[Music] [Music] welcome to the future hello beautiful people we are live we are so live right now we're on Facebook and on YouTube practically starting on time 11:05 that's pretty good that's on time by me so today we're gonna be talking to somebody super special her name's Ashley Smithers and she does incredible powerful presentations using PowerPoint and Keynote there's a lot to learn from her I thought I was doing this pretty good until I talked to her she's got a lot of tips and tricks and techniques and she's gonna be talking about the seven deadly sins of presentation design you know as I do if you have to give a presentation it can be very nerve-wracking so it's nice to have an ace-in-the-hole if you will something up your sleeve so this is a time if you're a CEO or if you're gonna do a big launch somewhere you're gonna want to talk to somebody like Ashley so we're gonna get into it this is raw and here's her look here's a company and this is what she looks like she's a little cleaned up for our show today her studio is called 18:21 and she's based out of Toronto Canada her name is Ashley Smithers as I said and she was trained or originally as an industrial designer and so I have so many questions about how Ashley became a designer doing keynote decks alright so without further ado let us roll the titles [Music] all right here we are let's get Ashley on the phone with us or on the videoconference actually how you doing today get going it's going great so I don't want to chitchat a little bit too much because I think you've worked really hard on an amazing presentation so should we get into it or are you are you feeling good you feeling comfortable I want to make sure you're good you look good by the way I I know you I got your back girl I got your back so thank you yeah let's dive right in okay now you guys as Ashley's giving her presentation mark myself and Eric will be monitoring your questions on Facebook and on YouTube so first watch the presentation and as your questions come up we'll be collecting them so that I can ask them at the appropriate time I don't want to break her flow okay go ahead take over man let's do that okay okay okay I got a bunch of questions actually maybe the first thing that I should do just to clear it up is people are tuning in a lot of people are thinking what the heck is presentation design and they're thinking oh I use keynote I use powerpoints there's nothing here and I thought the same thing too because I remember what my client called me in the past and they asked me hey Chris do you know anybody that is presentation design I'm like what do you mean like you know to do keno and I was thinking I know the tool said I can create a template and I had a lot to learn from that point obviously he wasn't talking about a graphic designer doing a keynote presentation we're talking about crafting the message and really communicating ideas to persuade people typically that's what happens now I had in my mind a while back that I wanted to charge $10,000 four days worth of work and I just for whatever reason I had this stuck in my mind and so I wanted to do something that somebody else would find to be valuable so whenever somebody asked me to do something like that's ten thousand bucks didn't matter what it was design a logo ten thousand bucks keynote deck ten thousand bucks so to my surprise eventually people did say yes to the keynote deck and I thought I was straight up ball I was like yeah ten thousand bucks they did a keynote egg and then I talk to you you told me how much you're charging I was like oh my god you're pretty much like my step back step back I'm gonna show how a pro does this and it just blew my mind so I learned something there one maybe I was charging too little but two perhaps the truth is you're doing something way beyond what I was saying so now I'm super interested in your beginnings as an industrial designer like what how did how does one become what it is that you do today so like I I came out of high school and I was like I'm gonna be an industrial designer because I grew up with like a really like a super carpenter industrial design dad right so I thought that's what I'm meant for and I went in and they are all like oh you're gonna be still good because of your father and I sucked like I my projects where I would bring them in and I presented like me to presented Mouse chop mice would have been like living in it making babies in my - trap but the thing that happened was one of my teachers took me aside they said so we know that this is not for you that's you shouldn't be doing this but we've noticed that you have this gift that way you do the identity around it and you tell the story of how you came to have that product oh yeah so I had an amazing teacher who's like I'm gonna take you under my wing and like while you're doing this I want you to go and learn and work as the designer like a graphic designer so that you can get your actual career started yeah that's oh yeah teacher oh my goodness yeah yeah it was it they were awful like they I slice my foot open I sliced like I busted my eye just trying to make like a mailbox oh yeah it was super yeah what okay everybody has a product and everybody needs to sell it yeah so I have a question for you so sometimes we get into the state of mind where you think I'm going to be this thing and even though it was painfully obvious like literally painfully obvious like cutting parts of your body when somebody told you maybe this isn't for you we see that you have a gift in this how did you feel how did you react to that um I was actually relieved oh okay yeah I was relieved because I knew I knew that I knew it um and I would get excited about this part so I didn't really eat I didn't know that like that could be a job for me right and when I graduated I moved to the UK and I was doing a design work in a financial firm and then I came back and I got my I got the best job ever I got to work in with a capital markets firm like the biggest one in the country at that point and it was it was just like I got beat up and I was working weekends but I saw the public markets and I saw like how investor relations in capital markets are so cool and they started my mentor or started bringing me into meetings to see how the decks were built right it wasn't just designing the most like how are this how is the story built you have all this stuff to say how are we gonna make this raise millions of dollars you know and so it was just amazing okay so one years is hooked what do you years is and how long I'm out of college I have been doing I've been I opened up 80211 Business School so I've been doing this 15 years yeah designing like in the capital market space for about 12 okay so for some people who don't know what the capital market space is can you say then layman terms yeah so it is it's when companies want to go public or they want to be listed on the stock exchange or they want to raise money so that they can do the things that they want to do they have to go to investment bankers venture capitalists they have to make the case for why they are better than every other course in the race mmm it's it's the story so a lot is on the line there I see a lot is on the line yeah that's it okay it's it's billions of dollars billions and billions of dollars and it's people's jobs right these presentations are its people's jobs and it's people's pension funds right like this is it's it's a high-stakes thing to make a good investor mm-hmm okay great so I have a lot of questions for you but maybe we should get into your very carefully crafted presentation because I'm just dying to see it and I think there's quite a few people tuning in to see this it got a lot of traction and engagement on Twitter so I think there's an interest in like what the heck does this person do so let's let's get into it all right question these presentations that you're creating are they often shown during the investor relations calls is this I guess what is it the forum for these yeah so I'll do you ones for like annual general meetings where it's you know it's either a call or it's a large meeting where it's you know people saying this is how we did this is how our this is how our company is done this is how our girag has done those are really cool because they're kind of like little eventless right so you get to do the event design for it the ones that I love are and the ones that I get the most passionate about are the startups and the smaller companies who you know they have a really cool piece of science or they have like a really cool products and they need to raise their first round of funding so they're usually small meetings with you know two guys and an investment banker like put five people five people got it so very intimate small meetings yeah that's where billions of dollars are exchanging hands yep mmm and between the person who wants the money the person's going to give the money stands your presentation yep that's not riding