was 82 and he was going to stop operative work a patient who had a cancer was told by Tata cancer hospital that we cannot you're inoperable came to my father my father said I'll operate you you may die on the table but if you survive you will survive for 10 years and one of the last operations my father did in Bob hospital was to do that cancer operation that he did and that patient survived there's no equivalent of all that so when there are values that you have given in Life or whatever it is it is beyond you it's not the product or the car that you give or the house that you give it's what you deliver in terms of values that survives and there is no equivalent of that anywhere you pick up a phone you're 100% sure that that phone will work why you have faith in that that is the difference between what other people will do in the business of business because it's only for the sake of money and the others who will do the business of business and they do want to make money I also want to make money in the business of business but that's not the only objective gotcha so compounding in terms of ability and Excellence uh longevity and I'd call this whole aspect Integrity long-term Integrity right these are the three pieces for long-term growth 100% And then tackling all the lows as well along the way that's a part of it we will not remember there person called God in our lives if you don't have Loa then you don't remember that there is a Almighty who has you know given you life do you do you think about God more as life moves forward well I'm a trustee of three temples so obviously I do think of God and in the ritualistic sense but I believe I'm a Karma Yogi rather than a the Dharma Yogi so I would spend some time in prayer but my time in prayer is short but my time in terms of doing Karma long what do you pray for goodness for the whole world for my family for the entire people and every person in this earth and also all the people that I touch and who I move and move around God bless them okay coming back to the original question which is for people roughly my age I don't think too many people in the early 20s or in their 20s in general think about getting into real estate but I see a lot of people in the early 30s thinking of this move of becoming a builder what's the first step learn the domain knowledge as much as possible whenever you get into anything you have to learn that line and it's better to go and work with somebody who is actually doing the business of business what will happen is that uh a domain knowledge is very important we now have an MBA in real estate for the first time we've started that in our school uh and uh We've started that which will help younger people also to get into professionally into real estate and uh having said that uh the secret is actually to get into the domain and learn from other people as to how they really doing it once you have learned the line and worked in it for year or two in whatever aspects of it that you learn that's the beginning where when you get into the line you're likely to make the least number of mistakes because once you know what the processes are which are being followed by successful people in the line of business that they have you will find it easier and easier when you do it to do the line and make less mistakes and this is not only for Real Estate it's for anything that you want to do like I wanted to do textiles what did I do I went to gon I went to Century Mills I interned over there for I think totally 6 months two two months for 3 years and uh I learned the line and I was able to set up the unit like this and in fact when the material was so good that the companies bought it processed it and put their stamp and actually sold the the material as theirs so but it was because IED I knew all those people I got the contacts I knew what it is I knew what Machinery I knew the suppliers I knew what other people were doing with gueron I came to know about it so I in a short period of time in less than a year's time we were able to set up powerloom Factory in gandhali so similarly if you're looking at real estate join a company learn the line and ropes of what is happening and once you've learned it two years 3 years or so and had the experience good and bad and understand the pitfalls and the positives of it go for it um when you say go for it the call to action here is first look for a piece of land somewhere fair to say understand the legalities around that piece of land the gamble involved here is will people actually purchase what I am building right then figure out how to uh build a great building that's livable or usable within the Realms of the law of the land anything else you'd like to say as a step two no I'll tell you a story sure sir I gave a lecture about 14 years ago in nmis owners something something program and I was speaking on a Sunday and I attended this lecture I forgot about the lecture 78 years later I went to a R Co conference in Puna and a young guy 35 or so came and touched my feet in my age lot of people do unfortunately but he came and touched me and he said you know I'm a builder in pun I said wonderful so he said you know it's because of you I became a builder so I said really so I said uh you're from Pune and you attended that lecture in Mumbai so he said no I'm from Mumbai I attended that lecture and that was the time when you said you know you should people can become developers and I tried to start it in Mumbai and I didn't have the resource to do so my cousin in in Pune uh had better resources than me and when I suggested that we'll work together he took me on I put in very little money he put in more money and we've started and now I'm on my second project so it's not about uh uh not having an opportunity it's about the desire that you want to get into that particular line once you want to do it it's it's it's all about how you actually get into it you