Transcript for:
Experiential Learning on Racism and Discrimination

27 years ago when civil rights leader Martin Luther King Jr. was assassinated grief and frustration erupted in America's cities Far away in Iowa, one third grade teacher knew she had to do something. The shooting of Martin Luther King could not just be talked about and explained away. There was no way to explain this to little third graders in Riceville, Iowa.

I knew that it was time to deal with this in a concrete... not just talk about it, because we had talked about racism since the first day of school. This is a fact.

Blue-eyed people are better than brown-eyed people. It was a daring experiment in prejudice. I watched wonderful, thoughtful children turn into nasty, vicious, discriminating little third graders. Can one teacher in one day change the lives of her students forever? Tonight, a class divided.

August 1984. A high school reunion brings some 50 former students to Riceville, Iowa. Eleven of them, some with their spouses and children, arrive early for a special reunion with their former third grade... teacher, Jane Elliott.

Oh, Jane! I made it! I'm so delighted.

And this is my husband. This belongs to you. This is my husband, Tom.

Tom. Brian. I don't have one. Oh, Oh, you're fine.

I'm just... Roy Wilson. I made it.

You darling. Oh, Roy. Been a long time. Been here. I'm so glad to see you.

That's great. I didn't think I would either. How are you doing?

Fine. It's been a long time since I've seen you. Yeah, it's been. Where are your little ones? They're at home with Mom.

It's coming down. And this is your husband? Yeah, that's Greg. Greg Rollins.

Greg Rollins. I'm nice to him. Fourteen years earlier, when they were students and are thirty... third grade classroom, ABC News filmed a two-day exercise for a documentary, The Eye of the Storm. Now, at their request, they will see that film again and relive the experience of her unique lesson in discrimination.

Sweet home. This is a special week. Does anybody know what it is?

National Brotherhood Week. What's brotherhood? Be kind to your brothers. Okay, be kind to your brothers.

Like you would like to be. Treat everyone the way you would like to be treated treat everyone as though he was your Brother and is there anyone in this United States that we do not treat as our brothers The black people Who else? Indians?

Absolutely the Indians. And when you see, when many people see a black person or a yellow person or a red person, what do they think? Oh, look at that. Look at that.

Dumb people. And look at the dumb people. What else do they think sometimes?

What kinds of things do they say about black people? Oh, call them Negroes, niggers. In the city, many places in the United States, how are black people treated? How are- Indians treated how are people who are of a different color than we are treated they don't get anything in this world why is that because they're different color you think you know how I would feel to be judged by the color of your skin yeah I don't do you think you do no I don't think you would know how that felt unless you had been through it would you it might be interesting to judge people today by the color of their eyes would you like to try this? Sounds like fun doesn't it?

Since I'm the teacher and I have blue eyes I think maybe the blue-eyed people should be on top the first day. I mean the blue-eyed people are the better people in this room. Oh yes they are.

Blue-eyed people are smarter than brown-eyed people. I got stupid. Is your dad brown-eyed?

Yeah. One day you came to school and you told us that he kicked you. He did.

Do you think a blue-eyed father would kick his son? My dad's blue-eyed. He's never kicked me. Greg's dad is blue-eyed. He's never kicked him.

Rex's dad is blue-eyed, he's never kicked him. This is a fact. Blue-eyed people are better than brown-eyed people. Are you brown-eyed or blue-eyed? Why are you shaking your head?

Are you sure that you're right? Why? What makes you so sure that you're right?

The blue-eyed people get five extra minutes of recess while the brown-eyed people have to stay in. The brown-eyed people do not get to use the drinking fountain. You'll have to use the paper cups. You brown-eyed people are not to play with the blue-eyed people on the playground because you are not as good as blue-eyed people.

The brown-eyed people in this room today are going to wear... colors so that we can tell from a distance what color your eyes are. On page 127? 127. Is everyone ready?

Everyone but Laurie. Ready Laurie? She's a brown-eyed.

You'll begin to notice today that we spend a great deal of time waiting for brown-eyed people. The yardstick's gone. Well, okay.

I don't see the yardstick. Do you? It's probably over there.

Hey, miss, you better keep that on your desk so the brown-eyed people get out of hand. Oh, you think if the brown-eyed people get out of hand, that would be the thing to use? Who goes first to lunch? The blue-eyed. The blue-eyed people.

