[Music] welcome to the working genius podcast where we discuss anything and everything related to the six types of working genius and how it impacts your work and your life I'm patlin chony your host joined by a special crew today we got Bo Johnson how you doing Bo hey Pat excited to be here Julie Dobbins who knows a lot about working genius how you doing today Julie doing great that's good and Matlin chony you're going to be on mic with us today how you doing Matt good good all right very nice very nice I've got Karen in studio here and Tracy also keeping us on track and and some guests some visitors watching us today so Bo what is the topic today is going to be really fun today we're talking about jobs careers and hiring Q&A that's right we just did a podcast I mean a big webinar right we did an event for thousands of people a bunch of you got to watch it was so fun we dove into this topic that there's so many questions about that we love talking about about jobs careers and hiring and a lot of that content was related to working genius and we got so many questions we said let's do a podcast where we go through a bunch of those questions all related to this really really important topic and Pat folks have heard you talk about your love for this topic but tell us again like what what is it about this that feels in particular like aligned with who you are I think that I've always had a heart for people that were in jobs that they didn't like and I I could see the pain that it caused them in and their families and others and I just thought wow if there's a way that we could help people find dignity joy and fulfillment in their work we could change the world I I thought about that when I was a kid even which is kind of weird so now we get to actually address that and then when working genius came about I feel like I'm finally getting to live in one of the many areas of passion that I have in my life so fun and Julie was here she was really instrumental in making this event happen and for any of you who've been through certification Julie was so instrumental in certification growth and how polished and exceptional that experience is so Julie knows so much about working genius we're like get on Mike we want to hear your insights about this so let's dive into some questions shall we do that let's do it okay this is a really fun question Pat let's start with you how much time should we spend in our working genius right and this is one of those things obviously there's no specific right answer it's really hard to know but I thought about it like if if somebody forced me to come up with a number and and it made sense when I thought about it I think that if we can spend at least half our time in our jobs utilizing our Geniuses so let's call it 51% that's like if you can go to work and say hey more often than not I get to use my Geniuses that's pretty good and then but then the other question isn't just about genius it's about your working frustration the two things that deprive you of joy and energy and I think we should spend no more than 20% you know I think if you're thinking at one out of five hours in my job I have to do that I can do that but if it gets more than that that's pretty hard so I guess the the the minimum should be I spend 51% of my time in my genius I spend 19% of my time in my frustration which leaves an extra 28% in my competencies and I think that's a job that you could you could do and feel really good about now some of us we're not there yet but if we're moving in that direction that's great but I think if we're spending a quarter or a third of our time in our jobs and our frustrations it's probably something that's going to lead to to pain and burnout yeah I like that that kind of gut check every few weeks asking the team or asking yourself hey are you spending about half of your time at least in you're working genius and just do a a quick check in on that I I love that answer it's not quanti ative right we're not saying we should be tracking our hours and all that it's a gut thing yeah just kind of a personal audit on you know looking back at your week or your days and just doing that quick audit of you know where am I getting to spend my time and how am I feeling right that where is my energy where is my yeah fulfillment and Matt you talked about going into the teave you've talked about that you have when you have to do tenacity work which is one of your frustrations and so we all have to do that there's parts of our jobs but if Matt if you were going into the teac cave 35% of your time you might have to say is this really The Right Use of my time and am I really doing the most for the company that I could do right yeah what percentage of your time do you think you're spending in in tenacity Matt 15 maybe okay cool that's doable Julie what are your working frustrations my working frustrations are W and I wonder and invention okay my compet or competencies probably are not relevant my working Geniuses are discernment and tenacity so I get to spend a lot of time there which is wonderful right and we don't make you go sit in a room and come up with something new every day all by yourself you know thankfully no your your trash would be my treasure exactly yeah F okay let's let's keep moving here Julie love your insights on this question somebody sent in how do we get management to leverage our working Geniuses instead of just knowing them yeah I think you know as we have these conversations of trying to like Pat said lean more into our area of Genius as we work it's important to still understand you know what is the win for your team and what's the direction that your your organization is going and figure out how can you align what you can really contribute with your Geniuses towards that goal so that way you you're getting to contribute in an area that you enjoy and love that's also really beneficial for the team and so you know part of that is just understanding you know what's what's the dynamic what's the need and and how can you be a part of that and then also understanding your leader so being curious as you know you kind of figure out what are the areas of Genius or what are their frustrations and how can I whether it's complimenting those things or filling gaps with my areas of Genius come alongside and be a part of that so sometimes that is a