Fr. Ripperger - Catholic Marriage - 2/5 - Conference on Conjugal Chastity

[Music] name of Father Son Holy Ghost amen hail mary full of grace the Lord is with thee blessed art thou amongst women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus mother most chaste you know the Father Son Holy Ghost amen I decided to do a conference on conjugal chastity which is the least desirable topic actually to talk about and from some respects but I think it's one of the most necessary probably most of youth this isn't going to be too much of a difficulty but there are certain things which I think need to be understand because most traditionalists are trying to leave a life in accordance with what the church demands and desires and so as a result very often there are questions about certain limits within the context of the conjugal act and so it's important to go into this taking the cue from the Saints it tends to be the best thing to do is to talked about things very frankly modestly of course being observed but very frankly so for instance some st. Louis de Montfort asks questions in a very frank manner in order to deal with them adequately I find that if it's not look frankly that is a rule it tends to you know you don't really it doesn't become clear to people because you end up trying to couch it behind certain terms of things like that again modesty being observed chastity and also because of the nature of the conference and the things we're going to talk about it's not appropriate to talk about this in mixed company so I thought it best talked I would give the conference then you can talk or talk to with it with your wives and to communicate anything you think necessary with your wives also since it is the man's responsibility ultimately to tend to the spiritual welfare the family it's his obligation even more than the wives to make sure that modesty and chastity and things of this thing or proverbs are within the home okay but of course I'm going to make the conference available I haven't decided how how available you chastity is the virtue and the confusable appetite by which one moderates the desires for venereal pleasure now what that means is is we have a lower we have an intellect and oil of course but then we also have lower appetites which incline we all know this we have emotions or appetites which go contrary to what we actually want or will and so there's one of them which has a desire for for bodily goods both food and also in content and sex basically is what it comes down to and that included appetite has to be moderated by virtues and one of the one that moderates the inclination in that virtue in that in that faculty is chastity which moderate sits inclination toward six so that the inclination is always according to do circumstances and in a new way the chastity is different from continents in that countenance is in the will but countenance is is even if our appetites are in a tumult or there's something going on countenance is the virtue by which the will keeps steadfast and doing the right thing despite the tumult of the appetites chastity on the other hand and so as a result a continent man can have problems with the appetites being inclined in ways that are inappropriate but the chaste man is one who or woman for that matter is one in which the confusable appetite only inclines towards these things in the mud in the right way right time and in the right circumstances chastity the Saints are of three kinds the first is that which pertains to those under religious thousand promises and in that particular case they have to have absolute chastity that's what they're required to live then there are those who are single and they also have to have chassis but they can look forward to legitimate marriage in which conjugal relations can be had both before marriage of course conjugal chastity has to be perfect cannot engage in any type of exterior actions or thoughts which are contrary to purity then there are those who are married now once you're married your wife which is the Saints a becomes do matter that is you can think about your wife sexually of course it has to be done moderated ly so that the person still can function elsewhere but because she is do matter because they now have bodily rights he can think of her in that fashion and so what's legitimate for a married man with respect to his wife and only his wife is not legitimate for anyone else marital chastity therefore can be broken into three parts the first is fidelity and what this is is this is absolute exclusive enjoyment of marital Goods the conjugal Act and things like that within the confines of marriage in other words it can only be enjoyed by spouses who are legitimately married with each other alone and of course marriage is defined as contracting between a man and a woman so we just so we all have that clear if she's already alright so the second type of there second part of marital chastity is what we call the mode of conjugal relations and what this means is is that there are certain kinds of conjugal there's certain ways of engaging in the conjugal act which are proper and ones which are not which we'll see here a little bit and then there's what we call mutual acts that's the technical term in moral theology for foreplay so a mutual act is a type of foreplay which we'll talk a little bit more as we go on the third part is modesty the first part of marital chastity is modesty in relationship to each other modesty means that looked a slightly different thing because they can talk about sort of things relating to these they still have to maintain proper modesty within the home for the sake of the children because children should not be seeing these things in that type of thing okay as to mutual apps or for planes sometimes this car I'll probably stick more the technical terms because they have a they're a little clearer I think mutual acts among the unmarried are always mortally sinful so foreplay of any kind among people who are unmarried is mortally sinful everywhere in all cases among the married some kinds of foreplay are permissible and some are not and will so that's what we're going to talk about here but before we go into that I want to talk about a specific term because this there's a specific set of principles that you have to judge the action by to see whether it's morally permissible or not the first is the term called pollution and this is the term which more or less assigned the meaning of the of the voluntary effusion of semen outside of coition so in other words basically it's a it's the fusion of semen outside of the actual conjugal act itself so very often the morals will use this in the context of masturbation so you know or things of this sort or what's called onanism which is during the conjugal acts the man retracts and there's diffusion of semen pollution means any effusion semen through masturbation or any other way for those who are married okay so now so there's that the term pollution and the reason it's called pollution is because normally the effusion of semen is only supposed to occur within the actual context of marital Union in that way actually in the context of American full marital act the incidentally pollution also applies to women in the sense that women can also reach a certain stage in the conjugal after in other ways which take on certain similarities to the male effusion and so as a result or pollution and so as a result the same actually applies to women as does to men for those who are married well first for those who are unmarried passionate kissing is immoral because it's an approximate occasion of sin that doesn't mean that you can't gauge in legitimate acts of expression with respect to each other when you're engaged through kissing and things like that but the kitchen could not be passionate in the sense of it being some of it of a so an antecedent to things that are a bit more involved acts ok so then there are different kinds of acts when we're talking about a relationship there's a mutual asks which we call foreplay which we'll talk about a minute but then there are acts which are connected to coercion in some way or can be so for instance sexually stimulating acts these are the types are sexually similar which are not necessarily foreplay at for example kissing embracing certain kinds of embracing certain kinds of touching certain looks I mean people who are married can look at each other and each know what that particular look means heading and things of this sort these are always morally lawful in connection to coercion that is if you're in the act of coition and you're engaging with these they're always morally lawful that is insofar as they lead to as preparatory of coition or the completion thereof these are morally listed because they ate the nature and the performance of coition now the Saints always say that if I if someone has a right to the perfect they have a right to what's imperfect and what they mean by that is if somebody has a right to the marital act they also have a right to those things which leave up to the marital act provided that the natural law is followed one distinction however must be made and that is when these acts are done if there are acts that are engaged for instance and petting is normally considered a is if considered a mutual act it's considered part of foreplay but provided that any of these in these types of actions so just kissing embracing and things of this sort if there is danger of pollution then they have to you have to end and it's not in the context the conjugal act then it then they have to be avoided that's what the moralist say even for married people because you can't you basically when it comes down to is because God condemned