on the line so do you feel that pressure yeah okay yeah so I'm I got a ton of questions about how one does this and the whole process but like I said I think I've teases three times now let's do it on the third try let's share your deck cuz I want to see it okay teach me please teach me please you see it we see it awesome yeah seven deadly sins the presentation design so just a quick warning I use sentence enhancers how do you know what that means you're gonna be here and there's a parental advisory above that right like come on yeah it's it's a I'm very no person and the people that I work with are the exact same way okay that's a you know that's what we fried on right mm-hmm so couple clients I've had a lot they're pretty fun things some when they were small and this is what I love to do I love to design investor decks I love to design investor decks like I said for small companies you have something really cool to say and they want to say it so that they can give people jobs and they can raise money and they can help you know cure cancer and diagnose dementia and relieve burden victims like there are so many cool things out there and it's the power of this deck this deck is what gets that market product to market mmm mm-hmm so my process and I think that you're gonna ask me a lot about my process right I have probably well I know you're going to so let's get into it yeah so this is what I do this is the essence of developing a presentation for meeting is listening to my clients distilling all of the information that they have because they have so much to say right developing a beautiful story designing a deck and then delivering it and supporting them through the process of the race so that's what I do every single time every deck hands down mm-hmm this man I loved him he's like like he is the best representation of me I live for Dwight Schrute and I hate him at the same time because you know what he said is this he said powerpoints or the peacock that the business world I'll show no meat oh that's it right hmm so I have to convince people that powerpoints are really fun and they're really cool and I love building them and there is a whole small sort of weird industry built around this and we we have them I think I I love my job I am so lucky that I get to do this for myself - you know like I get to work for myself do you exactly what I decided that I wanted to do for the rest of my life you know yeah yeah yeah yeah so I heard for me my sort of mantra around what a good deal is that an engaging presentation is not the end game in my job right I have an engaging presentation that's awesome because it is going to get people an invite to a meeting right it's gonna it's gonna get people interested in the you know in the product or the company but for me my presentations have to empower my clients to be engaging that's it you know any mean yeah if story to tell and if you make it a really good presentation it it lets somebody be confident right you listen to them you unravel like all the in their head and then you just you stay it back in this like beautiful story that is it has a clear structure right there are different ways to show that structure there are different you know it's always tailored to that person but a bespoke presentation empowers them okay Ashley yeah I'm sorry to interrupt you I'm reading comments on YouTube and a little bit on Facebook that there's some weird sound modulation so while you're sharing your deck because basically we can only see the deck why don't you meet my closer to your mouth just sweets because it's like rising and falling it's it's kind of strange considering you how very nice microphone I don't know what's going on let's go there because with this oh my gosh is so much better okay but don't hurt your neck doing that okay okay cool as long as you're not hurt we're good it's cuz it was like a foot away from you far away right yeah like I got this thing I don't know what to do just I'm gonna figure it out one day yeah we'll help you with that yeah I know you I'll make sure you did okay all right let's keep going then okay so how do we not screw these up right mm-hmm first first in is gluttony right mmm yeah this is lit that bullet point is not just a wife or thin guys it is big and it has impact so your clients are gonna have a lot to say and the first meeting that you have with them it's just it's usually like five guys around a boardroom and you walking in with me walking in say okay what are we going to talk about who do we have to reyes to you like what are we raising what's the story what's what's the endgame in this what do you want out of everything what's the science what what is really cool about you right what is it show me tell me tell me in seven words tell me and you know 10 seconds so that I can hear it right because they're gonna go into an investor presentation and that is 45 minutes of time and this one limb is an investment banker or an analyst and she she already knows about you she already done her due diligence she she is so smart the the women that I work with and the men that I work with are oh god they're so like they're so smart you know they're like they work with super forecasters they work with all sorts of different people to manage their funds they have like 20 deaths on their desk they have meetings like five meetings a day just of this right of people coming in saying this is why I want you to invest in me you know right and so you have that time but it's not actually 45 minutes right like it's actually you got 10 minutes in front you know to do your introductions you're gonna have 10 minutes in the back - you know how the Q & A talk to her about you know little details she's gonna have questions you're gonna have questions you have to do like the goodbye it was nice to meet you so you got 25 minutes hey a lot of time he's a whole gluttony thing it's like don't try to do too much because you really only have 25 minutes and don't do like give your investor the credit for having the intelligence those already do the research about you they're not walking to this meeting cold right they're not they're not and this is this is sort of like if you understand the amount of the actual amount of time that they have mm-hmm then it allows you to be more concise you know because that's 25 minutes yeah like that's 25 minutes to tell a person how your drug is going to diagnose cancer in a more advanced way or you know how you're gonna prevent dementia or like how you're gonna make you know you're gonna change the blockchain or and you still have to talk about how you're gonna raise the money you know how you're gonna how you're gonna make her money like exponentially better how you're gonna grow it yeah yeah so like you know you can't do it but I'm gonna use I love this I love being able to say like you have to be concise and you have to understand that she's already she already knows what you're doing right she already she they already know they already have seen you know ten of you and so how are you gonna stand above the rest and how are you gonna connect with her right so I use this this analogy that I learned a long time ago and I started tweeting it for myself but Gina the story the three little pigs of course everybody knows it'll pay you awesome awesome so if I came in to you and I said I've got this really cool story right hmm this is my story okay this is the story that I want to tell you okay and I want to make 45 million dollars for like this is this is full of jargon right it's got a ton of different information on it it's like three I got the three times rate of oxygen per puff I got 47 percent chance of huffing success you know my appetites get increased cheat three times each time I eat a pig and and these guys over here they're gonna like innovate by the hairs of their chinny chin chin so this thing is loaded with jargon it's just it's up she already knows the story all you have to say is this you know uh-huh that's it that emotional connection is huge so like make it clean make it consistent make it really concise and that is gonna make it compelling because it's gonna make you confident to tell your story I've never seen somebody make the Three Little Pigs story so complicated I thought this is about a vapor thing you know no this is the story of the three little pigs right I understand yeah five million dollars for three separate substrate property I get a strawberry home I get it I see okay I get it all right and this is you're kind of exaggerating to make a point here that people who don't know what they're doing tend to use jargon and bombard the viewer the investor the venture capitalist with too much information and they over complicate things and you're something like get down to what the story's about make it emotional maybe use an image or an icon or a metaphor so people understand yeah but exactly yeah it's it's the power of image and it's the power of people's experiences over what you're actually