Interview with Former Satanic Church Co-Founder

Um, that and that I've seen. Brian, you're kind of blowing my mind right now. I had so many interdicts and I mean, I should have brought them with. I've got them in a file. Um, 32, um, cease and desist interdicts. I couldn't talk about this stuff. I think let's just jump straight into it, eh? There has been so much going on in your life, I think, since the last time we spoke. We have had two previous podcasts. This is the third, which I think means that you're probably the most reoccurring guest ever on this show. Okay. I think so. I don't think anyone else has been on three times. Yeah. And yeah, man, I just want to know what have you been up to since the last time we spoke? Just briefly. We'll get into it just now. Sure. No problem. So what I'm involved with and what I've been doing for the last year is I'm very much actively helping people to get out of the occult and out of Satanism. So there's obviously similarities when I say occult and Satanism. But. And a lot of people would refer to it as deliverance ministry. So I have been partnering with various deliverance ministries in order to help people with that. And I had to work very much behind the scenes for a while until very recently. So, yes. There were some legal issues. There were some legal issues. There was. Between, because you are. one of the co-founders. I was. Well, you are one of the co-founders, whether you've left or you were one of the co-founders of the Satanic Church. Yes. And obviously in the last episode, you talked about how you had an encounter with Jesus and you turned to Christianity. Correct. Right. And since you've left the Satanic Church, there's been some legal issues that even during our last episodes. kind of hold you back from saying certain things. Correct. I have no idea what those things are. We haven't really spoken much about it. All I know is that you couldn't say things last time. So I'm very curious to see what you have to say. I'll spend some time just explaining that maybe. So I think that could be important. So when I left, when I officially resigned from the South African Satanic Church in 2022, I think people know about the month. that I had to wait and keep that quiet for them to prepare certain statements and things and put certain things in place. Because I think they were more aware than me of the ripple that that would create if I go public with that information. And then during that month where we were trying to keep things under wrap, I had some media people contacting me because there were rumors going around. And that's why I made that very first initial video, the one that went. wide that I basically shot to myself. And the reason why I did that was I was not going to do all these little interviews. I thought, let me put one video out that people know, yes, it's true, I left. And these are the reasons why I left. So I don't think I had any idea on the impact that that would have both for the public and both for Christians and Satanists and all sorts of people. So what happened after that? We had our last interview just shortly after that, I remember. And then what started happening from about, I would say, July 2022 was the first official lawyer's letter I got for a period up to now, February of this year. So in total, about 30 documents, interjects, cease and desist, lawyer's letters from various parties that... that was still involved with the sort of African satanic church. And because I signed a NDA, a non-disclosure agreement, on the day I actually resigned, this was the document that they constantly used as, you can't say this, you can't talk about that, you can't. Why would you sign that if you were leaving? For them to let me go. Okay. Yeah. And I think the main, if you want to call it, idea behind that was... for me not to be able to talk about specific people to protect people's identities, because I think some people know, some people don't know, there's quite high, if you want to call it high, sorry, no, let's use the words influential people that's involved in Satanism, especially in this country, and certainly around the world. But a lot of the members consisted of CEOs of big companies. people in the media industry, people in music, etc. That was the main reason also. And then I released a few videos by myself. So this resulted in them obviously sending me these documents and I had to start taking videos down. Some of the original videos I made as well. And the person who funded the legal team sadly committed to s**t early this year because of other matters. And... you might have to edit. part of this out so there's things with child um and fraud of very big financial companies so um that he's indicated in you know implicated in and so sadly he commit he committed was this the guy that killed himself in amman yes uh what was his name i'm just we're gonna say it well everyone knows it's he had that uh okay so i forgot his name and i just want to also make it clear that what I'm doing at the moment and moving forward is I'm not exposing specific people and their families, etc. That's not what we're doing here. But so that situation is extremely sad. But this resulted in the people who were still very actively pushing the sort of Afghanistanic church not being able to continue the legal process of not deregistering it as an organization. So Together with a legal team that I've been working with for like about eight months, we finally got it to a point where it's now being deregistered for the point that this NDA that I signed can no longer be in place, right? So now, because that is not in void, we can talk and we are here and I'm making content again. And I also just want to stress something is that this does not mean that the satanism doesn't now exist anymore. I mean, satanism has existed before the South African Satanic Church and it will carry on existing. So that's not what this is about. So I'm not making a statement or an announcement that don't worry, there's no more satanists. So wait, I'm a bit lost here. Okay. So you're saying that the Satanic Church doesn't exist in South Africa anymore? Yes, as an organization. Because a while ago when I contacted you, right? I messaged you maybe a year ago, a few months ago, saying I'd like you to come back on the podcast. And one of the reasons was because online, I was looking up the South African Satanic Church and I couldn't see it anywhere. I was looking on Facebook. I was looking for their website and I couldn't find anything. So it's non-existent anymore. Correct. Is it non-existent? As an organization. But they're still practicing. Of course. So I know for certain that... There's a self-styled group in Milnerton that they also have a premises. They have registered a business with it. They don't call it anything that you can, if you read the name, it will say Satanism. But everybody that goes there, everybody that runs it, they were members of the South African Satanic Church, and they are now carrying on with the rituals and stuff like that. And then obviously you have private groups and you have smaller groups of people. And you have people that also gather in groups up to 50 and 60 that are still doing the rituals and doing those things around the country. That's very much still happening. But in terms of a religious organization and in terms of an on-paper organization, no, it's been deregistered. And are you happy about that? Yes, extremely. It's quite insane because, I mean, so I'm trying to process everything. There was a lot of information there. No, by all means. But, um. When I first met you, right, you were one of the leaders of the satanic church. And I mean, you were so engulfed in it. It was your whole life. It was your whole persona. It was your whole personality. And then the second podcast we did, it was a complete switch up, right? And now you are kind of going against them. So no. I am, this is the other thing. So we have freedom of religion in this country, right? Which is a good thing because that allows me to say I'm a Christian, right? And this is what I believe in and that. And this allows other people to choose their religions as well. And it allows people, if they want to be Satanist, they can be Satanist. So my problem is not freedom of religion, okay? My problem and my concern is that people are led into things in a deceitful way. So if you are a Satanist, or if you are a satanic organization, but you're not transparent on what people are getting involved in when they join, that is my problem. And that I have seen and sadly, I was part of that. Do you understand? So the work I'm doing at the moment, and what I'm focusing in is to expose basically what the real um agenda is behind satanism etc so i'm not saying um people are not allowed to be satanist i'm not saying people are not allowed to be muslim people are because people are allowed certainly we have free will my issue is the transparency my issue is that the deceit my issue is the way in which the satanic agenda has been pushed at the moment and it's not done in an open way so let's say for instance people would um or satanists for that matter would be open and say If you join Satanism, you are eventually going to be required to do certain rituals. You are eventually going to be required to betray some people. You are eventually going to be required to do certain things for Satanism. But it's never said initially. Do you understand? And what are some of those things? How long do we have? Just, I mean, go for it. Okay. So what we also need to keep in mind here is that a lot of... And I was certainly one of these people. So a lot of people, when they get involved in Satanism, many of them actually don't believe that the devil exists. Many of those people actually say, we don't acknowledge Satan as a being, we don't acknowledge that the devil exists, etc., etc. So as you get deeper and deeper into Satanism and as you climb the hierarchy with certain things, which is how Satanism is structured, and you start doing certain rituals, the... demonic sphere and the devil becomes more and more real and that will start showing up. And there is absolutely no debate once you're in that deep that whether the devil actually exists or not. It's just the way that deceit works and part of how that plan is structured that it's based on deceit. And a lot of people, once they're in there, they actually feel they can't get out. I mean, even me at the time I was getting out, I got death threats. many death threats, pictures that were taken of me during rituals were suddenly everywhere. A lot of things. So a lot of things that you think, this is a safe environment, and these people are my friends, and I can trust them, gets used against you. And certainly I know, because I also did that to other people, you understand. So the moment you hear a rumor of Jack and Sally wants to maybe potentially leave a coven or a chapter or a grotto, or the satanic church, then we start using certain things to keep that discretion, for them not to expose other people, etc. So that, I feel, is very important to also explain. But there is certain rituals that you have to do as a Satanist, whether you like it or not. And I remember at the initial interviews that we had with potential members, we don't mention this to them. We say to them, look... There's a lot of social things involved here. There's access to drugs and to sex and all those things as much as you want. And that's the, if you want to call it the nice, fun aspect of it. But there is certain rituals you're going to have to do that would empower everybody as a group and things that you're going to have to engage with. And that was transparent to a degree, but we never gave people details and said, okay, so you're going to have to sacrifice animals, for instance. So last time you denied that as well, I think. That not. Probably the first interview I did. Because, see, that was part of it as well. My job description was to be on social media, be a spokesperson for Satanism, and say that these are the things that will never happen in Satanism. That is satanic panic, etc., etc. And certainly that happens. So did you have to sacrifice animals? Yes. And what kind of animals are we talking about here? So, again, there's different types of rituals for different people. So initially we're looking at things like... cats, we're looking at things like chickens, goats, that type of thing. That's shocking to me. I mean, I knew stuff like that happened, but... It does. I did believe you when you said, because maybe I'm a bit naive sometimes, but I do believe, I tend to have a very believing nature, you know, I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, and it's nice to see that you're kind of opening up about that now, right? It's important, Josh, because... Um, I, and this is the thing, I've been wanting to talk about this stuff for so long. And for a two year period, I started going to churches and people who supposedly are involved in deliverance and stuff and work with this stuff and say, do you want this information? Do you want photographs? Do you want? And I was willing to give people photographs where I'm incriminated, etc. And a lot of them were just simply not interested. And then as time went on. I was very clearly shown that this is what I'm going to have to do. If I want this information out there, I'm going to have to take that on. And at the same time, I was ridiculed by the Christian community as well. People extremely like judging me and claiming I saw the false Jesus or knew as Jesus or whatever. I see a lot of that stuff. It is complete blasphemy. And I also see people attacking you because you're gay. Yeah. So, I mean, we can go very much into those things. And, and. all the answers I had to get on those things. But at the end of the day, you know, that is blasphemy. It is blaspheming against the Holy Spirit. And if they are Christian, they will know what that means. But it's not for me to actually be angry at those people. Do you understand? So I have many times received scripture from God. And when I have certain times where I go through extremely difficult times because of those things. I'm constantly shown that this is what it is. It's not about you. It's about them. So you accept it. And it's been quite an intense journey, leaving the South African satanic church, leaving satanism as well, going through nine months of deliverance and now being on this side of the table. I want to go back a little bit, right? So just briefly, I want to know how you became one of the leaders of the satanic church up until now. So one day... I was running a shop in Oakdale in Belleville. This man walked in, the same man we talked about earlier, and he said to me that he wants to found the first satanic legitimate. Can you say his name? Everyone's going to know who he is. And he's passed away. Yeah, but he's family. Okay. Yeah, so, I mean, that's the part. People will put it together, though, obviously. Yeah, so, because I actually know. one of his siblings very well okay it's a really nice person he's a very successful businessman that got caught up in a massive scandal recently yes um and he there was like a massive lawsuit against him and he was going to be sued i've just forgot his name but