onanism in the Old Testament you can't engage in anything that is basically and it's on the level of onanism and so you have to be very careful about observing that but if they're used in order to make the coition possible for instance of someone and suffer from frigidity or some things like that they may be used if it makes it possible or if it actually helps in the performance of the action that it can actually consider morally good the mutual acts or foreplay are sexually stimulating apps which one spouse does to another and these are broken into three kinds you probably never thought that that more or less have done this much analysis of all this all right the first are those in which there is no danger of pollution in which there is no intention to in order to actually have climax outside the context of conjugal act outside of coition that is insofar as the other sorry um these these may be done and they are lawful for a just cause that is you can engage in certain kinds of padding and things like that provided that there is no danger of pollution and it can be done for example in some fiction even though there may be times that acts done intentionally that pollution happens as long as it's not intended as long as the nature of the actor engaging in it isn't going to cause that so as I mentioned sometimes masturbation is called pollution most moralist say that masturbation by masturbation is self stimulation that done in the context of even the of foreplay self stimulation is considered by every more or less as a or that by every moreless I mean every saintly moralist and every good moralist we would normally associate now I'm sorry a sufficient reason for engaging in these types of acts the various moralist list for instance an increase in mutual love satisfaction the spouse and things of this sort some of the more lists you can talk about doing it in order to keep one spouse from running off and being unfaithful the argument being that some spouses have a right as I mentioned the perfect they also have a right to these and perfect exit responses have a right to engage in foreplay in content in connection to this st. Alphonsus Liguori observes that those who touch themselves in mutual accident masturbation sin gravely okay the second kind of actor those in which there is a danger of pollution but there's no intention to do so some role so that even if there's a danger of pollution but there is also a justifying reason for this action such as adverting suspicion on the side of the spouse that maybe you're unfaithful or restraining some another spouse your spouse from adultery or in obedience to a legitimate request then it may be morally justifiable obviously what this means is is that if there is danger given the tiber nature of the act then you can engage and it provided that if if the danger becomes imminent it has to be seized these more these actions are considered morally licit for a grave cause okay third kind those in which there is danger of pollution and there's intention to do so and all the good more or let's say that this is morally centerfolds so in to engage in foreplay knowing that climax is going to occur outside of coition the good MA let's say this is immoral it should be noted a few things st. Thomas Aquinas asks of what ask a question and actually it's in agustín or SATA Alphonsus also deals with this regarding is it required that you always engage that that basically that it's always in order to be morally less that one always engages or one only engages in what they call vaginal sex is that the only thing that's required that that you have to engage in it in that way and the question comes in st. Alphonsus Liguori he actually I'll give you the exact quote this is how he asked the question is it always a mortal sin for a male to put his penis in the mouth of his wife that's exactly how a saint asks the question because he has to deal with this if it in order for the sake of clarity st. Thomas sets the stage for the answer for st. Alphonsus and st. Alphonsus bases his answer on this st. Thomas says that he says that a woman is designed in a specific way so that he uses the term Voss VA s in Latin which we get the word vase from but basically a boss or the this fuss is a place is as a place where something is meant to be put in other words you put something in a vase you know like like flowers and things of that sort what st. Thomas says is is that given the nature of the natural law and the structure of the generative faculties it is clear he says that the male organ is designed by nature to be placed in the vaginal canal of a wall of his wife and not in her mouth or anally so for st. Thomas it's clear that anal sacs and or and oral sex in which of that nature is amoral st. Alphonsus says that he considers that he comes back and he clarifies a few things in the context of it and he says that he considers that people to engage in undertake that that's called undo coalition in the sensor or an undo mode of coition and say st. Alphonsus says it's a kind of species of lust and doesn't have its place in the proper marital chastity he's both for st. Thomas and st. Alphonsus to engage in to end that kind of oral sex or in that or in anal sex is considered a vise contrary to nature it's analogous to sodomy okay so then this the Saints than some other theologians I should say asked the question well what about oral sex with respect to women some Wallis vow it when when men perform oral sex on women how are the principles have to still be applied there has to be no danger of pollution and the issue of the vows has to be rightly observed that means there's just certain things that don't belong in the vaginal canal of a woman so that means no sex toys in that respect it also means that oral sex is permitted on the women as long as it's purely external and there's no possibility of pollution st. Thomas says that - that the male reproductive organ by its very nature is not designed to be put in other things other than the female boss so you don't go around putting it in strange places conversely oh sorry from this we can say that oral sex is most probably a mortal sin even for married couples that is we're talking about oral sex of a little legitimate kind regardless of who's performing it that is a pollution is going to occur or if it's done in an undo mode the use of pornography within the context of marriage is also forbidden since the viewing of pornography causes one sense is to fall in undo matter what does that mean well the Saints used to say st. Thomas particularly said that he used to call what they call the matter or the object of the moral Act and the matter is the the thing upon which your action and fall so for instance in the act of throwing a baseball the baseball is the matter what you throw now throwing is the action but it has to fall on some type of thing so as I always say in my classes and virtues there is a distinction between you know there's a big distinction in matter so there's a big distinction between throwing a [ __ ] in [ __ ] bowling and throwing a baseball there's a big difference well in like manner when you're married and you exchange bodily rights your wife's body becomes legitimate matter for your for sexual activity no other what no other woman does and so as a result you can't engage in conjugal relations with some other woman once you're married but on the same on the same on the same level the church that Christ taught that you know he who desires to commit adultery or he do he who looks on a woman lustfully has committed adultery in her heart and he has already forbidden even intellectually conceiving or of conceiving of undue matter what this means is that in the case of pornography are the senses fall the matter go and fall on matter on someone else's like that is not due to them this is why it's not morally permissible for married couples to view pornography and then try out the various things that they see there it's not permitted modesty therefore must be observed even among those who are married so what is chastity mean for a married couple well chastity means that you can engage in the conjugal act but it has to be in a due mode you can engage in things like passionate kissing and things like that provided there's no danger of pollution you can gauge in those kinds of foreplay which observe the natural law structure of the faculties as I mentioned observing the proper boss with relation with respect to the woman and you cannot you know you can engage in discussions about these things and things like that provided it's always with respect to your wife but with respect to that but this means therefore the chastity in a someone who's married make sure that the inclinations for the desire for conjugal union are done in the due mode that is you want to do it in the right way and you do it according to right circumstances and right time so you can't you know do it out in public or you know things like that but connected to this also means that there is a certain modesty why because modesty protects the external our external expressions regarding these matters so between a married couple there has to be modesty that they only express their desires or inclinations in matters that are listed and that's only between the two of them to go outside that context is immodest or to suggest things or to talk about those things in an immoral way that is to you know to try and get your wife to do things very more it's contrary to modesty and it's contrary to chastity it also is necessary to train children because parents have to be modest there is a time and a place for these things and so chassis for a married man and a married woman means they only engage in those