No brown-eyed people go back for seconds. Blue-eyed people may go back for seconds. Brown-eyed people do not. Brown-eyed. Don't you know?

Oh, they're not smart. Is that the only reason? It might take too much.

It might take too much. Okay, quietly. And it seemed like when we were down on the bottom, everything bad was happening to us.

The way they treated you, you felt like you didn't even want to try. try to do anything. Seemed like Mrs. Elliot was taking our best friend's wife from us. What happened at recess?

Were two of you boys fighting? Yeah. Russell and John were.

What happened, John? Russell called me names and I hit him. Hit him in the gut.

What did he call you? you? Brown eyes. You call him brown eyes? They always call us that.

Yeah. They get all of the boys call us that. They keep calling us brown eyes. They say come here.

Brown eyes. Then they would call us blue eyes. I wasn't. Sandy and Donna were. Yeah.

What's wrong with being called brown eyes? It means that we're stupid. Well, not that. Oh, that's just the same way as other people call black people niggers. Yeah.

Is that the reason you hit him, John? Did it help? Did it stop him?

Did it make you feel better inside? It stopped for a second. Did it make you feel better inside? Did it make you feel better to call him brown eyes?

Why do you suppose you call him brown eyes? Probably because he has brown eyes. Is that the only reason he didn't call him brown eyes yesterday and he had brown eyes yesterday? Didn't he? Because we decided that.

Yeah, ever since you put those blue things on there. I'm gonna tease him. I'm gonna tease him.

Oh, is this teasing? No. Well, he did it. Were you doing it for fun, to be funny, or were you doing it to be mean?

I don't know, don't ask me. Did anyone laugh at you when you did it? I watched what had been marvelous, cooperative, wonderful, thoughtful children turn into nasty, vicious. discriminating little third graders in a space of 15 minutes. Yesterday I told you that brown-eyed people aren't as good as blue-eyed people.

That wasn't true. I lied to you yesterday. The truth is...

That brown-eyed people are better than blue-eyed people. Russell, where are your glasses? I forgot them.

You forgot them? And what color are your eyes? Blue.

Susan Ginder has brown eyes. She didn't forget her glasses. Russell Ring has blue eyes.

And what about his glasses? He forgot them. He forgot them. Yeah.

Yesterday we were visiting and Greg said, boy, I like to hit my little sister as hard as I can. That's fun. What does that tell you about blue-eyed people? They're naughty. In fact, they fight a lot.

The brown-eyed people may take off their collars and each of you may put your collar on a blue-eyed person. The brown-eyed people get five extra minutes of... recess. You blue-eyed people are not allowed to be on the playground equipment at any time.

You blue-eyed people are not to play with the brown-eyed people. Brown-eyed people are better than blue-eyed people. They're smarter than blue-eyed people. And if you don't believe it, look at Brian. Do blue-eyed people know how to sit in a chair?

Very sad. Very, very sad. Who can tell me what contraction should be in the first sentence?

Go to the board and write it, John. Come on, let's do it again. Loosen up.

Up, up, up. Come on. That's better.

Now, do you know how to make a W? Okay, write the contraction for we are. Now that's beautiful writing!

Is that better? Yes! Brown-eyed people learn fast, don't they?

Yeah! Boy, do the brown-eyed people learn fast! Very good! Greg, what did you do with that cup? Will you please go and get that cup and put your name on it and keep it at your desk.

Blue-eyed people are wasteful. Okay, you want to be timed this morning? Yeah. Abe. I use Orton-Gillingham phonics.

We use the card pack. And the children, the brown-eyed children, were in the low class the first day. And it took them five and a half minutes to get through the card pack.

The second day it took them two and a half minutes. The only thing that had changed was the fact that now they were superior people. You went faster than I've ever had anyone go through the card pack. Why couldn't you get them yesterday?

We had those collars on. You think the collars kept you through? We just keep thinking about those collars. Look at what I did. I kept getting rolled around.

Oh, and you couldn't think as well with the collars on. Four minutes and eighteen seconds. I knew we weren't going to make it.

How long did it take you yesterday? Three minutes. Three minutes. How long did it take you today?

Four minutes and eighteen seconds. What happened? Went down.

Why? What were you thinking of? This.

I hate today. How do you do? I hate too.

Because I'm blue-eyed. See, I am too. It's nothing, it's not funny, it's not fun, it's not pleasant.

This is a filthy, nasty word called discrimination. We're treating people a certain way because they are different from the rest of us. Is that fair?