do it again a small way so he started small he got into it he got a relative got somebody got a property and he moved it I did the same way I mean so it's not about something and I came from a medical family he came from a business family who were doing business in chemicals or something like that and then he established in Pune so it's not about real estate is just like any other business and uh it has its pitfalls it has its problems it has a difficulty but which business doesn't every business has its own uh you know things that you do it there is first of all get domain as much domain knowledge about real estate as it is possible and experience some of it on the ground around these two things if you do I think uh you should be able to do any real estate business can you begin a real estate career and by a real estate career mean as a builder without investing any of your own money of course there are lots of people who want people to work for them and uh there are lots of people who will say I have the money will you work for us the answer is yes but you have to also have some knowledge why would they trust you so I I if I had to have money and I would like to trust somebody I would like to pick up somebody who's at least worked for a couple of years in the real estate as a business and then say Okay support me and I would invest with him but I wouldn't trust somebody who's just coming out of school or college and say that I'm going to invest money with him it's more difficult obviously uh for startups is different where technology is concerned but this is an old line so this is a line which is running for so many years startups about using uh a technology to actually undertake a uh business or product which is going to be exponentially larger with a technology at the background so that is what makes a change so if you can bring some idea in the real estate business with technology then you can start as a startup in the techn for instance marketing there are lots of marketing companies which just Market through the social media and other thing they don't actually do it any other way that could be a startup uh there are people who are now giving ideas in terms of uh uh design and structures and other things like that you could have that type of thing suppliers of materials could be there in the real estate business uh Contracting can be a business on it I mean there are 200 items in the real estate business that one can do business about what's happening in the 20s in India in real estate like how are you updating yourself now but you said you that you keep learning and you're figuring about the future without revealing the exact details at least some nuggets if you can share because I know that for a fact there's a lot of real estate entrepreneurs watching this one I learn every day I learn from everybody I learned from Architects Town planners I learned from contractors I learned from Engineers I learn from when I travel I meet people I look at various uh organizations I've been I'm I was the founder of mchi I was a founder of Ki I was a founder of Narco I've been the president of Indian Merchant chamber president of Narco Delhi and president of Asam uh so in all these institutions you meet so many people and I always learned from people who are there younger older new technology new ideas new construction methods new marketing methods tools Etc in my hospital I'm constantly learning from the doctors from new ideas from Consultants from other people um from Mr ranata from other people who would guide me as to what we need to do always learning and uh stuff like that we run skill Development Center for the poorest of poor this year we've skilled 4,000 people who are the poorest of poor every field I learn and I learn every day the day I don't learn I feel illiterate so the point is if you're constantly learning every field of activity that you're going to do uh you better every field that's it there nothing is not so big I always when I lecture students I tell them I said can you improve yourself 1% on any particular subject in a day and I promise you all the students say we will improve ourselves 1% and I said can you do it every day said yes but only 1% so I'm better in Singing in dancing in Reading in writing in this 1% in a year how much percentage can you improve 3 65 10 years how much you can improve 10,000 times not 3,600 because it's a compound interest for them and that's what ordinary people become extraordinary by improving 1% every day you improve yourself only 1% every day anybody who thinks that the Olympians or our cricketers become better just because they've played some great match or they've learned some tricks or something like that not like that it's about everyday practice great singers talk to them they're doing rias for six hours every day before they do a song one month later they're singing every day I'm not talking about L meskas and the others but I'm talking about the other singers you can't uh this things and uh a chaiwala has become a prime minister what better example of improvement in our country an ordinary ordinary chaiwala is today we are proud to have the Prime Minister being there and look at him what you think he just became a prime minister in one day no way nobody can but if if you consistently and persistently improve you will become a prime minister of India Abdul Kalam poor poverty living family no money Spaceman Rocket Man of India Atomic became the president of India such a humble wonderful human being so we have thousands of examples of people who are ordinary becoming extraordinary with only one secret improve yourself 1% every day okay speaking about Improvement I want to have a go at something and I would love for you to correct me wherever you think that it's too much of an amateur opinion uh I keep having conversations with people my age and in their 30s about what a dream real estate