trying to say mmm right you know hard plus for me to make this time because this is like it's reverse engineering what I do you I'll take slides like this and then I'll find the actual store unit mm-hmm and then it allows somebody to talk they're having a conversation and they're not reading a slide so I have a question for you and we're kind of dipping into process now so if I'm you and I'm sitting across the table from five of these people trying to tell me yeah everything and too many things and giving me complicated spreadsheets and charts what are you what's going on in your mind that you're looking are you looking for a metaphor or something that's relatable to other people no so what I am looking for is I am looking well I'm listening and then I'm repeating it back to them yep right I'll take it I'll process the information and then I'll try and repeat it back in like sort of like the layman's terms and this is the the thing about experience right like there's a lot that goes into an investor deck that it's the back end right it's like how much money what are you raising what are your milestones what you know what what trial stages are you at like all that stuff I'm looking for the problem and I'm looking for how are we gonna solve it and why are you gonna solve it over everybody else mm-hmm okay but it's not just um it's not just listening you know it's watching and from that you use these four things right you use the power story and you link it to emotion you find a really good pattern and you pound that pattern in there right and you use but really you use everyday language like I have lived by this and I thank the man he taught me this a long time ago just to keep it clean and keep it simple and just say it like it you're their neighbor right that's it it's it's if you can say that then you're gonna you're gonna be so much more compelling and people are gonna want to listen here okay you know alright yeah yeah you said something that kind of intrigued me normally I tell people be really good listener and then you you said something about like you you observe and you watch what are you looking for yeah so I'm looking into the next ones right okay I'm looking into the next in which the next in is Envy and there's kind of two sides of the coin to this one envy and lust I put together so envy is when somebody they see that you know they see if this is why envy and lust are together it's because they they see a guy like Steve Jobs or they see musk or they at least see they watch other presentations and they think I have to do it just like them mm-hmm you know I have to be the paradigm shift the paradigm shift and I have to you know I have to be just like I have to emulate this person because that's the presentation style that is is gonna win me you know it's gonna win me the gold and I think that everybody wants to communicate and we all have our own style right so if I can do you my job well I can make them confident enough to do it in their style mm-hmm like less it's the same thing it's it's I know I love it this this for me is like when I watch my say I'm watching I'm watching own and I'm listening to the inflection in their voice right or I'm watching when they get excited you know I'm watching like if they say like wordy and I'd be able to like cheer 45 percent of this illness they get really like they get in there right and they they you can see like they they get flesh and they just like they know what they're talking about and their voice speeds up and they get excited so you know that that's something that's really they're really passionate about and you can take that and you can you know bring that out of them through what you're making with them great yeah that's what you're watching for okay that's what I'm watching for you're looking for that excited so that you know kind of where the passion is yeah and I think that every every designer when you're listening you should be not just listening to the the words coming out of their mouth you should be listening to how they're saying it right because that's that's that's that's sort of like the body language thing right it's it's the body language and the inflection and that that allows that you to get just as excited as them and then figure out like you know the nice nice places that you can can sort of work around and then you can see you like places that you have to build up a little bit mhm right yeah but like lust as well is as presentation designers our job is not in a design all around right our job isn't to design in our image you know this everybody knows this it's it's it's to empower them to do what they love you know and so like Patrick Swayze I idolized that he's beautiful damn but when I watched this yeah I'm watching Patrick Swayze I read a little bit but like Chris Farley is over there and relating him and the personality and the confidence yeah so you're saying to your client you don't need to be Patrick Swayze you could be Chris Farley you could shake yeah you can love it you can rub it and people are gonna fall in love with your personality exactly exactly exactly that's it yeah and for like the designers out there and the presenters listen and be genuine and be honest right lest lust and envy can do you a lot of things they can drive people to take information from other decks right if you've got a cannabis company they're like a hundreds of other cannabis companies but don't take information from their decks and put it into one because that just sort of it it's it's just make it make it for them make it for their information and their story and don't leave them you know sort of open to saying well that information you know that that rates from this person like why are you stealing than that you know mm-hmm it's aa loss don't rely on online templates guys don't do it don't rely on online templates because they are there they're made for documents when you break one open the Masters aren't there they're made for documents and yes they're beautiful but I think really good really good present patient signers we design each presentation that's that we make we make I make tons of of decks where we have to make 12 of the same deck right or we have to we have to make a deck for you know an a mutual fund company so we have to make like you know one for each fund so you make it consistent and you make sure your masters are tight right that's the rule mister spoke presentations always have clean masters you know don't be don't rely on the PowerPoint as your crutch you know it's it's a lot of the work it's it's also like don't start designing a presentation in PowerPoint because that's that's not that's not the story you know my my office is filled with post-it notes and index cards and I get like paper from Japan because it's it's sort of sized I found it in a store and I saw it I was like that's a 16 a night slide I'm gonna buy like 10 of those so now I go around like spend tons of money on this freaking paper because it's like oh it's the size of a slide and I love it and the people look at me like I'm like weird wait are these like cut down like smaller sizes or are they like full sheets do you have a piece I have five full sheets I have four by six index cards I've posted now yeah all different sizes yeah I take the index cards when I go on vacation because I know that I'm gonna draw a slide on the beach yeah I'll and personally I like three by five cards because they're pretty small they can fit in your pocket and I like using a sharpie because it forces you you can't write that much with a sharpie to kind of focus in on what the idea is you can't use too many words and then you can shuffle some cards around you can easily get rid of one so you don't become too attached an idea and you can just keep working with this you could be on the bus a plane you could be at lunch whatever you'd be working on the ideas yeah and if you if you take a look at it and you put on a wall right and you look at the slides you're not locked into that like layout mode and PowerPoint or you know where you are oh I gotta lay you see five and then you see another five you can sort of move it around and you can take a look at it like the foundation of a house right you can say okay I want this part to move sideways and then I want this part to move down like the flow of how you design a presentation is so cool because it's it's like it I take a lot of inspiration from movie titles you know I watch how they're made and I watch like how they bring like sound and emotion in and so sometimes I'll have like different songs on just to sort of get me into the mood of like what these guys are doing so that I can lock myself away and figure out the flow you know yeah yeah it's it's fun it's fun and yeah it's fun so Rath it's a wet cat okay angry wags not my cat no my cat's back behind me but it's about staying calm under pressure and not getting angry because you have to design something in you know in a constraint and the constraint is