No. Nothing fair about it. We didn't say this was going to be a fair day, did we?

No. And it isn't. It's a horrid day.

You ready? What did you blue... people who are wearing blue collars now find out today? I know what they felt like yesterday. I did too.

How did they feel yesterday? Like a dog on a leash. Yeah.

Like you chase them off. Like you chase them off. Wherever you go. Like you chase them off.

Like you chase them off. your channel now up into prison and you're throwing the key away. Should the color of some other person's eyes have anything to do with how you treat them? No.

All right, then should the color of their skin? No. Should you judge people by the color? No.

Love their skin? No. You're going to say that today and this week and probably all the time you're in this room. You'll say, no, Mrs. Elliott.

No. Every time I ask that question. No, Mrs. Elliott. When you see.

A black man, or an Indian, or someone walking down the street, are you going to say, Ha ha, look at that silly looking thing. No. Does it make any difference whether their skin is black or white? No.

Or yellow? No. Or red?

No. Is that how you decide whether people are good or bad? No. Is that what makes people good or bad?

No. Let's take these collars off. What would you like to do with them?

Throw them away. Go ahead. Go ahead.

In the pit? Don't eat them like grapes. Now you know a little bit more than you knew at the beginning of this week? Yeah.

A lot. Do you know a little bit more than you wanted to? Yes, Miss.

This isn't an easy way to learn this, is it? No, Miss. Oh, well, you stop that. Okay, now, let's all sit down here together. Blue eyes and brown eyes.

Does it make any difference what color you are? No. Down, girl.

Not up, down. Okay. Good to see you again. Oh, you found your friends, huh? Yeah.

Oh, my friends are here. Now, you're getting there. You're getting there.

What? Okay, you ready to listen now? Okay, now are you back? Yes.

Does that feel better? Yes. Does the color of the eyes that you have make any difference in the kind of person you are?

No. No. Mrs. Now, we're back.

Does that feel like being home again, girls? Yes. Oh, wait.

Oh, wait. This was the third time Jane Elliott had taught her lesson in discrimination. The first, two years earlier, was in April of 1968. On the day after Martin Luther King was killed, one of my students came into the room and said they shot a kinglamp. night mrs elliott why'd they shoot that king i knew the night before that it was time to deal with this in a concrete way not just talk about it because we had talked about racism since the first day of school but the shooting of martin luther king who had been one of our heroes of the month in february could not just be talked about and explained away there was no way to explain this to little third graders in riceville iowa as i listened to the white male commentators On TV the night before, I was hearing things like, who's going to hold your people together as they interviewed black leaders? What are they going to do?

Who's going to control your people as though this was these people? were subhuman and someone was going to have to step in there and control them. They said things like, when we lost our leader, his widow helped to hold us together.

Who's going to hold them together? And the attitude was so arrogant and so condescending and so... so ungodly that I thought if white male adults react this way what are my third graders going to do how are they going to react to this thing I was ironing the teepee we studied an Indian unit we made a teepee every year the first year the students would make the teepee out of pieces of sheet we'd sew it together and the next year we'd decorate it with Indian symbols I was ironing the previous year's teepee getting it ready to be decorated the next day and I thought of what we had done with the Indians we haven't made much progress progress in these 200, 300 years.

And I thought this is the time now to teach them really what the Sioux Indian prayer that says, oh great spirit keep me from ever judging a man until I have walked in his moccasins really means. And for the next day, I knew that my children were going to walk in someone else's moccasins for a day. Like it or lump it, they were going to have to walk in someone else's moccasins.

I decided at that point that it was time to try the eye color thing, which I had thought about many, many times, but had never used. So then So the next day I introduced an eye color exercise in my classroom and split the class according to eye color and immediately created a microcosm of society in a third grade classroom. Riceville hasn't changed much in the 17 years since then. It's still a small farming community surrounded by corn fields.

Its population is still under a thousand and it's still all white and all Christian. Even though Jane Elliott has continued to To teach her lesson in discrimination, there's been little outward local reaction. No objections from school authorities or the parents of the 300-odd students who have by now been through it. Okay, let's get in a circle.

The reunion of her former third graders was Jane Elliott's first chance to find out how much of her lessons her students had retained. All right, now, Raymond, why? I want to know why. You were so eager to discriminate against the rest of these kids. At the end of the day, I thought the miserable little Nazi.

