Transcript for:
Exploring the Life of Krishna

H har Krishna H har Krishna if someone wants to connect with Krishna really fast do you just say Krishna Krishna take her name radhakrishna that's why the people who live in vavan are blessed they say Rad Rad all the time if we speak about modern day vavan in vavan there is spots that are called as rasali this is where the rasaa happens every day and to honor that the whole place is closed by 7 because Krishna and Radha and the gopies will come at that time of the night and nobody can see them can you take us from his teenage up till the Mahabharat Krishna is an expert strategizer Krishna uses the pandas and the kavas as a pretext to wipe the earth clean of all those kings that are living adharmic He says those who believe that I am everything without one second break I will take care of them such a different energy in this part of the podcast even in my body I can feel we don't hear too much about the 36 years post the mahab could you give us the surface level story of what happened this is mentioned in the mahabharatam itself what happens is towards the end of the 18 days gandhari comes onto the battlefield the mother of the the mother of the coras when she's on the battlefield Krishna is behind her she turns to Krishna and she says so I curse you Krishna you will die by a hunter's arrow that is my curse to you Krishna receives that curse smilingly and he says Amma you shouldn't have cursed me I'll tell you why when it comes to to Krishna you study his entire life it's likely that you'll find yourself feeling more connected to one part of his life than the other parts absolutely and that's often a reflection of you yourself Krishna is a is a heartbeat in this country Krishna avataram final Avatar when Krishna comes for everybody it's the last J nobody who comes in contact with Krishna comes back into samsara chakra why did I get goosebumps right now you can be anything directed towards Krishna your life will change allow yourself to be soaked in Radha and Krishna they will take you to wherever you are meant to be whoever your is deata is they will find you and they will place you and if it is them then You' have already reached r [Music] r he's one of the most poetic guests that we've had on TRS ladies and gentlemen welcome to this janash to me special this Krishna special with the iconic poet that's entered all our lives Vin Varanasi absolutely enjoyed this podcast because many of us know the story of Krishna it was a recap with respect to the story but we went into very very deep spiritual esoteric tangents that are not very well understood about the story on this podcast we covered krishna's entire life life right from his birth right up till the point where this Vishnu avar finished his work in the Earthly realm if you're someone who wants to Deep dive into the subject of Krishna even further this is a 2024 update on TRS we've covered Krishna in so many episodes but we've never covered him in so much detail and with so much depth if speaking about detail and depth you've got to remember the name V Varanasi this is sequel episode to the dashh AAR episode or the 10 Vishnu aars episode that we did some time ago you're going to absolutely enjoy this one if you enjoy any of us sanatan D related episodes It's V Varanasi on TRS [Music] we're with the new found allar the new found Superstar big words the magical voice that we found in 2024 Vin Varanasi is back on TRS thank you for having me how are you brother good in a Zone ready to welcome the avataras that are waiting to emerge okay we covered uh the Vishnu a and the story of the Vishnu puran yes in the last episode and we stopped at the parshuram avar yes this is where we reeg that story um because this is a janmashtami special uh I think we're going to be a lot more focused on uh Krishna bhagan sure but we also have to mention ramj a little bit of course uh where would you like to begin this conversation uh personally for me I would just love to mention aspects of the ramayan because that's a whole Topic in itself absolutely abolutely and it's a JM toi special yes so I will let you begin this story and these Concepts Wherever You Wish thank you um so instead of treating them as two sequential avatars maybe what we can do is actually let Krishna emerge fully Rama will come through him that's that's my belief so before we begin can I request you to chant a pray sure okay whatever you wish absolutely [Music] sure beautiful so it's it was so interesting I have to tell you how this episode itself um happened um when a few days ago when you guys had reached out saying you know thinking of this janmashtami special and we should do it there were a lot of things lined up in the calendar at that time and I was just thinking okay how how do we make this how do I you know squeeze this in but I I haven't yet spoken on Krishna at Great length so I want to make it happen I was just thinking about it and I said okay let me figure it out I'll sleep over it the next day unknown to a friend or are unknown to me a friend sends this message she doesn't know about any of this context in which she had a dream and she said I was sitting in a rama Temple and I was speaking on Hanuman and Hanuman was listening and Krishna came from behind and he tapped my shoulder and he said you never talk about me this is not fair so I apparently in that dream I turned and I started speaking to Krishna about Krishna now I found this very interesting because it in some senses for me this is this is Krishna aatar that when Krishna comes everything else merges in to him and um I think that's the whole premise on which we can also begin to speak about today because this avataram is fundamentally very different uh there is something about this avataram which makes it stand out to a whole new level which we'll explore uh in the course of this conversation every part of it is special if you look at the context of the avataram of when it comes if you look at the the book the gram where this avataram is spoken about so let's look at since we're it's a janmashtami special right let's let's start off looking at when do we celebrate janmashtami janmashtami as we know as per the lunar calendar comes in shanam in the month of Shan in the dark half ashtami that is in the Krishna Paka astami Krishna Paka ashtami is always dedicated to kalava all the dark hals are all the ashtami that come in the Krishna pakam are kalashtami what is an ashtami ashtami is the Eighth Day so the Eighth Day of the ascending or the descending Moon so either on the way to Pima or between Pima which is full moon to awasia which is New Moon now very interestingly the the whole concept of ratri of night has a lot of power in sonat Dharma there are supposed to be four phenomenal nights in the whole year where the power of the Divine becomes extremely accessible so these four nights are listed out as kalaratri one is called kalaratri this is the night of deepawali also the night before deali which in the north is called ch deali ch Diwali and in the south is called as naraka chaturdashi this night is supposed to be extremely powerful for any kind of sadh particularly for Davi sadhana so kalara is the first the second is maharat maharat is the night of mahashivaratri that is when we all know that that night is powerful for sadhana that's why actually even coming to deepawali many Traditions stress on doing Lakshmi Puja at midnight and not finishing it in the evening you have to finish you have to do lakmi Puja at midnight and there's a process where alakshmi is removed so you sweep the house at midnight which you don't otherwise do because traditionally once the evening lamp is lit you don't sweep and mop the home anymore so but this is a practice that's um very specific to deepawali midnight on Main Diwali or midnight before so kalaratri is considered to be both the night before and the night of DEA so that is the night of chaturdashi the 14th day and Amasia so either or like we say inat Dharma do more it gives you more fruit so one is kalaratri second is maharat the third one is called as mohar ratri MOA means delusion MOA moar ratri is the night or is the name given to the night of janmashtami because this night is phenomenal but I'll complete the fourth one and then come back to this night the fourth one is called as daruna dhuna is the night of aketa this night is supposed to be one of the most powerful in the year where you can actually experience Davi so there is a specific suktam in The Vedas that is called as ratri suktam those who initiated into this and those who kind of you know do their sadh in a way that it culminates on any of these four nights in history there have been examples of people who have had sakshat K who have actually seen the goddess on these nights so it's interesting that these four nights janmashtami features in them because the night of janmashtami is spectacular when does the fourth night happen akaya which is when akaya comes um corresponding to the English calendar around April May okay corresponding to the lunar and and solar calendars in the month of vishaka that is the third day of course AKA like dantas has become a day about buying wealth so most people forget that it's actually a day of intense sadh and a night of intense sadh akaya also gets that name because what sadh you do on that day gives you akaya Palam endless fruit so hence akaya but that's a different discussion so coming back to moar ratri the night of delusion so the night that he chooses to arrive itself is a powerful one ashtami the eth day like I said on one hand is always dedicated the Kal astami the dark ashtam when I say dark it's in terms of the phases of the moon so this comes in the dark half of the month because it's heading towards Amasia that ashtami is always sacred to kalaba now in addition to this this is a night that something spectacular happens most of us are familiar with the birth of Krishna the story that he is born to vasudeva and daki on one side and soon after his miraculous birth in the jail because that's where they were jailed he's taken across the yamuna vuda takes him across and there he is swapped with a baby girl that is born there here is the first indication in the story something phenomenal about this avataram this is an avataram where Krishna and shaki both are born because Davi and Vishnu as we discussed earlier are considered to be brother and sister she is called as padmanabha sahi sh Krishna sodari she's supposed to be the sister of Krishna or of Vishnu so they come together they are twins now this is the linear story that we know but this is the beautiful thing the whole aspect of krishna's arrival is not an ordinary one there is something magical happening in every part of the story look at this context where he appears he appears I will not say born because there is no birth for parap purusha but when he is when he takes form he immediately shows Dak and vuda his swam he shows them with shanka chakra Gad Padma he shows them his swup as Vishnu and there they praise him they extol him and then he converts himself into a little boy so from the little boy they saw the swarupam and it went back as a little boy Wasa puts him into that basket and Krishna instructs him saying take me onto the other side of yamuna can I can I pause you here just a little bit for story context yes who was GS okay sure like let's rewind this a little bit and then come back to this point sure absolutely so veva and daki uh when they get married daki has a cousin brother by named kamsa kamsa has this he's very fond of daki and he's the one who's conducted this wedding in huge lavish Grand way but post the wedding as soon as the wedding is over when he's taking them for a procession that is when he hears an akashavani a voice in the heavens that says the eighth child of this woman is going to be you know is going to be responsible for your death so kamsa's first reaction is to he wants to kill his sister so it's vasuda who implores him and says don't look the the danger to you is through the eighth child right so we will give you the eighth child and why eighth child we'll give you all the children that we have so that there is absolutely no danger to your life so kamsa instructs for them to be put into a jail Wasa and dii his cousin sister and her husband and initially when the first few children are born also he doesn't even take them he doesn't because he knows what he's been told that the eighth child is the problem child literally so he's only interested in killing that child he has nothing to do with the other children but the beauty of Krishna Kata starts here most of us go through this part we read through it in Great in a great hry but kamsa starts kamsa is sitting happily he knows only that eighth child will cause me some trouble when it comes he's not even thinking about anything he's carrying on with his work it's at that time that naruni comes and he says look the voice said the eighth child but who knows if it will be eight combined with the other seven that could cause trouble so how are you letting them be you should kill all of them as well now this looks like a very gruesome thing to do no killing seven innocent children or the children that have come before the seventh one doesn't get killed so kamsa immediately acts on this order and he orders for the children so far that have been born to be killed what a gruesome act But Here Lies the idea the idea of this why does Narada come and instill or instigate such a thing because he wants kamsa to start thinking about the eighth child thinking about Krishna is the whole key to unlocking the mystery of the world of Krishna you anybody who comes in contact with Krishna they're thinking about him good bad is secondary whether they're in love with him whether they hate him doesn't matter kamsa gets MTI the same kamsa who had his his own sister imprisoned and tried to kill all of her children and tried to have the eighth child killed ultimately finds Deliverance at the hand of that hands of that very eighth child because he becomes obsessed he keeps thinking when will the child be born when will the child be born this is Yoga when you are constantly thinking thinking thinking kamsa becomes a category of yogis called as Bay Yogi he is a yogi not through happiness or through Joy but he is a yogi by on account of his fear Rana falls into the same category in the Ramana raana is also constantly thinking when will Rama come when will Rama come or who is this who has come on behalf of Rama and has burnt all of Lanka that is Hanuman so when fear enters but that fear is about that Supreme concept that Supreme ideology then even that will give you Deliverance so that is what is indicated through kamsa so he has them bound and on that phenomenal night Vasa when he writes the bhagavatam when he writes the the bhagavat puranam when he comes to this chapter he wants to show you everything that's there that is why he describes he begins saying bakam two words Adam extraordinary bakam baby boy but immediately after that he describes the swup of the baby boy it's a baby boy but his swam is Mahar k he has all of these rajanas all of these adornments all of the swam that is fitting the lord of the universe but he's a boy Vasa cannot control himself this is the difference between raram and Krishna aatar in raram the whole context is Rama pretends to be a man valmiki gives it away only in one place when he says the Lord of the universe was born as Calia son because valik could not contain that Joy but after that Rama is treated as a man in the Epic till rana's death there is a reason for that