things at the time according to certain time and they have to protect these things the church has been very clear particularly in the documents before Vatican 2 they were very clear that that conjugal union in the pleasure that arises from venereal Union is so vehement that it requires a very strong control and a certain mechanism and it even requires an institution marriage to keep the thin property order as a result people who are married have to lead a chaste life and they also must lead a modest life not only with respect to them to each other then the sense of modesty of making sure they don't ever cross the lines but we know but it but also modesty can mean that under do certain stances you can talk about these things etc but in relationship to the children this means that it has to be protected so that the children aren't introduced to these things too early I know that many people say oh I don't want my kid to learn it from some other kid on the playground so when he was five i sat him down and told him the birds to be like they're not even ready for it why are you taking they're in their innocence away from them in such an early age that's just ridiculous it's better you know cuz now they've got to be thinking and dealing with this why don't you just wait until they're of the proper age but it means though that modesty and chastity have to be made I'm done within the context of marriage this is the one conference I'm allowed questions only so that make sure the case people have any questions just a warning if you're wondering it probably so is everyone else in the room so don't worry about asking the question course in the other hand you mean I want to ask questions get out of the subject so we can go on to something else yeah is needing coverage right it can be as long as the hand is not the proper organ for the boss so it cannot be placed in the boss but it can be used for stimulating provided its order towards conjugal union or provided there's no danger of pollution that's what the theologians say same thing is you said that stage evolution is done for instance suppose suppose a wife is concerned that her husband if she basically if she doesn't please him sexually that she's afraid that he'll go seeking an elsewhere so obviously if it becomes eminent she has to stop but there are times when it occurs when there was no indication that it was imminent so inaptitude that's the kind of situation we're talking about so that would be a just cause although there's not too many of those as a rule yeah nobody else must ask any questions yeah it's a delicate topic but it's one of those things that needs to be talked about because you can displease God and oh I should say one other thing that I forgot to say because foreplay these things are listed morally they're actually good morally provided they're done according to do mode and introduce circumstances and all the principles being observed and so is the conjugal act is a good thing God created it intended it to be a good thing which means that you can actually use the conjugal act gain grace how the church has always taught that any acts done any morally good acts done in the state of grace with a charitable intention or with the supernatural intention gains grace so I know couples who actually pray before they get in comes back to a to moderate them in the process of it but also be - to gain the grace to have a supernatural intention of beforehand so they've actually gained grace of it it's Jansenist to think of it's evil it's only moral evil outside the context of the foundations or done in an undue mode yeah as far as children go I mean first I was just visiting my daughter and a little fine girl of grandeur yells up to origin of the bath be sure and clean your vagina no I said why these were well that's the word they teacher in school yeah that's precisely the problem well what you have to do is you have to know just schools teaching and you have to keep you have to keep you have to keep your kids away from that type of thing this basically comes down to a lot of case that means turn the TV off because vast majority of the stuff that's on TV is grossly immodest and contrary to chastity but it also means that you have to be able you have to be knowledgeable about the morality of these things and also in a certain sense national law God designed us this way he'd intended this way this is what he wanted so when the children asked the questions again in a frank way but modestly you can explain it to them so that they recognize what's morally right what's morally wrong and I think you know to try and be clear-headed about it it may be the case that given the circumstances today you might have to talk about the birds and bees a little earlier with kids then you might have had say you know 50 years ago but it's best of course if it comes from parents because the parents care the proper authority because they're the moral teachers of the child and it should not come from somebody at school and there are certain things of course this also means there are certain things that are done in sex education is a that just grossly violate modesty for it you know you hear these stories about the various things they talk to students about what they should do with themselves and things like that well these things are just completely over the line and in a sex-crazed world there's going to be more and more coercion on the side of those who are disorder to want to control these things because they don't want to be denied them in any way or to have any reminder that there's something wrong with them they want to get other people encouraged in their sin so that they feel comfortable about it so you know it's one of those things that that's one of the reasons why I'm a big supporter of homeschooling I know some people aren't but I'm a big supporter of it because it's within the context of homeschooling that a person can more control what their children I'm going to see here particularly on the playgrounds too because it's getting really bad there too yeah rather then whirly there difference what's more the or married help them during their procreation years as older than your old right that's right there's no difference so even when you get older this principle still isn't still apply moderation is less of a problem I'm sorry lot of reasons when you're older that's right it is that's because you know when you're younger the hormones are all over the place but yeah we had counsel from a priest too many years ago about right the inversion right I didn't fully understand it explained very well instructors probably something do you have any comments on that as a recommendation yeah as a practice or as a virtue yeah the Saints very often talk about and recommend that from time to time couples actually abstain from the conjugal act even in those times they might desire to for the sake of building chastity that's for sake of building moderation in relationship to it so the abstinence technically speaking there is no virtue of abstinence regarding sex there's only abstinence is actually the virtual relationship of food but they use it a transpose the term in raves the context of conjugal relations which is a legitimate use of the term I'm just saying it's a technical point granted but what so in other words it's actually a virtue because there's two there's two aspects one if you build moderation the second thing is is anytime we offer up or forego any listed good for the spiritual well-being of another or for ourselves we can gain grace from it so as a result that's a way of practicing self-denial and detachment from created goods and so in that respect it actually built up virtue and detachment and so very often the Saints will recommend it sometimes you know people will say oh yeah we've been abstinent for 40 years that's because it can't stay at each other well it's not a virtue I mean the virtue is that you actually like the person want to be with them but you decide to forego it for the sake of giving up lists of good it's the same thing that's like giving up food you know you might give up the state for a day or two or something like that if you take that often but if you might give up you know a specific B for food you know or something like that you forego it for a little while in order to brain in the appetites and to bring them more under control yeah the same oh okay oh yeah like brother and sister yep it is actually a more excellent state - it has to be by mutual agreement of course because remember when you contract when you go when you get into marriage you can track barley right so one spouse has rights over the body of another so it's only by mutual agreement that they can forego these things now because one has to say yes I'll forego my right of access to your body and likewise mean with you or whatever cases when it comes to being permanent they both have to they have to mutually agree to it and in what that is is is what it is it's a striving for perfect abstinence basically in the sense of they try and for the spiritual good of each other to forego a natural good in order to pursue the self-denial and the grace is to come with being perfectly abstinent that is a it's a perfection but two things have to be observed one not all couples should do it obviously the second thing is is that there are certain circumstances in which it would be forbidden to certain couples for instance if you have if you have a wife who she might you know she's a bit flighty she might say oh yeah that's a great idea let's do it and then later you know five years later because of the lack of intimacy she runs off and ends up committing adultery in a certain assumed circumstances like that it