Really, I just, I couldn't stand you. It felt tremendously evil. You could, all your inhibitions were gone.

And no matter if they were my friends or not, any pent-up hostilities or aggressions that these kids had ever caused you, you had a chance to get it all out. I felt like I was a king, like I ruled them brown eyes, like I was better than them, happy. You know?

And you did it all day. Yeah. How did you feel when you were the actor? out group. Boy, that day after we went home, they talk about hating somebody.

It was there. You hated me. Yeah, of what you were putting us through.

Nobody likes to be looked down upon. Nobody likes to be hated, teased, or discriminated against. And it just boggles up inside of you. You just get so mad.

Were you just angry, or was there more than that? I felt demoralized. humiliated is the learning worth the agony yes it made everything a lot different than what it was you we was a lot better family altogether even in our houses we was probably because it it was hard on you when you have your best friend one day and then he's your enemy the next it brings it out real real quick in you i i don't know some of the remarks were the kinds of things i would have wished i could have programmed into them if i had been able to program them they're the things i would have wanted them to say some of the things were just mind-blowing you know you hear these people talking about uh you know different people how they're you know they're different and they'd like to have them out of the country i wish they go back to africa you know and stuff Sometimes I just wish I had that collar in my pocket, I could whip it out and put it on and say, wear this and put yourself in their place. I wish they would go what I went, you know, do what I went through.

We was at a softball game a couple weekends ago, and there was a black young, hi, Verlaine, and we hugged each other and everything, and some people really looked just like, what are you doing with him, you know? And you just get this burn. burning feeling, sensation in you, you just want to let it out and put them through what we went through to find out they're not any different. I still find myself sometimes when I see some people together and I see how they act, you know, I think, well, that's black. And then right in the next second, I don't even finish the thought.

I'm saying, well, I've seen whites do it. I've seen other people do it. It's not just the blacks. Everyone acts differently.

It's just a different color is what hits you first. And then later, as I said, I only finished. that thought before I remember back when I was like that and I remember not you know everyone acts the same way it's just your way of thinking is the difference like when my grandparents are somebody and they start talking about old times and they say the Japs and all this and that and they start you know holding that against them I think how would you like to have been them Japanese Americans get drawn into this camp just because they happen to be part Japanese you know I just calm down and think about but when they get older, they're set in their ways and they're not gonna change.

When you get older? I'll be set in my ways, but they're different than their way. I was absolutely enthralled. Sandy Dolman's statements that when my son comes home with the word nigger and the other things that he hears downtown, I say to him, listen, that isn't the way we judge people.

You don't judge people by how they look. You judge them by what's on their inside, not their outside. I'm glad that she's teaching me. teaching them not to hate because even though he does hear this from the other people he if he goes home and he thinks well mom and dad like the black people i'm gonna like him too so i don't think he's gonna pick nothing bad up out of it you chose your husband well he chose me you chose little kids will take and you know they'll listen to a lot of other People do and so they're gonna end up kind of confused over it. But if she keeps on telling him, is he going to be the kind of person you kids are? Or is he going to be the kind who judge people by the colors?

Well, he'll know somewhat right from wrong. He'll know that he won't. But he'll have the ideas.

He won't be judging them by their color, but he won't know what we know fully, having been through it. He won't learn their color from them. The prejudice from us. He won't learn prejudice first-handed.

Yeah. He won't learn to be prejudiced from us. I mean, they won't learn to discriminate between people from us. He might hear it from others, but never from us. Okay, what's it like to be married to somebody like that?

When I was going to marry Sheila, I knew for my future that I was going into the military. At first, I thought, is she going to be able to... Handel, being with all the different nationalities, and then I read the storm, read the book. A Class Divided. A Class Divided, before we got married and before I joined the Army.

And I said, hey, she's not going to have any problems. Should every child have the exercise or should every teacher? Everybody. Everybody, not just...

I think every school ought to implement something like this program in their early stages of education. If Jane Elliott's lesson in discrimination changed the way these young people feel about discrimination and racism, it also had a totally unexpected result. The second year I did this exercise, I gave little spelling tests, math tests, reading tests, two weeks before the exercise, each day of the exercise and two weeks later. And almost without exception, the students'scores go up on the day they're on the top, down on the day they're on the bottom, and then... then maintain a higher level for the rest of the year after they've been through the exercise.