I'll come there later but in Krishna aaram the glory manifests from second number one he's already established that it's mahavishnu and there is no condition here in the case of ratar raana had a condition raana said I do not I should not die at the hands of a man so that condition has to be honored so to honor that Rama pretends to be the perfect man Krishna has no such conditions so he's come on this side of the road but this is the story we know that once Krishna appears like this and shows his parents his swup he tells them take me to the other side again I got to pause you a little bit uh there is something I have to say and there's also an Associated question yes how do we know the story of krishna's life where is it written okay sure do you want me to take that or do you want to uh you can even tell us that first sure again it's so interesting that you ask this now because the whole time in my head one thought has been running saying we haven't done a pranamam to the gram to the book from where all of this comes so krishna's story predominantly we find in the bhagavat puranam OR shat bhagavatam as it is known this book itself is extraordinary it's wrong to call it a book because it is very much the body of Vishnu bhagavat puranam has 12 chapters as we call 12 sandas Nam bhag if you add Omar to that you get 12 syllables the 12 syllables of the vasudeva mantram correspond to the 12 chapters of this book wow so the Mantra of vasudeva becomes a book that book takes a human form not a human form it takes a Divine form that form if you look at the commentaries on the bhagavatam they will tell you which chapter corresponds to which organ of the Lord it is extraordinary I'll give you an example the heart of bhagavatam comes in the seventh chapter saptam kandam the heart of bhagavatam meaning that for this entire book this is the heart this is thean theam is given to prad char there's a so this is this goes beyond poetry what they're trying to tell you is the heart of this entire vasuda tatwam of understanding the essence of Vishnu is in understanding the devote the heart of God is the devote that is why prad Char is thean Krishna Story the whole context of the bhagavatam comes in the 10th chapter what is the the basic backstory to the bhagavatam there is a phenomenal King parikhit Maharaj a descendant of the pandavas when parikan Maharaj sits down knowing that his life is going to leave him in seven days he's yearning for Moka he's yearning for release at this point Vasa son Shuka yogindra Shuka yogindra sits him down and for seven days at a stretch does the first ever bhagavat saptam that is seven days of bhagavat Kata at the end of it parikshit attains this is the premise of bhagavat but look at this premise this context itself he's he be the very beginning itself he says Krishna bhagan shuk Shuki yogindra tells parit Krishna is bhagavan but he doesn't tell you krishna's story up the 10th chapter because krishna's Kata requires a certain firmness it requires that the Atma must ripen only when there is ripening of the spirit within can we understand Krishna because at the end of nine chapters parik asks he says you've told me about various other leelas so like I said prad charitra comes narasimha naturally comes after that a host of bhagavat leelas come then he says tell me about Krishna Kata the second he says that shuk yogindra says now you have asked the question which you are ready for and he begins Krishna kaata which comes in the 10th chapter the dasham kandam where this comes as I said earlier each part corresponds to different organ of parap purusha the dasham scand the 10th chapter corresponds to the face of the Lord so if you have to look at any person essentially we establish connect with them through their face we may admire every other visible organ that we can see but we make eye contact to the face we gaze upon the face even for the Lord to look at that form so the what they mean by saying this is's saying that the entire essence of bhagavatam is in the 10th chapter and that is why when Krishna Kata begins over here it takes over a completely different look and shape for the person who's hearing it and for the person who saying it so this is the bhagavat puranam where the story that I just told you about Krishna being or taking form and then asking his parents this happens in matura from matura he asks them take me across the yamuna and take me to Gokul so that's where they go Gotta what's in the 11th and 12th chapter so the the bhagavatam continues um at the the very end of the dasham kandam so I I'll come to the 11th and 12th in just a bit the whole premise of the dasham kandam is this is the ultimate Krishna is the ultimate from here whatever is left for parikhit to internalize you see chapters talking about the Atma the nature of the Atma coming towards the last few chapters because krishna's charitram itself extends across these now Krishna Kata is the last portion that takes him ultimately towards his internal Journey various stories regarding Krishna from his birth but the the additional idea here is Krishna Kata is not contained only in the bhagavatam it also appears in Mahabharat them because portions that are given in great detail here there are mentioned in brief and other portions that you don't find too many references to here are expanded upon in the mahabharatam and subsequently other puranas so yes wow okay now I'm going to mention something that I have been wanting to say since the beginning of this episode sure it's almost unrelated to what you're saying but also adjacently related um possibly one of the guests that I enjoyed speaking to the most over the course of the whole podcast is n Oaker and N Oak's whole subject is the dating of the Indian epics yeah the ramayan and Mahabharat we also had a phenomenal guest named Rupa bhati whose episodes haven't been released yet uh she's working within that same subject studying the rig and trying to date uh India's history basically using astronomy sure um incredible podcast uh I'll shorten what I'm trying to say by mentioning that basically all of n oa's research and Rupa bti's research has led to understanding that the Mahabharat happened at the 5561 BC mark That's the dating of the Mahabharat okay uh and they say 36 years after the Mahabharat uh is when uh Krishna passed away which is about 5525 BC I believe okay yeah and uh they've also gone on to date the ramayan it's roughly around 12,000 BC all of their life's research has been about these two dates sure now that got me thinking that if you actually draw a line from 2024 right back up to 12,000 BC uh the Mahabharat which happens at 5561 BC is exactly at the midpoint between now and the ramayan H and then when you link it to the avars I think to myself that damn the way we look at Krishna is probably how the characters of the Mahabharat looked at Rama yes yes and Hanuman G absolutely um it also kind of makes me positively question that these were all based on real beings that were a part of our realm absolutely these stories are based on beings that were a part of our realm um and yet there's poetry associated with them yet there are massive granas written about these same characters how do you feel about this subject related to the dating of these epics I'd just love to know your opinion so it's um uh interesting that when we look at this Rama and Krishna sequentially most of us think that Sama came in tra Yuga Krishna came in dwapar Yuga but there are a host of puranas that say it's not in the same cycle of yugas that they came so any Maha Yuga what what we call as a Maha Yuga the combination of sat Yuga tra Yuga dwap Yuga and Kaluga four yugas put together together is one Maha Yuga so it's not that TR Yuga finished Rama came in TR Yuga and it's not that as soon as TR Yuga finished Krishna came in the same dwap it said that after one Maha Yuga in the next dwap Yuga is when Krishna incarnated so the numbers that you're giving suggests that there is that much of a gap between the two no it's not you know and the next thing began the next morning kind of a thing so there is a massive gap between the two like you said there are stories that connect that krishna's mother Yoda tells him about so Rama was very much um living and breathing in everybody's Consciousness by the time of krishna's arrival absolutely so it's again dates is a huge uh subject to go into uh you will also see timelessness of this because every time there is a mahay Yuga cycle there is a ram and there is a Krishna that comes there is a beautiful story in ramayana that says this where um Hanuman Rama asks Hanuman this is much after the pisham after Rama is coronated as king he tells um Hanuman sometime ago brahmadeva had taken the ring from me the ring that you gave to sitha when you went to Lanka searching for her and you sent a ring on my behalf which had ramam on it that ring was taken by brahmadeva he wanted it at some some point of time to keep it and worship with him I want you to go and bring that back so Hanuman goes when Hanuman goes to brahala and he asks him for it it's a very long story I'm condensing it brahmadeva tells him there is a pond in satyaloka where I am go to that pond and I'm worshiping the that ring inside the pond step into the pond and you can take it when Hanuman steps into that pond he sees like tons and tons of rings the whole river bed that whole Pond bed is covered with rings so he comes out confused and comes straight back to Rama and he says which one is the ring I didn't know which one they all look identical so Rama smiles and he says I did this to show you the timelessness of my Leela every time there is a new Yuga there is a ram aatar and every time that happens the same story enacts and brahmadeva takes the ring and keeps there so look how many ramaram have happened so it could also be that the dates that we're talking about are dating to one ram avataram the ones that came before we don't know again cyclic nature of time kalachakram as we call it so yeah okay now we can move on just wanted to set this kind of a context because this is a subject I'm obsessed with right uh and we've covered the philosophy on some episodes but at age 31 I feel like I'll be able to cover the philosophy even deeper now sure so let's go with the philosophy as well as the story again I will let you continue your uh storytelling now you use the word Obsession that's what Krishna avataram is about everybody becomes obsessed with him and that's the effect he still has on bhatara and be are not just within this country Krishna bti entails being obsessed with him that's why when you come to this realm you will see the story start to reflect how everybody loses their rational thought process when it comes to Krishna some something magical is always happening and it happens right from the time of his arrival to all the leelas that he does because he's communicating something so I I'll I'll because we're talking about his arrival or the birth the avataram we'll talk about that and then I'll explain more about this so the whole context is that this boy now can is not safe here because kamsa has this whole thing that he's going to kill the eighth child because the eighth child is threatening him so what does kamama want to do kamama wants to dispose of him so Krish gives vva his father the instruction saying take me to the other side of yamuna and there Place me in Nanda and yashoda's house a baby girl is born to them on the same night bring that girl here and put her in my place this is what veva is told to do and Vasa does As Told of course once people start writing about this portion their ecstasy comes through the kind of poetic descriptions that come out so matura is again in the banks of yamuna and the other side is Gokul as soon soon as he steps out Shan masam comes in varshu it is monsoon season so the river is in full Spate and it's raining above so as soon as he steps out with Krishna and his basket on his head adishesha comes to protect this little boy because he doesn't want the boy to get wet because that is the one that is Nar himself that reclines on him but as soon as they come to yamuna there's one beautiful version that says vuda looks at yamuna and he wonders how will I cross this River I mean imagine a river in full Spate at midnight on a night where it's pouring anyone would be daunted and to add to this fear the river is just Rising the river is rising because yamuna is trying to find a way to touch krishna's feet because this boy has just come and she wants to take his Blessing at the beginning of the avataram the second one of her water droplets falls on his feet she immediately Parts away and subdues herself so vva walks straight across and he reaches Gokul now here is where the rahasyam is many people don't know this we all think he goes there he swaps the baby girl and the baby boy and comes back that's not what happens on the other side of the river Nanda and Yoda Nanda is a Chieftain of a local tribe there Nanda nanda's wife Yoda they have a baby girl is what they think what they don't know is along with the baby girl Yoda gave birth to a beam of light so this story is not told in the bhagavat puranam it is told in other puranam what this version says is when vasudeva went and exch changed Krishna when he placed Krishna over there this Krishna and that beam of light merged what's the rahas here the rasum here takes us into a completely different world what we know is that Vishnu incarnates as Krishna Vishnu takes form as Krishna this is what we understand from the realm of Vishnu but the realm of Krishna extends Beyond this the realm of Krishna says that just like Vishnu has an eternal world called wunam where he is with mahalakshmi we spoke about this last time time just like Vishnu has this real Shiva has a kyasa Davi has a Manida every divine presence has their own Loca just like that Krishna has an eternal Loca which is called as goloka that's not goloka here on Earth that is gooka which is beyond brahmas beyond the universe for all the other avataram that narana takes it is only Vishnu in viun who comes and takes form for this avatara it is both of these who come together meaning Vishnu and viun and Krishna and goloka Vishnu and viun came to vuda and daki I told you right he showed his swup with shanka chakra Padma that is Vishnu in viun the other swarupam which is Krishna and goloka came as the beam of light to nandha and Yoda so both of them merged and this avataram is both of their merging together that is why if you see the names of Krishna one of the the names given to Krishna is nandas samaba the one who was born from nandha how can we say that based on the regular story we know technically nand and Yoda adopted him though they didn't know they were adopting him but that's not true he was born to them as well the whole idea is this avataram is Adam this is extraordinary this is something special and the stories keep highlighting that and they keep coming back to that so that is the entry into gokulam which marks a very different phase in krishna's life uh because now the whole and this also marks the difference in janmashtami in janmashtami celebrations janmashtami split across two days even now the first is the day of janmashtami which culminates in the Puja that happens at midnight because that is when he takes avatara that the next day so it's the next day that Nanda and Yoda when they wake up they realize oh there's a baby boy here and that's when there is an utsav in gokulam because there is an utsav in Gokul that day is called as Gokul astami so you will see janmashtami celebrations across the country roughly