PowerPoint in this area in this space the majority of presentations are designed in PowerPoint now we won't hold that against you because I never keynote but basically do you prefer keynote but guess what half of the people on Bay Street or Wall Street don't have a you know they don't use keynote I know so Tex Tex they're gonna ask you for powerpoints because all our tech information yeah exactly we know right yeah news usually convert the keynotes into PowerPoint and then we have to fix it because it doesn't convert clearly yeah if you want to be a serious presentation designer you need to know PowerPoint up and down like I can I love being able to bust through a PowerPoint and you can break them apart there's code in there there's there's all sorts of really cool things that you can do in there and you can make things look just as good you know you really can can you show well can you give me example okay cuz I'm a die-hard Apple boy right so it's like my curse all right so you're you just kind of you just shot a shot across the bow there and you'll tell me later right right you'll school me later I will all right I will yeah you it's not for you okay it's not for you that's the thing it's and it goes into greed this is not about you and there's a lot of risk in this right this job is not easy and people who are really good at it we are we're like a combination where we're copywriting and we're strategizing and we have to be able to just sit and sit with a boardroom of you know lawyers and bankers and capital markets guys and hold our own you know because it doesn't matter that you know you've seen three presentations I've seen like over a thousand of them you know and those people that you're gonna go talk to you you've seen even more right so it's just okay if it I know that it takes it seems like there's a lot that can be like done in here really it takes a lot of a lot of work to be able to charge the rates that we charge mm-hmm you know so though you can't get yeah you can't get greedy and think I'm gonna charge this the amount of money because decks are easy they're not easy you know they're not yeah yeah and and like I said there's a lot of risk like if you put the wrong information in and the stock price goes down from like a buck 20 to 40 cents like is that on you you know like it's it's if they don't meet their raise because you know this you designed it an image design and they had to change information on the fly and they couldn't do it they lost their confidence right I lost their deal right yeah that's it it's it's there's a lot of humility in this job because like yeah you're never the smartest person in the room but you have to make sense of what they're saying and then fit it help help to fit into 25 minutes just help you know yeah yeah see it's also about this presentation is a presentation today is not the deadline for us because your client needs to rehearse they really need to rehearse so we it's like a week away all right yeah yeah you can't be greedy do you do you do the presentation for them with them you coach them through that you listen to how they present or your response to CDs what is this idea okay so I've got some clients who we work really closely together and yeah I love that like I love the clients like that because it's we're in like from the ground like the ground floor all right I got to sit in and see like okay this is what we're building and this is what we're doing and you know you you got to really see the story form other places other people I know amazing presentation coaches that we can call on and say okay this is this is who we want you to see go see them mm-hmm this is the story deck coupled with imagery and you may partner up with a coach a presentation coach and have them rehearse and practice with them so that they keep the the verbal and emotional part done right yeah you may not have a time you may not you you they may not want you to write it's it's you just you do what you can to help them out yeah okay pride hmm so to be a really good presentation designer you have to get used to some things okay this is this is the peacock you have to understand that your best work is going to you always hide under an NDA that's it okay that is a huge one your greatest work isn't gonna be shown you're well you're not gonna be able to show it that's the thing right you're you're going to be able to take a and put zeros into areas or you know like try to show that same story it's it's not the same so I've got tons of work that I can never show right and I have to be okay with that right but I have to be just as passionate about those jobs as all the other ones right like yeah TED Talks go online and they're shown and I love them I like like Nancy Drew is the queen of TED Talks I like that woman is amazing but I am totally fine because I'm so passionate about investor presentations that I'm fine with this and he needs to be fine with it too mm-hmm so you don't do TED talk Dex I would I would love to do them like I'd love to you you know more than just like TEDx kanata I loves you yeah I really would um this is just this is where I've fallen is investor presentations with the majority of them yeah yeah so I got another question for you in terms of price I told you before I was charging $10,000 and without revealing how much you charge I'm just letting people know it's in multitudes of that in terms of what Ashley's charging what's the what's the range in terms of if you actually learn how to craft stories and do what it is that you're doing we're not talking about learning the mechanics of doing a deck how much did somebody expect to make can you give us a ballpark range just so that people who are tuning into this have an idea you can make a lot of you can make a lot of money i I've seen presentations that are not just it's not just a one-man firm right which is where I would know right there they're paying like hundred thousand dollars for a deck Wow but not just a deck guys it's not just a jack it's the support it's yeah it's the you know the reviews it's the you know it's just a little support it's like it's you ha you're up like an IPO deck you were up at 5:00 p.m. 5:00 a.m. waiting for lawyers to give you changes yeah right you lose yourself right yeah it is it's it's you don't just abandon the the deck and go okay it's done it looks full it is like okay lawyers are gonna cut them back and give you tons of changes and you know is are gonna come in and they're gonna say well I think it should be like this or bankers are gonna give you different things like that there's a lot on the line for those millions of dollars millions of dollars yeah the value is there I think we as president we as presentation designers are helping raise billions of dollars like I said and the value in that clean story is where our value comes from okay great so you can make from a few thousand dollars to hundreds of thousands potentially and there's a wide gamut here so I have a question for you when a client comes to you they're they're doing an investor deck like in the capital market space that you're in how do you determine the price is that a flat fee or do you try to negotiate for a percentage of the money being raised I'm curious so I have a few tiers of different kinds that I'll do it depends on how much involvement there is right are we busting it down are we going in are we just doing a scrub do you already have it done do you just want to look a little prettier um do you want your information to be designed differently are we working with so the tech guys that I work with reads you amazing things if anybody wants to like push the limits and not just you a you know standard 1609 screen we have such cool things like we have tech from one of the guys that I work with where you can control a large screen with a wand so you can throw information like lighting information up as you're going and it's it's your your where you stand on stage shows where the the presentation is going to go you know like there's such cool things you can do short like this is this is where the cool is you know short throws you can do like we're doing like iPad apps as decks like you can do all sorts of cool and the more deep you get into the cool that's price goes up as well as you know what it's for like a small company coming in to do like a small raise I'm kind of like drop Leng where if if you've got a really cool idea and I love it and I'm in with you then I it's it's hard for me to resist you know do it for burritos I won't do it for a burrito I have it no I have a minimum a minimum well that's how traveling does it so what's the Canadian version I have a minimum engagement but it's it's hard not to wanna just like give them all the cool tack but right yeah it's like the like you get into stage design right getting in that design like this job allowed me to take it a good chunk of time off and does not lead do a volunteer I took almost a year off into the volunteer work for pride in