We sent some of those tests to Stanford University, to the psychology department, and they did a sort of an informal review of them. And they said that what's happening here is kids'academic ability is being changed in a 24-hour period, and that isn't possible, but it's happening. Something very strange is happening to these children because suddenly they're finding out how really great they are, and they are responding to. what they know now they are able to do. And it has happened consistently with third graders.

The film made of Jane Elliott's third graders in 1970 has been widely used with students and teachers, and by government, business and labor organizations concerned about human relations. Perhaps the most unusual use of it is here, at Greenhaven Correctional Facility, a maximum security prison in Stormville, New York. Here, in a sociology course taught by Professor Dwayne W. Smith of Dutchess Community College, his almost exclusively black and Hispanic classes have been seeing the film for more than ten years. What I'd like to do is...

has introduced the subject of prejudice and discrimination through this film, called The Eye of the Storm. They are more civilized than brown-eyed people. Sandra and her brown-eyed friends didn't like that day, but Raymond did. I felt like I was like a king, like a... You think the children by this process really learned the meaning of discrimination?

Most of the children before the film started, they had played and lived together in harmony. I was like, I'm not going to play with you. and a certain action of coming from the teacher and seeing the teacher as an authoritarian figure and someone to respect, they accepted the views that was being given to them.

But I think at the end of the lesson they could clearly see that prejudices and other forms of discrimination are things that people build within their minds, that they're not actual physical barriers that say, yo, you can't cross the street. The one kid I could really agree with was... at recess, he was a brown eyed kid. He had this inner turmoil against this feeling of being divided or prejudiced against where he would hit another kid that he's known for so many years in the gut.

Whether he or. Also stated that it didn't help any. So that automatically should be a lesson to every adult in the world.

Violence doesn't help any. And, you know, this is a film that I hope that my children get to see. Unlike New York, Iowa is 98% white Anglo-Saxon. Yet even here, minority groups account for more than 20% of the prison population.

To make sure its prison system employees are sensitive to the concerns of this large... minority, the Iowa Department of Corrections last fall hired Jane Elliott to give her lesson to some of them. The group, which included prison guards and parole officers, was told only that it would be attending a day-long workshop.

David Stokesbury. Most of our training you go to, people give you information and you learn that way. When I first came with the sign up and and such and got put in the group I didn't know. When I started seeing the signs around brown eyes only and such, I figured they were the better group, because they had a lot of spaces available, and there were none for the blue eyes.

So when I got put in the blue eyes group and put the collar on, then I knew, well, then I was going to be in the deprived group, I guess. OK, now you can stay in this area. The workshop was supposed to begin at 9. Now they took me to the next room.

He took the brown eyes in about 9 and then left us standing in the hall. I literally stood because there weren't enough chairs, and I didn't know whether or not I'd want to fight to take a chair down. I didn't know if somebody would come and take the chair away from me if I did. While David Stokesbury and the other blue-eyed people waited inside the meeting room, Jane Elliott prepared the brown-eyed people for what was going to happen. Now, this is not something I can do alone.

This exercise won't work without your cooperation. Blue eyed people aren't allowed to smoke. Blue eyed people aren't allowed to sit in these empty chairs. Do not let a blue eyed person sit next to you. You know you can't trust them.

And besides which, they don't smell good. Everybody knows that about blue eyed people. know what you can catch from a blue-eyed person. By 9.20, I felt some antagonism. You know, I'm stuck out here for 20 minutes standing, waiting.

Still say we ought to see what kind of reaction we'd get by everyone just simply going in. No one wants to do it? Everybody seems to have courage in their convictions.

You have to do a lot of talking before......you make nobody take any action....oppose them by all singing a song and playing something really loud, you know. We shall overcome. Yeah, right?

I need to have you keep it down. I don't know how many times I need to give that instruction, but you need to keep it down so you don't bother the people in the workshop. I was pretty well ticked off by the time we got there.

taken in there. A person's an overcoat to a corner of your face. I need to have you put your purse and your coat in the corner. A person's an overcoat to a corner of your face.

It would be to your advantage in the future, people, if you'd get to meetings on time. It would also be to your advantage if you'd put your gum away. Put your gum away. Oh, please. You want to get paid for today?

Well, then stay, but put your gum away. I don't have a purse, so I don't have a place to put my gum. I'm sure that you are inventive enough to find a place for the gum.

Now, I'd like for you to notice where she put her gum. You have this problem with blue-eyed people. You give them something decent and they just wreck it.

