this video was digitized from the original DVD in 2023 by simply Franciscan it is part of the zuda mafa collection of video recordings of lectures given by Franciscan professors and theologians on topics of Franciscan theology charism spirituality and Ministry the lectures span more than 20 years the zuda Moffet collection captures some of the seminal lectures shared with the Franciscan family in the rediscovery of The Franciscan intellectual tradition a process which began in the 1970s and continues today Sister Lisa zuda and sister Kathleen Moffett videotaped these lectures from approximately 2001 through 2022 with permission from the speakers separately they created and distributed study guides to a the recordings those study guides are available with the videos please look for a link in the YouTube post for further information on the zuda mafa collection please visit our website at simply franciscan.edu e so the question is and this is a great question to think about right what if the Incarnation were always part of God's plan what if everything and I mean everything that has been created and has been put in place was created in such a way that God could become part of it now you think about that you think has it ever bothered you that um God never became an angel I mean the Angels sinned right I mean if we see the Incarnation in relationship to sinfulness and the fall well Lucifer and his crowd they fell before Adam and Eve don't they rate why did God no obviously no they don't um why did God choose to become one of us as a result of the fall and not give the Angels a chance at that may stop and think about it if God has become human but God didn't become an angel you know what that means don't you we're better than the Angels that's what it means we're better than the Angels because we are more loved in some way than the angels are now you know we can't grill God and ask God why do you love us you don't what about Michael what about Gabriel are they feeling bad are are they jealous hopefully they're not but this is the whole reflection around the Incarnation and what does it mean to say God so loved the world he became or he sent his son and we'll come back to that quote a little bit later on Scot says and this is just so you can Al show you a couple of quotes of scotus that are readable um SC says you know the Incarnation is God's Great great work God suum Opus like an artist I mean think of a Beethoven symphony or think of a great Symphony or or think about for a composer or an artist you know tell us what is your greatest what's the greatest work of art you've done and I think scotus in Scot's mind God would say well it was the Incarnation that was the greatest thing I ever did was become human now if we affirm that that the Incarnation is the greatest thing God has done by becoming human then this causes scotus to to begin to think about well wait a minute would would you want the greatest thing you'd ever done to be the result of somebody else's mistake she shake her heads no no we don't want that you'd want the greatest thing you'd ever done to be something that you chose to do because it was a great thing to do and that not just there wasn't any good reason not to do it but there were a just a host of wonderful good reasons why you'd want to do it so to look at it in a linear way for those of you who are more linear thinkers it would look like this what's God's desire right what is God's desire God is a Trinity right so three people those of us in religious life and and even those of us not in religious life you know that where two or three are gathered together there's a party right I mean isn't that right so there's you you've got the Trinity right and what is the Trinity doing all during the probably planning a party right getting the decorations out you know sending the list who's going to be invited do we have enough food do we have enough place you know think of all the Parables that Jesus tells that are about the banquet when Jesus is trying to talk to us about the nature of God's life it's all about the Abundant banquet to which everyone is invited so God's desire is complete communion with all of reality right that God may be all in all go back to the Ephesians quote bringing all things together in and through Christ Jesus so that's the goal is to invite everyone and everything and we'll talk a little bit later about whether dogs go to heaven but everyone and everything into Divine trinitarian Life That's the goal so that's way at the end of the road that's what's that's what we're aiming at to bring everything and everyone together so how are you going to do that well my gosh you know you're going to have to figure out a way of doing it and in the case of God but obviously the way that the Trinity figured out to do it was to actually come and become part of the action here to let people know how much they love to let people know what a what a wonderful and gracious God we have but you can't come into a situation that doesn't exist you're going to have to create a world right so you're going to have to get trees and and somebody was also telling I have all this you know anecdotal information somebody was telling me that there are 15 different Criterion criteria for Planet that's inhabitable by life I mean and they have all of these things and the scientists in the room would be able to give a small talk on that later on maybe during the break but the idea is that there are certain qualities that have to occur one of them has to do with a moon I'm not sure about that water obviously that's kind of the first thing but there has to be a moon and there has to be something like a relationship to a star like the sun I mean it really when you start and think when you think about it the job description for us was was a job description for which there were probably only a couple of really good candidates and of which we were