he was going to be sued for like half a billion rand or something and and there's other things as well he ended up taking his life because of those allegations and he was obviously guilty yeah yeah okay so so he came in and wanted to found The first satanic church. And then I said, okay, well, this is interesting. And he said, well, the reason he came to me is his wife. You might have to cut a lot of this stuff out. But anyway, so his wife came to me for a reading about a month before then. And she told him about me and what I saw in it and the information and stuff. So he was very interested in it, obviously. And he came to me and he found out via another contact that I'm actually a satanist already because they saw me at some of the... gatherings that were at people's houses. So he came and saw me and then he said he wants to do this. I was called to a meeting in town. I went there, there were four other people and they said legitimately, this is what they want to do. But they're looking for a spokesperson. And they're looking for someone with occult background that has experience, as well as knows the Christian Bible very well. So I fitted all that, basically the categories. You fitted the mold, yeah. Yes. So, and they asked me, what would you like to do that? And I said, well, this is the amount of money I'm making at the moment by myself. I would like to make double that. And it was immediately a thing of, cool, then that will be your salary. And within two months, we signed contracts and we set it up. We put it through the Department of Social Development. It went through the rest of history, went public. So it was very clever in the sense that they never had. to be the faces. Yeah. But they very much wanted a legitimized organization and for Satanism to become acceptable and for Satanism to be a recognized religion in the country. So that was the main thing for them. Why? Because of, if we look at, again, the satanic agenda, which we can go into if you want, because it's both international and locally. Yeah. It has a lot to do with money. It has a lot to do with power. It has a lot to do with the real information, and that's very little, that is out there about Satanism. To counter that and to say, but it's illegal to say this and this and this about Satanism because we are Satanists and we are a registered organization. And that's slander and you can't say that. And this is actually what we do. So that was the main, it's PR. Can you just tell me his name? I'll bleep it, I promise. Okay, sorry, it's driving me crazy. I'll bleep that, I promise. And you'll have to bleep that out as well. Yeah. Okay, because people will know. Okay. Okay. So he approaches you to start this church, the Satanic church, and then they fund it, you start it, and then… Yeah, so he bought a building in Century City, which used to be a very nice car sales showroom, double story, and it was blocked out, very much like this type of curtains. So it could have enough people inside. This was just before COVID hit. So… Then COVID hit and then we couldn't actually start doing the gatherings. So we went online then with services and rituals for private groups and people were obviously still doing their thing. And I mean, from all the Satanists in South Africa, because there was certainly way more than the ones who were actually members, we got about... in a two-year period, 12,000 people to register. I remember you saying that before. As Satanists, yes. And how many Satanists in total do you think there are in South Africa? Or is that impossible to know? It's not easy to say because, I mean, a lot of Satanists were also against the sort of African Satanic church as well, to say, you can't do this this publicly. We're going to get exposed. This is not what Satanism is supposed to look like. You're supposed to be in the shadows and et cetera, et cetera. So it's very difficult. I would actually say about 50,000. Yeah. That's really kind of my gauge. And, I mean, the beautiful thing is, or the wonderful thing is, many people have left Satanism because of my testimony that time. And I'm not saying the majority. I'm just saying many people who have been in contact with me. Because, again, a lot of people who are inert. Or inert because of you. No. Well, some, I would suppose. But. a lot of people who were deep into it when you are that deep into it you really believe that i can't get out of this ever so when people saw that there is a person who can actually get out do you see because it's it's part of the deception um it's part of demonic deception it's part of the enemy's deception is that you can never get out of things you are bound there's no way out Do people feel like they can't get out because of the belief or because there's actually a physical real-life threat from other Satanists? Both. And I mean, once you do certain rituals and actual demons appear, that's what you're going to believe, right? And once you get tortured yourself by demonic entities is what happens with a lot of people when they do these rituals. And when they don't want to keep on doing rituals with blood to appease these demons... you get tortured. That is the reality. And I know this sounds like a like a movie, but this is literally the stuff I've seen. What's up, everyone? I hope you're all doing well. I have got a little announcement to make. So over the past few months, I've struggled quite a lot with YouTube, demonetizing some of my biggest videos. And this has just made it really hard to make a sustainable living on YouTube. I've set up a YouTube memberships program. And this will allow you guys to support the show. and get extra content at the same time. And how it works is there's three different tiers. For now, each tier offers the same perks, but I just thought I'd add in the two higher tiers for people that are able to support the show more and that want to support the show more. But feel free to just go for the lowest tier, you'll get the same perks. And those perks are extra videos and extra discussions that won't be going on the main channel. It will just be for members. And like, for example, the first video I uploaded is a Q&A a few weeks ago. I mentioned that people were asking me to do a Q&A. So I've made a post, people sent in questions, and I've answered all of those questions in a video that's available for you to watch right now in YouTube memberships. Why do your ears look like a car coming down the road with both doors open? In your other videos, what type of protection do you use to make sure that you can't be robbed while you're filming? If someone else went into that area and tried to do what I was doing without the background and without the connections that I have, they probably would have been in danger. But a lot of the time I go alone. That video is available for you guys to watch right now on YouTube memberships. I would really, really appreciate your guys'support. But if you guys can't... Videos will be uploaded to the channel for free as they always have been in the past. But anyway, that's enough for me. Let's get back to the show. So let's talk about some of the stuff that was happening and that you've seen, right? So while you were the leader, you said that you guys did sacrifices. Animal sacrifices. Animal sacrifices. Was there any ever human sacrifices? So this is the thing. I will never say something is unless I've seen it with my own eyes. So with my own eyes, I've never seen a human sacrifice. okay but did you hear about it happening i did within members of your church yes i did Yes. And would that be like murders or? So both murders and people stealing bodies from mortuaries. There was a person who worked at a clinic where a b**** and things happen. And they would bring light term fetuses to rituals. And that I've seen. Brian, you're kind of blowing my mind right now. Because last time we were so, you were so much more. I was. With everything. Yeah, but I had. So many interdicts. And I mean, I should have brought them with. I've got them in a file. 32. Seize and desist interdicts. I couldn't talk about this stuff. Okay, so they were bringing babies? That were quite developed, like seven-month, eight-month-old fetuses. And what kind of rituals did you need those, do they need humans for? Okay, so within Satanism. So there's what people hear about these high priests and high priestesses. And I was never a high priest within Satanism. I was a reverend. So I conducted rituals and I was the spokesperson. So for someone to be involved in Satanism for that long and to eventually become, every time there's a ritual for you to do, to step up. Do you understand? So a high priest within Satanism, internationally or locally. must have performed a certain amount of blood sacrifices and had to drink a certain amount of blood during rituals. So that's how they elevate to that level. So that's why they do it. Because I know a lot of people, even in the churches I go to to speak, they sometimes ask these questions about why. Why is there animal sacrifice? And why is there human sacrifice? And why is there this thing? It's about blood. And it's the same within Christianity. Blood is a currency. Do you understand? So I can definitely say today that the blood of Christ is the highest currency that you get in the spirit world. That is the highest currency. But so also within Satanism, blood has a currency. So the more pure the soul is that you are sacrificing, the higher the frequency or currency of that blood. I can't believe that stuff's happening here. I mean, if you really think about it, I already kind of knew. Yes, everybody does, Josh. This is the thing. But see, this was part of the Satanic's church agenda was to whitewash that stuff and say that stuff never happens. You also said last time, I think, or the first time it would be, that there was a cat killer in, I think it was the Cape Flats. Yes. That was going around killing cats. Were you misleading about that story as well? No. Because you said you were trying to track them down or something. Correct. So, see, that was a bad rap for Satanism. That was someone who was sloppy and left cats everywhere and claimed to be a Satanist. And I can definitely say today they were not a member of that organization. But, you see, there were two people high up within the organization who got very concerned because the news covered it. And said that we can't, and this was exactly the point of the organization, is to... To come out and say, no, but Satanism, we don't slaughter cats. We don't do that stuff. And I mean, because every, if you want to call them legit Satanists, who has ever partake in animal sacrifices and that type of thing, they don't leave traces behind. There are people in the police force, right, that were also members of the sort of African-Spanish church, that if they would come on a crime scene, and they were the first ones to call, if there were any occult symbols, if there were any traces or books, they would remove it before the police would arrive, not to implicate Satanism. And there was a case where this guy went and he asked his family. And there was a policeman who came and he removed two things from that scene. I interviewed a lady called Nicole Engelbrecht. Okay. And I think she wrote a book or told a story about this. So you say this person killed his family with an axe. He did. Is this quite a well-known story? Yes. So you're saying that police removed evidence from that scene? Not the police. Someone who was linked to the police. Okay. Okay. And eventually called the police to come. Okay. Because this guy was not a member of the South African Hispanic Church. His girlfriend was. Okay. Okay. So they weren't sure if it was her books or her symbols in his room. But that was removed before forensic teams arrived, etc. Again. So that Satanism doesn't get that bad rap. So what I'm saying is this stuff has been going on for years. And it is going on still in this country and around the world. But it's been covered up. And it's not a conspiracy theory. I was part of that agenda. We had meetings about this stuff all the time in the African Satanic Church. So this is why there was illegal, and again, blackmail. I mean, I can go into... all the stuff that that was directed at me not to be able to talk and make videos. What other rituals were you guys doing? So we've talked about sacrifices of animals and potentially definitely humans but... So I was very involved in satanic ritual ab***. Okay, so I don't know if you want to bleep that out as well because your video can get removed from YouTube if you say satanic ritual ab***. Okay. Okay, so call it SRA. Okay. And then people can fill in the gap. Okay, yeah. Okay, cool. The own researcher. So satanic ritual is rituals where people get tortured You basically torture people until there's actual blood flowing from them And do they agree to participate? Some do and some don't So some you would tell them if you want to stay in this organization After you've betrayed us this is what you're going to have to do And what kind of abuse like what kind of torture do they do? Whipping people, tying people up for long periods of time How long? Two hours, three hours. The one person I remember was like a day. So yeah, and it's it's basically to keep people in line. Jeez. So, okay, so... I'm sorry. I know this is a lot. No, no, it's okay. I mean, I kind of expected this kind of stuff, but at the same time, I didn't know how honest you were gonna be because you held back so much on the previous episode. I had to. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so there was... And is that kind of the worst of the rituals that you guys would do? That I was involved in, yes. Okay. So you were the leader. You guys were doing all of these rituals. You mentioned there's a lot of powerful figures within South Africa. Is there anyone that you can talk about? Well, not by name. Okay. Because, see, this is the thing. And it was never my intent, even when I left and when I had my encounter. It was never my intent to expose people. Do you understand? Because again, we're not fighting against people. Do you understand? We are not. The fight is not against physical people. So, and my point is just that if I can be saved, if I can be redeemed after doing all those things, anybody can. And I also think what a lot of people, and especially Christians, don't understand. Because I had for a very long time people saying, but why? Why would God save you? Why would Jesus have a personal meeting? with you what what i have to understand there was no way for me to ever have any such an experience in any other way i wasn't a person that was unhappy in my life i actually thought at that time i'm happy because i have money i have cars i have two harley davidson's i have all the cocaine i wanted um so i was in a happy good place do you understand according to if you would ask me three years ago Rian, are you happy? I would have said, I'm living the life. Do you understand? So at the same time, though, because the church was so public, thousands and thousands of people around the world were praying for me and my salvation. So the only way for God to show up was the way that it happened. And you honestly still get people that they're praying to the same God as what I pray to now. But it's almost like they doubt how powerful God is and how amazing God is, because he certainly is, and how powerful the blood of Christ is. And the thing is, I didn't at that time even believe that God exists or that Jesus Christ actually exists as a savior. Do you understand that? So the way it happened, I mean, it was a complete, I was in complete, obviously, shock at that time. I remember the second interview I did with you That was literally a week after I came out It was so soon, yeah And I was very raw And I was very tender and stuff And at that time I still dealt with Going into shops And you see your face on three covers of newspapers It was everywhere at the time, eh? And you get ridiculed And people send you From the satanic side People send you death threats And, and, and, and So today I obviously can see why I'm how that fits into the bigger plan. But yeah, it was quite intense, very intense time. So before we get to the stuff that happened after you left, right, which we've kind of talked about a little bit, but what else is there? Because there's no way of researching this. There's no way I could do preparation for this because I don't know what you were holding back, right? So we've talked about rituals. We've talked about there's a lot of powerful people that you can't really name in Satanism around South Africa. What else was going on that you couldn't talk about? So... Yeah, I think, again, mostly the rituals. What I couldn't talk about either was the security when it comes to internet stuff, like what is really happening. Because, again, certain people that were very involved with a big cell phone company in this country as well, they could hack into people's cell phones and computers and stuff. Again, other powerful people who weren't in Satanism. So they could do that. If we look at things like the healing industry, I mean, which again, I'm not saying the healing industry is satanic, but there were certain people that were in the healing industry. I don't know if they still, to be honest, but they would come to the rituals and bring needles and things that were used on patients. And again, it's to further, to wider, to bigger, because to be honest with you, a lot of Satanists, especially the ones who are quite fur in, they really want to see the Antichrist. being coming into the earth to be able to rule here that that is one of the main things um so because a lot of people still ask but why why do people do this stuff why do they because they they really believe that um lucifer is the guy who got the bad rap who fell from heaven he's going to rule here he's supposed to if we serve him we have power here this is the thing it's all about power and people are so blinded by what is really going on if I look at the time I was doing psychic work, right? And you work with these angels and spirit guides, those things, and you see them and you see into the spirit world and stuff. And I really thought I was seeing things accurately. And then when I left the satanic church and I left satanism, and during that nine-month period where I went through deliverance, myself. I had to go for the deliverance and people refer to it as exorcism, whatever. When I went through that, that stuff suddenly stopped. So suddenly I couldn't see things anymore and I was actually grateful. And then last year, when it became clear to me that this is the work I'm going to have to do now, I actually, I said to God, look, I don't know if I can do this and you will have to send people my way, et cetera. But would you please show me what the spirit world really looks like, if it's the same as what I saw it. And it was, it's not the same as now. Everywhere I go, I see things. It's only when I do certain work for people and when I allow Jesus Christ to set people free. But when that veil was removed for five minutes, for me to actually see what's going on around us all the time, it's shocking. And again, I don't... I'm not converting people. I don't want to, I'm not here to convert people. You're sharing your experience. Yeah. To Christianity, it's your choice, but whatever else you choose, know what you're choosing. That is what I'm saying. And what did you, what did you see, right? You said there's a spiritual wall. What's on the other side of that wall? A wall. Sorry, what did you ask? What's on the other side of that wall? The spiritual wall. The veil. Yeah. Okay. So everything in the spirit world, is interlinked with earth. So when I'm saying that, it means like around us. So there is a constant, constant battle between the devil and God and between demons and God's children constantly all the time. So everything on the physical earth is observed by the spirit world all the time. Okay. And I'm not saying that now. everybody needs to be scared, okay? Because that's certainly not, this is the beautiful thing. We don't have to be if we know what our authority is. But I was so blinded and deceived by what I was involved in that I didn't realize this is actually what's going on and that it's that real, do you understand? Because you hear things in movies and you hear people talk and you hear other Christians talk about it and like, you know, whatever, you're schizo, you know, things like that. When I actually saw it, for that five minutes. I could not not do what I'm doing at the moment because it's extremely real. It's very real. We are literally living in the time of revelations at the moment. We are. And it's because it explains why the world looks the way it does. And what I'm trying to say here as well, I'm not here to convert people. They can believe whatever they believe. I know what I've seen. I know what I see in people that come to me every day that's oppressed by demons, that's oppressed by demonic forces and stuff. And that is reality. That is my reality and what I've seen. And like I said earlier, at the end of the day, it's not us doing it. It's not us doing that work. This is God that's doing the work. And God certainly will do that work for everybody. You don't even have to be a Christian to be delivered. Do you understand? You also don't have to be perfect. At the end of the day, Jesus wants your heart. God wants your heart. That is what is important. But sadly, people open doorways to things to come and oppress them. And this is what I'm seeing every day. And what is also sad to me is that a lot of churches is completely ignorant that this is going on. And they would say things like, yeah, we don't really want to focus on the devil. I agree because we shouldn't focus on the devil. We should just know the realities of what is going around. As Christians, we're supposed to know what our foundation in Jesus Christ is and that we have authority. Another thing that's very interesting, and I never understood this way back in the satanic church. There were two people. that were in schools, one in a private school and one in like a public primary school, who also did a lot of the rituals and stuff. And at one stage, the focus was very much to hook young people in so that they can become involved in Satanism. And the two teachers both said the same thing. They said that at school, some children that they're throwing astral thoughts at were very open to it. And they could influence their way of thinking, etc., etc. And then some children had this like a ring of fire around them, and like you can't penetrate them. And then when we figured it out, it's like those were the children that parents were actually praying for, that those children were covered in the blood of Jesus. So no witchcraft, no Satanist, nothing could actually penetrate those kids. And today, as I'm sitting here, That is the power of what that is. And because of my experience that I had with Jesus Christ and the love, and I've said this in many interviews, the love that I actually experienced, how can I not follow him? There is no other choice for me. Do you understand? So the amount of love that I experienced in that moment that knocked me literally off my feet, and I still can't tell you whether it was five minutes. or two hours, or how long that was. And I never had that encounter with Jesus again, ever. I mean, I know Jesus is real, and I do hear the Holy Spirit talking to me. That is how I hear it. But it's not like Jesus is in my house the whole day, and we have conversations. And I think that's, again, the misconception that people have. But because of that one encounter, there was absolutely no choice. And that's where I'm still today. That's who I follow. I am a follower. I'm a disciple. I just never imagined, even two years ago, after I got out of Satanism, that I would be helping people today to get out as well. I didn't even thought of that. I, again, like I said, I thought at the time, I'm going to get as normal as possible job now. And yeah, I don't see you doing a nine to five at a desk. And it's also funny. Before this interview, you were saying like, you're not going to cry today. And you're not necessarily crying, but I can see every time you bring this up, as you brought it up last time, you get so emotional about it. And it really does about that encounter that you had, right? And for someone like me, who isn't religious, it's so hard for me to grasp these things. No, completely. You know? Yeah, I understand. But when I look at you as someone that isn't religious, And I see how it touches you and how that one specific moment, every time you mention it to me, brings a tear to your eye or makes you emotional. It's kind of hard to deny in some way that something happened, you know? And again, it's up to people. This is the thing. Because I think there was a time where I felt I have to justify it or convince people. But it's not. I don't care. This is the thing. I care about a lot of other things, but I don't care whether people believe me or not. I tell people if you doubt my salvation, I doubt the Holy Spirit in you. I really do. I doubt the Holy Spirit in Christians who doubt my salvation. Okay, so that's the first thing. The other thing is the encounter I had. I don't actually, Josh, I really, I don't care whether people believe it or not, because that doesn't matter. If people, and again, once you see what is really going on, your focus is not going to be on who's got tattoos, who's doing what sin, who's doing, because there's very big things to be focusing on. So I think we talked about that encounter last time, right? Yes. Where you were in... I think at the time you were in the satanic church, right? And you were performing a very... No. Where were you at the time? So this is the other thing. I wasn't performing a ritual. I was about to. Okay. So if you want me to walk you through that... Yeah. So you said, okay, so you were about to perform a ritual. And if I remember correctly, you said you had never done this ritual before. It was a very, I don't know how to say it, but powerful ritual. Yes. Like only specific people... can do. So, I mean, if you want to get into that a little bit more. Sure, why not? Is there any details that you left out last time? Yes. Okay. Yeah. Because if there wasn't, then there was... No, there was. Not in terms of what happened, but in terms of why. Yes, certainly. So maybe get into that a bit more. Yeah. So the day that we're talking about, or the night, was the 24th of May 2022. Okay, when I performed or wanted to do this. But A week or two leading up to this, there was a meeting, again, of the church council, and they said, look, because of connections they had to international Satanists that were also quite high up, there's something that has to be done to see whether the Antichrist has been born and is living on earth somewhere at the moment, and to see how far we are along in terms of the agenda, the satanic agenda. internationally. So every satanic organization that links to each other has one or two people right at the top, which a lot of those people I never met. I'm talking about the overseas one, certainly the local ones. But they congregate with each other. They don't actually talk to the people lowest. So in the church council, there was a meeting, and two of the church council members said, this ritual will have to be performed to see the person that has experience with sight. With anything that's psychic or seeing in the past, they're going to ask that person to do it. So inside Africa and in Satanism, that was me, right? So I said, okay, cool, I'll do that. So that was the intent of it. All right. So what happened is on the night of question, I went to the satanic church. I made sure that there's not going to be anybody else. I said, I need the inside temple for myself to do this ritual. So I... went, there's a pentagram that you move around and you light a candle at each point for that. So I got that far. There's a gong that I hit. And then this, now still we are at the beginning stages. The whole room lit up, like as if lights are switched on from the side, which there wasn't, there wasn't. And that part of the church was dark. The only way to let that part up was through with candles. So I thought someone is My very first thought was someone is either spying on me or playing a prank or whatever. And I think I said this. I actually thought there's a demon or a person playing a prank on me. So as I turned around, that's when I saw him. That's when I saw, firstly, the outlines of this figure. And he started walking towards me. And he became more and more visible. And then I asked him, who are you? And he said to me, Yeshua of Nazareth. So then I was still in that thing. And we talked about this. So I didn't at first believe it. And I said, prove it. And again, that's when he flooded me with his love. So, and I stayed in his presence for a while. And it was just, I was completely on the ground. And I... couldn't actually look up any further. Again, I can't tell you, and I know this doesn't make sense. I can't tell whether that was five minutes or longer. But I walked out, I didn't do the actual ritual that I was supposed to, I was in complete shock and denial. And I thought I'm going insane. That was for a long time my mind. So I walked out to the car. I think I smoked there for a while, I probably smoked half a packet of cigarettes or something. And I drove home. And I was exhausted. I was drained as in like, I can't explain to you. So that was for about a two day period. And then one morning, it was like 3am in the morning. I got woken up with a voice and said, go to the beach. And that's when I started having conversations with God about things. And a lot of things about my life, a lot of things about the world, a lot of the things about why I am where I was at that time. So I can just sit here today and say, number one, it's a miracle I'm alive sitting here. That is God. Do you understand? It's a miracle that I didn't kill another person or myself in the process. That is God's grace. And I know people are tired of me talking about God's grace, but people have no idea how much God loves this world. Like, it's insane. We can't fathom it with our mind of how much love he has for us, for this world. And that really, He does love everybody. And this is part of my prayer every day. If I can just love people as much as God loves them, I don't care who they are, where they come from, and what