investment for them is because I think there used to be a narrative of rent versus buy and for a very long time uh there was a narrative about how you should rent I can sense a lot of people going back to this buy narrative uh because of people like yourself uh you know podcasts you've done and it's not just you there um is a very large section of people from the world of real estate professionals who have come out and explained the logic behind actually buying real estate now if someone like me or someone around my age in their 30s in India is looking to purchase a house for me at least I would want to focus on self-improvement through my purchase so I would want a minute in the building ideally I would want a larger space than usual uh and I know that now there's too many mental health issues with people my age which don't seem to go away I would want that house to assist my mental health in some way so can there be an element of nature uh can there be nicer balconies uh can it be a quieter house than usual that's another angle and I think vastu shastra has come back in a huge way so vastu friendly houses that's a third angle that's where I think 2020 for Real Estate design is at but I'm 100% sure it's not down to just the design and the experience of the product there has to be more angles like economics uh and countless legal angles that I don't even know about but is this sort of a correct framework to start thinking about a real estate project in terms of figure out where the timeline is where humanity is what people's problems are and build for the next 20 years to address all those Pro problems because effectively you're selling like the product you're selling is a space for people to inhabit on a very Primal level you're designing the cave for the caveman yeah fine so two aspects sure the first aspect is should you buy or not yeah just let's focus on that for a moment in India you don't have pensions and social security for people who are aged okay so if you don't buy a house during the time when you're earning or living then when you grow old you don't have a house you may not be able to get a rented house for the kind of style that you have lived in all your life even if you have paid good rent you may not at that point of time be able to do it hence I suggest that you should buy it number two the lowest rate of interest available from any bank or financial institution is for buying a house and they give you 20 years loan which they don't give to Big industrialists but they give for home buying to Ordinary People so that's the second third income tax gives you a rebate for the interest for home buying and you get a automatic saving recruit whatever is there so I recommend to every Indian who can afford to buy and be able to save to make a saving to make his house ultimately place where he buys the house may not be the place he necessarily lives all his life because he may get a job abroad he may get a job in other places I'm living I'm buying a house in Hyderabad but I'm getting a job in Mumbai or Delhi or Bangalore or wherever or abroad but you make that house so that becomes your part of your Social Security which can be done and which you pay over it nothing else it becomes your biggest saving so the biggest saving then becomes a house and when you retire whenever it is you have that as saving and if nothing else and you don't need that house you can always sell it and give it and use it for your medical requirement or you want to make it for your children or for their marriages or whatever it is and all so this is the biggest saving that an Indian can do and hence I require I I always advise that people should buy and not uh rent they should as far as possible as quickly as possible to be able to do it not everybody can but whoever can must do it the second part of your question is the quality of the building that you made that depends on your capability of buying so a person may take a studio apartment which may be on the periphery of the cities or it can be a four bedroom in the center of the city or it can be Antilla if you're mesh Amani it doesn't matter because each one is a home and a house suitable for your type of thing and your aspirations and your capability of buying a big house but a home is a home it doesn't matter if it's a CA or it's a palace a palace can be lonely and a kouta can be happy I've seen koutas which are more happy than the Palaces in this country I'll repeat the koutas in this country with a joint family are far more happy than many of the Palaces which are wakened and empty so that doesn't matter so you just buy a place which becomes your home that's my recommendation but the quality that you talked about depends on IND individual ual requirements your innate capability of borrowing the capacity of the Housing Finance Company to be able to fund you because of your income levels and other things which are there they're very very liberal to lend money for housing uh which is not so in the case of other loans so if you want for a house and they see you have the innate capability to do it the banks and financial institutions go after you for the purposes of lending money to you so it's a it's good thing to buy okay um I've toyed with the idea of sort of getting into real estate because I enjoy again the design aspect of it terms of designing an actual living experience that's why I ask you that question about you being an artist that if for some reason I ever leave YouTube that's a business that fascinates me uh and I'm sure I'll be able to figure out the legal aspects of it uh you know I have a habit of asking good questions you do you do you do you do you get the best out of people yeah but my angle is H I truly wonder if creativity is a bit of an edge you can have as a builder if empathy is a bit of an edge you can have as a builder uh you know these are thoughts of M that's where this whole conjecture came