has to be forbidden those types of things to take those vows private valves can only be done under the under a spiritual director illicitly can only be done in our spiritual director or a pastor and even then he has to do some type of investigation into it before he should allow them to be done or he should be very knowledgeable about it and as a general rule it should be done not I mean it doesn't have to be I mean you can legitimately you can legitimately state that yes we're engaging but we're going to get married but we both have also agreed that once were married Breanna go forgo the rights that you do this from the it's called the Josephine marriage that's legitimate but it may not be prudent under certain circumstances but so there are certain circumstances which you need to simply cannot be allowed and some that it can and normally it should not be done until after childbearing age normally it's more prudent to do it after childbearing age because of the natural inclinations it's much more difficult and in certain cases you know once you're married and it's morally licit the restrictions and the pretty inhibitions drop naturally they should and so as a result for people to say you know we could have access to this thing but we're going to decide to form a billet when they're you know and when they're younger I think it might be a bit imprudent if you have people who are particularly virtuous and have some type of special grace and you can see it may be but normally these types of things aren't done until they're past childbearing age or you know older and again it has to be by mutual consent the husband shouldn't do it just so that he can play Kate his wife and she'll be happy you know okay we will never do it again just you know okay quit nagging me it can't be that type of thing it has to be that they really love each other there from going this with each other spiritual benefits does that make sense yeah well that brings up the question of family planning I've heard some people argue against it on the basis of that is really just performing birth control yep and and also the see it would seem to me having this brother sister marriage when you can have children in a whole point is to have children so in turn after long and it's self prevention no having a right is different from the exercise of the right when you get married it is to exchange bodily rights it's basically dated to take on a right that doesn't mean you have to exercise it and the church has always said that virginity or abstinence is a higher virtue than in conjugal chastity these look they've always said that because why it more approximates what we're going to be like in heaven and it also rains in the appetites better and things of that sort but with respect to NFP actually this is I have two articles I want to write with respect to NFP one is I probably get rounded one of them but what I'm going to do because I've just alarmed NFP cannot be used paisa tel says that a couple can only forego having children if there is a proportionate and grave reason it has to be a there has to be a serious reason for it and so nobody can use NFP if there's not a grave reason now I know people say oh you know they I'm going to use the NFP because I want to space my children up sorry it's not a sufficient reason or we want to get about so we can't have any more children not a good reason it's not a sufficient reason health of the mother like grave problem with health of the mother or something like that might be is a sufficient reason Pius the 12th gives the example of or he doesn't give the example of the people at the time we're giving the example of past health came out with the observations like for instance in China if you know that they're going to forcibly rape the woman if she becomes pregnant then that would be a sufficient reason to use NFP perpetually for the entire duration of the marriage if necessary but there has to be a sufficient reason one thing I am very alarmed at is that there's two aspects to NFP there's the philosophical dimension of why it's can concur with the natural law and why it's a good thing provided it's used in under two circumstances and then there is the physiological aspects of how you actually employ the method I think it is absolute insanity that they are giving people the anatomical details of how to engage in NFP during pre-cana retreats it's absolutely bananas everybody in the retreat is already struggling with chastity and then they drag out this anatomical detail of the female anatomy in relationship to how to engage NFP it's just bananas it makes I mean it is it is de facto an occasion of sin for people for the average couple so I think it's just something that has to be my theory is that when people are prepared for marriage they should be taught about velocity of using NFP under the due circumstances that is for Just Cause and that if they find themselves in that case when they're married then they go as a couple to a doctor who will teach them how to do it you don't do it in front with there's you know 30 couples in a room that's just bananas and then that's one of the articles I think it has to be written because that practice just has to be put an end to any other questions so does that answer the question okay yeah and one peripheral question sure right when Wenham a married man looks a physically beautiful woman instead of wedding but physically beautiful he looks and he observes without without getting into being scrupulous about whether this is observing or whether this is lust right you know this has this been it's been blurred so much in the last 20 years oh yeah yeah the you know sometimes you don't know when the look is short enough or long enough and you don't want you you don't want to accuse yourself of being looking too long to appreciate the beauty that you see you know and yeah it's a priest that's much easier to just don't bother looking it does it just makes your life much easier Fett who is in Padre Pio said that towards the end of his life he never even knew any he never knew by face any of the females in his congregation but okay let me make let me make two distinctions or a distinction I should say Beauty st. Thomas defines as that which is pleasing to a cognitive faculty so then when a person looks at something beautiful they're pleased with it and that's what happens when guys look at a beautiful woman they're either become pleased with it that now it's in the current of fact there is an intellectual activity you're looking at them and you can see that it's that they're beautiful I need to take a certain intellectual pleasure in that is distinct from taking lust in it where you have a venereal pleasure from it you get aroused or something like that and of course today people can't make that distinction you know the first time they see a beautiful any time they see a beautiful woman the first thing they do is think of getting her into bed which is just you know which you know it's kind of interesting I I've written these books on psychology and I actually define fixation or one of mental illness of a fixation as when you always associate one thing with another in a wrong way and that's exactly what's happening people becoming completely fixated as our culture becomes more licensed and in these areas are becoming more fixated because they can't think every time this thing comes into their mind they can't think of it any other way well that's just a mental you know you just there's just something flawed in upstairs okay okay having made that distinction for a married man to appreciate the beauty of another woman is not sinful provided of course modesty is being observed in providing he's not taking any venereal pleasure in it but it's a spiritual imperfection and the reason being is is that he his affections not not necessarily in the sense of affection in the sense of venereal but here we're talking about just intellectual affections he should only be reserving for his wife for the sake of the exclusivity also if if guys like going around again it's not necessarily sinful provided you know it's you know if you're observing you can appreciate their beauty on an intellectual level fine but it can also be the occasional sense you have to be careful of that aspect of it but it's also spiritual infant perfection because people don't necessarily practice do detachment from it guys become attached to looking at the beauty of other women and they have to begin to break that attachment once they become married and that's why it's a spiritual imperfection and like all imperfections it can lead you into sin and that's why you have to be careful with it even if a guy's way versus I know guys are various virtuous negative then they can look at women you know and you know only intellectually appreciate their beauty the problem is though is that it's not exercising do detachment any other questions does that answer the question you think okay okay that's it if you're me I'll give your blessing Benedict's our day on the boat auntie's par preset filly it's bit of sunshine super Abaza tomorrow same bear on it [Music] [Music]