with these names only janmashtami will be different gokulashtami will be different so that happens the next day so I mean if you go to ravan you will see in Gokul the kind of Celebration there yes weren't they aware of the two babies being exchanged exactly good question how come they didn't know who was born to Nanda and yashoda Krishna is born on this side or Vishnu let's say is born on this side on the other side vishnu's sister like I mentioned whose name is Yoga Maya Maya shaki is born there by virtue of Maya being born nobody knows what's happening that's why they didn't even realize that they had a baby girl because Maya is like a blanket when Maya operates on his instruction everyone gets deluded delusion MOA the night that he came moar ratri so one thing connects to another and this yogamaya what happens vuda brings back this girl again the story does something phenomenal as soon as he brings back this girl it is a that point of time that suddenly all the quietness here disappears because when vasudeva was taking him magically the the chains that were binding him and they were those were released the guards that were keep Vigilant throughout they became sleepy all of this was when he was taking Krishna out so that news should not go to kamsa but the second vuda brought her back the girl cried the guards got up and news was immediately sent to kamsa why does this happen again looks like a very gruesome detail because kamsa comes and he tries to kill the baby girl he takes the baby girl and tries to smash her head on the stone what happens instead the baby girl slips out of his hands and goes into the sky and she says your killer is on the other side of yamuna and your killer will come for you this is the concept of bay yogam like I mentioned it gets instilled inside him because kamsa now goes back and he starts thinking my killer my killer my killer just replace the word killer with Krishna Krishna Krishna Krishna it becomes Nama japa what is your criteria for Moka your criteria is that you have to constantly think you have to be in that state of constant contemplation kamsa becomes that so kamsa sends a host of rakshasas now to Gokul and those form portions of Krishna lelas where he deals with these rakshasas that kamsa sends was he also AA himself who kamsa yes kamsa has um his own story associated with him of how he came to be a rakasa kamsa and his whole hatred for Krishna is a very interesting subject because his is not a hatred that comes prior for example in the case of raana raana looks down on man like on a human being he feels I'm so powerful a man can do nothing to me kamsa has that attitude in general he's just a tyrant so his whole context is very different because you're on the topic of asking about different rakshasas and their back stories each of them you can trace back not just rakshasas this the this is the beautiful thing R every character in a puranic story will have at least three generations or not three generations three lifetimes worth of Back stories that you can trace saying in this body they were these people in this time they were this same thing with was and daki same thing with Nanda and yashoda same thing with radha's parents same thing with kamsa so each thing will go back and make you realize why are they telling you this story here but the thing is the organization of puranas is very fantastic here in bhagavatam the focus is Krishna story so they don't get into too many of these back details but you will have Allied texts you will have other puranas where these things get elaborately spoken about so the story I just said about you know Vishnu and Krishna merging that you find in Brahma purana in great detail that doesn't come out here because vyasa's Focus here is learn the story learn the basics of the story The nuances will reveal themselves as and when to you so yes okay uh I don't want to stop you man go on so this yoga Maya that comes here um that you know she slips out of kamsa's hand and goes into the skies this same yogamaya is the one her presence reassures vasudeva and daki reassuring in samskritam is called as bhadram bhadram is when you feel safe and she brought them great news by saying he's safe on the other side and he will relieve them because kamsa still has them in jail and kamsa has kept his father also he's ensured that his father ugas is not sitting on the throne Wasa and daki are operating from a great space of Dharma so for them to know that this Tyrant is ruling like this that bothers them now she has given this bhadram she's given this news that yes your killer is on the other side he will come this news brings them its it's good news so it's Su she is the one who becomes subhadra later on in the story this is subhadra who is vishnu's Yoga Maya shaki who is in Puri jaganath along with him she's there along with balarama Swami balarama again his brother um krishna's brother the seventh child of daki again his name only suggests something so interesting because again I like I said ratar and kram you can take them in parallel and have so much fun when he comes as Rama he has three brothers that is lak shat and B the difference here is he has only one brother so a lot of people have different questions about this as to what what does this go on to talk about it is the same adishesha his eternal couch and his eternal resting point in the Milky ocean in the kir sagaram that manifests first say lakana when just look at laksha look at laksh as a character wherever Rama goes he will go there is not a single place that in the ramay where you can find Rama without lak in fact from the perspective of sadhana also if you want to ask for Rama's protection you will always ask it with lak May Rama and laksh protect me wow because whenever they have to come they come together why did I get goosebumps right now man see that's Rama and lak because whenever Rama is invoked lak is with him from the time take the very first story Rama is growing in aodha and vishwamitra enters and he tells dasara I'm performing a mahay yagam I need protection ramay will give you a Ras right then and there dashar says I'll come vishra says I didn't ask for you I asked for your son you gave me your word that whatever I ask for you'll give send your son dashara immediately panics and with great reluctance after visha saying listen Dasha don't go back on your word is when he sends Rama only Rama is asked for vishwamitra doesn't ask for laka but lak still comes and when laksh is going nobody says no because everyone knowingly or unknowingly recognizes both of them together raka swarupam means both of them if you think of Rama and lakshana holding with their arms stretched and their arrows ready to shoot you think of this when you are in danger they will physically protect you there are tons of experiences a very famous vagara a composer par Excellence called thyagaraja Swami one of the Trinity of karnatic music music he has had instances in his life when Rama and lak have protected him and the wealth that was being transported along with him back to his hometown when he didn't even know that they were doing this there is an instance um where he's going back to his hometown and a merchant sends some gold along with him he doesn't know it in the penquin it's there so they're going through the forest and thyagaraja Swami's disciple comes to him and he says I don't think we should go through the forest at night because we have gold tarami said why are we carrying gold he says no that Merchant gave it not he said it's not for you it's for the Rama that you are worshiping at home so thyagaraj Swami made a statement saying Rama's weth no Rama will take care of it and then they go through the forest in the night in the morning when they briefly stop when tagar Swami comes out of the penquin at that point a bunch of um Forest thieves come running to him and they fall at his feet and he says why are you falling at my feet they said we tried to attack your Carriage your palanquin in the in the night but two People Protected it one standing in front one at the back one was extremely dark one was extremely Fair both of them we just want to see them again they were so beautiful to gaze at and that is when tagar Swami lament saying you showed your form to someone who was trying to attack me but you won't show yourself to me is it but the point of the story is that they come like that Rama and lak are stuck together lak Swami is like that he'll never leave him look at the biy that he has in that avatara the the way he follows Rama the way he leads the way for Rama also metaph orally literally right he's he's the one always clearing the path he's the one that is building the cottage he's the one who's ensuring Rama should be comfortable who asked him to come on the vasam nobody but he went and what phenomenal Dharma he does now this is in R aatar you fast forward to Krishna aatar first of all here laksh Swami is the younger brother come to Krishna aatar he becomes the older brother and here as an older brother the relationship is so different the the kind of friendship that evolves between the two it's so beautiful I was recently in vavan and this beautiful uh place called tadam in tadam this is one of the spots where Krishna and balama used to gra the cows so if you go to tadam you will see two Idols of Krishna and balarama where balarama is resting his hand on Krishna krishna's shoulder like this laksh Swami will not do that for Rama but this is a rahasyam in bti when you serve like that you serve like laksh you can become as close to him as balama you can hold him like this that's the proximity that you get so balarama here is krishna's elder brother born before Krishna he is the seventh child dak's eighth child is Krishna the seventh child when daki is has conceived this child at that point sitting in vikunta Vishnu says yogamaya You must act now pull this baby out of dak's womb and place her in another lady's womb who this other lady is her name is rohini Place her place this little baby into rohini's womb let the baby grow there safely and let rohini give birth to him what happens here everybody assumes that deak had a miscar because this is happening in great secret nobody else knows this except yoga Maya what is interesting about this story this baby is pulled out of the womb in samsam the concept of pulling is Karana to pull Krishna also comes from the word Karana K akaran in Hindi is also the same idea that you pull something the baby is pulled out carefully with concentration carefully in samam is samyak samyak plus K sarana which is Saran which is balarama's name the one that is moved carefully from one womb and is kept onto the other side this is in context to the Avatar all these names that we are talking about vasuda Sankar they they have meanings in this context vasuda means son of vasuda but like I told you the very bhagavatam is based on vasudeva's mantam but Vasa came only in the 10th chapter that's when we start to realize no there is much more than a contextual meaning vasuda does not only mean son of vasudeva because we spoke about Dua last time right Dua receives the the mantram of vasudeva much before Krishna vatar happens so how is it that the son of vasudeva's mantram was given to him earlier because vasudeva means the one who has NASA or who who reside in all living beings and shines within them the one who is vam is inside this body he is called as vasuda that vasudeva then came later as the son of vasudeva so it matches the context so Sankar means one who is pulled out here and placed into another womb but srna has a larger Cosmic meaning the centripetal centrifugal forces that keep the Earth on its perfect axis and ensure it doesn't move slightly so that no life is harmed over here that force is called sankaran wow so look from where the concept starts and what it pulls into who's writing all this poetry in your head that Hanuman sitting such a poetic guy man seriously but how did you become like this breaking away a little bit from the story just Obsession because stories were always fascinating and I never viewed them as something that's happening elsewhere how is your teenage normal on the on the outside uh fun on the inside because what H what was happening inside was there was a lot that was going in and I never knew that it would uh it would result in something else so absorbing yes absorbing absorbing through discourses uh my parents used to go for discourses they ask me to tag along if I wanted to I would read I would listen I would just be around when conversations were happening how do you feel when you're delivering these stories very very often to be completely honest what happens is if I come with a certain structure in my head almost always that structure is completely demolished when I'm speaking and something else emerges things that I never thought I'll say I'll end up saying things that I have thought through 10 times saying yes I must mention this they don't happen that's my ultimate reminder that something else is operating and not me so yes okay back to the story telling uh I love what you said about centripetal and centrifugal force uh so thing about Vishnu bhagan being the sustainer of life exactly yes when you look at the Earth from a bit of an astrophysics perspective you zoom out you look at our whole solar system uh and you realize that we live on a habitable planet yes it kind of makes you question that in the grand scheme of things when you actually try gauging the age of the universe yeah this is a very tiny fraction in that whole long timeline right yeah uh like the Earth has been around for not that long human beings have not been around for that long sure so there's something special about a planet which allows just enough light just enough water just enough air to sustain life and to have all of human history all of the dasar all this experience this Rich experiences yes uh the evolution stories of uh caused because of vishnu's Leela yes that he will balance the centripedal force with the centrifugal force and ensure everything is moving in perfect there was a a request um I think in one of the last uh in the comments on the previous episode asking about satyanarayana that concept connects here we we talk about satyanarayan Puja satyanarayan brata so it leads to a question who is satar Satya means Eternal the one who is ensuring these Eternal Cosmic laws are followed that the Earth is on this axis the Earth takes 24 hours to move around the Sun that the Sun is going to rise in the east that it's going to set in the west that there is a certain pattern to Seasons all of that the one who is what we call in samsam as vishaka the one who is setting these Universal Nas in place his desire is Satya sankalpa it will happen it is he that we call as Satya narana that is why we call him Satya narana because his sankalpam will con will remain constant and it cannot be questioned so the one that is ensuring all of these things like you said that special care towards the Earth like I mentioned the Earth is his concert it is bhvi that is why if you look at different um Paths of worship the the recognition and the the respect that is given to bhudevi is only through you can I reach him because even devatas cannot worship even if they want to worship they come down here onto bhulokam and to do it this is karmabhumi so the the the the power of this bomi is so much that it that it brings devatas down here to do sadh so that's the kind of massive hold it has and it is the only bridge that we have to reach him that is why they say hold on to the Earth be sensitive in your practices towards the Earth don't