they've done, even to me, we should love people. That will already solve so much, really. Like, if we can love other people like God loves us, if we can, if you want to show people God. you must show them love that's how to do it i think a lot of the problems in today's society is is is greed you know at the center of it and i always i try i mean i always don't always get it right but i always try to to lead with love and kindness and obviously sometimes i have my weak moments and yeah but i just i wish more i wish people were you had that as the core value, you know, it's just like to be kinder to each other. Yes. And again, that's what I'm trying to do. Even, even I'm in, I'm involved with hectic, very, if you want to call it grim and dark work at the moment. I still want to focus on love. I still want to show people God's love. I want to ask you a question and I don't mean this in an insulting way, right? With that ritual that you did, where you had that encounter. Were there substances involved? No, no. So interesting. And I'm not sure if I asked you that last time. You didn't. I thought I'd ask you this time. No, you didn't. So I had quite a hectic cocaine problem for, I would say, almost two years. So this actually doesn't even, I don't think it really connects unless I can probably give God the credit for that. Although I was still a Satanist at the time when I gave drugs up, when I went cold turkey. So, yeah. Early, it was my birthday, right, in 2022. Well, it's my birthday every year. But at my birthday in 2022, this was about two months before that encounter. We, with some friends, did a lot of cuckoo and one of my friends passed away. That night? Yeah, because of an OD. And that shook me to the core. And even though I was still a socialist at the time, I immediately went... I'm called turkey with that. Were you there when it happened? Yes. Yes. That was quite dramatic. And that's probably one of the things I regret till today. I mean, I have a lot of regrets. I really do. And that's also something I pray about a lot, all the regrets I have. Yeah, there was a, I would say, almost three year period, but especially two years where, especially from, I would say, early 2020 till about my birthday in 2022, where I had a gram of in my boot every day. And again, I'm not, I'm not saying that that excused a lot of the things I did. And I completely hear your question. Because yeah, also some people asked me about that experience I had with Jesus, if there was any other thing involved like marijuana or... No, certainly not. I think you did mention psychedelics. Yes, but that's something I did also, even before Satanism. But there was no part of substances in that encounter. No, definitely certainly not. There was red wine. To be honest, yes. There was a glass of red wine that I actually had, which you do at every satanic ritual, by the way. You have a glass of red wine on the altar and you actually cut part of your skin open and you put blood into it. And if there's other people with you, they all do it and everybody drinks from the same glass. That's also part of it. So if I have to be 100% honest, there was a glass of red wine. But no, there wasn't any other substances or anything. And again, I was almost two months, just over two months clean when that actually happened. And sad to say, but a lot of people in Satanism do. Do you think more so in Satanism? Yes. What do you think about it? No, because if you think about indulgence, that is the religion says indulge. There's no other religion. That says have sex. Yeah, yeah. Satanism encourages it. Yes, absolutely. It really, really does. And a lot of people that we used to hook in initially, we would use things like and sex and things and say, if you join us, this is the stuff that you can have access to. So it was every way at every party, at every ritual. My very first interview with you that we had. I did drugs in your bathroom before the interview. No, you did not. Yes, Josh, I did. Really? Yes. Because we did a lot of interviews and things at that time. Yeah. Every time before I did an interview, I would take a line of s*** and I would go on camera. And you have confidence and you can talk about things. Yeah. So you got heavily addicted and your friend passed away. And then since then you've been sober. Yes. Okay. Yeah. So. the 19th of february and i it's actually beautiful that it falls on my own birthday so i mean my sobriety so the 19th of february this year was two years and in terms of like satanic panic and and i know a lot of people look at hollywood for example and think there's a lot of rumors i don't know if they're rumors if they're not of people using satanism or the illuminati to kind of uh make their way through the industry quicker or you know they say a lot of people like sell their souls for the industry or is is any of i've never really looked into it but is any of that true so a lot of it is um a lot of it is true um but there's a there's some things that's completely misrepresented and people don't have all the facts of how exactly that works but what was the first part of the question sorry was just that people oh satanic panic yeah that was the first i wanted to say something about that yes so if we look at satanism specifically in south africa um and i'm talking about 80s 90s okay that period because there was certainly satanism before then but most of the documented work that's written by christian people and by other authors and by a retired policeman was from the 80s and 90s so yes The way that Satanism existed in the 80s and 90s, it existed a certain way. The way in which people will gather and find each other, that was a certain way, right? But that information, unfortunately, is not relevant today. Because the way that Satanism has changed and evolved in the last 20 years is vastly different. And it's because of social media. It's because of... internet it's because of all those things um it's much easier to find people now it's much easier to organize a gathering it's much easier to influence people and i'm not saying that social media on the internet is evil because we can use it as a beautiful powerful tool but it's very much used by the enemy by the devil to deceive people as well and i know for a fact that there's games and certain platforms that people use and children use where there are literally satanists you trolling on there trying to connect with children to lower them into things by using certain symbols in the background of games and things like that it is a reality so so that you say like children right are they looking to trying to convert them into satanism or they're looking to use them for both things both why do you think we have such a human problem um you Go into that a bit more. So the other person again that we mentioned earlier. Yes. Okay. So Oprah Winfrey had a school here in South Africa. Oprah Winfrey School for Orphans quite a while ago. It was years ago. He was very much involved with that as well. And the children disappeared from there. It was very much involved. Was this a scandal? Like was this a known thing? Yeah, go and Google it. So if I Google missing kids from Oprah's preschool, it will come up. In South Africa, it will come up. So what happened to those kids? You guys. They were used in sacrifices? Really? Okay, I don't know if any of this is true. I haven't, I don't know anything about this. But if that is true, that's shocking. Okay, so I have, I've not seen that. Why those kids? But I heard, I'll get to it. This is what I've heard from people who knew the perpetrators very well. And this is one of the founding members of the South African Hispanic Church and the person who funded a lot of the legal stuff. That guy was up to some really dark stuff, eh? So the children that disappeared from that specific school. A lot of them were never found. And if I ask you, if I sit here and ask you, how many children do you know that go missing in this country? And we're not talking about the world yet. We're talking about this country. How many children goes missing in this country that are never found? Their bodies are never found? I think the majority. It's interesting because I had Gaten McKenzie on my podcast for the last episode I did. And he... came on to speak about the Jocelyn Smith case, right? And I forgot the exact numbers, but I think it's more than 50, like more than 70%, I think, even of kids that are taken or never found. And the ones that are found generally weren't lost in the first place. They just kind of wandered off, went missing and made their way back eventually. But there was another thing that I wanted to ask was that, Audrey Norton, right? So she was the co-One of the other co-founders. One of the other co-founders of the Satanic Church, right? In South Africa. Yes. What was your relationship like when you left the church? Okay, so I want to mention a few things here, because I've got her permission to say certain things as well, now that we're connected again. Alright, so this came- this came out almost a year ago when she opened up to me so about a month before i had my encounter with jesus christ audrey was already planning to get out of the satanic church out of satanism she's out as well yeah but she didn't tell me she didn't because she was scared of how i was going to respond the reasons she wanted to get out and i can talk about this today and it's so it's so freeing to be able to talk There were people in Johannesburg in Gauteng who were getting one of the chapters of the South African Satanic Church, trying to get the chapter going. And there was a person there who was supposed to spearhead this. And he had a friend and also someone that was also a member in the South African Satanic Church. So they had to come to Cape Town for whatever reason. And Audrey offered to host them so that they can stay over, which they did. And this guy is also a professional photographer, et cetera. So at the one dinner at Audrey's house one night, we were all sitting around the table, including the people from Joburg, and he had one of those very big iPads that would, you know, not the normal one that I have, but the ones that fall. They stand on a stand. A little keyboard. And as he went through some stuff, Audrey saw certain pictures of children that he took and stuff they were busy with. uh kids in south africa yes okay okay and she were she just found out she was pregnant audrey just found out she was pregnant so obviously it hit her hard yes yeah yes so she started making plans on how to get out safely because she started seeing what people were actually involved in and this is the thing people think that because we were co-founders and leaders we knew everything that people were doing no you can never know i mean what people we just saw what happened at rituals that we attended right in our engagements with people and what other people told us but people were doing a lot of things and the sad part is we went along along with a lot of things and said that well that that's that person's personal life it's okay you know today i'm like i mean i'm shocked It's like there was a time of my life that was just a blur with all these things. But coming back to Audrey. So Audrey then wanted to get out already. So Audrey didn't want to initially leave because of a religious conviction or a reason like that. And she still stayed. So. I then had my experience, which I told her about. And she just kept quiet. She didn't criticize me or anything. And she said to me at the end of the day, this is my life, my choice, what I want to do. So she's not going to judge me. And she doesn't know what to make of that experience. But she knows me well enough to know that this is very real to me. I won't be lying and making it up. And she said she will support me as much as possible. And she still... She was still involved in, obviously, in the South African Satanic Church. And then I left. And what then happened was the way that people bombarded her in the Satanic Church. And again, the same people from Johannesburg, people from the chapter in Port Elizabeth about me and saying that she's not allowed to be friends with me. She's not allowed to have contact with me. And for her, a light went on. And so, like, is this how much my life is being controlled? And then she got legal people involved and she also stepped out about four or five months later. It's interesting that the two leaders are the ones that stepped away. Earlier on, you mentioned blackmail, right? So is there anything that people have against you that they could use? This is the beautiful thing. I hope they do. Because if they do, people will see what is happening inside Satanism. So what kind of stuff would they have on you? Pictures of me snarling. of people's bodies, sexual things that happened, those things. There was a picture of me drinking blood out of a human skull. So again, like... A real human skull? Yes. So what? Do you know who that skull belonged to? I do. So point being... Is it an open case? I'll come back. Okay, sorry. Sorry. So point being, release it. I was a Satanist. That is what Satanists do. So this doesn't have a hold on me. Nobody's going to use my past to blackmail me. Do you understand? Plus the foundation of Jesus Christ that I stand on and my identity in Christ that I know I have. That is my protection. And my advocate once said something very interesting. When these... Intradicts and seasoned assistings came. She said, you know what? If this does go to a court, they will have to show up in person. And they'll expose themselves to an extent, yeah. You were asking about the skull. Who did it belong to? So the skull was taken from a lab in a university. So I don't actually know who the, but I know one of the students. The bodies are donated for science. Yeah. Yeah. So I know that that specific skull, that is where I was in the picture drinking from that skull, that skull was taken from the University of Stellenbosch by an old student. Okay. So I don't know the person's name that this... No, sorry. No, you don't need to... Okay, yeah. I was just wondering if it was someone that was passed away or killed. So a lot of the time I know at the universities, my friend was a doctor, the bodies are donated. like people can choose to donate their body to science or people like prisoners that bodies never claimed by family members are donated to science and medical research and people to practice on and yeah of course yeah okay i mean i think that covers about most of it i think um i mean is there anything else that you want to say that that we haven't really covered that you think is important um no i think in terms of just i think this was this was a very good looking at the last two years of what happened afterwards. Amazing. Well, thank you so much, Rian, for coming down today. You're very welcome. It was long overdue. Yes, I know. I know. For the third episode. And thank you all for watching. I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Wide Awake Podcast. And I'll see you all very soon. I've got some documentaries coming out. I went to Orania. I went to... I did another gang documentary, but this time it's a very positive one. So yeah, I'm excited to release those. And then, yeah, I'll see you guys very soon. Cheers.