from in terms of if I had to create a building where I'm selling the flats to people my age these are the factors I think about is it a correct thought framework at least yeah yes uh 100% every person who has an ideal to create an edge which is better than the other people is always good but you can't take the other things are taken for granted the quality of the building the type of amenities that you give that yes then you add on the flavor that you have talked about a beautiful design good looks good attractive things amenities which are beautiful those become what we call the add-ons the Frills which are there but the core of the building has to be solid and those people take for granted so uh five lakh six lakh maruti and uh one CR mercedesbenz uh the quality for both has to be both have to work so wherever you want to reach you should be able to reach in the maruti as well as in the BMW but if you adding the beauty of a BMW and giving that you will not only give a better quality but you will it'll be outstanding so that's the difference between the two but otherwise both are cars both are things that are going to reach you wherever you want to do but obviously the BMW which you are creating in terms of better design better quality better finishes will have its own value creation that you're going to do that's a very good aspiration to have okay but you need to take care of the basics first and foremost always the car must work it must start must reach must have petrol efficiency it must have this that and the other and everything it's it's absolutely essential I would love to pick your brain on this okay because this is a debate that is had all over India like I have some cricketer friends who are not from Mumbai and even they speak about this it's about the high rent in our city and the High real estate prices in our city in my eyes as a mumbiker I feel like when you're paying that kind of high rent you're actually investing in your own career because there's no other city that gives you the kind of career opportunities and quick career growth that you can see in this city when you average out all other factors I'm sure you know there are certain businesses which are more suited to being uh created in NCR or whatever but I truly feel that this is a career oriented City and that's why the high rent and high U real estate prices exist do you have a take on this so uh the Returns on residential real estate is not very high commercial real estate returns are much higher so when you're looking at a pure return for money uh commercial real estate gives you better return that's why you have international funds more investing into commercial real estate rather than residential real estate having said that the opportunities of Mumbai and cities like Mumbai are unique so uh yes the rents will always be higher and especially in important locations they will be still a little premium on on that but because of that also the property prices are higher so both are high the property PES are also higher and the rentals are also higher today of course there is a different move completely which have taken place in the good good old days uh individual buildings uh would attract a lot of people on rent today many of the youngsters want other facilities also which are available whether it's swimming pools whether it's other facilities Sports uh schools other things in the neighborhood which are able to possibly deal with it so those Trends are changing so similar like any the line the film line the trends are changing the TV line is changing the social media and interaction podcast systems are changing so this is also undergoing a change in terms of how the future is going to be so real estate is also changing rapidly over there so rentals are going to take place in cities like Mumbai or Delhi or Bangalore and other places where the rentals are high but then Supply is also coming up in a big way and new areas are going to up so in the next 5 years for example more areas across the harbor across atal in pil and others are going to grow much faster than even Mumbai City so maybe there the rentals will come down and lots of people will actually go there and live over there and commute because it's only 1 hour from there while even from versova to city is more than 1 hour while from panil to the city will be less than one hour so new areas are going to open up in the next 5 years where rentals will be lower while some people who can afford higher rentals will live here and those with who cannot afford that much High rentals will live there but they will be equally close in terms of travel time when you're seeing all this development go on like the coastal Road the Ring Road and all that's planned do you get very stimulated as a real estate entrepreneur like do new ideas pop up in your head well I created the master plan for Metro and uh Coastal Road and the connectivity and the new airport so I was part of the committee which uh you know created these ideas so uh I've been I've been part of the government Machinery in terms of putting this on paper but certainly the government of the day has implemented it with custo and that's why you're seeing that reality come into it you know in the next two years Mumbai will have 300 kilomet of operational Metro added on to the 190 kilm of suburban rail which exists today so it's fantastic plus you have the cros Harbor Bridge plus you will have the new airport in Navi Mumbai and uh I think all that is fantastic so it excites me tremendously okay what's a vision you have for Mumbai over the next 10 years or is that too far no no it's not too far next 10 years we should have zero slums in Mumbai every slum should be eliminated and it can be uh I think uh the Prime Minister has ideas of how to take this forward and there is no reason why it cannot be done there is money availability today for the purposes of eliminating slums