do things that will damage the Earth it will damage your own sadh you have to be extremely careful with that so when I think of Brahma my head automatically goes to the Big Bang the creation of life sure when I think of Shiva my head automatically goes to the edges of the universe which is the end sure and destruction and uh it also goes towards time yeah right when I think of Vishnu I go towards space yes uh the time and space continuum that they both they're the different sides of the same coin yes at the same time when I think of the blue and greens of our planet sometimes I feel like is Vishnu bhagan the actual general of all human beings and all life in general not human beings chimpanzees Tigers Birds everything yeah tell me the shastra based version of what I just said if if there is any absolutely there is this idea that this is what all of what you said is Krishna aatar look at who he moves around within Krishna aatar in this aatar he's roing around with cows with birds with animals with peacocks in groves sitting in forests going and grazing these cows all of these are nature-based activities he is adopted into a coward family he he may be from the yuam but he goes there and he does all of this right this whole idea that the one who is there in every living being and is making that Consciousness chaitan which is making that living being functional which is making that body functional that is Vishnu that is chaitan but with Krishna aatar what you see is all these beings they become attracted to him there are books that talk about all of what we were talking about this whole idea that all of this life here what chose to Incarnate as what Leaf in vavan is mentioned in Krishna upanishad and upanishad that talks about which deat said no I'll be the leaf in vavan when he'll come on one day and he'll sit under this tree I'll be a leaf on that tree rudra said I'll become the flute for him every deata wanted a space there what when you talk about devatas is it again is it gods that are sitting elsewhere it is about a force in that being it is about as many tions that we have as many elements of nature that we have for everything there's a deata datat simply means ruling power that ruling power is not necessarily visible to the physical eye it is a cosmic force that is ensuring that that being is operating in a certain way so all of these beings Vishnu is the one that is controlling all of them that's what we mean by sustainer saraka He Is ensuring that there is a balance like you said blue green his whole avataram is based on these colors only No in fact interestingly Krishna is called as Nila sh as we said shama is the dark color we associate it with blue with darker Shades of Black also Kali also is called shamala Rama is also called as durva dalama the one who has the Hue of a durva leaf durva that we offer to ganapati that greenish Hue Rama has so if you go toward South India you will see tons of especially tanour paintings they will have green issues of Rama again elements of nature Vishnu is always connected to Nature every part of him is it's speaking about his connection to Nature that's why nature is the easiest way to find him look at the practices around him look at krishna's whole birth born on one side of a river taken to the other side of a river river sustains life there only they're telling you all of Krishna lelas in the first part of his life so Krishna lelas are divided into two kinds of leelas all the lelas that he performs now as a growing boy until he leaves brindavan these are all called as Madura leelas the second type what he performs in kurukshetra or leading up to the war between the pandavas and the kovas those are all called as aishwara lelas the interesting about mataas is most of them have to do with elements of nature he's standing on a tree and he jumps from that kadamba tree into the water I have to tell you something very interesting in this regard the first time I had gone to vavan um I was walking along the yamuna on the GS and um my friend who had taken me there he they casually popped a question and he said do you believe that we are what we keep thinking about I said what said do you believe that I said believe what he repeated the question do you believe that whatever we keep thinking about that's what we become said yeah I guess I was not in a very philosophical mood at that time so I said huh okay he didn't complete or you know finish that conversation he just said Hey listen stop where you are you see the tree bark where you are right now I said yeah so it's a tall old tree bark he said just peek into the tree bark I said why he said this is the tree from where Krishna jumped this is the kadamba tree from where he jumped into the water when the five headed snake Kalia was playing Havoc so there was this is a story that happens when Krishna and his friends are playing ball and um the ball falls into the water and all of his friends hesitate saying no we can't go there because there's a poisonous snake called Kalia or Kalinga who is going to killas if we get there so Krishna says nothing to worry and he gets onto this tree and he jumps and Krishna is not seen for some time some version say it takes days he goes underwater and he comes out dancing on Kalia because he subdues kalia's pride and he drives Kalia away because kalia's there terrorizing the citizens of brindavan now this is one of krishna's most interesting leelas but to complete the story why my friend asked me this I realized only when I peaked into that tree I'm looking at a hollow tree bark I put my eyes into that Hollow and I I pulled back immediately in horror because all I could see was two snake fangs darting out the tree wood has become like two snake Fang thanks I looked at my friend I said what is this and he said that's what the tree keeps thinking about the tree thinks about the time the snake came out and that's the last thing that the tree saw that tree has become that snake by virtue of thinking that you can understand of course that talks about his connection to all these natural elements but that is Krishna Kata that you can see the magic of the universe you can see Krishna leelas which brings me to the third Point around Krishna one is Krishna Kata is in a gram called the bhagavat puranam Krishna Kata is in time janmashtami and Krishna Kata is in vavan in that vumi the kind of things that happen there the the magic of the space when I say Krishna bhakti is different it's it's not a it's not a low statement because here you have to unlearn things from spirituality because everything that applies to quote unquote the boxes of spirituality not that spirituality is a box but there are certain tenets that we start to follow in the path of s D Krishna will make you question even that because it has to pull you into a different space altogether and the experiences of those in brindavan are testimony to that because there it's not as much about shastram not to say that it is it disregard shastra but it goes into a space beyond shastra where you have to understand what is actually happening over here so I I'll give you an example of a story this happened like maybe a decade ago there's a woman in vavan who used to be extremely devoted to Krishna to the point that she would talk to Krishna in her home and Krishna would respond she treated Krishna like her child and one day she went to the backyard and she was chatting with the neighbor trying to talk about something and from inside the house she can hear Krishna calling he said come I'mma come and feed me so she's gone and given him something again she's seeing him so immediately the rational mind will say what do you mean he said feed me what it means is to her that's how that voice spoke so she gone she's gone and taken care of whatever he needed 2 minutes later she's resumed the conversation he said Amma I need something else I need water then she's done that again she goes back again he says I need a blanket I'm feeling cold this goes on and on and on and her interruptions constantly he's interrupting her and finally he screams says there's a cat that's coming to the house I'm very scared at this point she is talking to her neighbor and she gets extremely irritated and she says you have the shanka chakra at your disposal no why you getting so scared of a cat use the shanka chakra then and at that point she herself has written about this and she said he spoke to her in a voice and he said said you want me to use my shanka chakra I will all these days you treated me like a son so I treated you like a mother now you want to remember that I'm paramatma I'm again distant from you I'm gone this is an undoing of a spiritual spiritual truth spiritual truth is remember that he's God remember that he's God remember that he's everywhere Krishna bhakti is saying forget even that forget all of these things just fall in love just take care of him that is the whole idea in vavan that is the gopikas that is the gopas when they're withr Krishna they're all thinking about Krishna they are not thinking Krishna is paramatma no they're just thinking Krishna Krishna Krishna and they're obsessed when Krishna goes into the water after the snake Kalia immediately in in vavan there are a series of ill Omens of ab shakun that suddenly everybody sees nobody's thinking that something happen to my children they're all thinking did something happen to Krishna that is Krishna that he pulls your mind Krishna is the one who pulls you towards him once he does that you can't see anything else he won't let you see anything else he will demand 5,000% attention and if you question that and say I don't want to give it to you he say okay cool then I'm going to go to the next person that is why Krishna bhaktas they go into this state of ecstasy and there are host of people that are testimony to that be it the go swamis the different uh yogis who live in vavan till date when they speak of Krishna something happens to them so yeah can we pause this and speak about modern day vavan yes okay um a friend of mine Amika Davi she's also a content creator she insisted that we go to vavan and I had expectations based on the stories of Krishna that I had read when I was a kid but the moment you enter that BJ bomi yes you feel a lot of spiritual force all around you yet it's very very calm yet it's very very tantric there is Krishna tant that's happening all around everywhere you go people are sing Rad Rad everywhere you go you see art related to Krishna everywhere you go you feel kind of um musical calm yet musical nice words you're using yeah I mean I'm just trying to encapsulate the emotions I felt uh while I was there yeah of course you get deeper sleep um you also feel a lot more satk when you're there honestly definitely uh you know I I almost I remember when I went to vavan in October of last year almost year ago um I was at the peak of my basa which is pretty Fierce and it it's a pretty strong kind of process yes so it was almost like for lack of a better word the opposite of that that's what I felt uh being amongst all those Krishna BS okay uh I also kind of felt that that the energy is so strong that it may not be for people who have not done some kind of sadna if you've not done some kind of sadna you may not be able to enjoy the energy here completely that was just my own thought that led me to thinking that does this energy not allow anyone inside good question uh and also we had a follow-up podcast this year I can't remember who it was with he spoke about how the physical version of rinda ran is in sync with the astral version of vavan so you get access to the astral version of ravan through yes when when you actually go to the physical version of ravan and if you're able to enter the astral version of ravan through sadna through deep meditation uh that's where you get easy access to Krishna and the gopies yes what do you have to say about that so vavi right it's one of those phenomenal spaces where extraordinary things can happen extraordinary calm also is extraordinary calmness in the air as you said so the thing about any chetra is all chetas in bhatara will correspond to certain points in the body certain chakras some major some minor what is the thought process that rishi's envisioned for us when we visit katras we don't go to visit chetas for to see Idols to see vigraham we go there for something else we go there because there has to be if I want to let's say awaken my muladhara chakra there are chatas that I need to visit there in those katras that chakra will get activated the chakra inside will get activated because the outside is considered that so the entire universe is called as is looked at in sanatana Dharma as a cow in that case when we look at the entire universe as a cow there are different parts of the cow's body which are compared to different places so for example the cows nabii um or the nabii is the naval so just the area around the waist that is compared to or is referred to as kanchipuram so Ki is considered to be the navl of the entire universe what do you mean by this it's the place from where the universe is nourished the universe is nourished by Love by desire kamam is kamaki over there in kiura so different places correspond to different ideas vindam so Kashi for example Kashi corresponds to the a chakra Kashi you go there and you activate your AA chakr again activation sounds like it's some Sensational information but through sadhana with a guru holding your hand and seeing you through that process with Pat's Grace with shiva's Grace this point will open we have this very well-known idea that those who die in Kashi attain MTI what we mean is not of course those who physically die yes no doubt about it they attain MTI but you can be anywhere in the universe anywhere in the world and you can still die in Kashi what that means is if you leave your or your pram leaves your body when your focus is here on the a chakram you have reached Kashi then you will not return because the Kundalini has grown has risen from the muladhara chakra and has come till here so that's what you mean there vavan corresponds to the sahasrar chak this point over here look at the whole idea now from like you said the astral vavan what we go when we go to anyam the first thing that we see is dirt and mud and then we criticize it saying it's dirty but for a sadhaka that doesn't matter I'm not I'm not encouraging us to keep it dirty it is terrible that we are the ones who cause that dirt but when you go as a sadaka don't concern yourself with that you will see the magic when you go beyond that and you can see that in the space of ravan like I said the trees you can look and you can see remnants of what happened then but brindavan is called has this beautiful it has many beautiful names one of them is Lei it is where his leelas didn't happen thousands of years ago they happen every day that is why in vavan you have different um there is a certain um spots that are called as rasaali this is where the rasaa happens every day and to honor that at 6:37 the arti is performed in these these are all ons these are not even temples there are temples within Groves the AR is performed immediately and they sent you out nidhivan is one such example you're sent out by seven the whole place is closed by seven because Krishna and Radha and the gopies will come at that time of the night and nobody can see them so brindavan that we see today has some secrets that you can only access if you don't go there as a tourist you spend time like you said you go there spend time you will feel something different happening to your body Krishna is fundamentally a playful