Um, that and that I've seen. Brian, you're kind of blowing my mind right now. I had so many interdicts and I mean, I should have brought them with.

I've got them in a file. Um, 32, um, cease and desist interdicts. I couldn't talk about this stuff.

I think let's just jump straight into it, eh? There has been so much going on in your life, I think, since the last time we spoke. We have had two previous podcasts.

This is the third, which I think means that you're probably the most reoccurring guest ever on this show. Okay. I think so.

I don't think anyone else has been on three times. Yeah. And yeah, man, I just want to know what have you been up to since the last time we spoke? Just briefly. We'll get into it just now.

Sure. No problem. So what I'm involved with and what I've been doing for the last year is I'm very much actively helping people to get out of the occult and out of Satanism. So there's obviously similarities when I say occult and Satanism.

But. And a lot of people would refer to it as deliverance ministry. So I have been partnering with various deliverance ministries in order to help people with that. And I had to work very much behind the scenes for a while until very recently.

So, yes. There were some legal issues. There were some legal issues. There was.

Between, because you are. one of the co-founders. I was. Well, you are one of the co-founders, whether you've left or you were one of the co-founders of the Satanic Church.

Yes. And obviously in the last episode, you talked about how you had an encounter with Jesus and you turned to Christianity. Correct.

Right. And since you've left the Satanic Church, there's been some legal issues that even during our last episodes. kind of hold you back from saying certain things. Correct. I have no idea what those things are.

We haven't really spoken much about it. All I know is that you couldn't say things last time. So I'm very curious to see what you have to say. I'll spend some time just explaining that maybe. So I think that could be important.

So when I left, when I officially resigned from the South African Satanic Church in 2022, I think people know about the month. that I had to wait and keep that quiet for them to prepare certain statements and things and put certain things in place. Because I think they were more aware than me of the ripple that that would create if I go public with that information. And then during that month where we were trying to keep things under wrap, I had some media people contacting me because there were rumors going around. And that's why I made that very first initial video, the one that went.

wide that I basically shot to myself. And the reason why I did that was I was not going to do all these little interviews. I thought, let me put one video out that people know, yes, it's true, I left. And these are the reasons why I left.

So I don't think I had any idea on the impact that that would have both for the public and both for Christians and Satanists and all sorts of people. So what happened after that? We had our last interview just shortly after that, I remember.

And then what started happening from about, I would say, July 2022 was the first official lawyer's letter I got for a period up to now, February of this year. So in total, about 30 documents, interjects, cease and desist, lawyer's letters from various parties that... that was still involved with the sort of African satanic church.

And because I signed a NDA, a non-disclosure agreement, on the day I actually resigned, this was the document that they constantly used as, you can't say this, you can't talk about that, you can't. Why would you sign that if you were leaving? For them to let me go. Okay. Yeah.

And I think the main, if you want to call it, idea behind that was... for me not to be able to talk about specific people to protect people's identities, because I think some people know, some people don't know, there's quite high, if you want to call it high, sorry, no, let's use the words influential people that's involved in Satanism, especially in this country, and certainly around the world. But a lot of the members consisted of CEOs of big companies.

people in the media industry, people in music, etc. That was the main reason also. And then I released a few videos by myself.

So this resulted in them obviously sending me these documents and I had to start taking videos down. Some of the original videos I made as well. And the person who funded the legal team sadly committed to s**t early this year because of other matters. And... you might have to edit.

part of this out so there's things with child um and fraud of very big financial companies so um that he's indicated in you know implicated in and so sadly he commit he committed was this the guy that killed himself in amman yes uh what was his name i'm just we're gonna say it well everyone knows it's he had that uh okay so i forgot his name and i just want to also make it clear that what I'm doing at the moment and moving forward is I'm not exposing specific people and their families, etc. That's not what we're doing here. But so that situation is extremely sad. But this resulted in the people who were still very actively pushing the sort of Afghanistanic church not being able to continue the legal process of not deregistering it as an organization.

So Together with a legal team that I've been working with for like about eight months, we finally got it to a point where it's now being deregistered for the point that this NDA that I signed can no longer be in place, right? So now, because that is not in void, we can talk and we are here and I'm making content again. And I also just want to stress something is that this does not mean that the satanism doesn't now exist anymore.

I mean, satanism has existed before the South African Satanic Church and it will carry on existing. So that's not what this is about. So I'm not making a statement or an announcement that don't worry, there's no more satanists.

So wait, I'm a bit lost here. Okay. So you're saying that the Satanic Church doesn't exist in South Africa anymore?

Yes, as an organization. Because a while ago when I contacted you, right? I messaged you maybe a year ago, a few months ago, saying I'd like you to come back on the podcast.

And one of the reasons was because online, I was looking up the South African Satanic Church and I couldn't see it anywhere. I was looking on Facebook. I was looking for their website and I couldn't find anything.

So it's non-existent anymore. Correct. Is it non-existent?

As an organization. But they're still practicing. Of course.

So I know for certain that... There's a self-styled group in Milnerton that they also have a premises. They have registered a business with it.

They don't call it anything that you can, if you read the name, it will say Satanism. But everybody that goes there, everybody that runs it, they were members of the South African Satanic Church, and they are now carrying on with the rituals and stuff like that. And then obviously you have private groups and you have smaller groups of people. And you have people that also gather in groups up to 50 and 60 that are still doing the rituals and doing those things around the country.

That's very much still happening. But in terms of a religious organization and in terms of an on-paper organization, no, it's been deregistered. And are you happy about that?

Yes, extremely. It's quite insane because, I mean, so I'm trying to process everything. There was a lot of information there. No, by all means. But, um.

When I first met you, right, you were one of the leaders of the satanic church. And I mean, you were so engulfed in it. It was your whole life. It was your whole persona. It was your whole personality.

And then the second podcast we did, it was a complete switch up, right? And now you are kind of going against them. So no. I am, this is the other thing.

So we have freedom of religion in this country, right? Which is a good thing because that allows me to say I'm a Christian, right? And this is what I believe in and that.

And this allows other people to choose their religions as well. And it allows people, if they want to be Satanist, they can be Satanist. So my problem is not freedom of religion, okay? My problem and my concern is that people are led into things in a deceitful way. So if you are a Satanist, or if you are a satanic organization, but you're not transparent on what people are getting involved in when they join, that is my problem.

And that I have seen and sadly, I was part of that. Do you understand? So the work I'm doing at the moment, and what I'm focusing in is to expose basically what the real um agenda is behind satanism etc so i'm not saying um people are not allowed to be satanist i'm not saying people are not allowed to be muslim people are because people are allowed certainly we have free will my issue is the transparency my issue is that the deceit my issue is the way in which the satanic agenda has been pushed at the moment and it's not done in an open way so let's say for instance people would um or satanists for that matter would be open and say If you join Satanism, you are eventually going to be required to do certain rituals. You are eventually going to be required to betray some people. You are eventually going to be required to do certain things for Satanism.

But it's never said initially. Do you understand? And what are some of those things? How long do we have? Just, I mean, go for it.

Okay. So what we also need to keep in mind here is that a lot of... And I was certainly one of these people. So a lot of people, when they get involved in Satanism, many of them actually don't believe that the devil exists.

Many of those people actually say, we don't acknowledge Satan as a being, we don't acknowledge that the devil exists, etc., etc. So as you get deeper and deeper into Satanism and as you climb the hierarchy with certain things, which is how Satanism is structured, and you start doing certain rituals, the... demonic sphere and the devil becomes more and more real and that will start showing up. And there is absolutely no debate once you're in that deep that whether the devil actually exists or not. It's just the way that deceit works and part of how that plan is structured that it's based on deceit.

And a lot of people, once they're in there, they actually feel they can't get out. I mean, even me at the time I was getting out, I got death threats. many death threats, pictures that were taken of me during rituals were suddenly everywhere. A lot of things.

So a lot of things that you think, this is a safe environment, and these people are my friends, and I can trust them, gets used against you. And certainly I know, because I also did that to other people, you understand. So the moment you hear a rumor of Jack and Sally wants to maybe potentially leave a coven or a chapter or a grotto, or the satanic church, then we start using certain things to keep that discretion, for them not to expose other people, etc.

So that, I feel, is very important to also explain. But there is certain rituals that you have to do as a Satanist, whether you like it or not. And I remember at the initial interviews that we had with potential members, we don't mention this to them.

We say to them, look... There's a lot of social things involved here. There's access to drugs and to sex and all those things as much as you want. And that's the, if you want to call it the nice, fun aspect of it.

But there is certain rituals you're going to have to do that would empower everybody as a group and things that you're going to have to engage with. And that was transparent to a degree, but we never gave people details and said, okay, so you're going to have to sacrifice animals, for instance. So last time you denied that as well, I think. That not.

Probably the first interview I did. Because, see, that was part of it as well. My job description was to be on social media, be a spokesperson for Satanism, and say that these are the things that will never happen in Satanism.

That is satanic panic, etc., etc. And certainly that happens. So did you have to sacrifice animals? Yes. And what kind of animals are we talking about here?

So, again, there's different types of rituals for different people. So initially we're looking at things like... cats, we're looking at things like chickens, goats, that type of thing.

That's shocking to me. I mean, I knew stuff like that happened, but... It does.

I did believe you when you said, because maybe I'm a bit naive sometimes, but I do believe, I tend to have a very believing nature, you know, I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, and it's nice to see that you're kind of opening up about that now, right? It's important, Josh, because... Um, I, and this is the thing, I've been wanting to talk about this stuff for so long. And for a two year period, I started going to churches and people who supposedly are involved in deliverance and stuff and work with this stuff and say, do you want this information?

Do you want photographs? Do you want? And I was willing to give people photographs where I'm incriminated, etc. And a lot of them were just simply not interested.

And then as time went on. I was very clearly shown that this is what I'm going to have to do. If I want this information out there, I'm going to have to take that on. And at the same time, I was ridiculed by the Christian community as well.

People extremely like judging me and claiming I saw the false Jesus or knew as Jesus or whatever. I see a lot of that stuff. It is complete blasphemy.

And I also see people attacking you because you're gay. Yeah. So, I mean, we can go very much into those things.

And, and. all the answers I had to get on those things. But at the end of the day, you know, that is blasphemy.

It is blaspheming against the Holy Spirit. And if they are Christian, they will know what that means. But it's not for me to actually be angry at those people.

Do you understand? So I have many times received scripture from God. And when I have certain times where I go through extremely difficult times because of those things. I'm constantly shown that this is what it is. It's not about you.

It's about them. So you accept it. And it's been quite an intense journey, leaving the South African satanic church, leaving satanism as well, going through nine months of deliverance and now being on this side of the table.

I want to go back a little bit, right? So just briefly, I want to know how you became one of the leaders of the satanic church up until now. So one day...

I was running a shop in Oakdale in Belleville. This man walked in, the same man we talked about earlier, and he said to me that he wants to found the first satanic legitimate. Can you say his name? Everyone's going to know who he is.

And he's passed away. Yeah, but he's family. Okay. Yeah, so, I mean, that's the part. People will put it together, though, obviously.

Yeah, so, because I actually know. one of his siblings very well okay it's a really nice person he's a very successful businessman that got caught up in a massive scandal recently yes um and he there was like a massive lawsuit against him and he was going to be sued i've just forgot his name but he was going to be sued for like half a billion rand or something and and there's other things as well he ended up taking his life because of those allegations and he was obviously guilty yeah yeah okay so so he came in and wanted to found The first satanic church. And then I said, okay, well, this is interesting. And he said, well, the reason he came to me is his wife. You might have to cut a lot of this stuff out.

But anyway, so his wife came to me for a reading about a month before then. And she told him about me and what I saw in it and the information and stuff. So he was very interested in it, obviously. And he came to me and he found out via another contact that I'm actually a satanist already because they saw me at some of the... gatherings that were at people's houses.