there is a financial feasibility for the purposes of eliminating slums and it will happen so one you'll have no slums in Mumbai that's the target number two that we do believe that the quality of life of mumbers will improve exponentially in terms of it so for instance the coastal road on the western side uh is going to extend right up to versova and then to kandivali and so on and so forth on the Eastern side you will see the connectivity to at with elevated Roads connecting to pil and there further there also the new cities in that area of P pil msrdc is putting up a city uh Nina is there sitco is doing that work and you will see a huge development which is taking place in that then alibag will be the next location that is going to grow today we have just two five-star hotels in alibag uh my belief is in the next 10 years you'll see at least 30 fstar hotels in alibag it will be as beautiful I mean as attractive as Goa is today wow so in 10 years you will see 30 hotels at least in alibag which will come up as a destination and you'll get Resort townships in uh alibag and I plan to build one of them so uh but many will come up and already one others is there Mr Loa is also doing one uh so you're going to see a lot of development in this area in the next 10 years then next next 10 years will be the most exciting time for Mumbai curse and uh you'll never believe the quality of life change that is going to take place in the next 10 years so the youngsters like you should Delight in the fact of what is happening and I'm sure the government of the day will do even more for this purpose because today it's possible to do so uh earlier we didn't have the money and wherewithal to do so today money is in abundance there's no shortage of money available for development of Mumbai and uh it's easy to do earlier it was not possible other than Mumbai which other city do you have your eyes on when it comes to the emotion of excitement uh I love Dubai because my son stays there on the penthouse of 23 Marina and my daughter stays in London so I love both those cities because my grandchild children are there uh lots of beautiful places all over the world but I think uh my heart is always with people and the surroundings just look more beautiful because people are there so very all love beautiful places but after you've seen them once uh the place is not important the people with you are more important so for me Mumbai is beautiful because of Mumbai curse the kind of people that live in Mumbai the professionalism the ability to accept each and every one for the goodness that they have in them the professional quality that they have it doesn't matter what community you come from you're a Mumbai car who is excellent in films or medical or Builder or whatever it doesn't matter podcaster it doesn't matter who or what you are you respected and loved by people which other country in the world would you be respected and loved by people of any cast or religion Mumbai mumbay has that in them I think that's what you're paying for when you're paying the high rent yeah no no but any place which has that kind of excellence in the field of activity that is there the country is going by 7% GDP Mumbai is growing by 15% GDP growth and the next few years we'll grow by 20% because of all the infrastructure that is taking place in the Mumbai region I mean it's it's just not believable there is not a single mumbiker who who wants to work will go hungry at the end of the day he may not get the job that he wants no he will not mostly he won't but he will not go hungry if he is willing to work which other place in the country can you find a place like that nowhere do you have a reminisce about the time when you first bought that piece of land in paai or maybe another way of asking you this question is how does it just feel to buy such a big land parcel well to be to to make a long shorty short I made 11 buildings in locala complex every building that I made I was very happy with the type of building I made in those days I looked out of the building and I was very unhappy the roads were bad there were no lighting there was no storm water drain there was no water supply there was no good electricity connection nothing I sat down with all the developers in this area including Mr respected Mr siras loala and I made an association which built all the infrastructure of lanal complex at four rupees a foot we completed the roads the street lights the stor water drains the seage supply and other things that we completed together I realized at the end of the day I want to make a place where when I make a building and look outside the building I should look at my own buildings because I can't be sure that the gardens will be nice or the place will be nice so haai was actually a reaction that I wanted to create a place which would be everything that will be there will look beautiful and that was the whole as aspiration it was a big leap in the dark but you know finally nothing succeeds like success and fortunately I was successful are you stressed through that phase of course I mean when you want to take a leap in anything that you want to do in life is obviously there's going to be stress and all that stuff but there was an aspiration to create something so I think once you Aspire whether to climb Mount Everest or to build pawai or to do anything I think you as podcaster you took a leap with as far as that is concerned so anybody who wants to actually do something different great step out the same thing actually what do you think about before you purchase a land parcel at this stage of life I'm sure there are some data driven factors but there must be some emotions attached to that decision or no emotions at all I'm an emotional person so for me emotion is extremely important so the emotion when I bought uh Pai was huge that I wanted to create something that I felt good about I was brought up in near