[Music] name of Father Son Holy Ghost amen hail mary full of grace the Lord is with thee blessed art thou amongst women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus mother most chaste you know the Father Son Holy Ghost amen I decided to do a conference on conjugal chastity which is the least desirable topic actually to talk about and from some respects but I think it&#39;s one of the most necessary probably most of youth this isn&#39;t going to be too much of a difficulty but there are certain things which I think need to be understand because most traditionalists are trying to leave a life in accordance with what the church demands and desires and so as a result very often there are questions about certain limits within the context of the conjugal act and so it&#39;s important to go into this taking the cue from the Saints it tends to be the best thing to do is to talked about things very frankly modestly of course being observed but very frankly so for instance some st. Louis de Montfort asks questions in a very frank manner in order to deal with them adequately I find that if it&#39;s not look frankly that is a rule it tends to you know you don&#39;t really it doesn&#39;t become clear to people because you end up trying to couch it behind certain terms of things like that again modesty being observed chastity and also because of the nature of the conference and the things we&#39;re going to talk about it&#39;s not appropriate to talk about this in mixed company so I thought it best talked I would give the conference then you can talk or talk to with it with your wives and to communicate anything you think necessary with your wives also since it is the man&#39;s responsibility ultimately to tend to the spiritual welfare the family it&#39;s his obligation even more than the wives to make sure that modesty and chastity and things of this thing or proverbs are within the home okay but of course I&#39;m going to make the conference available I haven&#39;t decided how how available you chastity is the virtue and the confusable appetite by which one moderates the desires for venereal pleasure now what that means is is we have a lower we have an intellect and oil of course but then we also have lower appetites which incline we all know this we have emotions or appetites which go contrary to what we actually want or will and so there&#39;s one of them which has a desire for for bodily goods both food and also in content and sex basically is what it comes down to and that included appetite has to be moderated by virtues and one of the one that moderates the inclination in that virtue in that in that faculty is chastity which moderate sits inclination toward six so that the inclination is always according to do circumstances and in a new way the chastity is different from continents in that countenance is in the will but countenance is is even if our appetites are in a tumult or there&#39;s something going on countenance is the virtue by which the will keeps steadfast and doing the right thing despite the tumult of the appetites chastity on the other hand and so as a result a continent man can have problems with the appetites being inclined in ways that are inappropriate but the chaste man is one who or woman for that matter is one in which the confusable appetite only inclines towards these things in the mud in the right way right time and in the right circumstances chastity the Saints are of three kinds the first is that which pertains to those under religious thousand promises and in that particular case they have to have absolute chastity that&#39;s what they&#39;re required to live then there are those who are single and they also have to have chassis but they can look forward to legitimate marriage in which conjugal relations can be had both before marriage of course conjugal chastity has to be perfect cannot engage in any type of exterior actions or thoughts which are contrary to purity then there are those who are married now once you&#39;re married your wife which is the Saints a becomes do matter that is you can think about your wife sexually of course it has to be done moderated ly so that the person still can function elsewhere but because she is do matter because they now have bodily rights he can think of her in that fashion and so what&#39;s legitimate for a married man with respect to his wife and only his wife is not legitimate for anyone else marital chastity therefore can be broken into three parts the first is fidelity and what this is is this is absolute exclusive enjoyment of marital Goods the conjugal Act and things like that within the confines of marriage in other words it can only be enjoyed by spouses who are legitimately married with each other alone and of course marriage is defined as contracting between a man and a woman so we just so we all have that clear if she&#39;s already alright so the second type of there second part of marital chastity is what we call the mode of conjugal relations and what this means is is that there are certain kinds of conjugal there&#39;s certain ways of engaging in the conjugal act which are proper and ones which are not which we&#39;ll see here a little bit and then there&#39;s what we call mutual acts that&#39;s the technical term in moral theology for foreplay so a mutual act is a type of foreplay which we&#39;ll talk a little bit more as we go on the third part is modesty the first part of marital chastity is modesty in relationship to each other modesty means that looked a slightly different thing because they can talk about sort of things relating to these they still have to maintain proper modesty within the home for the sake of the children because children should not be seeing these things in that type of thing okay as to mutual apps or for planes sometimes this car I&#39;ll probably stick more the technical terms because they have a they&#39;re a little clearer I think mutual acts among the unmarried are always mortally sinful so foreplay of any kind among people who are unmarried is mortally sinful everywhere in all cases among the married some kinds of foreplay are permissible and some are not and will so that&#39;s what we&#39;re going to talk about here but before we go into that I want to talk about a specific term because this there&#39;s a specific set of principles that you have to judge the action by to see whether it&#39;s morally permissible or not the first is the term called pollution and this is the term which more or less assigned the meaning of the of the voluntary effusion of semen outside of coition so in other words basically it&#39;s a it&#39;s the fusion of semen outside of the actual conjugal act itself so very often the morals will use this in the context of masturbation so you know or things of this sort or what&#39;s called onanism which is during the conjugal acts the man retracts and there&#39;s diffusion of semen pollution means any effusion semen through masturbation or any other way for those who are married okay so now so there&#39;s that the term pollution and the reason it&#39;s called pollution is because normally the effusion of semen is only supposed to occur within the actual context of marital Union in that way actually in the context of American full marital act the incidentally pollution also applies to women in the sense that women can also reach a certain stage in the conjugal after in other ways which take on certain similarities to the male effusion and so as a result or pollution and so as a result the same actually applies to women as does to men for those who are married well first for those who are unmarried passionate kissing is immoral because it&#39;s an approximate occasion of sin that doesn&#39;t mean that you can&#39;t gauge in legitimate acts of expression with respect to each other when you&#39;re engaged through kissing and things like that but the kitchen could not be passionate in the sense of it being some of it of a so an antecedent to things that are a bit more involved acts ok so then there are different kinds of acts when we&#39;re talking about a relationship there&#39;s a mutual asks which we call foreplay which we&#39;ll talk about a minute but then there are acts which are connected to coercion in some way or can be so for instance sexually stimulating acts these are the types are sexually similar which are not necessarily foreplay at for example kissing embracing certain kinds of embracing certain kinds of touching certain looks I mean people who are married can look at each other and each know what that particular look means heading and things of this sort these are always morally lawful in connection to coercion that is if you&#39;re in the act of coition and you&#39;re engaging with these they&#39;re always morally lawful that is insofar as they lead to as preparatory of coition or the completion thereof these are morally listed because they ate the nature and the performance of coition now the Saints always say that if I if someone has a right to the perfect they have a right to what&#39;s imperfect and what they mean by that is if somebody has a right to the marital act they also have a right to those things which leave up to the marital act provided that the natural law is followed one distinction however must be made and that is when these acts are done if there are acts that are engaged for instance and petting is normally considered a is if considered a mutual act it&#39;s considered part of foreplay but provided that any of these in these types of actions so just kissing embracing and things of this sort if there is danger of pollution then they have to you have to end and it&#39;s not in the context the conjugal act then it then they have to be avoided that&#39;s what the moralist say even for married people because you can&#39;t you basically when it comes down to is because God condemned onanism in the Old Testament you can&#39;t engage in anything that is basically and it&#39;s on the level of onanism and so you have to be very careful about observing that but if they&#39;re used in order to make the coition possible for instance of someone and suffer from frigidity or some things like that they may be used if it makes it possible or if it actually helps in the performance of the action that it can actually consider morally good the