energy krishna's whole exuberance is because he likes to play with devotees so you will see it in this joyous dancing at the temples be it radhar Raman Mand or in the isan Mand any of these places there's Kian happen happening there's such a sense of Celebration elsewhere in vavan there are people sitting in absolute silence and they are seeing the leelas happen in front of them I have seen some phenomenal things there that make me realize this is not an ordinary land and that can only be seen by somebody who is looking at that vavan what is that vavan the idea that vavan here is an entry point into the goloka of Krishna remember how was mentioning about viun Vishnu goloka of Krishna we cannot access that but vavan here is capable of taking us there because vavi the kind of not just stories but the whole experiences that people have over there it is something else it makes you realize wow this is Krishna at work and you were mentioning about the music there's a beautiful place so vavan is part of a larger circuit which is called as VJ mandal VJ mandal includes 12 different ones so vinda one is one Madu one is one bale one all the the one comes as a suffix over there amongst various of these ones there is one beautiful place called vamshi vamshi means flute what is a vam uh at the at the there is a huge vam a tree over here where it was so interesting um when i' had gone there the people there were all sticking their ear to the tree so I also did the same thing and uh we could hear very clearly there's a mangam over there that's you can hear it when you put your ear to the tree you can hear mangam being played and then went and saw the rest of the temple and then I read a little bit about it they had printed out something there which I was reading which said that for anybody and everybody you can hear the mangam because this is where Krishna used to sing used to play the flute and the gopas would play along with him and that happens here constantly so the mangam is a reminder of that but there was this small fine print that read under that that if you come here and you read gopala saham which is what Shiva told Parvati a 108 names of gopala and you do gopal sadhana which is a world in itself you can move Beyond hearing the mangam to hearing the flute itself so you can actually hear the nadam the sound which Krishna makes from his flute vavan is like that you can hear music but it takes work and it takes the grace and permission of one feminine Force without whom none of that is possible her name is Radha because without her Krishna is inaccessible for us great point to get back to the story yes absolutely we'll move from vavan straight into dwara but this actually prompts me to say something else uh which is just look at this country right and look at how integral Krishna is to this country the coast and all the borders of the country are dotted with Krishna let's start with the East Puri jaganath in the east if you follow the clockwise param in D bharatam you will see Guru gurua which is a huge phenomenal form of Krishna and wudi Krishna wudi Krishna also along the coast go towards West dwarkadish go up north badri Naran come towards the central portion of India vitala and come to the heart of all this brindavan so it's in some senses he's like a he's he's the container that's holding bhatar that's why Krishna is a is a heartbeat in this country he's to different people he appeals in very different ways and I think that's also the the the premise of the story which like I said is being prompted by the audience sitting at the back here that um he was reminding me that hey you said you'll speak about my Swami also not that Rama and Krishna are different but in terms of avataram so many interesting things so this whole idea of Radha right because we see radha's involvement in rasila which is again one of the most misinterpret actions and which has now become synonymous slang with oh you know that's that's how they talk about boys who are talking to even a few girls at a at the same time because rasalila is one of the most potent uh physical or spiritual possibilities for a Seeker remember I was telling you about how um different portions of the bhagavatam are compared to different or are uh symbolized or they we give them different attributes of bhagavan's puras right the mukam is the dasham the 10th chapter of bhagavatam what is the pranam for this within the body we have pcha pranas Prana aana vanana udana Samana these are five different kinds of pranas so it's not breath Prana again is poorly misinterpreted or poorly translated as breath Prana is a or breath is a function of Prana I cannot find out close enough translatable so I won't life force fair enough you could say G yeah but that's a different world in itself so pranas are five if you look in the dasham kandam there are five chapters of the rasalila those five are said to be the pram for bhagan because understanding bhagavan means getting into the rasalila because there you see krishna's entire glow you see the entire aspect of what is the rasila it is not a kamaki it is not the dance of a lustful boy with young woman that's what it is poorly interpreted that's how it's found its um expression in films and a host of other media which have corrupted its Essence which is something very beautiful and very powerful the whole idea of rasa rasa is Essence rasa we say which means rasa is that parab rasa the essence is Joy the one who is able to appreciate that joy we call them as rasikas and you see the the import of this into music music and dance those who especially in karnatic concerts we hear this word a lot Rasika that yes I'm a Rasika of this music which when you translate to English Rasika becomes fan but fan is much less word in terms of its potency Rasika means somebody who is able to extract the essence and dissolve themselves into the Bliss of the experience so when you're listening to music music has that poent but that potential it can make you just dissolve into a certain Joy same thing with dance same thing with any expression any any art form or anything outside it finds its origin in this in this rasala the one who makes us dance the dance of abandon let's take a step back yes could you explain what the word rasa yes meant on a surface level first sure Absol then we'll go to a deeper me um so Krishna leelas are many in number right there are host of things that happen as he's a growing boy but like I said once the all of the gopas are given permission to enter vavan here you see some of the most extraordinary lelas happening who are the gopas the gopas good question the gopas and the gopies are poorly translated as Milkmen or the cow herds as we refer to them but the word if you look at Krishna bti all sadams all Traditions will tell you you have to become a gopy to appreciate Krishna to know Krishna what is it telling you to do is it telling you to take up a certain profession and become a coward this is not in any intended to be derogatory to to the profession but the idea is gopas and gopies they may look like they are just like you and me they're doing their functions and carrying on but they are extraordinary people they are people madly in love remember you used the word Obsession in the beginning they are obsessed with Krishna for them everything is Krishna and who are gopas is the next question right as in literally yes they appear like beings who are just in the vicinity of brindavan growing and being happy with Krishna but look at the word gopa or Gopi go refers not only to cow go also means our sense organs indas are called as go p over there refers to Piti meaning to drink those who drink the essence of paramatma with all their sense organs are called as gopies meaning when they are seeing they want to see Krishna when they hear they want to hear Krishna Kata when they're tasting they want to taste Krishna prasadam when they smelling they want to hear smell the aroma of Krishna when they're touching they want to touch his Lotus feet with all their sense organs they're singularly focused on Krishna becoming a Gopi is one of the hardest things to do because it means you want Krishna nothing from Krishna there is a fine line but a strong distinction between the two when you want him in that state you will become a gopy that is why when sadhakas like ramakrishna paramahamsa said they wanted to experience Krishna he became a Gopi he became Radha he by radha's Grace he had some phenomenal experiences but Radha is the one who gives gopad the one who gives the experience of becoming a gopy because gopy is not about a physical aspect of feminine and masculine he is that parha I have to become a gopy for him so gopies are those beings there that had waited for lifetimes to Incarnate and to be present when Krishna was born and when Krishna did come they surrounded I mean they centered him at the center of their existence and everything was around him so so once they start to grow with Krishna they're all thrilled that he's there and one phenomenal moment happens so I told you about Radha being crowned and then Radha and Krishna have a secretive marriage which even the gopies don't attend nobody knows about it much later comes a point in vavan when one five night on Pima sharat Pima which is the Pima that comes five days after two pimas in the year are called as sharat Pima because they come in shadu this is the month when we have navaratri and the month when we soon after deepavali so that it is basically asham masam and kikam masam both these pimas are called as sharat pimas on this night Krishna goes into one of the ones of one of the WAMS and he picks up his flute and he begins to play it Krishna goes alone he's playing this somewhere far away all of these gopies are involved in samsaram they are all involved in their own worlds they all have homes they all have people to take care of they're involved in whatever ways may all of them hear the call only they can hear the flute the their families and others cannot and this is the beginning of the I will not say this is the beginning of the rasala this is the the beginning of this Leela what is Leela then Leela is a way in which bhagavan shows his swam he shows his anugraham his grace how he's about to bless these people because these were people that wanted him and him alone and this is their moment of mcti and it is so beautiful ranir the way the gopies deal with this because this becomes the story of a sadaka who wants to attain that Divine the first stage of that is when you hear the Divine you hear the Divine calling you you follow that call that happens to sadaka they forget everything around them so in the case of the gopies it's described that they're all in their homes respective homes doing their own things suddenly one lady is feeding a child and she's just dropped the child and she's going another lady was cooking she's not bothered that something is there cooking she's left the third lady was serving her husband and in-law she just walked out and she followed that call there were some who did not get to go there were some who are blocked by others this is teaching us about the nature of the world when we are on spiritual Journeys there will be forces that knowingly or unknowingly or unwittingly are blocking us sometimes even our own folks but these forces will not stop a true Seeker they will pay no heed to it they will go straight there were some that were not allowed to to go Krishna had decided that night I am going to give MTI to the gopikas what about the ones who could not come their eyes shut and they experienced that MTI then and there not to say that they died but they went into such a state where they did not associate with their body anymore that is the ultimate Moka that is called as Jan MTA aasta where even when you are physically alive and you're inside this body you have lost all sensation with this body the ones that could not go he gave them there but the story continues with all the ones that got pulled towards him of course rasala if we begin talking about it's it warrants a great episode in itself to be very honest but what is the current connotation of rasalila rasila what happens after this is once the gopies are drawn to the place where Krishna is they all find him there and he's playing the flute so they're all surrounding him and soon they notice that there is one Krishna for every gopika so every gopika has a personal Krishna now and he's playing the flute they are dancing soon he is also dancing with them they become intimate this is the basic understanding of rasila rasila has not even started to be honest till this point people have reached and at a surface level they have taken it and trashed it they have like I said this becomes a popular slang to say oh if you see a boy with multiple Girls you'll say oh Krishna and his gopikas these are these kind of derogatory things which people feel thrilled about saying what they end up doing is a disservice to the actual understanding there it is not women that are lusting after Krishna that go there the idea of rasalila like I said one one is about being able to recognize the call of the Divine and to act on it because Krishna is like this if Krishna calls he will test do you want to come or do you not are you willing to let go of everything else and come right now if you say listen Krishna you're calling but you know there is something that I need to attend to I'll finish that and come then he'll say you know what I'll move on there are other Seekers I will go there but if you follow that call the magic happens after that and that's what happens now because they're all dancing with Krishna they're all thrilled stage number one recognizing ing the Divine second the call of the Divine second stage is to experience and allow that Bliss to drench them happens to all of them third stage prior to rasalila suddenly all these gopikas they're all around him suddenly they're all thinking to themselves ah such a paramatma he is called by the entire universe he lifted up Gohan parat he did all of these phenomenal leelas I got such a paramatma such a paramatma is in my control now he's dancing they don't realize it it's a kinchit it's such a meager just a floating thought the second it comes to all of them independently Krishna is there means yoga Maya is there they're all deluded into thinking the same thing the second they think that he's disappeared they no longer see him now starts the desperation because up till now they didn't know what the taste of dancing like this with Krishna was now they did and this is a Divya anuti it's an extraordinary experience now when they are experiencing this in this format and it's taking taken away from them imagine eating something that you absolutely relish that you've never eaten before and then pulling having someone pull it away from you say no you can't have it anymore so they lament they cry and then they discover oh my God I just thought that and then oh you also thought that oh you also thought that so everybody was thinking the same thing and then they start to search for him and when they search for him they don't find him and they're all now starting to mimic him stages and biti you want to be with the Divine so badly you become the Divine so one of them goes and stands on top of a rock and says oh this rock is Kalia and I am Krishna I'm dancing on top of this rock another one picks up a stone and says this is Gohan patam I'm Krishna what are you doing you're mimicking him these are all ways in which you go closer to him you start to internalize him but there's no sign of him so they're all crying they're cursing