Toronto like way back when it was ten years ago and I was able to do all of the creative direction for like one of the largest Pride festivals in the world so a power pointed a little bit and I did this and I got to see like the the under runnings of a large festival which empowered me to be able to do my job better know some people in a see your face it's not the easiest thing to do but again so what we'll do is is actually the rules if you've got a slide for up for more than five seconds go ahead and stop to share and cut back all right okay cool so you can live stream guys this is my first one I am like I'm not used to this yeah she's the first time I guys hey alright though though we're gonna do this alright InDesign PowerPoint keynote what do you think this is maiden imagine a world where Alexa debates sad well so this is a slide that these two slides are for somebody who was like we wanna reef how we communicate the you know the danger and the potential of artificial intelligence alright so I got to design a full like a concept events for them and say what do you did this like what if this was possible you know this is what artificial intelligence is gonna do for us like Alexa could debate Malcolm Gladwell if this is like could you imagine she imagined the day where Alexa debates the guy who invented the Internet come on wait PowerPoint keynote oh InDesign yeah you can Photoshop yeah all right PowerPoint this could've been a table but doesn't have to be right you can have like um 72 like this is what we have this is where we're going just written out on a table or you can show them right you can show them we're starting down here and we're gonna go up there like wait can you come back - I have a question for you are the sizes of the circles relative to the number they could be the circles change all the time right those numbers are always going to be changing okay you have to make sure this is the thing do it in PowerPoint because these guys are gonna change them so your job is to like make sure they're supported and they're not going to up but I don't think they're right so it's a it's a relative scale to kind of show you the concept not to say that yeah exactly million is that much bigger than the 70 the bigger information in this is like right now we're it's 72 thousand dollars guess what four years away look how big that is yeah that's that visceral reaction are you looking at the future spreadsheet in our projections like this right this is an example of this could have been a bar graph but instead we mirrored this to the mountain that these guys are drilling into you right it's just a little bit of visual pleasure that helps you belong you know is getting into information graphics that you're doing there yeah make it's it's it's cool like Maddie and relevant exactly making these things make putting it in context putting what you're saying into you like a real contact so like you get to photo like you're not just playing a PowerPoint I love it because you have to play in everything you know somebody on YouTube is saying Ashley speaks so boldly dropping some bombs in there too this is a simple slide this is the simple slide the information is laid bare that's what it is like that's it you know you see this growth it's the visual like it's a visual representation that with this cool opportunity you know that's it uh-huh you can talk about this a you know he can go in and he can say this he can talk and it's not it's not distracting from him you know yeah that's it you gets to do beautiful things like you got to take slides and then you get to like work them into you know this this is one that I did for like another conceptual event thing for another a very large like one of the big three kind of consulting firms management consulting firms yes and and like can you imagine if you had this an event and like everything was moving you get to do this regular piece they see the concepts they you feel like you can tell you know I was listening to classical music when I made this entire concept because that is what you need like you needs to have inspiration outside of that mm-hmm questions I got a couple questions back to that slide please so is this stock photography is this Commission photography where are you sourcing your images and then have some other questions after that so this is a blend of stock and just custom stuff right so the the actual base photo is a stock photo it's not a cheap stock photo but it's okay let's the thing that I took when I did this at first is we thought about like okay what's the the main thing that we want to display we looked at like idea of music right and harmonizing as a team so I thought oh you know what I love I love sound waves so what if I had sound waves travel through this entire event what if I make that sound wave the main focus in this entire concept through my creative so the sound waves travel through right I started looking for like these like stunning images like people who are you know dancing and playing by themselves because this is the thing we don't want to they didn't want to play for themselves anymore they wanted to really like converge all of this everybody together so that they weren't just like you know sort of playing like they were by themselves I don't need to work with you I don't need to work with you you yeah I'm better than you oh we can and this is that the results they can you find one tiny piece of her shoes even like the detail and taking her shoes and making them like the the brand color that you've come up with for your event like it's just one hit right right it it points it out I play with the type this slide is actually layered so it's layered where the woman and just see the transparency the sound waves are a trance they are like a transparent each yes he is transparent well he's his own layer right and that everything is layered on so that when you bring it into PowerPoint you can animate it you can do things with it right you're not like locked into image mm-hmm so you have to take the original stock image recolor rise it and then separate each layer part and then bring it back into reconstruct it right yeah yeah then you can mate so if they wanted to see how the the word amplify sits behind the ballerina that that type could change if they wanted to change that and yeah these sound waves can be animated Oh as an animated piece or you could animate it through PowerPoint that's yeah yeah you can take it into After Effects and you can animate it in what everything you bring it in as a movie no how often do you do that I'll I do these on I do em rarely I love doing them I love it if anybody out there needs like has a really cool that name I do you call this lady yep you're not pointing at me when you say call this lady right pointing at myself myself now I do wanna come back to the slide and talk about this and that if you have 25 minutes to make your point that means emmy-award every graphic every data point that you put in there every image has to be very considered and intentional that's why you can't just grab some crap stock image and just drop it in and just slop on a line in there because you've wasted that moment so you might neighbor on these these slides way more than you think so the process is first find the story what is going to matter to the investor what what are they passionate about and then find the appropriate ways to tell that story in structure in a way that drives an emotional connection and then find the images that amplify that and put it all together yeah exactly let's keep going don't don't worry about slide numbers worry about a story okay yeah like this is one that this is the same kind of thing yeah it's the same kind of thing it's like layering guys leymah same duck no different okay can you park about that deck for this room I love the integration of the topography the how it's hidden underneath or those shipping containers yeah yeah and then little hits of color and graphics kind of we this could be a transition interstitial graphic for a CNN breaking story the next mile good teams you don't just like do that like here's another simple this is like guess what year I did this in I want to end this because I want to have a conversation with you okay hey aren't you so many guess what you know these were done in yes how old these slides are other than the Ford there no they're 12 years old like but this is it it's like this has been a key for so long it's just like clear information guys but like thieves a long time ago we were like before all these we were hacking in like Photoshop and like bringing in all sorts of like shadows and like students like oh let's like make the slide numbers like little you know shopping carts and stuff so clever yeah exactly like this is like when you're selling CDs like we've been doing this for as long as look like people have been selling CDs you know like it's it's so much fun some of our scratching head what our CDs you know pre mp3 guys come