mutual acts or foreplay are sexually stimulating apps which one spouse does to another and these are broken into three kinds you probably never thought that that more or less have done this much analysis of all this all right the first are those in which there is no danger of pollution in which there is no intention to in order to actually have climax outside the context of conjugal act outside of coition that is insofar as the other sorry um these these may be done and they are lawful for a just cause that is you can engage in certain kinds of padding and things like that provided that there is no danger of pollution and it can be done for example in some fiction even though there may be times that acts done intentionally that pollution happens as long as it&#39;s not intended as long as the nature of the actor engaging in it isn&#39;t going to cause that so as I mentioned sometimes masturbation is called pollution most moralist say that masturbation by masturbation is self stimulation that done in the context of even the of foreplay self stimulation is considered by every more or less as a or that by every moreless I mean every saintly moralist and every good moralist we would normally associate now I&#39;m sorry a sufficient reason for engaging in these types of acts the various moralist list for instance an increase in mutual love satisfaction the spouse and things of this sort some of the more lists you can talk about doing it in order to keep one spouse from running off and being unfaithful the argument being that some spouses have a right as I mentioned the perfect they also have a right to these and perfect exit responses have a right to engage in foreplay in content in connection to this st. Alphonsus Liguori observes that those who touch themselves in mutual accident masturbation sin gravely okay the second kind of actor those in which there is a danger of pollution but there&#39;s no intention to do so some role so that even if there&#39;s a danger of pollution but there is also a justifying reason for this action such as adverting suspicion on the side of the spouse that maybe you&#39;re unfaithful or restraining some another spouse your spouse from adultery or in obedience to a legitimate request then it may be morally justifiable obviously what this means is is that if there is danger given the tiber nature of the act then you can engage and it provided that if if the danger becomes imminent it has to be seized these more these actions are considered morally licit for a grave cause okay third kind those in which there is danger of pollution and there&#39;s intention to do so and all the good more or let&#39;s say that this is morally centerfolds so in to engage in foreplay knowing that climax is going to occur outside of coition the good MA let&#39;s say this is immoral it should be noted a few things st. Thomas Aquinas asks of what ask a question and actually it&#39;s in agustín or SATA Alphonsus also deals with this regarding is it required that you always engage that that basically that it&#39;s always in order to be morally less that one always engages or one only engages in what they call vaginal sex is that the only thing that&#39;s required that that you have to engage in it in that way and the question comes in st. Alphonsus Liguori he actually I&#39;ll give you the exact quote this is how he asked the question is it always a mortal sin for a male to put his penis in the mouth of his wife that&#39;s exactly how a saint asks the question because he has to deal with this if it in order for the sake of clarity st. Thomas sets the stage for the answer for st. Alphonsus and st. Alphonsus bases his answer on this st. Thomas says that he says that a woman is designed in a specific way so that he uses the term Voss VA s in Latin which we get the word vase from but basically a boss or the this fuss is a place is as a place where something is meant to be put in other words you put something in a vase you know like like flowers and things of that sort what st. Thomas says is is that given the nature of the natural law and the structure of the generative faculties it is clear he says that the male organ is designed by nature to be placed in the vaginal canal of a wall of his wife and not in her mouth or anally so for st. Thomas it&#39;s clear that anal sacs and or and oral sex in which of that nature is amoral st. Alphonsus says that he considers that he comes back and he clarifies a few things in the context of it and he says that he considers that people to engage in undertake that that&#39;s called undo coalition in the sensor or an undo mode of coition and say st. Alphonsus says it&#39;s a kind of species of lust and doesn&#39;t have its place in the proper marital chastity he&#39;s both for st. Thomas and st. Alphonsus to engage in to end that kind of oral sex or in that or in anal sex is considered a vise contrary to nature it&#39;s analogous to sodomy okay so then this the Saints than some other theologians I should say asked the question well what about oral sex with respect to women some Wallis vow it when when men perform oral sex on women how are the principles have to still be applied there has to be no danger of pollution and the issue of the vows has to be rightly observed that means there&#39;s just certain things that don&#39;t belong in the vaginal canal of a woman so that means no sex toys in that respect it also means that oral sex is permitted on the women as long as it&#39;s purely external and there&#39;s no possibility of pollution st. Thomas says that - that the male reproductive organ by its very nature is not designed to be put in other things other than the female boss so you don&#39;t go around putting it in strange places conversely oh sorry from this we can say that oral sex is most probably a mortal sin even for married couples that is we&#39;re talking about oral sex of a little legitimate kind regardless of who&#39;s performing it that is a pollution is going to occur or if it&#39;s done in an undo mode the use of pornography within the context of marriage is also forbidden since the viewing of pornography causes one sense is to fall in undo matter what does that mean well the Saints used to say st. Thomas particularly said that he used to call what they call the matter or the object of the moral Act and the matter is the the thing upon which your action and fall so for instance in the act of throwing a baseball the baseball is the matter what you throw now throwing is the action but it has to fall on some type of thing so as I always say in my classes and virtues there is a distinction between you know there&#39;s a big distinction in matter so there&#39;s a big distinction between throwing a [ __ ] in [ __ ] bowling and throwing a baseball there&#39;s a big difference well in like manner when you&#39;re married and you exchange bodily rights your wife&#39;s body becomes legitimate matter for your for sexual activity no other what no other woman does and so as a result you can&#39;t engage in conjugal relations with some other woman once you&#39;re married but on the same on the same on the same level the church that Christ taught that you know he who desires to commit adultery or he do he who looks on a woman lustfully has committed adultery in her heart and he has already forbidden even intellectually conceiving or of conceiving of undue matter what this means is that in the case of pornography are the senses fall the matter go and fall on matter on someone else&#39;s like that is not due to them this is why it&#39;s not morally permissible for married couples to view pornography and then try out the various things that they see there it&#39;s not permitted modesty therefore must be observed even among those who are married so what is chastity mean for a married couple well chastity means that you can engage in the conjugal act but it has to be in a due mode you can engage in things like passionate kissing and things like that provided there&#39;s no danger of pollution you can gauge in those kinds of foreplay which observe the natural law structure of the faculties as I mentioned observing the proper boss with relation with respect to the woman and you cannot you know you can engage in discussions about these things and things like that provided it&#39;s always with respect to your wife but with respect to that but this means therefore the chastity in a someone who&#39;s married make sure that the inclinations for the desire for conjugal union are done in the due mode that is you want to do it in the right way and you do it according to right circumstances and right time so you can&#39;t you know do it out in public or you know things like that but connected to this also means that there is a certain modesty why because modesty protects the external our external expressions regarding these matters so between a married couple there has to be modesty that they only express their desires or inclinations in matters that are listed and that&#39;s only between the two of them to go outside that context is immodest or to suggest things or to talk about those things in an immoral way that is to you know to try and get your wife to do things very more it&#39;s contrary to modesty and it&#39;s contrary to chastity it also is necessary to train children because parents have to be modest there is a time and a place for these things and so chassis for a married man and a married woman means they only engage in those things at the time according to certain time and they have to protect these things the church has been very clear particularly in the documents before Vatican 2 they were very clear that that conjugal union in the pleasure that arises from venereal Union is so