Okay, I can add more scripture references to your notes. Here's an updated version:
Debate on Israel's Future and Theology
Participants
- Moderator: Donnie
- Debaters: Steve Greg, David Preston
Introduction
- Topic: What is God's plan for Israel?
- Participants: Steve Greg (Bible teacher, 54 years of experience) and David Preston
- Debate format: Focused on specific subtopics with opening statements, open discussions, and closing remarks.
- Audience engagement with questions at the end.
Subtopic 1: Land Promises - Fulfilled or Unfulfilled?
-
Steve's Position:
- Believes the land promises have been fulfilled.
- References Joshua 21:43-45: "So the Lord gave to Israel all the land of which he had sworn to give their fathers, and they took possession of it and dwelt in it. The Lord gave them rest all around, according to all that he had sworn to their fathers, and not a man of all their enemies stood against them. The Lord delivered all their enemies into their hand; not a word failed of any good thing which the Lord had spoken to the house of Israel; it all came to pass."
- Solomon's reign included all promised territories (1 Kings 4:21).
- Conditions for losing the land based on obedience (Leviticus 18 and Deuteronomy 28).
-
David's Position:
- Believes the promises are unfulfilled and eternal.
- References Genesis 15:18-21: "In that same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, ‘To your descendants I give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the river Euphrates…’" and Genesis 17:8: "I will give to you and your descendants after you the land where you are living as an alien, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God."
- Argues Israel never possessed all the land to the Euphrates or the river of Egypt.
- References from Psalms 37:29, Psalms 105:10, Lamentations 4:22, 2 Ezra 3:15, and Baruch 2:35 to support unfulfilled promises.
Subtopic 2: Is Jesus the Only Seed or Are Descendants Seed Too?
-
Steve's Position:
- Jesus is the singular seed of Abraham (Galatians 3:16: "Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He does not say, ‘And to seeds,’ as of many, but as of one, ‘And to your seed,’ who is Christ.").
- Believers in Christ are Abraham’s seed (Galatians 3:29: "And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.").
- All promises are fulfilled in Christ.
-
David's Position:
- Argues for a dual interpretation, referencing Genesis 21:12: "And God said to Abraham, ‘Do not be distressed because of the boy and because of your slave woman. Whatever Sarah has said to you, heed her voice, for in Isaac your seed shall be called."
- Highlights two events: 430 years and 400 years, linking them to promises.
- Disagrees with the idea of replacing Israel with Christ.
Subtopic 3: Galatians 4:28-31 - Are the Jews the Flesh?
-
Steve's Position:
- Jews according to the flesh are contrasted with children of promise (Romans 9 and Galatians 4).
- Believers are children of promise.
-
David's Position:
- Flesh refers to the law, not Jews.
- Emphasizes freedom from the law in Christ (Galatians 5:1: "Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.").
- Believes the law persecuted, not ethnic Jews.
Subtopic 4: Who is the Israel of God?
-
Steve's Position:
- Israel of God refers to the church, including Jews and Gentiles.
- Galatians 6:16: "As many as walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, even upon the Israel of God." interpreted as peace to those who follow the rule and the Israel of God (same group).
-
David's Position:
- Israel of God refers to ethnic Israel.
- Syntax and grammar in Galatians 6:16 suggest two groups.
- Connects to Romans 11:29-30: "For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. For just as you were once disobedient to God but now have received mercy through their disobedience, so they also have now been disobedient in order that, through the mercy shown to you, they also may receive mercy." about God’s mercy on Israel.
Subtopic 5: What Does All Israel Will Be Saved Mean?
-
Steve's Position:
- Refers to the remnant of Israel, those who believe.
- Olive tree metaphor in Romans 11 includes believing Jews and Gentiles.
-
David's Position:
- Future eschatological event involving all Israel.
- References Isaiah 59 and Jeremiah 31 about restoration and salvation from enemies.
Subtopic 6: Will There Be a Future Temple?
-
Steve's Position:
- No future third temple according to New Testament understanding.
- Jesus is the ultimate temple; believers are the spiritual temple (Ephesians 2).
-
David's Position:
- Believes in a future temple based on Old Testament and apocryphal writings.
- References Ezekiel 40-47 and Tobit 14:4-6 predictions.
Closing Remarks
- David: Emphasizes historical understanding and literal interpretation of scripture.
- Steve: Advocates for a New Testament lens to understand Old Testament prophecies.
Q&A Highlights
- Discussed interpretation of Matthew 19:28, Romans 11, and other pertinent scriptures.
- Explored the concept of Gentiles as scattered Israelites and its implications.
- Delved into the significance of Israel as a location, church, or belief system.
The debate was thorough, covering key theological perspectives on Israel's future and its role in biblical prophecy and promise.