on get with free mp3 all right so where's not been the share we got a bunch of questions for you and I have let's open it up to the the community I saw that somebody wrote in there it's just some really basic thing so let's try to get through as much of the questions that our audiences has been having on Facebook and on YouTube one of the questions was how do you deal with fonts being that you have to turn the deck over are you limited to the font so how do you handle that usually I'll make sure that the font is something that they're used to so it's Arial Helvetica you health attica's great um yeah it's got to be a system font unless you know exactly where they're going and exactly what computer they're on um they if we're doing PDF tax because we'll do interactive PDFs that gives us more freedom it depends but if you're signing somebody off to do you like a standard PowerPoint try to stick within the constraints this of no system fonts yeah it's a good yeah yeah do it there's another easier solution to I mean maybe you'll tell me no you just buy the font for the client you give it to them yeah what if they go to a conference and they want to have the deck put on their own so the techs want to have it on their own computer turn it to PDF but you're designing for a very specific use look you said what if you want one just a room right and one on the other side of the room and you're gonna raise a couple hundred million dollars so it's very purpose-built so if you were going to do a TED talk and there's certain requirements for that then you would do differently like you said if you convert it to PDF no problem but then you lose all your notes or the other yes right exactly and it's it's if you convert it so I I watched your rgd Ontario your RGD to design thinkers one okay yeah I did watch it I I got like I can watch them online because I'm part of it was taped yeah so it state exactly so here's the thing okay do you want to hear yeah you call you a little scared you really hit the new button I know you animated a slide because you were talking and I can sense the animation was happening but for me because it was a PDF piece I didn't see that animation to me as a presentation designer I would have asked is this conference being like webcast you know separately so they have a separate screen because then you know to design that information with those in mind yeah yeah yeah you're actually not calling me out believe it or not actually look at me and I right now what I'm about to argue with you wait I just I know I know but you just need to look into your camera or audience will see because your eyes are wandering all over the place so let me just tell you it is this is a failure on rgd not me because they didn't have me sign a contract saying do we have the right to use this so anytime I could say take that off I'd even know it's it's a surprise to me that actually that was filmed see so I give a presentation you have to actually get my consent in writing to be able to do that so the onus is on them not on me just say what let's don't take away my membership the president no no oh quicker okay let's keep going so we we took care of the font issues here's the big one do you do the research yourself like when you're talking about industries like medical devices and things that you know anything about how able to distill this into something are you do you have to do research is there a team how are you doing this so I'm okay so this is part of the thing right a presentation designers good people who develop these decks we are researching all the time we read the Financial Post I don't read a lot as many design and books as I should I read like I read Wired I read about you know cannabis tech I read about like emerging ecology you're on the merging yeah you read about like you read about cancer you read about you get yeah I took a job as the marketing director for a small mutual fund company so that I can learn financial compliance like that's the kind of stuff you have to know yeah and that's it right with these decks the detail in them is you me as like a high end like this is this is how deep I go is that my clients I don't know when to call them and say okay we need to update your deck because it's not compliance anymore because of the regulations in the area that you're living because those are the things that we bear in mind yeah I am researching constantly okay I'm an ADT person like I this is the variety and the small hits of information I thrive on it mm-hmm okay why don't we turn it over to mark who's been watching the feed on Facebook and YouTube Marcus what's a good question that people have been asking yeah well just generally speak a lot of people are fired up you got designers thinking that they have new opportunities I saw that to do so I think that's a great that the community is really you know what they smell amazing yeah well one of the questions here is how often are you in these meetings and in if you're not what's the process of training the person that is presenting good question good one good one Internet it's good so how often am I in an investor meeting with them yes never so no no never never no I send them on my way unless it's like if it's if it's Tunisia were you there we're in the back if it's a large you know a large gathering then we're there you know managing managing things and I'll always be sort of making sure that the deck looks good watching how they're presenting but it's it's when you review the deck with them when you form it those are the times that you get to sit with them and explain like this is why I chose this information here and this is why we're doing this here what do you think like how does this how does this resonate you to you right it has to resonate in them and then you if you've done your job well that confident confidence boost up and their CEOs the egos that are in this room are huge already in great ways so II just feel like you know sendin among away yeah power let him go like do it yeah but to know how to do that took a long time it took a long time alright I gotta say something on behalf of mark rough he says her eyes look so brave and she looks so ravishingly gorgeous I think he said it that way in the text window but I just like excuse me a little okay I got another question how often do these presentations usually take to do oh good one oh yeah so we I think about like how long it has taken some never it's there's never a 1 month timeline I never really got that um sometimes I will usually it's like two weeks I once designed a 74 slide PowerPoint in 48 hours I was fun yeah yeah I've done them in a day I've done them in a week I've done them over two months it depends but you're never it's usually about like once two weeks because they already have the plan they've already got their their tickets booked right there they're ready to go so yeah how are we gonna say it we got to raise the money now I've got a question how long does the review take when you're going over the sides with them like the meeting or the yeah when when you actually go to review you said you you have to review it with them how long does that take when you're like died I chose this for this reason and going through that three stay longer now it takes for me to walk somebody through through their death we've already had so many conversations before we actually go through the completed deck that it's usually about an hour so but that's because we had a three hour meeting in the beginning and we talk to them we showed them the information laid bare when we did the presentation right it's the same way that you teach how to do you know just general identity design you know you do the strategy and you do this style you do the same thing like you shows the information and you should throw the story and then you show that the way it looks and bring them together so let's have me about their final diet like they're good to go and they know what they're gonna say mm-hmm we did have a couple of questions around that process saying oh you you talked about building the narrative and that's very important versus how many slides you have in a deck he talked a little bit about the process of building that story with the client mm-hmm there's no one way to do it there's it's it's not a prescriptive way for me it's it cuz every single every single story is different right there are I have my own templates that I have built over time and I'm gonna try to release something that allows and helps other designers do this a little better eventually if I can get at the time to do it but yeah it's it's there are many different sort of opinions on the different structures right the different structure of strategy and flow and like you raise them up and then you bring them down and then you raise them up but one one like a pharmaceutical deck is structure than a mining deck right right we're a financial deck is different than a radius deck yeah so it's it's those first meetings and that