You'll also notice that blue-eyed people spend a lot of time playing look at me, see how cute I am. I can be funny, I can make a joke of this. This is amusing, I'm amused by this. this another thing that is obvious about blue-eyed people is that they're poor listeners the first thing you have to do when you get when you're teaching in a segregated situation when you're working in a segregated situation is teach the listening skills the listening skills are number one good listeners have quiet hands feet and mouths everyone needs to write these down I'd like for you to look at the man in the back in the black jacket The game we're playing is playing it cool.

This is a favorite blue-eyed game, playing it cool. Nobody can bother me, man. I can handle this.

I don't have to do this. I'm going to ignore this whole thing. Number two, good listeners keep their eyes on the person who is speaking. I take it you don't have a pencil. No.

Nor you? No. Perhaps you could borrow one from one of your neighbors. Sir, I realize that you feel that you don't need to write it down.

But whether or not you write it down, perhaps you could remember it. Good listeners have quiet hands, feet, and mouths. Do you know what that means? I'm not sure. I believe that.

Do you want me to explain it to you? That's okay. I'll get a pencil and write this down directly. Look, blue-eyed people, many of you have pencils.

Will one of you please lend him a pencil, or don't you trust him? Which I can understand. From the last 10 minutes, what have you observed about blue-eyed people? Blue-eyed people are very stubborn, very self-centered, and wish to control as much of their surrounding as possible.

People that wise, I mean. Very inconsiderate people. I don't even know why you have them here in the first place. We have them here because we are required to have them here.

We have to. This is one of the things you have to put up with. Number three.

Good listeners, listen from the beginning to the very end. Okay, good listeners, decide to learn something. And this is the thing you'll have the most difficulty with with blue-eyed people. They decide not to learn something.

Some of you have had trouble with blue-eyed people in your home environment. Some of you have had trouble with blue-eyed people in your workplace. Does anybody have an example of that that they'd like to share? to talk about.

Anyone? I have two nephews and one's blue eye and one's brown eye. And the blue eye one, like he never cleans his room and he's real lazy. And the brown, you know, he doesn't seem to have a lot of energy the blue-eyed one but the brown-eyed one he's real outgoing and he plays in sports and then he's pretty good at it you know he just seems like a better kid so if I have kids I hope they have brown eyes you are you buried no then it's a good thing you don't have kids in it right well you will know what to do when it's when you choose a mate right would you like to read that first listening skill to me I haven't got on my paper yet oh why is that that?

I haven't borrowed the pencil to write it down as yet. Do you think it's unnecessary? At this particular point, yes, I do.

Why? I have it in my head for the most part. There's a lot of space up there for it, isn't there, friend? Do you suppose you could tell me what it is? It has something to do with keeping your hands and feet still.

It has something to do with that. I find it interesting that you're amused by our having to stand here and wait for this man to do something that everybody else has already done. I find that highly interesting. Stupid, but interesting.

If you are in a situation where someone is constantly, constantly refusing to do what the people in authority ask them to do, what do you know about it? What do you know about that person? Well, I think it's a game with them, attention.

Has it gained anything for this gentleman? Disrespect from, I think, the brown-eyed people. Has it proven anything to brown-eyed people?

Yes, this is a typical trait of a blue-eyed person. I'll read the second one. I don't have the second one.

Can I read it off first? You don't have the second one either. You were keeping it in your head.

What happened to that plan? Just the first one I had in my head, not the second one. Oh, and the other three aren't important? Well, they're probably important. But not important enough for you to write down, right?

Well, they're important. I should have written them down most probably. Most probably?

Does anybody back there know? You don't have it written down either. I want you to take a look at these two so-called gentlemen. Now, we need to hear the good listening skills from you.

I don't want you to think that I'm badgering you boys. But on the other hand, on the other hand, you're here to learn something. And if you learn nothing else today, it would be...

It would be nice if you would learn the listening skills. What do you know now about brown-eyed people that you didn't know before you, about blue-eyed people that you didn't know before you came in here? I'm finding I'm gonna have to explain things a bit more explicitly to a blue-eyed person. that I would to a brown-eyed person. How many times did I have to repeat the listening skills for Roger?

Brother Roger's having a rough time today, isn't he? It was about six or seven different times. You think that's amusing, Roger? Apparently, somewhat amusing. As part of the lesson, the corrections department employees took a written test.

All right, I need these names and the scores. I have KR11. I'm sorry, I can't hear you.