one now is there another one someplace maybe you know maybe read CS Lewis right perilandria I think it's his novel where he talks about this other place where you know God chose to become U well maybe human right if they have humans there God chose to become whatever they were so you've got the creation piece and so you've got all of those pieces that go into line so if you notice and I'm sure you're way ahead of me on this notice what's happening for scotus he's lining it all up in a very linear way of planning beatitude is the end that's the communion that's Heaven that's the kingdom of God however we want to describe it that's the union of all with God in in true Christ Jesus now to get there of course you have to have Christ Jesus right so that's the Incarnation and in order to have um a place for somebody to be born you have to have a place you have to have parents you have to have you know the home so you get creation we can add in the Covenant would be an intermediate staff you'd have Mary right the enunciation she had to say yes I mean often times as I think about this I think well you know is it possible that God asked a few other women first maybe God had been trying for a long time to become incarnate and nobody would take him up on it I mean you think about it right hey sweetie you know no thank you right but Mary said yes you know we we think as if and of course you know hindsight is 2020 we think as if Mary was the only person ever asked ever thought about and Scot has thought that and the you know the Franciscan tradition thinks that but I suppose when you think about it maybe there were other cute girls around e now I I love to show this slide both because I'm a sister of St Joseph and St Francis to sales has had a profound impact on our tradition but also to show the influence of somebody like scotus on somebody like St Francis to sales those of you that might be familiar with his writings Trea us on the love of God the introduction to The Devout life Francis deales in his own 17th century wanted to extend spirituality authentic spirituality to as many people as possible and outside of religious orders and so a lot of his writings and his his pastoral work was to um reintroduce Ordinary People to the enormous love of God at a time in the history of French spirituality where those of you who know your history you know there's a lot of jansenism there was a lot of emphasis on sin uh a very pessimistic way of thinking of you know the 30 Years War a lot of pessimism around there was religious conflict all of that was going on at the time in France and not too unlike some of the things we see in our own world today but this is a great quote and it's from his um homy his for midnight mass in 1622 right Christmas Eve God's goal in creating the world was to prepare for the Incarnation that was the goal the end of his plan was the beginning and divine wisdom saw from all eternity that the word would become flesh taking on our nature and coming to live among us and all of this was done before the creation of Lucifer so even before the angels and the world and importantly we'll come back to this before the fall of our first parents okay so this is Francis Dees doctor of the church okay um as I gave this presentation one time several years ago it's amazing what I pick up when I give presentations um someone informed me that Francis de Sales died on December 28th 1622 yeah so this was very probably one of his last if not his last homals so here's where he was at the end of his life and it's a beautiful um homy to read the whole thing through and he starts off by saying consider the goodness of God and then he goes on to talk about the Incarnation as something that God was getting so excited about doing even before he did anything else God or they did anything else God was putting everything in place for the Incarnation okay and then another I love to name drop another important person who was influenced by this Vision was Thomas Merton those of you that like Thomas Merton something for everybody in this T Thomas M um a a great Insight in his conjectures of a guilty bystander where he discovers God's abundance and in response to something like Francis um francis's fifth admonition um this notion of consider the dignity consider what does it mean to be human the immense Joy of being a human being we belong we're the only group I mean I like Ros okay so I don't want say anything bad about roses but as far as I know God has never chosen to become a rose bush so we can like and admire other species and other aspects of life but let's fa you know stand up straight I don't mean right now but I mean you know we're the we're we're it I mean God created the world in order to to enter into the world and he chose God chose to enter into the world as as Somebody Like Us like you and me and not even on our good days right there's that Canaanite woman that comes you know with the dog under the table thing you know even the dogs can eat the scraps and that's Jesus on a Bad Day right he doesn't always get everything right but neither do we uh so what does buron say um if only everybody realized this if only everybody realized this but it cannot be explained isn't that true you can't convince somebody they are beloved by God you have to experience it there's no way of telling people they are all walking around shining like the sun and I understand that African spirituality especially Ghan spirituality has this same insight about people shining forth like the sun that within each of us is the sun waiting to shine out this little I was I was looking at this little um plaque over here on the on the ledge and something about disc may you discover the mystery within and may the dignity within be the dignity without I mean just even in our own lives do we bring our external behaviors and actions and attitudes in line with the enormous mystery that is the