themselves and suddenly they notice a pair of footprints and they realize hey are those his Footprints so they start to follow it in the forest in it's just Moonlight that they have nothing else and then they realize there's another pair of footprints with them this is what bhagavatam tells us they realize this and they're all checking oh my God who's there because all the gopies are here so who's with him this is where bhagavatam gives a hint of Radha bhagavatam does not reveal that it is Radha they just see that there are two sets of footprints that are disappearing into a Thicket inside the forest they don't say anything else Shuka yogindra does not tell parikhit who it is but they're all wondering who is this woman who is with him and then after some time of thinking wondering who it is Krishna appears at some point when Krishna decides to appear is when he appears not when they lament next stage in bti he will come not because you caught him you cannot catch him upanishad says this you cannot have him by your mind or by your speech if you think so that is ahankar and ahankaram immediately will be separated from him so what does he do he clears the gopies of that ahankaram that yeah he's mine there's no mine in sad there is no me there is only you and once he comes back now he dances with them that is the rasalila where this is the dance of complete abandon where they have recognized his true self and that is a nasala it happens on a daily basis so you see the clear physical presence of Radha in other puranam in bhagavat puranam there is just Krishna who comes like this since you like connections the world of connections begins here there is one Krishna in the center there are gopikas all around him for every gopa now there is also a Krishna that is manifesting there are Krishna all around there's a central point a Bindu stanum and there is a circle around him what is a circle basically multiple such dots the same dot that is here in the center is all over Bindu tanam and layers and layers and layers of Krishna that is nothing but the Shri chakram the Shri chakram is the Bindu tanam in the center with Shiva and Shakti and all around them are Nava aaras nine enclosures of different Divine forces which originate where they origin from originate from here so the same Krishna that's here is the same Krishna that's all around it is the geometrical representation of this entire universe Vish chakram which is sustained by Shiva and shaki is it like Fibonacci it is a constantly expanding but it has fixed enclosures so the Shri chakram when it is in 2D it is called as Shri yantam it is a geometric when it is pulled up it becomes the mahameru because then the Bindu comes at the top and all of these lead up to that that leads you into the world of Davi so yeah just to show you that the same connection that here that krishna's dance here is the same as the Shri yantra or the Shri chakra so yeah one thing you with Krishna everyone comes one of my earliest memories in life is reading this book about krishna's life it was published by iscon I believe um and it's just got a lot of images related to Krishna and his life of him killing that rakasi was sent to nurse him put yeah yes uh that's how I visualize the life of Krishna not for a second as a three-year-old do you think that it's so esoteric like this podcast has become so esoteric it's almost difficult for me to wrap my head around all of it and I'm going to have to listen to this twice or thce to actually absorb all of this um what do you think is the right way of dispelling this kind of information going further cuz I also think that the audience has reached that point now where we need esoteric conversations rather than just a story yes okay AB throughout the course of you dispelling this information there's a part of me that's wanted to interrupt you and ask you for deeper meanings behind things and then there's a part of me which is like no no no this is not my place to interrupt you this knowledge is coming from a higher place my kind of micro question to you right now is why are you describing things so esoterically mhm that's it that's the question so I I'll tell you why because so the beautiful thing about stories is the same story can hold us through our life when you tell a 10-year-old or a 5-year-old that look Rama held up the bow and then the bow broke and then he married satha it's great but when you are in a journey of seeking within which presumably you are on voluntarily at that point to the same story can sustain you there may come and not May there will come a point in every seeker's life where sadh is not so romantic where it's feeling difficult at that point can the the same stories speak to us differently so the same rasala of Krishna is beautiful When We're Young that oh yes Krishna is dancing and you know is coming so they'll have all of these things great nothing wrong with that's how you introduce it you cannot introduce this to an typical or an average child but if you give them the basics what happens is these esoteric conversations that we are Happ having these have space to emerge you plant the seed it will germinate when it has to wow the the thing about esoteric conversations is there is always a tendency to over intellectualize things also so there are ways to level that because even with Krishna we can go on just decoding but too much of decoding he will only say stop now just come and love me don't don't try and understand me understanding is required to a point that we say oh my God there's just so much but you pause at that point and say now I just want to love and that happens by going to vavan that happens happens by just chanting His Name by just singing his songs just being in that environment so esoteric conversations are important absolutely like you said we revisit the same thing multiple times and say oh is it speaking to it'll speak to a Seeker in some way or the other it'll speak to him before we started rolling I was telling you about my bav sad Shiva um one of the easiest ways that I found to connect with Shiva is just going om namash shivi to dispel my own sense of overthinking because I know I have an over active mind and works like magic for me when I'm afraid I go back to my childhood Mantra which is om my question to you is if someone wants to connect with Krishna really fast do you just say Krishna Krishna Krishna take her name rad Radha Radha Ram Radha Krishna because she not only will dispel any other sound that's happening she will filter off all of that and at the same time she will teach us to inculcate that sense of love because PR is one of the easiest ways in Krishna maram see the thing is when you look at Krishna it's lovely to think of Krishna and vavan when I go to vavan I will say radh rad what about in my circumstance what if I'm meeting somebody I saying what is this can I look at that person as Krishna but for me to look at that person as Krishna in my day-to-day interaction I need to have recognition that there is Krishna inside him how do I do that I keep invoking Radha because rad will give me the recognition and the power to realize that everyone around me is also Krishna but that takes time so it is said that after um Radha was crowned as the queen of brindavan as vavan ADH deata she sent an instruction to everybody that I like Krishna namam because Radha takes us to Krishna so she said everybody in brindavan must chant Krishna and then one fine day somebody goes to Krishna and finds that he's chanting Radha so he sends an instruction back and says please let everybody chant Radha because I like this and then she modifies it and says okay in vavan because Krishna likes my name everybody say rad so that's why in brindavan when you go people will say Rad Rad because it is for Krishna it is an act of love for Krishna you want to go closer to Krishna just try this as a sadhana for X number of days fix the number of days that you will every conversation you have beginning and end Place Rad Rad it will change the way you speak you'll not speak rabish it will change the way you think you recognize the other person in front of you as a as Radha which means love which will take you to Krishna it will change your current circumstances also it's not an ordinary thing that's why the people who live in vavan are blessed they say R rad all the time they will not say namaste they will not say TI when they hang up when they answer it is rad R and that is immensely powerful that's the thing with Krishna you don't need complicated mantram yantam tantram all of them exist I'm not in any way saying that they don't or they have less value but namam does the job here because that namam is the essence of all these things all of that fortified power is there in those two akaras Radha and put his name after that she'll be happy you'll be happy because her name is there put them that's all you need same thing with Rama Shri is enough that's all you need so one thing and that's the power of n nanam is phenomenal because just by repeating it repeating it repeating it you can actually get to a state where you can hear that that namam is is reverberating Across the Universe but that of course takes years and years and lifetimes not years but yes so now that Raman namam has come I'll take you to that story because he's not going to let me be the idea that you want to connect with him you just recognize that he is not always in the form that you think he will be we love Krishna because he's holding a float or he's eating McAn and you know he's sitting like a little cute boy there's no saying what form he'll come so this is a story that takes us like I said that time out of vavan into dwaraka and in dwaraka when Krishna is sitting um which is the city that he sets up on in Gujarat in dwaraka nagaram there when he's sitting one day Krishna is always a multitasker so he's always thinking of like three birds with one stone or 40 birds with one stone not one so he thinks to himself there is somebody's Pride that I have to quell who is that that happens to be his mount guda guda who is narayana's vahana or krishna's vahana is sitting he's also there in dwara he comes in Krishna aatar in ratar he comes but Rama like I said is such a great actor that when gura comes Rama looks and he says who is this bird but in Krishna aatar happily he uses because Rama follows those conditions there of not pretending of pretending that he is not Nar Krishna does guda thinks to himself in dwaraka that everybody says that Hanuman is the most is the fastest person in in the world but Hanuman belongs to tra y this is dwap yugam so in this context right now I only the fastest no it's not that voto it's a textbook reality he's thinking this but that is Krishna you think something also he'll know so immediately he goes to gura and he says Garuda can you do me a favor can you please go to Hanuman and convey a message and tell him that um I want to see him that U ask him to come so immediately gura goes gura goes to gandhamadana patam where Hanuman is sitting in Tapas we spoke about gandhamadana patam in the mountains Hanuman is doing Tapas over there and guda waits for him to open his eyes and when Hanuman does he sees guda and uh he says how come you have come so he says my Swami is calling you Krishna is calling you so Hanuman says who and guda says Krishna Hanuman says I don't know I'll resume my Tapas guda is very perplexed he says Krishna is calling you and you're saying you'll return to your Tapas over here so immediately he goes back to Krishna gura goes back to Krishna and he says look I told him that you're calling and he didn't come Krishna said really what did you say I said Krishna is calling how will he come if you say Krishna is calling go and tell him tell him siama are calling he'll come so immediately he goes there and he looks again and Hanuman says yes what happened and he says SI ra he doesn't even finish Rama he just says SI ra are and Hanan gets up and he says Rama is calling me and you're saying it so slowly he tucks gura into his armpit and in one jump he's about to be here this shows guda oh he will always be the fastest this is gura's pride that is quelled but there is another purpose to the story Krishna sensing all this before it happens and he looks in his court and he tells all the Queens Krishna has eight wives predominantly considered as ashal Lakshmi eight forms of Lakshmi are considered as his eight wives rukmini satyabhama uh host of them he looks at all of them and he says look Hanuman is about to come in a second Hanuman will be here what have I sent word I've sent word that SI raama are calling Hanuman I'll convert myself into Rama no problem which one of you will become sitha and all of them are looking at each other and realizing we don't have what it takesa is brasini she is the complete manifestation of the divine feminine so all of them look at each other realizing we can't because up till then even they thought that yes we can we you know we have we are his Bas his shis rukmini is the one there who's standing and she says there is only one person who can be sitha let me summon her let me you summon her Swami from brindavanam in one second Radha is standing by his side and Radha smiles and radak Krishna becomes sitarama so Hanuman comes and he looks at both of them he says Ah sitarama are here and so Krishna does this beautiful Lea to talk about how Rama and Krishna are the same Sia and Radha are the same so mysterious Sith Radha but their placement in the Epic something else this is just about Radha what we spoke satha if you touch you take away satha there's no Ray every other story even Krishna aatar you will see the involvement of lakshmi's aatar in a certain context it's not to say she's not important but in Krishna avataram he's doing a host of leelas by himself yes in terms of tatwam in terms of philosophy she's always there but there are avataram where you don't see her physical presence like when he comes as V which we discussed last time you don't physically see her she's always there but you go to ratar she's the one who's moving the story it is her kidnapping that makes him go to Lanka otherwise he won't even go there the whole idea that the Rishi knew that if Rama has to be moving out of aodha and has to go to Lanka vishwamitra just uses that yagam as an excuse what he actually wants is for Rama to go to mitila marry her and he knows once I place Rama into Sia's hand the rest of the story will move so Sia and Radha represent that aspect of shaki which take us straight to Rama or Krishna depending on who are ISAT but we have to necessarily invoke them that is why sh j j j this is R's Maham 13 syllable sh j j j but the starting syll is Shri the schlam that I mentioned in the beginning R bhadra bhadra the one who gives us safety ramachandra the one who has a glowing face like the glowing Moon ramachandra say the one who is the lord of the ruam ragay and my Lord nataya all this is fine but you have to remember who he is he is the Lord of sa call siama will come call Radha Krishna will come that's the easiest way both these margam they gave us these ways that is why Hanuman is always doing japam of both of them together because he knows that she is the easiest way to take us there okay one of my intentions behind doing this episode was to actually learn about Raha and we've hid that Mark uh still not understood it completely yeah cuz it's too deep a topic it but this is the first time we're talking about it on the show Absolutely um before we move forward mhm I had another intention with this episode which is to kind of go over the surface level story of