first amount of research those are the really big pieces that show you how to make that narrative uh-huh make sense yes so I got a bunch of more questions for you here if I want to get started in doing what it is that you do what are some resources or things that you send me down a direction to help me out I wanna get started and if I'm already in this space how does one go about procuring clients like these investment bankers and people that are in the capital capital market space that you're talking about good question so its majority the the way that I got my clients is majority word-of-mouth up until now right it's um get partnerships make do do something for like a really good fight find a VC firm right and say hey if you if you're really good at doing one deck they're gonna be like hey I got another story this girl like she doesn't really well let's send them to her right that that that rolling snowball effect it's really powerful so do like that that's sort of it you have to get your foot in it I know it's hard to get your foot in the door for like your first couple clients and I really don't I I don't remember like how is it yet getting I I bought it when the capital markets firm I was really lucky alright I learned from the best guys like and and that was that was awesome because then wise people left that firm they would come to me and they say hey we I've got a client they need a Jack Jeebs time okay yeah and then that person would be like hey we've got we know people who have needed AK right so my my I love partnering with financial capital but venture capital firms because they're always getting people in wanting to raise money and they they know what if their story isn't good enough they can we'll work together mmm so you have an infinite supply of clients because there's a whole be somebody trying to launch the next breakthrough product medical procedure right I hope so I think so I mean yeah it'll be a sad day if there's no more innovation yeah and and I think that um I can see I've been wondering like is automation gonna happen for this but it Automation can only go so far to connect with other humans I don't think so there's so many complicated things here okay so look I got a couple things to point out here you mentioned this person's name before look if you want to get a start in this thing I would recommend you talk to the giant that's in the presentation design industry which is Nancy Duarte you can look up her TED talks start there she's reading a book called slide ology and hopefully Ashley will be writing a book or a kit or course or something like that and then you can learn from her okay so that's that's how you would do each start see here's the thing that I kind of sometimes I try to temper my reaction to these kinds of questions because if you want to get us started in anything all you have to do is type it in to Google and it just it irritates me sometimes that people are they have this big dream that they want to accomplish they want to learn something but they're just so freakin lazy to even try to type it in if you type in presentation design I wonder what you're gonna come up with or Ted powerful presentations and then she mentioned Nancy thwart and it's spelled dua RTE she's authored several books I have them all and you can get into that hearing we just fed like a whole bunch of business to her well you know I wanted somebody to do it just so you know then and here's the thing when I I started doing research for this show right I don't want to come in here flat-footed not know anything about it but it blew my mind that she has like a hundred people working for her and I know that's a good place to start doing an internship and your foot in the freaking door have a skill that is is marketable so that they'll bring you in maybe they just need you to design the graphs for a little while or maybe a really good writer and you have a year like award Smith that's your entry it's kind of shocking to me that you're an industrial designer classically trained and you made this transition if you want something you will find a way right so yeah it's that's it right the thing that I learned the most from that is that there's always a problem that needs to be solved yeah that's it that's what product design is right yes okay it's translated over there I want to ask you this because it's coming up here I just wasn't meant to be a XYZ show this is a Ashley Smithers show 18:21 what is up with a 1921 can you can you tell us the significance of that please yeah it's my birthday that's why it's how I came up with it yeah okay yeah I thought about changing it because I get it a lot like 1821 what happened in 1821 yeah like I you know like I've had like I've had little companies on the side but we named different things I always come back to this because that's where I I'm the happiest so I'm rolling with it you know yeah yeah yeah okay here's the thing that's you if you want to be a really good presentation designer like that's it there it's so hard to get designers to realize that PowerPoint is not a you know it's not evil it's not awful it's just another software right you can master it come see me okay yeah okay you're in Toronto and you know how to design PowerPoint like are you want to learn if you want to learn come and see okay talk to me well let's talk about your studio a little bit here you've been in business for 15 years and how many people are there just you tell me about your company structure yes so I am mostly a one-woman show um except that I have like a network of people that I call on I have an amazing presentation designer who just we crush it together right because you know how we sort of think along the same lines and so she's like she's like South Africa or something right now make it so I always I push I push things to her because they know that little I've done the story and then she can just like run with my concept and then I wake up in the morning and it's done she's she's done all the like the the grunt work and we just we can do that I have like amazing designers you know I I have them in my back pocket to call on I have copywriters but I really like I I do most do it myself like four decks yeah okay yeah are you looking to to grow your practice I am looking to grow yeah very sort of slowly I would like to be like you are covered in maple syrup you know what I mean that's that's kind of like that's it I there's a I yeah I want to grow that's that's why I'm coming to you dough work on talking you had this very happy confident bold just super awesome face on it soon ask you if you want to grow the eyebrows began to fertile together the the like I saw a little pain in there it's a lot that kind of working that but that's not what this episode is about right now this is very interesting because the two people I and no expert admittedly in this space are you and Nancy and then you you reference this other woman this is an industry ruled by women it feels like it yeah there are a lot there are a lot of men in here um I'm sure there are there they're mostly there they're usually across the table for me oh so do you have to have a thick skin guys you have a thick skin I've done this as a chick like you have to be able to go into the boardroom and I've had clients call me and they say I don't know how you controlled that board room full of egos but she did it yeah and it's fun because you're just letting them speak and listening yeah like maybe that's why we're so good at it because it's just just to listen it's not a competition for you to try to out ego those guys yeah no you know it's cuz they have something everybody has something to say yeah yeah okay any other questions I'll have a couple for myself so actually it sounds like you know you do this primarily on a freelance basis are there staff positions where people are doing this or is that typically the designers within those companies I started out as a staff position yeah it's and I'm not a freelancer I'm a business owner man yelling watch your language dude no no no I don't I don't really employee temporary employee yeah hell no mark slip now give him send all right news right now it's it's said that Jeff Bezos CEO of Amazon saying death to PowerPoint and I can see what reasons he is saying that I think he's alluding to the idea that he wants to stay mainly to narrative what's your take on it because I know that in the type presentations that you do it is essential to have some type of physical presentation for the investors in those situations mmm I like this I want to jump in here too so go ahead I just every like you can't not everybody is Amazon right this is the thing and this is something that I sort of have to say what every presentation is you know a projector and a shitty little Florida's three screen but not everybody is like Elon Musk with a 30-foot screen to drive a car on right so there's this balance and there's so many companies trying to tell their story you've got to have