vehement that it requires a very strong control and a certain mechanism and it even requires an institution marriage to keep the thin property order as a result people who are married have to lead a chaste life and they also must lead a modest life not only with respect to them to each other then the sense of modesty of making sure they don&#39;t ever cross the lines but we know but it but also modesty can mean that under do certain stances you can talk about these things etc but in relationship to the children this means that it has to be protected so that the children aren&#39;t introduced to these things too early I know that many people say oh I don&#39;t want my kid to learn it from some other kid on the playground so when he was five i sat him down and told him the birds to be like they&#39;re not even ready for it why are you taking they&#39;re in their innocence away from them in such an early age that&#39;s just ridiculous it&#39;s better you know cuz now they&#39;ve got to be thinking and dealing with this why don&#39;t you just wait until they&#39;re of the proper age but it means though that modesty and chastity have to be made I&#39;m done within the context of marriage this is the one conference I&#39;m allowed questions only so that make sure the case people have any questions just a warning if you&#39;re wondering it probably so is everyone else in the room so don&#39;t worry about asking the question course in the other hand you mean I want to ask questions get out of the subject so we can go on to something else yeah is needing coverage right it can be as long as the hand is not the proper organ for the boss so it cannot be placed in the boss but it can be used for stimulating provided its order towards conjugal union or provided there&#39;s no danger of pollution that&#39;s what the theologians say same thing is you said that stage evolution is done for instance suppose suppose a wife is concerned that her husband if she basically if she doesn&#39;t please him sexually that she&#39;s afraid that he&#39;ll go seeking an elsewhere so obviously if it becomes eminent she has to stop but there are times when it occurs when there was no indication that it was imminent so inaptitude that&#39;s the kind of situation we&#39;re talking about so that would be a just cause although there&#39;s not too many of those as a rule yeah nobody else must ask any questions yeah it&#39;s a delicate topic but it&#39;s one of those things that needs to be talked about because you can displease God and oh I should say one other thing that I forgot to say because foreplay these things are listed morally they&#39;re actually good morally provided they&#39;re done according to do mode and introduce circumstances and all the principles being observed and so is the conjugal act is a good thing God created it intended it to be a good thing which means that you can actually use the conjugal act gain grace how the church has always taught that any acts done any morally good acts done in the state of grace with a charitable intention or with the supernatural intention gains grace so I know couples who actually pray before they get in comes back to a to moderate them in the process of it but also be - to gain the grace to have a supernatural intention of beforehand so they&#39;ve actually gained grace of it it&#39;s Jansenist to think of it&#39;s evil it&#39;s only moral evil outside the context of the foundations or done in an undue mode yeah as far as children go I mean first I was just visiting my daughter and a little fine girl of grandeur yells up to origin of the bath be sure and clean your vagina no I said why these were well that&#39;s the word they teacher in school yeah that&#39;s precisely the problem well what you have to do is you have to know just schools teaching and you have to keep you have to keep you have to keep your kids away from that type of thing this basically comes down to a lot of case that means turn the TV off because vast majority of the stuff that&#39;s on TV is grossly immodest and contrary to chastity but it also means that you have to be able you have to be knowledgeable about the morality of these things and also in a certain sense national law God designed us this way he&#39;d intended this way this is what he wanted so when the children asked the questions again in a frank way but modestly you can explain it to them so that they recognize what&#39;s morally right what&#39;s morally wrong and I think you know to try and be clear-headed about it it may be the case that given the circumstances today you might have to talk about the birds and bees a little earlier with kids then you might have had say you know 50 years ago but it&#39;s best of course if it comes from parents because the parents care the proper authority because they&#39;re the moral teachers of the child and it should not come from somebody at school and there are certain things of course this also means there are certain things that are done in sex education is a that just grossly violate modesty for it you know you hear these stories about the various things they talk to students about what they should do with themselves and things like that well these things are just completely over the line and in a sex-crazed world there&#39;s going to be more and more coercion on the side of those who are disorder to want to control these things because they don&#39;t want to be denied them in any way or to have any reminder that there&#39;s something wrong with them they want to get other people encouraged in their sin so that they feel comfortable about it so you know it&#39;s one of those things that that&#39;s one of the reasons why I&#39;m a big supporter of homeschooling I know some people aren&#39;t but I&#39;m a big supporter of it because it&#39;s within the context of homeschooling that a person can more control what their children I&#39;m going to see here particularly on the playgrounds too because it&#39;s getting really bad there too yeah rather then whirly there difference what&#39;s more the or married help them during their procreation years as older than your old right that&#39;s right there&#39;s no difference so even when you get older this principle still isn&#39;t still apply moderation is less of a problem I&#39;m sorry lot of reasons when you&#39;re older that&#39;s right it is that&#39;s because you know when you&#39;re younger the hormones are all over the place but yeah we had counsel from a priest too many years ago about right the inversion right I didn&#39;t fully understand it explained very well instructors probably something do you have any comments on that as a recommendation yeah as a practice or as a virtue yeah the Saints very often talk about and recommend that from time to time couples actually abstain from the conjugal act even in those times they might desire to for the sake of building chastity that&#39;s for sake of building moderation in relationship to it so the abstinence technically speaking there is no virtue of abstinence regarding sex there&#39;s only abstinence is actually the virtual relationship of food but they use it a transpose the term in raves the context of conjugal relations which is a legitimate use of the term I&#39;m just saying it&#39;s a technical point granted but what so in other words it&#39;s actually a virtue because there&#39;s two there&#39;s two aspects one if you build moderation the second thing is is anytime we offer up or forego any listed good for the spiritual well-being of another or for ourselves we can gain grace from it so as a result that&#39;s a way of practicing self-denial and detachment from created goods and so in that respect it actually built up virtue and detachment and so very often the Saints will recommend it sometimes you know people will say oh yeah we&#39;ve been abstinent for 40 years that&#39;s because it can&#39;t stay at each other well it&#39;s not a virtue I mean the virtue is that you actually like the person want to be with them but you decide to forego it for the sake of giving up lists of good it&#39;s the same thing that&#39;s like giving up food you know you might give up the state for a day or two or something like that if you take that often but if you might give up you know a specific B for food you know or something like that you forego it for a little while in order to brain in the appetites and to bring them more under control yeah the same oh okay oh yeah like brother and sister yep it is actually a more excellent state - it has to be by mutual agreement of course because remember when you contract when you go when you get into marriage you can track barley right so one spouse has rights over the body of another so it&#39;s only by mutual agreement that they can forego these things now because one has to say yes I&#39;ll forego my right of access to your body and likewise mean with you or whatever cases when it comes to being permanent they both have to they have to mutually agree to it and in what that is is is what it is it&#39;s a striving for perfect abstinence basically in the sense of they try and for the spiritual good of each other to forego a natural good in order to pursue the self-denial and the grace is to come with being perfectly abstinent that is a it&#39;s a perfection but two things have to be observed one not all couples should do it obviously the second thing is is that there are certain circumstances in which it would be forbidden to certain couples for instance if you have if you have a wife who she might you know she&#39;s a bit flighty she might say oh yeah that&#39;s a great idea let&#39;s do it and then later you know five years later because of the lack of intimacy she runs off and ends up committing