vulnerable conversation that you'll have with with your team or with your leader to say hey this is what I really love to do but leaning into that's going to be important really good and you're talking it sounds like you're talking about the idea of managing up of saying okay I'm GNA take responsibility to help keep this in front of my leader you know what I might also do is print out your team map and bring it to a meeting that you're leading and say hey we're going to you have this conversation here's the elevation of the conversation or here's where we're at in the project and start showing the power of the tool and this model will help the people around you be able to take it and embrace it a little bit more Bo before we go on though I think that's the that's the beauty of this like if you're a manager listening to this you if you're influenc people at all in their work what a gift if if if in a in a purely kind and virtuous way going and helping somebody use their genius at work more is like a gift Beyond imagine you know they're going to love coming to work they're going to go home better they're going to treat their family better they're going to feel better about what they do but it's also self-interested that's the beauty of this even if you're just a pragmatist they are going to contribute so much more to the team and so you are going to do better now I hope we'll do it for the first reason but the beauty of this is even if that's not your inclination or if that's hard for you to do right now it is the best thing for what you're trying to accomplish and and so we definitely have to do that as leaders and that's where I love that you know we always talk about working genius as a productivity tool and so when we understand how we're all wild wir differently we understand how we can work together and be more productive and that's going to be a win for everybody you know what funny Bo you asked me about my motivation for this and and my my passion in life I actually think I am even more motivated by the individual benefits I think when I was a kid I felt bad for people that I knew I remember working in a restaurant and and and I loved the guys that washed the dishes and that worked in the kitchen and I thought oh my gosh these poor guys I get to go back to college after the Summer's over and they do this every single day I'm sure there's now some of them were happy but some of them clearly had felt like they had no choice I didn't know what was going on but now I want every person to figure this out so they can find the right job and it's not it doesn't have to be a sexy job in a high-rise in New York City making millions of dollars which doesn't sound all that interesting anyway but so many people get stuck in a job and they never actually ask themselves is this what God meant me to do and so anyway I think that's why I'm more even excited than that than I am about the productivity productivity is just a great bonus to this that's so good okay we got a bunch of questions related to how do I advocate for myself then some of that is internal which Julie just addressed a little bit some of that is external so I'm going to ask this question I think it'd be fun Matt to hear your response to this of how you would do this for yourself the question is I'm looking to make a career change and find a new job how do I Market my Geniuses when the world is so focused on experience so let me unpack that a little bit more if you're going and you're looking for a job Matt how would you talk about your Geniuses to a potential employer to be able to kind of advocate for yourself and help them see what you would contribute I would say that first of all you're trying to find a role that fits it so ideally the role that you're looking for is already fit for your Geniuses so basically you're just trying to match it and then always you're just focusing on the tasks which is kind of the answer to a lot of the questions that we talked about on the event and that probably we'll talk about today but just drilling down on like these are the things that I like to do these are the things that it looks like you're going to be asking of me I think I would love this role like this actually looks like something that would feed me and and something that I'd be good at and I mean in terms of selling yourself it's like you could talk about things that you've done in the past that you didn't enjoy and that weren't joyful for you and why you like things like the role that you're looking for so much more and obviously it's a bonus in this sense if you have industry experience and have done a similar position in the past or something like that but the answer I mean it simply put its focus on the tasks you know and here's the thing I want to say is it is not a needy or selfish thing to advocate for your working genius it is not and and and it's like the the contrapositive of what I said before it's it's like if a manager isn't interested in you as a person they should at least understand pragmatically well even if you don't feel comfortable advocating for yourself and saying hey I deserve to do what I meant to do which I believe is true advocate for what you can do for the organization and I mean and advocate for your manager and go to them and say I could help you bet more your team your your work your career would be better if I could contribute to that more so the it it should never be seen as selfish or needy to advocate for yourself but in this case even if it's hard just know you would actually be doing a favor to your department your team and your manager so advocate for your working genius it's a win-win a love it Julie anything that you would say as a DT if you're coming into a role how how would you describe what it is that you do to be able to come to a manager a potential future employer and say somebody with discernment and tenacity here's the value that I would bring to that team well I'm pretty literal I think sometimes ten nasty people we can be pretty pretty literal pretty straight to the point so you know really looking back at what are the things that I enjoyed and trying to find language to describe those I also don't have invention as a genius so coming up with new language is hard for me so if you're in that position go back to the report or we have a a tool called reviewing your