light within us I this is a l we can spend the rest of Eternity working on this land e so what difference does all this make well I think you're already beginning to make the connections is this an invitation to look again and if we're going to look again what what are we going to look again at okay well the traditional teaching now this is the one I grew up on is probably the one you grew up on the traditional teaching derived from the Benedict and some of canbar 11th century thinker great great Saint great doctor of the church who wrote in a treat is called cordus homo which means why did God become human and he explained why God became human and it's the one I learned when I was growing up and going to school the Baltimore catechism the Incarnation was God's response to sin right Adam and Eve fell okay terrible crime against God right a human person cannot make up for the terrible injury that has been done to God it's an infinite sin it's an infinite fault therefore somebody's got to come who is capable of paying the debt right so sound familiar right okay so so who did that for us Jesus did that for us what a guy right what a great guy he came to take on our sins and there's a lot of this in Paul right Paul has the great Ephesians and Colossians hymns he's also got the letter of the Romans which is nice but there are other parts of Paul that really feed into this notion of you're paying a debt you're paying a debt you got to pay back it's all about paying back and Christ's passion and death set in Balance the scales of Justice once again thanks be to God he went through it we don't have to he open the Gates of Heaven for all of us we don't have to make up for our own sins because God makes up for our own sins right now the the the payoff about this vision and many of our uh Protestant brothers and sisters really can get into this um is that if there were no sin there would be no Incarnation so you got to be real careful about talking about the Incarnation independently of sin because there is no reason for God to become human if if we hadn't sinned I know about you but if I were God I wouldn't have done it I mean I only would have done it for a really good reason and this looks like a really good reason they need it they need they need me right I'm God they need me um just little remote prep for the Easter Vigil right we all wait for it every year when they sing the exultet if you're familiar with the exultet which is s it's very it's a very old Christian prayer uh oh happy fault oh necessary evil if it hadn't been for Adam and Eve way to go right Adam and Eve if they hadn't Fallen we never would have gotten Jesus so let's hear it for our two first parent I don't mean that really for our two first parents I know you're with me right let's here for our two first parents who failed miserably right but boy do we like them right now we know it's a story so we kind of put that part aside but the the theoretical point of it is the Incarnation according to this Theory or this vision is predicated upon what's wrong with us right it's predicated upon what's wrong with us not about what's right with us so I guess admonition 5A for this would be consider your sinfulness you creeps right I mean if Francis had really bought into this he would have said now just go into the corner right take five turn your face to the wall and I want you to think about all of the reasons God has for not loving you and I say as somebody who teaches um young people in college and any of you are involved in education no that's not the message for young people today and I can tell you that's not a God that's attractive to them at all it's a vindictive God it's a hateful God it's a spiteful God it's everything we say God is not but we have a way of delivering a covert message right the overt message is God loves you but the covert message is and you don't deserve it and so as we know any of us in education know a self-fulfilling prophecy will always come true if you tell a student they can't do it they can't do it if you tell them they can do it they can so what is The Franciscan perspective offer in response well it offers scas right that's why I'm here today and some says the the Incarnation is God's response to sin Scot says no the Incarnation is God's design it was the plan behind the plan right it was plan a wasn't Plan B he didn't have to come in and do something quick at the end to save everything uh and some says the Incarnation was a Divine reaction to sin Scot says no the Incarnation was God's initiative and God is always ahead of us I mean it it shifts the way we think about how God reacts God doesn't react we're the ones that are reactionary God's an initiative taker so God is already like a great chess player right God is already five moves ahead of us and it doesn't matter which moves we make God's already got the game like the like you know better than the best computer we can think about and some's uh Vision will say you you get rid of sin at your peril because if you get rid of sin you get rid of Jesus or you get rid of Christ you get rid of the Incarnation Scot says nope nope you've got him anyway now sin is a reality and we'll talk about this before the end of today sin is a reality for scotus so it's not about pretending sin doesn't exist and it's not about pretending that we're perfect what it's about is Shifting the way we look at the world and like any good shift like a gal you know you've seen those pictures where the you've got the two faces and then you the dark in the middle and then you shift and suddenly the dark in the middle is a vase and the two faces become the background so what's in the background moves to the foreground what's in the foreground moves to the background that's what we're talking about so we're not talking about get rid of sin altogether we're simply saying no sin is a background in this whole thing it's not the foreground