KR, just initials, 11. KR, just an initial, no last name? No names. How many? 11. And Churden or Charles, I'm not sure.

Thank you, sir. Tell me the name again. Uh, Churden.

You can't read the name? No, I can't. I can't make it up.

What's your name? My name is Chambers. First name?

Janine. And what was her score? Six.

Next. E. Riley with a five. E.

E. Riley. Will E. Riley please stand? Fine. You know, it's. What you do to the image of blues with your behavior is unfortunate.

What you three people do to the image of women with your behavior really makes me angry. The fact that you do this kind of thing and this kind of sloppy work reflects badly on women. I resent that doubly.

Yes? Ma'am, I'd really appreciate it if you'd call us by name when you... When you say you three people, we don't know who you're speaking to.

It could be anyone here. My dear, if you wanted me to call you by name, you'd have put your name on your paper. It's on my... It was to be on your paper.

You didn't see my papers, ma'am. I didn't get your name either because... Because it wasn't on your paper.

That's right. All right. Now, how can one call you by your name if you don't care enough about your name to put it on your paper?

Don't expect me to worry about it. You don't know how to read? Don't expect me to worry about it if you don't put it on your paper. Don't sit here and say, my name is important to me, after you have just deliberately not put it on your paper.

You're being totally unrealistic. I don't remember saying my name was important to me. I remember saying, I'd like to know who you're speaking to you when you say, you three.

Then what should you do? Ask you to use my name, which I did. And where should your name have been?

Right where it is. On your paper? And on my birth certificate. Is it on your paper?

No, ma'am. Where'd you get a birth certificate? Same place you got it. Out of a slot machine, same machine. you did, lady.

I think you're probably right about your own. At least I know who my parents are, ma'am. Is she being rude?

Yes. Is she being inconsiderate? Very. Is she being uncooperative?

Very. Is she being insulted? Yes.

Are all those the things that we've accused blue-eyed people of being? Yes. Is she proving that we're right? Yes.

Does anyone have any comments to make at this point? Do you feel that there are important blue-eyed people? There are exceptions to every rule.

And what are those exceptions? There are a few important blue-eyed people. Very few. Do you think that you're one of them?

No. Then why are you up there then? I'm blue-eyed.

The difference between you and me is I have a brown-eyed husband and brown-eyed offspring and I've learned how to behave in a brown-eyed society. When you can act brown enough, then you too can be where I am. I wouldn't want to be where you are.

Are you certain? Absolutely positive. You like where you are? I love where I am.

You like it so much that you don't even identify yourself on your papers? I don't need to, lady. Her using the term lady, where I'm concerned, what do you think she's trying to do?

Is it ignorance or is it deliberately insulting? I would say it was deliberately insulting. If it's ignorance, she needs to be taught that to many of us, the word lady is a pejorative. I don't appreciate it.

It is, it's a put down and it's used to keep women in their place. I'm sorry. I will call you by a correct name after this. I won't be kind. That was kindness on your part?

Yes. Then you are in true... I think calling someone a lady is a kindness.

Then your problem is ignorance. You can call me lady anytime you like. I wouldn't do that to you. No, I know you wouldn't. I really wouldn't.

I think that... and that's part of the problem is a total lack of awareness at what sexism amounts to and how much you contribute to the sexism that keeps you where you are. I like where I am, lady. I like where I am. I did it again, didn't I?

Yes. I'm getting kind of fed up with this whole bunch of garbage. Why? Brown-eyed peoples are no different than we are. I hate to tell them that.

They have these false delusions and such. Are they being disruptive? No, you trained them very well.

That's what they did with the stormtroopers in Germany also. You guys do a real good job sitting up there. You think that what's happening here today feels like it would have felt in Nazi Germany? Yes.

Where do you think you are in that then? Where do I think I am? Who are you if you're in Nazi Germany? Who are you?

Uh, the Jews. After a break for lunch, Jane Elliott helped the corrections department employees analyze what had happened. Did you learn anything this morning? I think I learned from the experience of feeling like I was in a glass cage and I was powerless. There was a sense of hopelessness.

I was angry, I wanted to speak up, and yet at times I knew if I spoke up, I'd be back in a powerless situation. I'd be attacked. A sense of hopelessness.

Depression. Had you experienced that before? I realized this morning that there were very few times in my life that I've ever been discriminated against, very few.