results it's got language around you know what does it look like to contribute with Wonder on a team so it kind of gives language and and something a little bit more tangible to what does that actually how does that play out what does that task look like and so we've got those for each of the Geniuses so that's actually something I would do just that's a great idea go to those I love that awareness Julie about your lack of invention and then a really easy strategy people were asking how do I fit this into a resume how do I add working genius there go borrow some of the language that Pat has written about each genius and put it in there if here's something that I do to contribute to the team exactly you know one one of the things that occurs to me as we're talking here is that having a a structure for this having the six Geniuses allows a person to talk about what they're not good at without feeling like they have a a character flaw yeah and and I whenever there's a good tool for something like this to be able to say oh there's a description of this rather than me saying I'm weak or I'm flawed we get to say no I just don't have that and and it gives the courage to kind of celebrate who we are authentically you know yeah and so it goes away from saying I'm lazy to saying I I I struggle to finish and I work on that but I'm I'm that's never going to be my strength and so if that is the thing you need most then it's probably not a good fit Okay so we've done a few questions around being a job Seeker or looking for your next job let's have let's do some questions about interviewing and hiring and I thought this was a really interesting question Pat I'd love to hear your thought about it it's about hourly work and this person Saidi hire mostly hourly jobs $10 an hour jobs and most people need work I have a hard time applying these principles to people who work hourly to those hirs can you help me I think it and it's funny because when you first say that I think oh yeah maybe it doesn't apply to that but it totally does I mean if I have six kids working in a in a in a Chick-fil-A or a In-N-Out burger or a fast food place they're gonna go about those jobs differently and even even a job that's fairly well defined there's GNA be one kid at the window who loves interacting with a customer D in the Drive-Thru and and making them and engaging with them and encouraging and and all that stuff there's going to be some other kid who's taking orders out there who loves just getting it done and quick and processing it and knowing that they're going to show up even doing the same jobs a little differently is going to allow you one to affirm them in what they're great at two to coach them without guilt around what they're not great at which might need to be done and even then uh put them in the right position that's going to make that six hour shift making $15 an hour which is probably what minimum wage is out here now I don't know but different places it's different but even then that that job is going to be that much more fulfilling and you know we say every job is a six-letter job so there's not one type of work or one area of genius that's better than others and so the clarity of just knowing hey we have mostly ET roles or gt roles right we need galvanizers and and people who love tenacity even it's a that's a great thing for you to understand as as a hiring manager or as you're looking for people because you can be more clear and more direct about the type of job that it is and then who you can bring into that role yeah and I was thinking too even if you can't actually make a positional change like even if as an employee or a manager we get a lot of of comments that are like well I have this job and I can't switch it right now and it's it is what it is and that's I I can't make any changes or managers saying well I can't move these people around even without being able to like fundamentally change a position or move someone into their genius knowing the language and being able to lean on others and being able to be aware of what genius you're working in at any given time and so you can be intentional about like how you spend your energy and where you're at and how you work with others even if you can't make any changes to your actual position or a manager can't move people and Shuffle people around it still makes a big difference on fulfillment in a job yeah and just the self-awareness alone agre gives you because remember it's about reducing guilt and judgment and E like if I'm in a summer job and I'm struggling at part of it and I know it's like yeah I got to do this for three months I need a summer job like I was a bank teller there was so much about being a bank teller that I was going to be miserable about but at least having an explanation for it would probably take the guilt away and allow me to get a slightly better at it without feeling like I'm such a loser I can't do this very well so y definitely you know there's a guy in our town named Chris who runs a coffee shop and his the reason he runs a coffee shop is he says I want to be the person that gives somebody their first job and I want to have their first job be a great job and I think awesome this might sound sort of pie in the sky but I just love the idea of people who are employing hourly work in particular young people teenagers to say man what if you could give them the insight about where they will get joy and fulfillment in their work for the next several decades so you might if you have hourly employees man what a great gift to be able to give them to help them know more about who they are and not have to wait years to discover that they could discover that right now that's okay another fun question Pat what's the first question that you should ask a job candidate in an interview yeah I think that's what they mean is when you're interviewing somebody what's the first question you should ask them I'd probably start with like what's your name I probably want to make sure I had the name I think you mean a little more Nuance than that well you know what would I say I'm I don't know that I would go do this right out of the gate but I want to know if they know themselves so and I actually do like to know like tell me what you don't like tell me what you're what you're okay with not being good at and so the the the the