Hanging Gardens my birthplace in Malabar Hill and I brought my target was that everything that I make in paai should be better than Malabar Hill so the garden should be better than Hanging Gardens and kamanu park and I have made it I wanted the the school that I go to Campion school which I went to which is very good school my alma mat I wanted to make the hiranandani school better than camping school I wanted to make the buildings that I make better than the buildings are made in balabar hill and I did we w we in those days in 87 88 90 we won an international award for good design of buildings uh in Lake Castle in Pai the the the roads we made we made in concrete in those days nobody made private roads in concrete in those day we built the largest sewage recycling plant in India 30 years ago in Pai 4 million liters per day so everything that I wanted to make over there should be top quality top quality so it was emotive not just business business of course you have to make money because you're doing the business of business but there was something more than just making the money was there a point in developing pawai where things just exploded in terms of attracting new residents it's been a slow hard work hard work all the way hard work we made residential buildings then we made commercial buildings we made retail building when we sold the first commercial building we shifted the callgate and buyer from church gate and nariman point to Pai can you imagine German companies and Colgate uh shifting their head office from South Mumbai to pawai in those days 30 years ago 25 26 years ago I mean it was a task But Then followed and then we had 4 million square F feet of multinational people coming for commercial offices in Pai so I mean difficult of course uphill task but so is any business to build okay and your eyes on panil next well uh Pai is 250 acres panil is 500 Acres it's bigger and better of course it's going to be different and uh hopefully I have do 1% Improvement every day okay uh one last question for you today sir I want to ask you a little bit about this Tech angle in real estate today is there Tech involved in building that building and is there Tech involved in the consumer experience for the people people who actually purchase there is no activity where Tech is not involved so whether it is design of the buildings which my Architects use technology whether it's me RCC specialist to work on with technology in order to produce fast quick accurate and proper structures uh whether it is marketing and sales that we talked about whether it's social media through which we work on in terms of Technology uh whether it's my reporting on the financial side that use technology uh I think there is nothing that technology is not used so and over a period of years uh technology is going to be your uh backbone of any activity that you do so technology is a must I mean how can you how can you think of life without technology now it's there and it is bound to expand and explode exponentially in fact I think think the biggest scope of using technology is in building design and construction construction design for instance we need new technology 3D printing is uh we going to have printed buildings already started the it's not cost effective today but one day it will become and U I'm sure in Davi we are going to have new technology for constructing uh the rehab buildings which Mr adani is going to do I'm sure there'll be new technology used for the purpose of you just can't complete 50 story rehab buildings and wait for five five years to complete such buildings they'll have to use new technology so it's compulsory it's not something which is there I don't think there's an option to do it the airports that we do the coastal road that we are doing they all technology driven in terms of it do you watch a show called Black meow by any chance unfortunately I've not watched it but I'm sure it's come up in conversation yes it has um one of my favorite authors of all time you all know arari keeps talking about that show he says that some of the things that they've shown in that show are so realistic and are so close to the present of human beings that is almost like it's it's a horror show uh it kind of scares you because this is the reality we're living in today uh a bunch of episodes in Black Mirror depict very very futuristic housing where um there are glass interfaces there's robotics uh fueled by AI built into the house um do you study this aspect of the next phase of human living as a part of your studies for your business the answer is yes and no we always look at new ideas and things what we embibe we never copy we emulate we pick up ideas of it and then fit it into what we are doing so for instance when I put up my Hospital I went and saw hospitals in Norway I saw in Kolkata I saw in Bangkok I saw in Singapore I saw in Karachi the aakhan hospital I visited all the hospitals in Mumbai and then designed my hospital so you don't copy any hospital but you get ideas from each one of them and then embibe these ideas so when I see this movie I promise you I won't copy it but I promise you I'll pick up one idea which I will emulate and I will embibe into my building so I will never miss an opportunity to learn and pick up an idea so when you go to a mentor you don't copy the mentor you pick up thoughts and ideas from the mentor and then appropriately use it for your purpose the mentor is not there to tell you do this do this do this do this do this no no no no the mentor tells you the direction in which you do do and the the way that things should be done it's up to you to use the ideas of the mentor appropriately for the type of work which you're doing and then do it and every so I have multiple me mentors in different fields of activity and I look up to all of them and I pick up so many ideas from them and uh and I promise you it's never copying them I'm not a