And you were this uncomfortable in an hour and a half? I was amazed at how uncomfortable I was in the first 15 minutes. Can you empathize at all then with blacks, minority group members in this country?

I'm hoping better than before. If we tried to argue with you, you would use just the mere argument as reason for us being. lesser than the brown-eyed folks.

You know, you couldn't win. Don't we do that every day? I think some do, yeah.

But I would hope that I'd never get so unreasonable. I'd, you know, the statements you were making were groundless and such, and yet we couldn't argue with them because if we argued, then we were argumentative and, you know, not listening and getting out of our place and all that stuff. And that was frustrating to me. And then frustrating to me was the other.

little green tags who are sitting on their hands. My group here was, I didn't think, boisterous enough in our opposition to the whole thing. Why didn't you people support one another?

Why didn't the blue-eyed people, the blue-eyed people on this side just sat there. And let's face it, you covered your asses, right? Why did you just sit there?

Well, I think that's symptomatic of the problem as a whole. We see that, you know, in society in general. We see a few people who are making a lot of noise, and the rest of the people sitting back waiting to see what they're going to do. Okay, as long as I was picking on him, I was leaving you alone, right?

Right. I'd say a lot of people, except that they let a few people do their fighting for them, and they stand back, and if this person's going to win, then they'll get on this side. If that person's not going to win, they'll stay back over here, you know.

That's just how it works. If you were in a real situation where you had to do something about racism, Would you stand up and be counted? What I would do, I don't know. It would depend on the exigencies. But you would do something.

I would have to do something. I couldn't go home tonight and face my kids if I didn't. How did you brown-eyed people feel while this was going on?

Embarrassed. Sense of relief that I wasn't a blue-eyed person. Sense of relief that you had the right color eyes?

Absolutely. I really understood, at least I felt that I understood, what it was like to be in the minority. Why were you angry? First of all, because it was unreasonable.

Secondly, because I felt discriminated against. Thirdly, I think that all of us, everyone in this room, has dealt with discrimination on both sides. You don't have to be black or Jewish or Mexican or anything else to have felt discrimination in your life.

And as you become an adult, you learn to deal with those feelings within yourself. You learn to handle those, and when you feel yourself... in a situation that you can't get out of, which we couldn't. We were a captive audience.

And it was not a normal situation, because normally you aren't badgered. What if you had to spend the rest of your life this way? I don't know how to answer that. You don't wake up every morning knowing that you're different. You wake up as a white woman who is going to her job at 8 o'clock or whatever, where a black person is going to wake up knowing from the minute they get up out of the bed and look in the mirror, they're black.

And they have to deal with the problems they've had to deal with ever since they were young and realize that I am different and I have to deal with life differently. Things are different for me. And I don't think you can really say that you have felt, maybe you have felt some sort of discrimination.

but you haven't felt what it is like for a black woman to go through the daily experiences of arguing and saying, listen to me, my point of view is good, you know, what I have to offer here is good. And no one wants to listen because white is right. That's the way things are.

I think the necessity for this exercise is a crime. No, I don't want to see it used more widely. I want to see the necessity for it wiped out.

And I think if educators were determined that we could be very instrumental in wiping out the necessity for this exercise. But I want to see something used. I'd like to see this exercise used with all teachers, all administrators, but certainly not with all students unless it's done by people who are doing it for the right reasons and in the right way. I think you could damage a child with this exercise very, very easily. And I would never suggest that everybody should use it.

I think you could have training classes for teachers, bring them in, put them through the thing, explain what happened, do the... debriefing and then practice doing this until teachers until a group of teachers were able to do it on their own and i that teachers are not disabled learners they could learn to do this obviously if i can do it most anyone can do it it doesn't take a super teacher to do this exercise what began in a third grade classroom has spread from students to teachers to corrections officers at the center is still a single teacher determined to inoculate her students, both young and old, against the virus of bigotry. After you do this exercise, when the debriefing starts, when the pain is over and you're all back together and you're all one again, you find out how society could be if we really believed all this stuff that we preached.

If we really acted that way, you could feel... as good about one another as those kids feel about one another after this exercise is over. You create instant cousins.

I thought maybe that lasted just while they were in my classroom because of my superior influence, but indeed these kids still feel that way about one another. They said yesterday, over and over, the remark was made, we're kind of like a family now. They found out how to hurt one another, and they found out how it feels to be hurt in that way. And they refused to hurt one another that way again.

And they said, we're kind of like a family now, and indeed we were.