question what's your weakness which I know we talked about on our on our webinar about that people say oh I work too hard and I care too much and all that stuff the most important question I have is I really want to know that you understand yourself and tell me something about yourself that's a weakness that you wish you didn't have but you recognize is true so I'm always looking for authenticity but is that the first question I would ask I I probably want to give them the opportunity to frame it so I probably just said I want to know who you are and I want I don't want to be too like give them yes or no answers I want to figure out whether they understand themselves yeah the the mo the most important question is different than the first question and Le and leading with that isn't always going to lead to a great conversation but when you allow somebody the opportunity to be vulnerable and humble you really learn something about them yeah I agree I agree I love the talking about interviewing if if somebody I've been places before like at a coffee shop or a restaurant when I can tell somebody's being interviewed you know I'll I'll I like to listen and and I want to think and I always want to go over and go oh talk about this or ask him this or coach him through it you know do you feel similar when you're watching somebody who's obviously on a first date because I think that's delightful to get to see you're like I bet that this is their first date oh I always feel so I'm so nervous for them it makes me feel really I'm like oh gosh hope that goes well oh yeah and definitely feeling like I'm glad I don't have to do that anymore I always look at the guy and I think oh he has terrible gas because you know when you go on a date and you're all nervous and you drop the girl off and then you you know let it all go also I'm kind of pulling an audible do you guys have a couple best practices and we talked yesterday about interviewing about how so many no my best practices we interviewing you can we could do a podcast on best practice is for First Dates another time but you know we talked yesterday about how so many people are still doing just the same interviews they've always done and to even think outside the box or do it a different way you know what are some of those things whether it's using working genius or best best questions that you do well I think there's two ways to answer that Julie which is interesting one is like understanding the working Genius of the person and the job and their working frustrations and matching them up that way but the other question is is it authentic and so I think what we often say is interview people in non-traditional ways because unfortunately people have learned to practice doing traditional interviews so they know how to go in and say things and answer questions about their resume so get them out of the office or get them in a different setting or get more people around them and do things that are going to put them in a position to act authentically I like to take them for take them shopping or something like that I've been I've not been as good about that lately but I think that getting them out of the office into an authentic environment and see how they're going to deal with something is pretty good I love the story about the CEO of the the company that would take people to breakfast and then he'd get there early and he'd actually ask the server to bring them the wrong order because he wanted to see like do they say anything are they kind but do they speak up and how they do it and so I think that any way you can see the true person is good uh I love that Insight you know the other thing that I've been thinking about in interviewing is knowing your own as the interviewer your own Geniuses matter so much so example for me I'm inventor galvanizer which means I'm double disruptive and it means I'm I really am prone to galvanizing somebody into a job that they're actually interviewing for like it doesn't take much at all for me to be puty be wooing them into the role instead of discerning if this is the right thing for them does that make sense and I think that any genius pairing would have good if you know yourself and you know what you're most likely to be able to how you're like how you're likely to show up yeah as a DT you know as an interviewer I am most likely to really move towards is this the best person and get into tactics of asking the questions describing the role as opposed to sometimes casting Vision making sure we've covered the big picture or even given an opportunity to wonder about things because I don't gravitate towards that in a conversation Karen just wrote me a note that I think is interesting she says is it important for an interview to have to have discernment and and I think that that can be helpful definitely definitely can be helpful but what's most important is you know what you're looking for and that you're authentically getting information and there needs to be some D in that process because it can't be like I asked four questions they use the word we instead of I that means they're a team player it's never it's more of an art than a science and maybe a d might be more comfortable with that art but I'll take clear expectations and knowing what you're looking for regardless of what your working genius is if you're interviewing people it's more important that you know what you're looking for and you find a way to get people to be authentic and so more than your working genius I think that's the case fun hey this has been a great conversation we got through a lot of questions we could probably do another hour like this but I'm looking at one of the comments we got and there was a question submitted that said is there a break for lunch and so I think we should probably break for lunch and let everyone else do the same yeah thanks so much for doing this event Pat it was a blast having this conversation we're going to do future at the Whiteboard events that folks can look forward to it's been fun having you guys on the podcast today and we want to just thank all of our listeners who are so interested in working genius and we love talking to you interacting with you hearing from you and putting things out that can be helpful so thanks everybody and we'll talk to you next time on the working genius podcast God bless