So he came and saw me and then he said he wants to do this. I was called to a meeting in town. I went there, there were four other people and they said legitimately, this is what they want to do. But they're looking for a spokesperson.

And they're looking for someone with occult background that has experience, as well as knows the Christian Bible very well. So I fitted all that, basically the categories. You fitted the mold, yeah.

Yes. So, and they asked me, what would you like to do that? And I said, well, this is the amount of money I'm making at the moment by myself. I would like to make double that.

And it was immediately a thing of, cool, then that will be your salary. And within two months, we signed contracts and we set it up. We put it through the Department of Social Development. It went through the rest of history, went public.

So it was very clever in the sense that they never had. to be the faces. Yeah.

But they very much wanted a legitimized organization and for Satanism to become acceptable and for Satanism to be a recognized religion in the country. So that was the main thing for them. Why? Because of, if we look at, again, the satanic agenda, which we can go into if you want, because it's both international and locally.

Yeah. It has a lot to do with money. It has a lot to do with power.

It has a lot to do with the real information, and that's very little, that is out there about Satanism. To counter that and to say, but it's illegal to say this and this and this about Satanism because we are Satanists and we are a registered organization. And that's slander and you can't say that. And this is actually what we do.

So that was the main, it's PR. Can you just tell me his name? I'll bleep it, I promise.

Okay, sorry, it's driving me crazy. I'll bleep that, I promise. And you'll have to bleep that out as well. Yeah.

Okay, because people will know. Okay. Okay. So he approaches you to start this church, the Satanic church, and then they fund it, you start it, and then… Yeah, so he bought a building in Century City, which used to be a very nice car sales showroom, double story, and it was blocked out, very much like this type of curtains. So it could have enough people inside.

This was just before COVID hit. So… Then COVID hit and then we couldn't actually start doing the gatherings. So we went online then with services and rituals for private groups and people were obviously still doing their thing. And I mean, from all the Satanists in South Africa, because there was certainly way more than the ones who were actually members, we got about... in a two-year period, 12,000 people to register.

I remember you saying that before. As Satanists, yes. And how many Satanists in total do you think there are in South Africa? Or is that impossible to know? It's not easy to say because, I mean, a lot of Satanists were also against the sort of African Satanic church as well, to say, you can't do this this publicly.

We're going to get exposed. This is not what Satanism is supposed to look like. You're supposed to be in the shadows and et cetera, et cetera. So it's very difficult. I would actually say about 50,000.

Yeah. That's really kind of my gauge. And, I mean, the beautiful thing is, or the wonderful thing is, many people have left Satanism because of my testimony that time.

And I'm not saying the majority. I'm just saying many people who have been in contact with me. Because, again, a lot of people who are inert. Or inert because of you.

No. Well, some, I would suppose. But. a lot of people who were deep into it when you are that deep into it you really believe that i can't get out of this ever so when people saw that there is a person who can actually get out do you see because it's it's part of the deception um it's part of demonic deception it's part of the enemy's deception is that you can never get out of things you are bound there's no way out Do people feel like they can't get out because of the belief or because there's actually a physical real-life threat from other Satanists?

Both. And I mean, once you do certain rituals and actual demons appear, that's what you're going to believe, right? And once you get tortured yourself by demonic entities is what happens with a lot of people when they do these rituals.

And when they don't want to keep on doing rituals with blood to appease these demons... you get tortured. That is the reality. And I know this sounds like a like a movie, but this is literally the stuff I've seen. What's up, everyone?

I hope you're all doing well. I have got a little announcement to make. So over the past few months, I've struggled quite a lot with YouTube, demonetizing some of my biggest videos.

And this has just made it really hard to make a sustainable living on YouTube. I've set up a YouTube memberships program. And this will allow you guys to support the show.

and get extra content at the same time. And how it works is there's three different tiers. For now, each tier offers the same perks, but I just thought I'd add in the two higher tiers for people that are able to support the show more and that want to support the show more. But feel free to just go for the lowest tier, you'll get the same perks. And those perks are extra videos and extra discussions that won't be going on the main channel.

It will just be for members. And like, for example, the first video I uploaded is a Q&A a few weeks ago. I mentioned that people were asking me to do a Q&A.

So I've made a post, people sent in questions, and I've answered all of those questions in a video that's available for you to watch right now in YouTube memberships. Why do your ears look like a car coming down the road with both doors open? In your other videos, what type of protection do you use to make sure that you can't be robbed while you're filming? If someone else went into that area and tried to do what I was doing without the background and without the connections that I have, they probably would have been in danger.

But a lot of the time I go alone. That video is available for you guys to watch right now on YouTube memberships. I would really, really appreciate your guys'support. But if you guys can't...

Videos will be uploaded to the channel for free as they always have been in the past. But anyway, that's enough for me. Let's get back to the show. So let's talk about some of the stuff that was happening and that you've seen, right?

So while you were the leader, you said that you guys did sacrifices. Animal sacrifices. Animal sacrifices.

Was there any ever human sacrifices? So this is the thing. I will never say something is unless I've seen it with my own eyes.

So with my own eyes, I've never seen a human sacrifice. okay but did you hear about it happening i did within members of your church yes i did Yes. And would that be like murders or?

So both murders and people stealing bodies from mortuaries. There was a person who worked at a clinic where a b**** and things happen. And they would bring light term fetuses to rituals.

And that I've seen. Brian, you're kind of blowing my mind right now. Because last time we were so, you were so much more.

I was. With everything. Yeah, but I had.

So many interdicts. And I mean, I should have brought them with. I've got them in a file. 32. Seize and desist interdicts. I couldn't talk about this stuff.

Okay, so they were bringing babies? That were quite developed, like seven-month, eight-month-old fetuses. And what kind of rituals did you need those, do they need humans for? Okay, so within Satanism.

So there's what people hear about these high priests and high priestesses. And I was never a high priest within Satanism. I was a reverend.

So I conducted rituals and I was the spokesperson. So for someone to be involved in Satanism for that long and to eventually become, every time there's a ritual for you to do, to step up. Do you understand?

So a high priest within Satanism, internationally or locally. must have performed a certain amount of blood sacrifices and had to drink a certain amount of blood during rituals. So that's how they elevate to that level. So that's why they do it. Because I know a lot of people, even in the churches I go to to speak, they sometimes ask these questions about why.

Why is there animal sacrifice? And why is there human sacrifice? And why is there this thing?

It's about blood. And it's the same within Christianity. Blood is a currency. Do you understand?

So I can definitely say today that the blood of Christ is the highest currency that you get in the spirit world. That is the highest currency. But so also within Satanism, blood has a currency.

So the more pure the soul is that you are sacrificing, the higher the frequency or currency of that blood. I can't believe that stuff's happening here. I mean, if you really think about it, I already kind of knew.

Yes, everybody does, Josh. This is the thing. But see, this was part of the Satanic's church agenda was to whitewash that stuff and say that stuff never happens.

You also said last time, I think, or the first time it would be, that there was a cat killer in, I think it was the Cape Flats. Yes. That was going around killing cats.

Were you misleading about that story as well? No. Because you said you were trying to track them down or something. Correct.

So, see, that was a bad rap for Satanism. That was someone who was sloppy and left cats everywhere and claimed to be a Satanist. And I can definitely say today they were not a member of that organization.

But, you see, there were two people high up within the organization who got very concerned because the news covered it. And said that we can't, and this was exactly the point of the organization, is to... To come out and say, no, but Satanism, we don't slaughter cats. We don't do that stuff. And I mean, because every, if you want to call them legit Satanists, who has ever partake in animal sacrifices and that type of thing, they don't leave traces behind.

There are people in the police force, right, that were also members of the sort of African-Spanish church, that if they would come on a crime scene, and they were the first ones to call, if there were any occult symbols, if there were any traces or books, they would remove it before the police would arrive, not to implicate Satanism. And there was a case where this guy went and he asked his family. And there was a policeman who came and he removed two things from that scene.

I interviewed a lady called Nicole Engelbrecht. Okay. And I think she wrote a book or told a story about this. So you say this person killed his family with an axe. He did.

Is this quite a well-known story? Yes. So you're saying that police removed evidence from that scene?

Not the police. Someone who was linked to the police. Okay.

Okay. And eventually called the police to come. Okay.

Because this guy was not a member of the South African Hispanic Church. His girlfriend was. Okay.

Okay. So they weren't sure if it was her books or her symbols in his room. But that was removed before forensic teams arrived, etc. Again. So that Satanism doesn't get that bad rap.

So what I'm saying is this stuff has been going on for years. And it is going on still in this country and around the world. But it's been covered up.

And it's not a conspiracy theory. I was part of that agenda. We had meetings about this stuff all the time in the African Satanic Church.

So this is why there was illegal, and again, blackmail. I mean, I can go into... all the stuff that that was directed at me not to be able to talk and make videos.

What other rituals were you guys doing? So we've talked about sacrifices of animals and potentially definitely humans but... So I was very involved in satanic ritual ab***. Okay, so I don't know if you want to bleep that out as well because your video can get removed from YouTube if you say satanic ritual ab***.

Okay. Okay, so call it SRA. Okay.

And then people can fill in the gap. Okay, yeah. Okay, cool.

The own researcher. So satanic ritual is rituals where people get tortured You basically torture people until there's actual blood flowing from them And do they agree to participate? Some do and some don't So some you would tell them if you want to stay in this organization After you've betrayed us this is what you're going to have to do And what kind of abuse like what kind of torture do they do?

Whipping people, tying people up for long periods of time How long? Two hours, three hours. The one person I remember was like a day.

So yeah, and it's it's basically to keep people in line. Jeez. So, okay, so...

I'm sorry. I know this is a lot. No, no, it's okay. I mean, I kind of expected this kind of stuff, but at the same time, I didn't know how honest you were gonna be because you held back so much on the previous episode. I had to.

Yeah. Yeah. Um, so there was... And is that kind of the worst of the rituals that you guys would do? That I was involved in, yes.

Okay. So you were the leader. You guys were doing all of these rituals. You mentioned there's a lot of powerful figures within South Africa. Is there anyone that you can talk about?

Well, not by name. Okay. Because, see, this is the thing.

And it was never my intent, even when I left and when I had my encounter. It was never my intent to expose people. Do you understand?

Because again, we're not fighting against people. Do you understand? We are not.

The fight is not against physical people. So, and my point is just that if I can be saved, if I can be redeemed after doing all those things, anybody can. And I also think what a lot of people, and especially Christians, don't understand.

Because I had for a very long time people saying, but why? Why would God save you? Why would Jesus have a personal meeting? with you what what i have to understand there was no way for me to ever have any such an experience in any other way i wasn't a person that was unhappy in my life i actually thought at that time i'm happy because i have money i have cars i have two harley davidson's i have all the cocaine i wanted um so i was in a happy good place do you understand according to if you would ask me three years ago Rian, are you happy?

I would have said, I'm living the life. Do you understand? So at the same time, though, because the church was so public, thousands and thousands of people around the world were praying for me and my salvation.

So the only way for God to show up was the way that it happened. And you honestly still get people that they're praying to the same God as what I pray to now. But it's almost like they doubt how powerful God is and how amazing God is, because he certainly is, and how powerful the blood of Christ is. And the thing is, I didn't at that time even believe that God exists or that Jesus Christ actually exists as a savior. Do you understand that?