it online you got to have it like it's what people know and it's what they're like they're used to we do presentations like I was saying outside of it in this really cool platform where you know you can walk on stage and like move them around and you've got like your wands and you can throw information up but the technology is so expensive that it's not it's not accessible to everybody so powerfully stories man yeah keep using it yeah yeah okay so here's my point of view on this it's because powerpoint is synonymous with people who do spreadsheets and then counting things and they have given it a bad name so you heard that other expression death by a thousand paper cuts it's like death by a thousand poorly designed PowerPoint presentations like crime with too much information no story no soul no emotion and I've just been bored already yeah right because the business world uses PowerPoint or something like that to get a point across so when you hire somebody like Ashley as an independent contractor or business owner or Nancy or US or whoever else we're gonna help you tell that story so that it's more persuasive that's what we're trying to do so there's a lot of opportunity because you can only imagine how many thousands of PowerPoint decks are created every single day in America yep in the world there's a comic there's a comic strip that I used to hang over my desk and I need to find a little shitty version of it was the devil in Hell in Turin interviewing someone and the bottom it just says I need somebody skilled in the art of torture do you know PowerPoint and like that's pretty much I think that's it so I think Beezus is comment is really more about poorly designed presentations by boring people yeah and it's it's a Productivity killer it's poor communication and I love what you write on your LinkedIn profile right Ashley says she takes the board out of board room but don't ya ordem I take the boredom out of the boardroom yeah Marcus you fix your mic issue get that thing close to your face dude come on how's this yeah much better yeah put your bear away all right what else we got we're gonna wrap this up pretty soon so you guys any last questions let's scan Facebook and YouTube I don't see what else we got what else can you tell us give us a give us another hot tip yes hot tip please give you a hot tip that isn't like my secret sauce there's no secret come on if you take a PowerPoint file right change the end of it yeah you can't you do it on a Mac man you I do it on PC okay I won't hate you going okay take PowerPoint file turn the dot p PT 2 dot zip right unzip it all your shits in there if you want to like extract all the information and the photos out of there skip it turn into two dots up on the unpackage it and then like all your media is in there all the code is in there for your templates everything's in there mmm okay I'm gonna tell you how to be on the Mac side for a keynote you right click on it on your keynote file and you say show package contents and boom all your stuff is in there too yeah but on the Mac so you can't put it back together there PC you can put it back together PC and play with it you can put it back together okay we'll just leave it there all right so I know how to end this possibly unless Mark comes in with a really great question let's say that you're teaching a class on presentation design at some procedures to sign school somewhere and I asked you this question professor can you tell us the five things that you're looking for when you're reviewing PowerPoint presentations what are you looking for it tell me the five things that you're scanning in your mind to determine if it's a good or poorly designed PowerPoint presentation are they just handing me a Decker and a presenting let's say they present it because the PowerPoint requires people to talk about it as well right it's not always just a slide mm-hmm okay so what are the five things you're looking for I'm looking for clarity clarity I'm looking for the story first I don't want somebody to come in and just introduce themself and tell me about them right because I don't I want to hear what you have to say okay I'm looking for a really clean design I'm looking for consistency I'm looking for you know making sure that everything is the same makeup says if you use titles I want to see them crisp and clear I'll ask you if i teaching a presentation in design class and you're done your presentation will say show me know master let me see it okay show me the master the master oh you mean I am yeah yeah okay and I wanted to I wanted to be genuine I want to be able to take that story and talk about it wouldn't go for beer after work you know because that's the thing that that's where the everything happens is like oh I got a great story to tell you it's not oh I've got this really cool technology to show you it's like the deck makes you say hey I got a great story to tell you you hear this I got a great story mm-hmm okay I'm working on the show notes right now as we are talking that's why I'm a little distracted mark you got a question for it thank you for doing that by the way Marcus what do we got well we were just talking about the use of tools in PowerPoint keynote but are there any other tools that you'd recommend to use to create things like the infographics that you'd shown yeah I use illustrator all the time sweet that's what she's saying yeah exactly exactly if you have the skill to juice like yeah there's tons I am constantly making sure that I'm on my game with my design skills because this is therea they're out there yeah well I've seen a cool piece of software called Prezi have you guys used that or how to use that actually I don't like it don't like it there's also Google slides people who I with lights yeah whatever is there yeah press there I like PowerPoint and Keynote because it just it's consistent there's no surprises people yeah let's stick with those I have a thing and let's stick with those yeah okay all right I think that's that's it I'm gonna do my show review before we say goodbye to Ashley and thank her for being on the show just hang on for a second let's let me pull this up here boom all right here we go guys here are my show notes first realize that you only have 25 minutes to get somebody's attention even though it's a 45-minute meeting that's the real meet that you have so that means you must be a very judicious editor cut everything else out except for what's really important well what's important here's the step 1 listen be a good listener don't worry about the egos in the room just tune in to what's important read the person watch them how the inflection the words that they use that's where you know the story is going to be and then distill this into something well how do you distill this you need to be well read yourself you have to be sort of knowledgeable in the field that you're going to be working with so that you're not doing catch up what is that all for is to develop a story a really compelling story that's driven by emotion that's genuine and then you got to get into the craft make it look beautiful make it consistent really design all the graphics and realize that make every frame count and the last part is help your clients rehearse or if it's you doing this rehearse rehearse rehearse work out the kinks and refine that thing polish that diamond off five things that miss a professional professor Ashley Smithers is going to be looking for in your PowerPoint presentation is one clarity make sure it's frickin clear start with the story story first find the hook get me interested don't talk about yourself it's not about you put the pride away three make it clean clean design clean masters makes Ashley a happy woman four be consistent find ways to link to typography the color palette the visual language with the brand be consistent and the whole point of it is to make it shareable is there a story and don't use shitty stock photography okay so you guys are sitting there thinking oh my god $100,000 deck and all I have to say to that is hells yeah wowza hells yeah and all you need to do is forget about what you heard about PowerPoint or keynote or anything it's all about telling good stories miss Ashley owns the studio called 18:21 her time of birth and if you want more information about Ashley visit 18:21 CA cuz she's Canadian all right and you can head over on instagram and twitter at 1821 studio and you can also find on be hands at 1821 studio so actually i just want to say thank you very much for coming on the show and it's a it's an honor and it's a it's a privilege to talk to you and i think there's a lot more dialogue you and i have to have because i need some of those secrets i want to level my game and and that's what I'm interested in so thank you very much guys give her a round of applause well everybody in right now all right excellent thank you very much and I'm gonna take us out of this show now so stick tight I'm gonna talk to you after the show [Music]