Krishna as well sure so from this point yeah where I think we we've just touched upon the rasa part the gopies yes that aspect of Krishna yeah where roughly speaking this was his teenage yes yes fair enough to say that from his teenage yeah up till the Mahabharat yes can you take us through that story first just the surface level story sure and then we'll break down the esoteric parts of absolutely sure so what you see post the rasalila um is that a call comes for Krishna or rather Krishna recognizes that kamsa the one who he had to slay is there on the other side of yamuna in matura kams as ruling there as the king and Krishna takes it upon himself to leave vavan this is honestly one of the most heart wrenching parts of the bhagavatam also because when he goes the sadness of the gopies it's just something else it because see tatwam philosophy esoteric aspects these are all beautiful these when we think about it yes but in terms of Kata just look at how sad it is that the ones who loved him with all their heart are having to see him physically go away that's why they cry they plead they go they go with him same thing happens in ratar when he leaves aodha because when he's banished when his when Kai banishes him the way aodha the praja of aodha the way they follow him in the Chariot Rama has to leave early morning before they've come to some part of the forest with him also and Rama wakes up the charot and he says listen we need to go before they get up and they and we need to wrongly show them the path so that they get misled and they go back to aodha that's that vatam that that pangs of Separation even for a second nobody wants it from Rama or Krishna but they have to go through it and Krishna goes over he sure enough goes kills a host of rakshasas that are there in kamsa's court kamsa has organized this massive wrestling match Krishna kills all of them Mala etc etc the host of them and he kills kamsa also once he kills kamsa and he establishes ugrasena as the king of Maura krishna's leelas take a different turn who is ugrasena ugrasena is kamsa's father kamsa took the kingdom wrongly from his father and um he I mean before his father's time and he imprisoned his father as well once Krishna reestablished ugrasena on the throne Krishna leelas go through a significant change all the leelas that happened here in matura and vavan predominantly brindavan Gokul Nanda and matura are all called as Madura leelas now it is Aishwarya leelas Aishwarya leelas is where he displays his isharat his divinity iswar here being parabrahma he shows his divinity with no hesitation so now is where bhagavatam meets bharatam where bhagavatam meets the mahabharatam because once kamsa is killed we see the entry of Krishna when in the mahabharatam we jump from this gram into that where the pandas have been sent the pandavas are krishna's they have been they are in their own Universe fighting and battling negative energies over there and Krishna comes in contact with them so Krishna comes to their rescue every single time and he's with them as they fight off the kavas each time they're trying to figure out how to manage that situation Krishna becomes their Mentor so he's by their side he's their their counsel he's the one who's constantly advising them on what to do how to do it what is the best strategy and through that you see a very different side of Krishna this is awaria Leela these are all called awar leelas henceforth so for example how he helps them strategize about the war but what's the last mention of Krishna in the bhagwatam then so it's not last mention in the sense that here the focus is on the Maura leelas there are mentions batam continues in the 11th and 12th chapter talking about you were asking earlier right it continues to talk about what happens in the also it's not that it stops with this do they mention characters from the M yes yes fully yeah yeah yeah absolutely all of the the so Vasa is very strategic about what he places where Vasa being the author of both these grams in the mahabharatam in fact it said that he wrote the mahabharatam and he still didn't feel content inside he still felt like know something is missing Nara came to him and he said WR bhagavat Kata because mahabharatam it's extremely powerful but at the same time it's it it deals with things that we encounter on a daily basis deals with every kind of anger lust jealousy frustration etc etc Vasa expanded all of this in the story The phenomenal story of the pandavas versus the kavas and all the twists and turns but it is bhagat Kata it is the Kata of bhagavan that gave him ultimate soles that is why he wrote the bhagavatam so bhagavatam he writes after he's written bharatam so every major portion from there comes here but in lesser or more quantities depending on how much he's already expanded it over there so there's no repetition but if he has to drill in an idea you will see it mentioned over here so once he goes and meets the pandas and he becomes their their trusted Council Krishna has come for two purposes one is to bless all these Gopi janas these gopas and gopies who were waiting for lifetimes for him to come and that's the thing about Krishna aatar anybody who comes in touch with him this is their last J so this leads me to a very well-known story about how Vishnu in viun has two dwarapalakas that is J and Vijaya vikunta has seven Gates of Entry you cannot make it past them easily these are only crossed by those yogis who have gone past Kama desire croa anger lha MOA Mada matsya all of these those who go who conquer these six enemies they go to the seventh gate if the if they have truly succeeded success in samam Jam complete success vijayam if they have completely mastered all these then they get entry into vikunta that's why J and Vijaya are The Gatekeepers it's a metaphor J and Vijaya on a certain instance they block entry for four children these four children have renounced the world before they are born these are the sanat kumaras four of them they have crossed the six Gates and they've come to the seventh one but bhagavat Kata is always always teaching us this it's teaching us that you cannot be arrogant even this much arrogance detrimental to sadh anytime you think about someone else or yourself tuck you'll find yourself falling so J and vij block these kids and they say you cannot go inside you haven't even experienced the world this is for people who have finished experiencing the world they can go inside so immediately sanat kumara say you people are thinking of us as children and you think that just because you are close to Vishnu you have the right to prevent us from being from entering so we give you a curse you will be born on earth away from Vishnu these they lament now because separation vat always painful so Vishnu comes out and he asks what happened and when he hears of it he smiles and he gives them two choices he says you go on to Earth because this curse has to be fruitful you can go and take seven long lives where you will love me with all your heart but those will take a long time or you take three sets of lives where you hate me with all your heart and in all those three sets I will come and I will take you back they choose the second they choose the latter not the former because seven long lives seven long sets of lives without Vishnu is far more painful than three quick sets whatever he makes them do in those three quick sets they're willing to do it this is biy at its best whatever I have to do for you I'll do even if it doesn't look good on paper so they incarnate as three sets of rakshasas all three which get killed during the course of the dasavatar the first is hiranaka and hak kashu H Haka is killed by vas Swami who we mentioned hya kashu by narasimha the next set that they come because J and vij are pair the next set that they come is raana and kumbhakarna wow so Rama kills raana and kumbhakarna the last set they come as shishupala and dantavakra Krishna comes and removes them Krishna avataram final Avatar when Krishna comes for everybody it's the last J nobody who comes in contact with Krishna comes back into samsara chakra that is the rahas of Krishna upasana you touch Krishna you go close to Krishna if you're automatically drawn to Krishna and through sadh you finding yourself closer to him it means mokam is also on its way wider yeah more twisty more esoteric yeah and more mind-bending conversation is about to begin right now okay could you say the schl yes absolutely so after you say it I'll continue so this idea that whenever there is a destruction of when there is a decline in D I will come I will come the bhagavat Gita one of his most phenomenal awar leelas because here he displays his all he says this is what I am what happens he takes the pandavas and kavas and Krishna is an expert strategizer Krishna is not looking for a peaceful mediation between the two where he says okay just give the pandas their Kingdom no Krishna uses the pandas and the kavas as a pretext to wipe the earth clean of all those kings that are living adharmic all those kings that are await on bhvi why because one aspect is to take care of J and Vijay and send them back which he promised he will do but the second is bhvi came to him as a cow and she said the weight of adharm is heavy I am feeling that weight adharmic kings are living and they are trampling on me come and he says I will come and he uses it in parataram he did it briefly by killing 21,000 Kings but this in the case of mahabharatam when he brought the pandas face to face with the kavas it is the war of the the era it is the yudam of that complete era because he wants to do samula complete destroy of all those forces that do not understand not do not understand do not want to practice Dharma so he uses the pandas and kovas and pits them against each other and says let this war begin and what is he he is just a sarti in all of this he is just the the witness he's doesn't take on any arms he doesn't doesn't say I'll fight this he gets them to do it bringing that J and Vijaya angle back yes you spoke about how they were ravan and kumaran as well yes ravan could be understood to be the leader of the rakas yes forces the leader of the evil side during the ramayan but according to this story Ran's soul is the same as that of one of the Servants of Vishnu yes okay and it was by vishnu's will that that servant becomes ran now post the ramayan war obviously the world was cleaned of a lot of evil not just by removing ravan but by removing his own Army yeah uh and multiple other evils bringing it back to the y y yes scho yes uh basically the logic is you need to purge the Earth of evil totally but through a Leela yes even the leader of the evil was placed there by God totally okay that's the Mind mending angle I wanted to bring you yes so the actual people at fault here the actual Souls at fault were the evil humans yes but they were also being led by a part of Vishnu absolutely saying hey let me lead you here to the edge of this Cliff absolutely and that's why my avar will throw you off the cliff which is Ram which is Krishna which is totally uh narima yes absolutely you you named the right avataram for this they lead you up to that point that is why there are some versions of the mahabharatam where karna you know karna is the the the victim in many senses is considered to be a victim who is karna karna is born to kunti prior to marriage she receives a mantram from durasi she tries out that mantram with suryya bhagan what is that mantram that mantrum I'm not going to reveal the mantram of course it's just it's something that she can summon a deata and through that deata she can have a son so through that de's Grace so she summons Surya and through surya's Grace she has a baby she's an unmarried woman so this is obviously going to cast a host of aspersion on her character so she tries to abandon the baby she's a mother she doesn't have the heart to kill the baby of course so she packs the baby into a little bundle and sends him down the river the baby is picked up by a chariot suta and that suta and his wife raise karna karna eventually is picked up by duryodhana the leader of the kavasa the first amongst the 100 Brothers he joins duryodhana's party now why I'm mentioning this instance is to build off what you said that Krishna knows who to lead where to lead look at this Leela karna is taken to duryodhana and not to the pandavas although technically he's older even than yudish because that is the Lord's sankalpam that there is a negative Force inside karna that negative Force comes out in the story I won't go too much into details about karna's negativity but we all know about the instance of dropadi being disrobed in public in the at the time when the pandavas and the kavas are involved in a game of dice the pandas lose everything that belongs belongs to them including their the selves themselves yudish Wagers his wife and he says if I win I get all of this back but if I lose you get my wife because he's again completely in that moment he's lost to that Maya and sure enough he loses dropadi and when he loses dropadi nobody in that Sabha thinks of disrobing her it is karna who says doesn't she now isn't she our dasi then why don't you go and get her dasas and let her be disrobed here in public the next negative that seed especially relevant in a time like today when a man thinks that a woman can be objectified and paraded in public as per a man's wish the message in karna's story is paramatma is watching that's why paramatma pits him onto that negative side but karna comes to a crashing end much later Krishna explains this to karna much much later also before the war Krishna clearly tells him listen you're are kutra you're the eldest son of kunti technically you should be on the side of the pandavas now not on the kavas what will you do karna by then has had his realization and he said what will I do we are all puppets in your hands I know you have put me on this side so I can fight on duryodhana side and there Krishna speaks to him this we see this in two three versions of the mahabharatam but Krishna speaks to him and he says there is a portion of evil inside you that evil has to be destroyed you have been placed there by my sankalpam my sankalpam came why because your nature is evil so when we look at Rama or Krishna or narasimha as the people who led them to the edge of the cliff their actions propelled him to do it he didn't of his own will say Chalo you be a pawn in my strategy no you are doing activities that is conducive for me to do this I will just pick you up at your natural acceleration and place you here that is why how does karna come to an end when he's fighting with Arjuna and Krishna is arjuna's sarti whereas karna has gotten a horrible sarti kaarna has gotten a terrible charer for himself whose name is Shalia shala's Chariot earing is not just about driving the horses it's also about being able to instill confidence into the the one that you are taking the warrior right you need to make them feel good about it Shala sarcastic he he already he starts to attack karna's Moon who is attacking karna karna's Karma only is coming back Krishna is the one that is karma sakshi he's watching all of your karmas what happens The Chariot wheel gets stuck in the mud and Krishna says Arjuna shoot now Arjuna is hesitating karna speaks first he said isn't it adharm that to shoot an unarmed Warrior Krishna says who's talking about adharm somebody who wanted a woman to be disrobed in public in front of so many lustful disgusting eyes you are talking to me about dharmam somebody who suggested that we shoot that your entire kava