So the way it happened, I mean, it was a complete, I was in complete, obviously, shock at that time. I remember the second interview I did with you That was literally a week after I came out It was so soon, yeah And I was very raw And I was very tender and stuff And at that time I still dealt with Going into shops And you see your face on three covers of newspapers It was everywhere at the time, eh? And you get ridiculed And people send you From the satanic side People send you death threats And, and, and, and So today I obviously can see why I'm how that fits into the bigger plan.

But yeah, it was quite intense, very intense time. So before we get to the stuff that happened after you left, right, which we've kind of talked about a little bit, but what else is there? Because there's no way of researching this. There's no way I could do preparation for this because I don't know what you were holding back, right? So we've talked about rituals.

We've talked about there's a lot of powerful people that you can't really name in Satanism around South Africa. What else was going on that you couldn't talk about? So... Yeah, I think, again, mostly the rituals.

What I couldn't talk about either was the security when it comes to internet stuff, like what is really happening. Because, again, certain people that were very involved with a big cell phone company in this country as well, they could hack into people's cell phones and computers and stuff. Again, other powerful people who weren't in Satanism.

So they could do that. If we look at things like the healing industry, I mean, which again, I'm not saying the healing industry is satanic, but there were certain people that were in the healing industry. I don't know if they still, to be honest, but they would come to the rituals and bring needles and things that were used on patients.

And again, it's to further, to wider, to bigger, because to be honest with you, a lot of Satanists, especially the ones who are quite fur in, they really want to see the Antichrist. being coming into the earth to be able to rule here that that is one of the main things um so because a lot of people still ask but why why do people do this stuff why do they because they they really believe that um lucifer is the guy who got the bad rap who fell from heaven he's going to rule here he's supposed to if we serve him we have power here this is the thing it's all about power and people are so blinded by what is really going on if I look at the time I was doing psychic work, right? And you work with these angels and spirit guides, those things, and you see them and you see into the spirit world and stuff. And I really thought I was seeing things accurately. And then when I left the satanic church and I left satanism, and during that nine-month period where I went through deliverance, myself.

I had to go for the deliverance and people refer to it as exorcism, whatever. When I went through that, that stuff suddenly stopped. So suddenly I couldn't see things anymore and I was actually grateful. And then last year, when it became clear to me that this is the work I'm going to have to do now, I actually, I said to God, look, I don't know if I can do this and you will have to send people my way, et cetera.

But would you please show me what the spirit world really looks like, if it's the same as what I saw it. And it was, it's not the same as now. Everywhere I go, I see things.

It's only when I do certain work for people and when I allow Jesus Christ to set people free. But when that veil was removed for five minutes, for me to actually see what's going on around us all the time, it's shocking. And again, I don't...

I'm not converting people. I don't want to, I'm not here to convert people. You're sharing your experience.

Yeah. To Christianity, it's your choice, but whatever else you choose, know what you're choosing. That is what I'm saying. And what did you, what did you see, right? You said there's a spiritual wall.

What's on the other side of that wall? A wall. Sorry, what did you ask?

What's on the other side of that wall? The spiritual wall. The veil.

Yeah. Okay. So everything in the spirit world, is interlinked with earth. So when I'm saying that, it means like around us.

So there is a constant, constant battle between the devil and God and between demons and God's children constantly all the time. So everything on the physical earth is observed by the spirit world all the time. Okay. And I'm not saying that now. everybody needs to be scared, okay?

Because that's certainly not, this is the beautiful thing. We don't have to be if we know what our authority is. But I was so blinded and deceived by what I was involved in that I didn't realize this is actually what's going on and that it's that real, do you understand? Because you hear things in movies and you hear people talk and you hear other Christians talk about it and like, you know, whatever, you're schizo, you know, things like that. When I actually saw it, for that five minutes.

I could not not do what I'm doing at the moment because it's extremely real. It's very real. We are literally living in the time of revelations at the moment. We are.

And it's because it explains why the world looks the way it does. And what I'm trying to say here as well, I'm not here to convert people. They can believe whatever they believe. I know what I've seen.

I know what I see in people that come to me every day that's oppressed by demons, that's oppressed by demonic forces and stuff. And that is reality. That is my reality and what I've seen.

And like I said earlier, at the end of the day, it's not us doing it. It's not us doing that work. This is God that's doing the work.

And God certainly will do that work for everybody. You don't even have to be a Christian to be delivered. Do you understand?

You also don't have to be perfect. At the end of the day, Jesus wants your heart. God wants your heart. That is what is important.

But sadly, people open doorways to things to come and oppress them. And this is what I'm seeing every day. And what is also sad to me is that a lot of churches is completely ignorant that this is going on. And they would say things like, yeah, we don't really want to focus on the devil. I agree because we shouldn't focus on the devil.

We should just know the realities of what is going around. As Christians, we're supposed to know what our foundation in Jesus Christ is and that we have authority. Another thing that's very interesting, and I never understood this way back in the satanic church.

There were two people. that were in schools, one in a private school and one in like a public primary school, who also did a lot of the rituals and stuff. And at one stage, the focus was very much to hook young people in so that they can become involved in Satanism.

And the two teachers both said the same thing. They said that at school, some children that they're throwing astral thoughts at were very open to it. And they could influence their way of thinking, etc., etc.

And then some children had this like a ring of fire around them, and like you can't penetrate them. And then when we figured it out, it's like those were the children that parents were actually praying for, that those children were covered in the blood of Jesus. So no witchcraft, no Satanist, nothing could actually penetrate those kids. And today, as I'm sitting here, That is the power of what that is. And because of my experience that I had with Jesus Christ and the love, and I've said this in many interviews, the love that I actually experienced, how can I not follow him?

There is no other choice for me. Do you understand? So the amount of love that I experienced in that moment that knocked me literally off my feet, and I still can't tell you whether it was five minutes.

or two hours, or how long that was. And I never had that encounter with Jesus again, ever. I mean, I know Jesus is real, and I do hear the Holy Spirit talking to me. That is how I hear it. But it's not like Jesus is in my house the whole day, and we have conversations.

And I think that's, again, the misconception that people have. But because of that one encounter, there was absolutely no choice. And that's where I'm still today. That's who I follow.

I am a follower. I'm a disciple. I just never imagined, even two years ago, after I got out of Satanism, that I would be helping people today to get out as well. I didn't even thought of that. I, again, like I said, I thought at the time, I'm going to get as normal as possible job now.

And yeah, I don't see you doing a nine to five at a desk. And it's also funny. Before this interview, you were saying like, you're not going to cry today. And you're not necessarily crying, but I can see every time you bring this up, as you brought it up last time, you get so emotional about it.

And it really does about that encounter that you had, right? And for someone like me, who isn't religious, it's so hard for me to grasp these things. No, completely.

You know? Yeah, I understand. But when I look at you as someone that isn't religious, And I see how it touches you and how that one specific moment, every time you mention it to me, brings a tear to your eye or makes you emotional.

It's kind of hard to deny in some way that something happened, you know? And again, it's up to people. This is the thing.

Because I think there was a time where I felt I have to justify it or convince people. But it's not. I don't care. This is the thing.

I care about a lot of other things, but I don't care whether people believe me or not. I tell people if you doubt my salvation, I doubt the Holy Spirit in you. I really do.

I doubt the Holy Spirit in Christians who doubt my salvation. Okay, so that's the first thing. The other thing is the encounter I had.

I don't actually, Josh, I really, I don't care whether people believe it or not, because that doesn't matter. If people, and again, once you see what is really going on, your focus is not going to be on who's got tattoos, who's doing what sin, who's doing, because there's very big things to be focusing on. So I think we talked about that encounter last time, right?

Yes. Where you were in... I think at the time you were in the satanic church, right? And you were performing a very...

No. Where were you at the time? So this is the other thing. I wasn't performing a ritual.

I was about to. Okay. So if you want me to walk you through that...

Yeah. So you said, okay, so you were about to perform a ritual. And if I remember correctly, you said you had never done this ritual before. It was a very, I don't know how to say it, but powerful ritual. Yes.

Like only specific people... can do. So, I mean, if you want to get into that a little bit more. Sure, why not?

Is there any details that you left out last time? Yes. Okay.

Yeah. Because if there wasn't, then there was... No, there was. Not in terms of what happened, but in terms of why. Yes, certainly.

So maybe get into that a bit more. Yeah. So the day that we're talking about, or the night, was the 24th of May 2022. Okay, when I performed or wanted to do this.

But A week or two leading up to this, there was a meeting, again, of the church council, and they said, look, because of connections they had to international Satanists that were also quite high up, there's something that has to be done to see whether the Antichrist has been born and is living on earth somewhere at the moment, and to see how far we are along in terms of the agenda, the satanic agenda. internationally. So every satanic organization that links to each other has one or two people right at the top, which a lot of those people I never met.

I'm talking about the overseas one, certainly the local ones. But they congregate with each other. They don't actually talk to the people lowest.

So in the church council, there was a meeting, and two of the church council members said, this ritual will have to be performed to see the person that has experience with sight. With anything that's psychic or seeing in the past, they're going to ask that person to do it. So inside Africa and in Satanism, that was me, right?

So I said, okay, cool, I'll do that. So that was the intent of it. All right. So what happened is on the night of question, I went to the satanic church. I made sure that there's not going to be anybody else.

I said, I need the inside temple for myself to do this ritual. So I... went, there's a pentagram that you move around and you light a candle at each point for that.

So I got that far. There's a gong that I hit. And then this, now still we are at the beginning stages. The whole room lit up, like as if lights are switched on from the side, which there wasn't, there wasn't.

And that part of the church was dark. The only way to let that part up was through with candles. So I thought someone is My very first thought was someone is either spying on me or playing a prank or whatever.

And I think I said this. I actually thought there's a demon or a person playing a prank on me. So as I turned around, that's when I saw him. That's when I saw, firstly, the outlines of this figure.

And he started walking towards me. And he became more and more visible. And then I asked him, who are you?

And he said to me, Yeshua of Nazareth. So then I was still in that thing. And we talked about this. So I didn't at first believe it. And I said, prove it.

And again, that's when he flooded me with his love. So, and I stayed in his presence for a while. And it was just, I was completely on the ground.

And I... couldn't actually look up any further. Again, I can't tell you, and I know this doesn't make sense.

I can't tell whether that was five minutes or longer. But I walked out, I didn't do the actual ritual that I was supposed to, I was in complete shock and denial. And I thought I'm going insane.

That was for a long time my mind. So I walked out to the car. I think I smoked there for a while, I probably smoked half a packet of cigarettes or something. And I drove home.

And I was exhausted. I was drained as in like, I can't explain to you. So that was for about a two day period.

And then one morning, it was like 3am in the morning. I got woken up with a voice and said, go to the beach. And that's when I started having conversations with God about things. And a lot of things about my life, a lot of things about the world, a lot of the things about why I am where I was at that time.

So I can just sit here today and say, number one, it's a miracle I'm alive sitting here. That is God. Do you understand? It's a miracle that I didn't kill another person or myself in the process.

That is God's grace. And I know people are tired of me talking about God's grace, but people have no idea how much God loves this world. Like, it's insane.

We can't fathom it with our mind of how much love he has for us, for this world. And that really, He does love everybody. And this is part of my prayer every day. If I can just love people as much as God loves them, I don't care who they are, where they come from, and what they've done, even to me, we should love people.