and this I think is key to our experience of abundance and generosity and seeing the world a new I have to give a plug for the real title right okay and S says it's Felix kopa you know happy fault happy fault happy fault uh Scot says with Francis no one rejoices in the Sin of another it is not just uncharitable it is unchristian to to Rejoice that someone else made a mistake and the kind of mistake that resulted in the sorts of things that were lost when Adam and Eve had to be expelled from the garden of paradise I mean that we wouldn't want that on you wouldn't wish that on your worst enemy why are we getting excited about this it's a conversion this involves a conversion in our scene the world so we come back we come back to our uh different elements and what happens well in anel's Vision which I I I just want to say in parenthesis ansel's vision is a gracious Vision it shows a compassionate God who cares about us it's you know the Samaritan on the road who sees the beat up person and stops to help so I I I don't want to make anel out to be the heavy in all of this but I think we can realize that if you've got a perspective focused on sin it can in spite of the best intentions which we all know where they lead in spite of the best intentions result in a spiritual vision that is really very negative very elitist very negative very focused on behaviors rather than attitudes I mean it it it it calls forth sometimes the worst in um sincere religious people so what's the what does the theology become well God is the judge and that's you know it's all about Justice it's paying back it's the debt all that um who are we as human beings we're Sinners right there has to be a reason for the problem and we are we're the problem right we're we're certainly not the solution Jesus is the solution Jesus Christ and of course the whole purpose of the Incarnation was to have not just a victim but an innocent and sinless victim and that's a very important part of this spiritual vision is that innocent people suffer and they suffer precisely because there's a debt that has to be paid now we're going to come back to this a little bit later on but it it feeds in a whole way of a kind of victimization spirituality where on I I'll stop there I get carried away and I and and I don't want to minimize suffering but sometimes people can exal in their suffering it makes them better than other people easy for me I I haven't suffered greatly but anyway um salvation is repaying a dad right it's like a a big uh Ledger for those of you that are into um economics and budget keeping it's the bottom line right it's all about the bottom line got to pay the debt repay the debt it's go God has vending machine kind of spirituality right I I don't deserve this right I pray I I you know I I pay my debts I pay my dues I shouldn't have these bad things happen to me so it's that kind of spiritual um economics with God the escaton is Matthew 25 and of course we all know Matthew 25 because we hear it regularly and we should hear it regularly that the people on the left and the people on the right the people that get to go into heaven are the ones that clothe the naked that they fed the hungry they gave drink to the Thirsty they welcomed The Stranger they visited the prisoner and the spiritual and corporate Works of Mercy that come from that but the bad guys on the left right they're the ones who didn't serve these people so even within this lens there are some people that going to make it to heaven and there are other people who are not and it's going to be by their own um by their own behaviors right and there are some traditions um that really play this out right the Seventh Day Adventist that 144,000 thing I mean you know it's it's there are you can get more relief right you can get it down to numbers you can get it down to people I like get now we're sure we know who's going to hell the ecclesiology right who belongs to the church well the few right the ones who've been saved the who've accepted Jesus as their lord and you know there's the whole um way in which we can play this out and mythologies my favorite one what inspires us to go out to the world we got to save them you know as he has done for us we will do for them right we'll go out there and you know the 19th century this 18th and 19th centuries neocolonialism or colonialism I mean this was had the t-shirt on this one we go into those countries we turn them into us we will raise them and train them to be like us and then we don't understand why they don't like us because we have to save them from themselves because they have no idea how sinful they are they don't even know my gosh they don't even know they're sinful we have to tell them so the first notion of of conscientization uh especially I think in our missionary efforts not ours obviously personally but you know our for theirs in the missionary efforts was to impress upon people how they were rather than to impress upon them their dignity how beautiful they were and so so many people in third world countries have these divided Consciousness right they're ashamed of their color because they don't look like the people that they're supposed to look like and that's not even to mention all the pictures of Jesus we um had around the world that looked like us and not like them anyway you you can you know you can carry on with this because we can understand um and it's consistent and I think that's the point I'm trying to make this is a consistent lens and it one thing follows the next and it's attitudes toward it but it's based on sin sin becomes not just the elephant in the room but the only thing we think about the only thing we talk about the only thing we strategize according to this Vision it's The Franciscan Visions also scotus what what scotus does God is love that's God's first name love that's God's middle name that's God's last name right love love and love