adultery in a certain assumed circumstances like that it has to be forbidden those types of things to take those vows private valves can only be done under the under a spiritual director illicitly can only be done in our spiritual director or a pastor and even then he has to do some type of investigation into it before he should allow them to be done or he should be very knowledgeable about it and as a general rule it should be done not I mean it doesn&#39;t have to be I mean you can legitimately you can legitimately state that yes we&#39;re engaging but we&#39;re going to get married but we both have also agreed that once were married Breanna go forgo the rights that you do this from the it&#39;s called the Josephine marriage that&#39;s legitimate but it may not be prudent under certain circumstances but so there are certain circumstances which you need to simply cannot be allowed and some that it can and normally it should not be done until after childbearing age normally it&#39;s more prudent to do it after childbearing age because of the natural inclinations it&#39;s much more difficult and in certain cases you know once you&#39;re married and it&#39;s morally licit the restrictions and the pretty inhibitions drop naturally they should and so as a result for people to say you know we could have access to this thing but we&#39;re going to decide to form a billet when they&#39;re you know and when they&#39;re younger I think it might be a bit imprudent if you have people who are particularly virtuous and have some type of special grace and you can see it may be but normally these types of things aren&#39;t done until they&#39;re past childbearing age or you know older and again it has to be by mutual consent the husband shouldn&#39;t do it just so that he can play Kate his wife and she&#39;ll be happy you know okay we will never do it again just you know okay quit nagging me it can&#39;t be that type of thing it has to be that they really love each other there from going this with each other spiritual benefits does that make sense yeah well that brings up the question of family planning I&#39;ve heard some people argue against it on the basis of that is really just performing birth control yep and and also the see it would seem to me having this brother sister marriage when you can have children in a whole point is to have children so in turn after long and it&#39;s self prevention no having a right is different from the exercise of the right when you get married it is to exchange bodily rights it&#39;s basically dated to take on a right that doesn&#39;t mean you have to exercise it and the church has always said that virginity or abstinence is a higher virtue than in conjugal chastity these look they&#39;ve always said that because why it more approximates what we&#39;re going to be like in heaven and it also rains in the appetites better and things of that sort but with respect to NFP actually this is I have two articles I want to write with respect to NFP one is I probably get rounded one of them but what I&#39;m going to do because I&#39;ve just alarmed NFP cannot be used paisa tel says that a couple can only forego having children if there is a proportionate and grave reason it has to be a there has to be a serious reason for it and so nobody can use NFP if there&#39;s not a grave reason now I know people say oh you know they I&#39;m going to use the NFP because I want to space my children up sorry it&#39;s not a sufficient reason or we want to get about so we can&#39;t have any more children not a good reason it&#39;s not a sufficient reason health of the mother like grave problem with health of the mother or something like that might be is a sufficient reason Pius the 12th gives the example of or he doesn&#39;t give the example of the people at the time we&#39;re giving the example of past health came out with the observations like for instance in China if you know that they&#39;re going to forcibly rape the woman if she becomes pregnant then that would be a sufficient reason to use NFP perpetually for the entire duration of the marriage if necessary but there has to be a sufficient reason one thing I am very alarmed at is that there&#39;s two aspects to NFP there&#39;s the philosophical dimension of why it&#39;s can concur with the natural law and why it&#39;s a good thing provided it&#39;s used in under two circumstances and then there is the physiological aspects of how you actually employ the method I think it is absolute insanity that they are giving people the anatomical details of how to engage in NFP during pre-cana retreats it&#39;s absolutely bananas everybody in the retreat is already struggling with chastity and then they drag out this anatomical detail of the female anatomy in relationship to how to engage NFP it&#39;s just bananas it makes I mean it is it is de facto an occasion of sin for people for the average couple so I think it&#39;s just something that has to be my theory is that when people are prepared for marriage they should be taught about velocity of using NFP under the due circumstances that is for Just Cause and that if they find themselves in that case when they&#39;re married then they go as a couple to a doctor who will teach them how to do it you don&#39;t do it in front with there&#39;s you know 30 couples in a room that&#39;s just bananas and then that&#39;s one of the articles I think it has to be written because that practice just has to be put an end to any other questions so does that answer the question okay yeah and one peripheral question sure right when Wenham a married man looks a physically beautiful woman instead of wedding but physically beautiful he looks and he observes without without getting into being scrupulous about whether this is observing or whether this is lust right you know this has this been it&#39;s been blurred so much in the last 20 years oh yeah yeah the you know sometimes you don&#39;t know when the look is short enough or long enough and you don&#39;t want you you don&#39;t want to accuse yourself of being looking too long to appreciate the beauty that you see you know and yeah it&#39;s a priest that&#39;s much easier to just don&#39;t bother looking it does it just makes your life much easier Fett who is in Padre Pio said that towards the end of his life he never even knew any he never knew by face any of the females in his congregation but okay let me make let me make two distinctions or a distinction I should say Beauty st. Thomas defines as that which is pleasing to a cognitive faculty so then when a person looks at something beautiful they&#39;re pleased with it and that&#39;s what happens when guys look at a beautiful woman they&#39;re either become pleased with it that now it&#39;s in the current of fact there is an intellectual activity you&#39;re looking at them and you can see that it&#39;s that they&#39;re beautiful I need to take a certain intellectual pleasure in that is distinct from taking lust in it where you have a venereal pleasure from it you get aroused or something like that and of course today people can&#39;t make that distinction you know the first time they see a beautiful any time they see a beautiful woman the first thing they do is think of getting her into bed which is just you know which you know it&#39;s kind of interesting I I&#39;ve written these books on psychology and I actually define fixation or one of mental illness of a fixation as when you always associate one thing with another in a wrong way and that&#39;s exactly what&#39;s happening people becoming completely fixated as our culture becomes more licensed and in these areas are becoming more fixated because they can&#39;t think every time this thing comes into their mind they can&#39;t think of it any other way well that&#39;s just a mental you know you just there&#39;s just something flawed in upstairs okay okay having made that distinction for a married man to appreciate the beauty of another woman is not sinful provided of course modesty is being observed in providing he&#39;s not taking any venereal pleasure in it but it&#39;s a spiritual imperfection and the reason being is is that he his affections not not necessarily in the sense of affection in the sense of venereal but here we&#39;re talking about just intellectual affections he should only be reserving for his wife for the sake of the exclusivity also if if guys like going around again it&#39;s not necessarily sinful provided you know it&#39;s you know if you&#39;re observing you can appreciate their beauty on an intellectual level fine but it can also be the occasional sense you have to be careful of that aspect of it but it&#39;s also spiritual infant perfection because people don&#39;t necessarily practice do detachment from it guys become attached to looking at the beauty of other women and they have to begin to break that attachment once they become married and that&#39;s why it&#39;s a spiritual imperfection and like all imperfections it can lead you into sin and that&#39;s why you have to be careful with it even if a guy&#39;s way versus I know guys are various virtuous negative then they can look at women you know and you know only intellectually appreciate their beauty the problem is though is that it&#39;s not exercising do detachment any other questions does that answer the question you think okay okay that&#39;s it if you&#39;re me I&#39;ll give your blessing Benedict&#39;s our day on the boat auntie&#39;s par preset filly it&#39;s bit of sunshine super Abaza tomorrow same bear on it [Music] [Music]

Transcript for:Fr. Ripperger - Catholic Marriage - 2/5 - Conference on Conjugal Chastity

Transcript for:
Fr. Ripperger - Catholic Marriage - 2/5 - Conference on Conjugal Chastity