should attack the panda at a different point of time which is another story I'll not go into it he cites instance after instance saying on what basis do you talk about Dharma this is krishna's Leela that when we negotiate in our lives and we say bhagan I've been doing all these things right right bhagan is aware what is the intent number one number two what are the things you are not telling people karna story this doesn't come out that he has this negative aspect to him but when it does Krishna says Dharma and adharma you don't have that discussion with me because I am the universe's conscience keeper same thing you can draw in ratar ra I'll come to that in just a minute but krishna's awar he shows his divinity here and he says Arjuna don't hesitate now this is a moment where the law of Dharma is not it is called Dharma sukma it is the sties of Dharma saying you spend a whole life in dharmam then your end will also be dharmic you will be killed in a dharmic way you will reach your final aboard like that you can't spend your life in adharm and suddenly wake up in that last moment and be like guys but what about Dharma what did you do for that Dharma have you performed any Dharma for you to count on so krishna's leelas in this context come out like this that they show his isharat and you realize is okay here is someone who knows his entirety and he knows without any kapatam without any you cannot try falsehood with him because he pulls it out of each of us so Krishna in the Mahabharata is very different Krishna in the in the aishwar leas is very different from Krishna in the madur lelas because here the bhavam is gentle there it is fierce and there he takes on people um I'm sure you're aware of this there's this very well-known um story of how the during the war during the Mahabharata War they are trying to kill drona Dron aara Dron aaria cannot he's a fierce Warrior he is also properly on the side of the kavas in terms of fighting and that fierceness is coming through they need to attack him they need to bring down his Spirit they can't just physically attack him so there happens his dronacharya's son's name is asatama the well-known Warrior there is also an elephant on the K SAA who has the same name Name by name asatama so Krishna says let the elephant be killed and I want you all to just go around dronacharya and say ashwat ashad dama has been killed yudish takes it upon himself yudish has sworn that he'll never tell a lie so look at this situation no paramatma is standing in front of you and telling you don't say more than I'm telling you to say say this much say ashat yudish can't so when he goes toona and everyone says ashad he whispers which means elephant Aswad the elephant has been killed which is absolutely an antithesis to what Krishna wanted Krishna wanted drona psych to be affected his psyche saying oh my God ashod my son is dead yudish has gone and revealed it when he came back Krishna did not give it to him easy said on what basis did you go do that I didn't ask you to talk about the elephant I asked you to do this you do this so Krishna becomes very Fierce like a mentor a mentor is not always going to be gentle he's going to hold you accountable saying we agreed on this why would you change your path so Krishna there is a very very different Krishna in the war and of course that leads me we were talking about glan BH bharata so it leads me to the the very premise of the war which is where the ultimate expression of his divinity comes out in the bhagat Gita the song of the Lord 18 chapters of just expression of that Divinity and all so this is the rahas secret of Krishna aatar every portion that is here in the bhagat Gita he has already or he will showcase elsewhere in his life he says those who believe that I am everything those who dedicate their all to me their constant welfare constant without one second break I will take care of them declaration from the Divine so yeah such a different energy in this part of the podcast even in my body I can feel it anyone who's listening to it can feel it at this and the energy shifted like throughout the course of these two hours someone had said this on the show they said that when it comes to Krishna it's such a peculiar de or Avatar that if you study his entire life it's likely that you'll find yourself feeling more connected to one part of his life than the other parts absolutely and that's often a reflection of you yourself absolutely beautifully said beautifully said um again just for the sake of understanding the same quote better I'm going to take my own example I bow down with respect with reverence to all these different chapters but for me it's the charer part that appeals the most and I think that's the case for a lot of guys at least that have spoken to a lot of female Krishna devotees I've seen relate much more to the radak Krishna part of it more loving part don't know why that is I just guess that's human nature what is it for you so for me it it has been in what phase of Life have been at that point of time around the times that I have just been seeking that Divine validation that am I on the right path is this okay strangely enough for me it's it's not always been bhagavat Gita as much as it's been mura leelas that I kept revisiting them and finding that saying yes this this is how he's speaking to me through that but like you said different aspects of his life appeal to different people because that is Krishna and I say this with all due humility there is not a single kind of a sadhaka who Krishna does not cater to you are on a fierce intense journey of self-discovery Krishna will do something for you you are on gentle prabh margam where or push margam or any of these sadams that just are about opening this heart to his loving gentle delicate footsteps he will speak to you you are at a Crossroads and you don't know what to do bhagavat Gita will speak to you you don't know if you are right or wrong but there are situations that demand certain fierceness for you he will be there you have to leave home look at his life no his life is telling you that he has lived these experiences keep aside paramatma keep aside this in our lives when we go through certain things especially difficult moments the mind's nature is has this happened to someone else how did they deal with it I'm not the first one to go through this right it reassures the Mind look at him yet I'm keeping aside all Philosophy for this discussion born in one home born in a jail transferred that same night elsewhere to another set of parents grows up there spends great years with them has to move because the Call of Duty is elsewhere after that doesn't ever go back here at all moves on strategizes one of the greatest wars ever of the time and ultimately watches civilizations and generations disappear in front of his eyes in coldblooded deaths watches and ensures that whatever sacred life has to be protected he has done that and then goes and retires calmly watches his own family which is the yadu vam the yadu clan man watches them being destroyed on account of their own Foles and their own misdeeds and then ultimately shot by an arrow that is how the avatara samapti happens where so this happens post the war hold on I just want to pause you a little bit yeah we don't hear too much about the 36 years post the Mahabharat yeah uh could you give us the surface level story of what happened sure and where is it mentioned that's the other angle this is mentioned in the batam itself what happens is towards the end of the 18 days um or rather not towards the end at the end of it all ksham the entire Dynasty all of the hundred Brothers all of them baring one they're all killed and their wives have been widowed it's a it's a gruesome scene on the battlefield and there are vultures praying on those bodies and it's it's there are rivers of blood it's very gory gandhari comes onto the battlefield the mother of the the mother of the coras and when she sees when she of course there's a putty on her eyes because she doesn't see but she's feeling her son's body she's hearing her daughter-in-laws you know they're all wailing and when she sees that grief overtakes that's that's the real the real Parts the human parts of these stories are here grief is powerful even when rishi's experience it putok especially losing your child when you are still alive is known to be be one of the most painful things that nobody should experience because it is not the natural order of things the natural order is parents will go first children that's how age works that's how our bodies work right they are older they will go it is an unfortunate but a reality that somewhere is drilled in inside of us but when the reverse happens when a parent sees a child go it's a terrible terrible feeling and when gandari sees that this has happened not one but all of her sons have been killed that grief overtakes her and who's there when she's on the battlefield Krishna is behind her so when she's aware of this that look at this look at all this destruction she has forgotten she has forgotten that her sons caused it that they were the ones who started and soed the beas of adharma and they caused all of this massive destruction for themselves she's forgotten all of that it's easy to pinpoint no when we're angry everything for us is what bhagan I did so much for you but this is what you gave me in return she looks at him and says exactly the same thing and this is where Krishna teaches us one of the most phenomenal lessons in our lives which is she looks towards Krishna of course looking is metaphorically she turns to Krishna and she says this is your doing you brought me this much of loss I'm having to deal with death a 100 times over and it is tearing my heart into 100 pieces so I curse you Krishna that you will die silently without any respect these are all Warriors they have all died here on the battlefield they will attain vasam that's where any Warriors who die they go to vasam because they have died while performing their Duty good or bad that's where they go but you you will die silently you will die by a hunter's arrow that is my curse to you Krishna receives that curse smilingly and he says Amma you shouldn't have cursed me I'll tell you why I would have anyway gone like that that was how I had chosen to go you wasted your Tapas Krish Na's lesson is not in the bhagat Gita it's throughout his jum krishna's lesson to us gandari has earned us herself a lifetime of Tapas why because when she got married to dtra drra could not see so she took it upon herself to tie a putty on her eyes so she would also not see and be with him in that Dharma through years of that Tapas when you accumulate any kind of spiritual Tapas you earn something called vak sidhi what does Tapas do to you formula is you become sudam there is cleansing that happens from within that's what Tapas does to us it cleans our minds and our bodies sudhi leads to sidhi sudhi will make us make the tongue powerful Penance leads to Purity Purity leads to power yes beautifully put so when Shi leads to sidhi what you say will come true but what happens it's like an account you just with withdrew a whole Bank a whole lifetime's worth of savings on that curse so that is why Elders always say don't curse when you are in sadh don't utter something casually negative about someone don't wish ill because if it is destined for them for somebody for whatever reason it'll happen anyway but you don't need to waste your Tapas on them because what you have accumulated for yourself will go for someone else for something that it need not that's exactly what he says to gandhari says this is what's going to happen to you now you've lost your Tapas on this but I go after this Krishna goes to dwaraka and there he watches how his clan which is the yuam the yuam they all start bickering amongst each other because that was also part an extension of gandhari's curse and it was also written for them that the rest of his clan would die bickering and there are sub stories within this but basically Krishna watches that dynasty also slowly crumble and he goes into a forest which is in dwaraka you can still see it till date and when he goes there he's sitting at the base of a tree One Fine Day with his foot outstretched that foot is standing out it is naray padam it is that Lotus foot of the Lord that is sustaining the entire universe so it's a very beautiful it's a very attractive foot a hunter sees this dark foot and thinks that it's a deer's year so he takes a poisoned Arrow he fastens it and he shoots it that poisoned Arrow hits the tip of Krishna and slowly that poison spreads and Krishna goes back to shashwat gooka from where he came prior to this he instructed balarama to go kishna Ras ratar Ras before they go they sent back adha same adha who came as balarama balarama becomes a white snake and slides just slithers into the ocean whereas in the case of Swami also you see that he goes before Rama because the bed must be ready before the Lord comes back to recline so this is ineffective effectively the the last 36 years post the war he goes into Solitude he goes into what just witnessing and observing how each being is meeting their final point and finally he just allows himself to go because what he came for has been fulfilled it has been fulfilled through his story starting from his arrival to his spending all of those years with the gopies it has been fulfilled by giving them what they SE it is fulfilled by all the rakshasas who he killed who also went back inside him J and Vijaya he released he crossed over set up the war of the era cleaned that chapter cleaned that entire Horizon and then and gave us the most phenomenal verse and said 18 chapters 700 shlokas this is all you need for Life take it and said what more is there now this is what I've come for take it and go har Krishna yeah har Krishna any signing of notes when the world of Krishna the world we never have to exit and that's my invitation to anybody who's watching this Krishna sadhana does not require you to know not know you can be anything you can be confused you can be curious you can be annoyed you can be happy you can be anything directed towards Krishna your life will change janmashtami is an opportunity janmashtami marks the beginning of that time when you can open your heart to him and he'll come straight and land in so the only thing I want to say in parting is allow yourself to be soaked in Radha and Krishna they will take you to wherever you are meant to be whoever your ISAT is they will find you and they will place you and if it is them then you've already reached r r r lots of love thank you for another iconic Episode V Varanasi we'll see you very soon the next time we cover theat yes awesome see you that was the episode for today ladies and gentlemen um I'm recording this outro on the same day that we recorded the podcast I remember the first half being extremely heavy and I remember the second half being extremely invigorating I was left with a lot of energy after this episode and that's what happens when a genuine Seeker Chan analyzes a higher energy to help create a modernday creative product that will go out to Millions through the medium of the internet I'm not talking about myself I'm talking about Vin Varanasi want to welcome him back to TRS very soon the next time we'll be covering the topic of datat bhagan please send in your topic recommendations as well there's no limit to the number of sanatan DH episodes that we can create on this podcast thank you for listening in ladies and gentlemen and until next time read and the team we'll see you very soon [Music]