love who are we me well we're the Beloved right we're the ones that are loved and no we don't deserve it so get over it and move on right no we don't have to think about now this makes us great it doesn't make us great it makes us fabulously loved I mean if um for any of us you know and I'm sure we've all fallen in love at least once to fall in love is to realize the World Turns Upside Down and nobody's changed the thing but all of a sudden we're turned inside out and the deepest recognition is that we don't deserve it and so we have this enormous sense of gratitude that somebody has loved us who is Jesus in this not so much the sinless victim god with us Emmanuel that's the plan be with us so notice these all have biblical sources so The Franciscan vision and the scotus vision is not throw away your Bibles ladies and gentlemen we're now going to talk about how how good we are no no there are strong and significant scriptural bases for this Theology and it's always been in the tradition it's just always been as it were under the radar under the radar salvation is not about repaying a dad it's about reconciliation it's about peacemaking it's about embracing the friend notice I didn't say embracing the enemy because when you embrace them they're no no longer your enemy it's transforming the enemy into the friend that's what salvation is that is salvific that is how we make whole and make healthy and make holy the escaton rather than Matthew 25 is Matthew 20 and I know some of you know this but what Parable is that I'll have to C about ready to stop for um a break the workers in the field the 11th Hour remember the guys that show up at 6:00 a.m. and work all day yeah then those creeps come at a quarter to 5 and they get and they get the same amount right what a Gip what a Gip right so we can identify we can identify with the people who've been working all day long but in some ways they're the Pharisees right they're the ones who then they're the religiously righteous they're the holy people they're the ones that have kept the law that have gone to Temple that have done their prayers that think they have a relationship with God but what does the parable show they don't they think they have a relationship with God but they don't see the way God sees and that great line of the owner um are you jealous because I'm generous are you jealous because I'm generous so in some ways this Vision it it invites those of us who have turned away from sin and try to turn away from sin but our turning is not over it's not just about turning away from sin it's also about seeing the world differently and ecclesiology is everybody and our purpose in life is to imitate God's love so we the the last one about the ecclesiology the church is everyone right everyone ultimately called uh and the myology the the attitude we should have in in our work in our apostate in our um reach out to the world is this that of the Incarnation in other words we will do what Jesus did and if Jesus came to be present then guess what that's what we're called to do we are called to be present where we are and not necessarily come in with the great message the great Insight the great reform um and Valiant proposal but rather to just be with people and be present to them where they are which again you know these are things that are easy to say so hard to do it's much easier to save the world that it is to be present to it I think at least for myself it's much easier for me to come into a situation tell everybody what to do than to come in and be attentive to what's going on in this situation and to try to work out or to be that presence that loving presence of God in the midst of of that situation so it's a real call for all of us and I like to um uh extrapolate a little bit on the Matthew 20 just this is a a a joke that I like to tell or a funny anecdote um so if you think about Matthew 20 that um you are going to have the sense You' worked harder and longer and and now that I know there are some Sisters of St Joseph in the room I can really tell the the joke that I normally tell about at least for my community right csj's um we would have been the Matthew 20 Parable we'd been there at A4 to 7 in the morning we'd be working all day long we'd take a shorter lunch um we do yard Duty then we'd come back in then we'd be working hard and at about A4 to 5 you know the franciscans just kind of be MOS down Ro and you know we'd say where have you been and it's well we ran into a couple of people we [Laughter] knew but as I like to say to people when I think about Matthew 20 I as I like to say to groups I would my advice is prepare yourself now for the people you will run into in heaven because I think there are going to be some people who will surprise us and I'm positive that a couple of people are going to be floored to watch you walk through the fly Gates so there's going to be surprises for everyone and uh another nice way of thinking about land is to think about it as a time when I prepare myself for all of the reconciliation that I will need within me as I you know you never know who you're going to be sitting next to at the banquet those Place cards are going to be there and you just might find out that the one person you were sure would never make it to Heaven is the person next to you and you've got to make that small talk that you make a dinner Hi how are your family anything good Happ you lately so so it is a stark uh confence I think when we see it laid out in this way we can really appreciate apprciate what a shift it is in the um in what we look at and what we pay attention to and somebody came up to me at the break and this often happens to me when we look at these things somebody came up to me at the break and said you know i' I've always thought this I've always had this hidden my little hidden spiritual vision has been this one over here the one where God is love and I've tried to