That will already solve so much, really. Like, if we can love other people like God loves us, if we can, if you want to show people God. you must show them love that's how to do it i think a lot of the problems in today's society is is is greed you know at the center of it and i always i try i mean i always don't always get it right but i always try to to lead with love and kindness and obviously sometimes i have my weak moments and yeah but i just i wish more i wish people were you had that as the core value, you know, it's just like to be kinder to each other.

Yes. And again, that's what I'm trying to do. Even, even I'm in, I'm involved with hectic, very, if you want to call it grim and dark work at the moment.

I still want to focus on love. I still want to show people God's love. I want to ask you a question and I don't mean this in an insulting way, right? With that ritual that you did, where you had that encounter. Were there substances involved?

No, no. So interesting. And I'm not sure if I asked you that last time. You didn't. I thought I'd ask you this time.

No, you didn't. So I had quite a hectic cocaine problem for, I would say, almost two years. So this actually doesn't even, I don't think it really connects unless I can probably give God the credit for that. Although I was still a Satanist at the time when I gave drugs up, when I went cold turkey.

So, yeah. Early, it was my birthday, right, in 2022. Well, it's my birthday every year. But at my birthday in 2022, this was about two months before that encounter.

We, with some friends, did a lot of cuckoo and one of my friends passed away. That night? Yeah, because of an OD.

And that shook me to the core. And even though I was still a socialist at the time, I immediately went... I'm called turkey with that. Were you there when it happened?

Yes. Yes. That was quite dramatic. And that's probably one of the things I regret till today. I mean, I have a lot of regrets.

I really do. And that's also something I pray about a lot, all the regrets I have. Yeah, there was a, I would say, almost three year period, but especially two years where, especially from, I would say, early 2020 till about my birthday in 2022, where I had a gram of in my boot every day. And again, I'm not, I'm not saying that that excused a lot of the things I did.

And I completely hear your question. Because yeah, also some people asked me about that experience I had with Jesus, if there was any other thing involved like marijuana or... No, certainly not. I think you did mention psychedelics.

Yes, but that's something I did also, even before Satanism. But there was no part of substances in that encounter. No, definitely certainly not.

There was red wine. To be honest, yes. There was a glass of red wine that I actually had, which you do at every satanic ritual, by the way.

You have a glass of red wine on the altar and you actually cut part of your skin open and you put blood into it. And if there's other people with you, they all do it and everybody drinks from the same glass. That's also part of it.

So if I have to be 100% honest, there was a glass of red wine. But no, there wasn't any other substances or anything. And again, I was almost two months, just over two months clean when that actually happened. And sad to say, but a lot of people in Satanism do.

Do you think more so in Satanism? Yes. What do you think about it? No, because if you think about indulgence, that is the religion says indulge.

There's no other religion. That says have sex. Yeah, yeah.

Satanism encourages it. Yes, absolutely. It really, really does. And a lot of people that we used to hook in initially, we would use things like and sex and things and say, if you join us, this is the stuff that you can have access to. So it was every way at every party, at every ritual.

My very first interview with you that we had. I did drugs in your bathroom before the interview. No, you did not. Yes, Josh, I did. Really?

Yes. Because we did a lot of interviews and things at that time. Yeah. Every time before I did an interview, I would take a line of s*** and I would go on camera.

And you have confidence and you can talk about things. Yeah. So you got heavily addicted and your friend passed away.

And then since then you've been sober. Yes. Okay.

Yeah. So. the 19th of february and i it's actually beautiful that it falls on my own birthday so i mean my sobriety so the 19th of february this year was two years and in terms of like satanic panic and and i know a lot of people look at hollywood for example and think there's a lot of rumors i don't know if they're rumors if they're not of people using satanism or the illuminati to kind of uh make their way through the industry quicker or you know they say a lot of people like sell their souls for the industry or is is any of i've never really looked into it but is any of that true so a lot of it is um a lot of it is true um but there's a there's some things that's completely misrepresented and people don't have all the facts of how exactly that works but what was the first part of the question sorry was just that people oh satanic panic yeah that was the first i wanted to say something about that yes so if we look at satanism specifically in south africa um and i'm talking about 80s 90s okay that period because there was certainly satanism before then but most of the documented work that's written by christian people and by other authors and by a retired policeman was from the 80s and 90s so yes The way that Satanism existed in the 80s and 90s, it existed a certain way. The way in which people will gather and find each other, that was a certain way, right? But that information, unfortunately, is not relevant today.

Because the way that Satanism has changed and evolved in the last 20 years is vastly different. And it's because of social media. It's because of...

internet it's because of all those things um it's much easier to find people now it's much easier to organize a gathering it's much easier to influence people and i'm not saying that social media on the internet is evil because we can use it as a beautiful powerful tool but it's very much used by the enemy by the devil to deceive people as well and i know for a fact that there's games and certain platforms that people use and children use where there are literally satanists you trolling on there trying to connect with children to lower them into things by using certain symbols in the background of games and things like that it is a reality so so that you say like children right are they looking to trying to convert them into satanism or they're looking to use them for both things both why do you think we have such a human problem um you Go into that a bit more. So the other person again that we mentioned earlier. Yes. Okay.

So Oprah Winfrey had a school here in South Africa. Oprah Winfrey School for Orphans quite a while ago. It was years ago.

He was very much involved with that as well. And the children disappeared from there. It was very much involved.

Was this a scandal? Like was this a known thing? Yeah, go and Google it.

So if I Google missing kids from Oprah's preschool, it will come up. In South Africa, it will come up. So what happened to those kids?

You guys. They were used in sacrifices? Really?

Okay, I don't know if any of this is true. I haven't, I don't know anything about this. But if that is true, that's shocking. Okay, so I have, I've not seen that.

Why those kids? But I heard, I'll get to it. This is what I've heard from people who knew the perpetrators very well. And this is one of the founding members of the South African Hispanic Church and the person who funded a lot of the legal stuff.

That guy was up to some really dark stuff, eh? So the children that disappeared from that specific school. A lot of them were never found.

And if I ask you, if I sit here and ask you, how many children do you know that go missing in this country? And we're not talking about the world yet. We're talking about this country. How many children goes missing in this country that are never found?

Their bodies are never found? I think the majority. It's interesting because I had Gaten McKenzie on my podcast for the last episode I did. And he...

came on to speak about the Jocelyn Smith case, right? And I forgot the exact numbers, but I think it's more than 50, like more than 70%, I think, even of kids that are taken or never found. And the ones that are found generally weren't lost in the first place. They just kind of wandered off, went missing and made their way back eventually. But there was another thing that I wanted to ask was that, Audrey Norton, right?

So she was the co-One of the other co-founders. One of the other co-founders of the Satanic Church, right? In South Africa.

Yes. What was your relationship like when you left the church? Okay, so I want to mention a few things here, because I've got her permission to say certain things as well, now that we're connected again. Alright, so this came- this came out almost a year ago when she opened up to me so about a month before i had my encounter with jesus christ audrey was already planning to get out of the satanic church out of satanism she's out as well yeah but she didn't tell me she didn't because she was scared of how i was going to respond the reasons she wanted to get out and i can talk about this today and it's so it's so freeing to be able to talk There were people in Johannesburg in Gauteng who were getting one of the chapters of the South African Satanic Church, trying to get the chapter going.

And there was a person there who was supposed to spearhead this. And he had a friend and also someone that was also a member in the South African Satanic Church. So they had to come to Cape Town for whatever reason.

And Audrey offered to host them so that they can stay over, which they did. And this guy is also a professional photographer, et cetera. So at the one dinner at Audrey's house one night, we were all sitting around the table, including the people from Joburg, and he had one of those very big iPads that would, you know, not the normal one that I have, but the ones that fall. They stand on a stand.

A little keyboard. And as he went through some stuff, Audrey saw certain pictures of children that he took and stuff they were busy with. uh kids in south africa yes okay okay and she were she just found out she was pregnant audrey just found out she was pregnant so obviously it hit her hard yes yeah yes so she started making plans on how to get out safely because she started seeing what people were actually involved in and this is the thing people think that because we were co-founders and leaders we knew everything that people were doing no you can never know i mean what people we just saw what happened at rituals that we attended right in our engagements with people and what other people told us but people were doing a lot of things and the sad part is we went along along with a lot of things and said that well that that's that person's personal life it's okay you know today i'm like i mean i'm shocked It's like there was a time of my life that was just a blur with all these things. But coming back to Audrey.

So Audrey then wanted to get out already. So Audrey didn't want to initially leave because of a religious conviction or a reason like that. And she still stayed. So. I then had my experience, which I told her about.

And she just kept quiet. She didn't criticize me or anything. And she said to me at the end of the day, this is my life, my choice, what I want to do. So she's not going to judge me. And she doesn't know what to make of that experience.

But she knows me well enough to know that this is very real to me. I won't be lying and making it up. And she said she will support me as much as possible. And she still... She was still involved in, obviously, in the South African Satanic Church.

And then I left. And what then happened was the way that people bombarded her in the Satanic Church. And again, the same people from Johannesburg, people from the chapter in Port Elizabeth about me and saying that she's not allowed to be friends with me.

She's not allowed to have contact with me. And for her, a light went on. And so, like, is this how much my life is being controlled?

And then she got legal people involved and she also stepped out about four or five months later. It's interesting that the two leaders are the ones that stepped away. Earlier on, you mentioned blackmail, right? So is there anything that people have against you that they could use?

This is the beautiful thing. I hope they do. Because if they do, people will see what is happening inside Satanism.

So what kind of stuff would they have on you? Pictures of me snarling. of people's bodies, sexual things that happened, those things.

There was a picture of me drinking blood out of a human skull. So again, like... A real human skull? Yes.

So what? Do you know who that skull belonged to? I do. So point being... Is it an open case?

I'll come back. Okay, sorry. Sorry. So point being, release it.

I was a Satanist. That is what Satanists do. So this doesn't have a hold on me.

Nobody's going to use my past to blackmail me. Do you understand? Plus the foundation of Jesus Christ that I stand on and my identity in Christ that I know I have. That is my protection.

And my advocate once said something very interesting. When these... Intradicts and seasoned assistings came. She said, you know what?

If this does go to a court, they will have to show up in person. And they'll expose themselves to an extent, yeah. You were asking about the skull.

Who did it belong to? So the skull was taken from a lab in a university. So I don't actually know who the, but I know one of the students. The bodies are donated for science.

Yeah. Yeah. So I know that that specific skull, that is where I was in the picture drinking from that skull, that skull was taken from the University of Stellenbosch by an old student. Okay. So I don't know the person's name that this...

No, sorry. No, you don't need to... Okay, yeah. I was just wondering if it was someone that was passed away or killed.

So a lot of the time I know at the universities, my friend was a doctor, the bodies are donated. like people can choose to donate their body to science or people like prisoners that bodies never claimed by family members are donated to science and medical research and people to practice on and yeah of course yeah okay i mean i think that covers about most of it i think um i mean is there anything else that you want to say that that we haven't really covered that you think is important um no i think in terms of just i think this was this was a very good looking at the last two years of what happened afterwards. Amazing. Well, thank you so much, Rian, for coming down today. You're very welcome.

It was long overdue. Yes, I know. I know. For the third episode.

And thank you all for watching. I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Wide Awake Podcast. And I'll see you all very soon. I've got some documentaries coming out. I went to Orania.

I went to... I did another gang documentary, but this time it's a very positive one. So yeah, I'm excited to release those. And then, yeah, I'll see you guys very soon. Cheers.

Transcript for:Interview with Former Satanic Church Co-Founder

Transcript for:
Interview with Former Satanic Church Co-Founder