copycat but I pick up the ideas from them and do it so technology lots of ideas we pick up every day uh as you said about design we pick up something every day we find out things where construction quality we are doing we pick up ideas every day so every day that uh you know our team is trained to pick up these thoughts and ideas over there so many other builders in mombai pick up something I approach them and I say I I saw you're doing this this this work how are you doing it can I come and see it fortunately for me nobody refuses because of my age and probably senority they they willing to share their thoughts and ideas and I learn from them okay uh I'm just very inspired at this point so honestly like I've been holding back uh from saying these things to you through the course of the episode because I was trying to extract content but to see your energy levels and to see how you're perceiving life in 2024 uh despite the fact that you're in a so-called mky industry as people say like I really really deeply admire the human you are so and uh it's it was the honor of my life then to speak to you on that flight like I was very excited on the inside but I was trying to be calm in front of you and it's the honor of my life that I get to host you at home and podcast with you so thank you very deeply sir uh again Mamba mentality that's my pleasure to be with you thank you very much and uh I I I I hope the viewers will enjoy this episode because uh I've enjoyed speaking to you no thank you sir uh some of my biggest business mentors have been my Cindi Bros so so you can add me to a list you know the commonality in all my Cindi Brethren uh yes it's great business skills and very good with their finances but one level deeper it's actually empathy like this is what I've noticed about all my C Business Bros that very deep levels of look at look at the the look at the number of hospitals which CIS have put up in Mumbai look at the number of Colleges and Schools run by cind were're doing charity and all that and and surprisingly many of them were started when they came from Pakistan having very little means to do so so I think that part of the characteristic of giving has been a part of the cindes though they are more known for their uh business skills but I think have been generous too as far as the cities are concerned and wherever they are they have been contributing to the cities also as a community not as individuals necessarily what is it from that business perspective like how come you guys are so good at business actually uh I think people who have no homes to go through and uh cannot just go back home uh wherever they go they have to excel because they they have to make that their home they can't say they can't go back to a village or whatever it is for them whereever they settle whether in India or abroad that is their home because there's no country which is uh you know Cindi today in the sense of in Pakistan of course but when as Hindus we can't be in Pakistan but the point is that we have to succeed and believe that you know you do it and the giving back has always been a part of the culture even in syn so lot of the people who came here had the culture of giving but of course they lost all the money so they weren't able to do it but they have the Next Generation hear about the stories of what was the giving as a culture in their Community uh have continued to do so and uh I think it's a good thing for any Community to really give back to soci soety because they've been taken in by the society so I mean I'm really happy that the community actually does it forget me individually but as a community we have done a lot of things that have happened and I think that's a fantastic thing to happen how did it feel going back to Pakistan it was very strange actually and uh when I went to see the aakhan hospital and other things and all uh that was the first time I got a Visa because it was referred by the aakhan trust because I wanted to see the hospital over there and all that and I tried to go to my where my father was born in tata and all that but I couldn't find the house which he stayed of course they were very poor so it was very small house and I I think it was uh probably demolished and other things in no so I was quite lost actually in the whole thing and uh to be honest with you I I enjoyed going there at that moment but I promise you when I came back to India I was so much happier that you know this is my homeland you know I can't take and I was born in India so a postp partition so I I couldn't get the connect which I wanted but people were very nice to me when I went over there so that part of it was nice yeah lot of warmth when you interact with yes individually I I I was there very short time I was there for three days so In Too Short a time to really judge the country and people but whoever I met was very very kind and very generous and U you know very very good to be so thank you uh you are the poster boy for great Cindy businessman so I really really really appreciate your time so um it's been an honor having you on the show visualized you being on the show for a very very long time uh had a lot of fun and kind of got mentored through the course of these two hours so very grateful my pleasure to be with you r and and let me tell you I also enjoy being with you more than you have been with me because I've been watching your shows thank you thank you thank you that means a lot extremely validating thank you and I hope to learn from you a lot more in the future really really grateful so thank you so much Mutual thank that was the episode for today ladies and Gentlemen please tell me what you thought about it in the comment section below and also drop in guest recommendations for future episodes many many more epic business theme TRS episodes are coming your way but please do send in guest recommendations and keep supporting team DRS [Music]