a keep my mouth shut and B kind of stick with the program um when it comes to talking about it because I thought the party line was over here and in in order to be considered Orthodox you you had to kind of speak the doctrine and um it more often than not I've had people come up to me and say this is this is the spiritual vision that has given life to my life has given life to my relationship with God has given life to my Ministry and I think what is so refreshing exciting and enlightening enlivening for me as I look at this is to recognize that there is a deep deep tradition within our Catholic tradition that is this vision and it's not just the Franciscan tradition there are church early church writers the church fathers a lot of the Eastern fathers of the church who wrote in this kind of vision it was a divinization vision of the Incarnation it was not a sin based vision of the Incarnation so it is in our history but you know I feel like those those um commercials on TV where they say you know you get the watch but that's not all right or you'll send in your 1995 and you'll get the the chopper and the slicer and the dicer and then and you go through all that okay but then they say but that's not all right so scotus like the great U marketer that he is he says you know what you liked it so far it's not all there's another baffo p piece of information that you're going to be really excited to hear and that is this and here's a little quote from scotus so you say you know the guy it is well said he says that God always rewards beyond our worth hot dog right and universally Beyond any particular value which an act might Merit so guess what we don't deserve it okay fine move on right it's not about deserving it it's not about deserving it because nobody deserves it not even the best of us deserve it this Merit this reward is beyond nature and its intrinsic goodness so their nature has intrinsic goodness we have intrinsic goodness and what we're going to get in respond for the lives that we try to live we're trying to do them well try to do well it's going to be more because God loves to do this I mean love is generous and this is the way God's going to behave generously so what does he call it gratuitous Divine acceptance so like those old Arcus posters right it's not the case that God just doesn't make junk because God doesn't make junk right so there's nothing nothing overwhelmingly gratuitous about this because God has made us and think back Francis of the CES admonition 5 right this is we're considering the dignity this is all a meditation on the dignity with which we've been created so much dignity that we even get more reward than anything that dignity deserves I mean that's phenomenal right to say you thought the abundance was just enough no no it's more it's even more than the second um you know we had the the first the aneli vision we had the scotus vision well guess what there's more than that and I suppose we could just put love in every single one of the categories right who is God love who we love what is salvation love who's the church church love um who's going to be there at the end love and so the answer is everything everything and everybody um and so now we'll come back to as I promised um do all dogs go to heaven this is a great this is a great contrast for you you'll remember this you'll forget everything else but you remember this that's a great story here's um this is a a nice way to remember the difference between scottus and Thomas aquinus whom I like very much by the way but here's a nice one Thomas aqu says that um Heaven involves understanding and loving God now since we're the only beings that can understand God animals and you know lower forms of life they're not going to go to heaven because the requirements of Heaven are that you are able to understand and love God so we are we qualify because we can understand and love God so according to aquinus rational beings go to heaven but irrational or non-rational beings there's they'll have a nice kind of a sub heaven but but basically it won't be our Heaven no scotus says this what is heaven what do we mean by heaven heaven is the complete experience of God of which a being is capable I'll say that again heaven is the complete and full experience of God of which a being is capable according to that definition animals won't go to heaven because they're already in heaven because animals and nature already experience God to the fullest extent of their natural capacity we are the ones that are not quite clear on the concept we're the ones that need help now that I think it's a phenomenally different way of understanding what is it mean to be in heaven I mean this for a number of people this explains why animals have the kind of attention to and sensitivity about us and what we're going through the power of animals to be present and consoling especially to people at the end of their lives I mean this is something there and the elderly they're just discovering you know something animals probably knew all along they're just discovering the power of the pre and it's pure presence right dogs especially you know poor they're just pure loving presence so you don't have to worry about animals you love uh Scot says we will join them there we will join them there we don't have to wait for them to come to us we'll join them there it's it's a beautiful it's a beautiful way of thinking about um about heaven and about animals with whom we share this Earth um father Alan Walter said to me once he said yeah I think Scot has had a dog that kind of explains it right okay okay so now what is this mean we're getting ready to break into some little groups what does this all mean right so what happens now this this is the soad question so what does it all mean well it means basically here's the short version of the whole talk we can shift the focus from our fallenness and not lose the Incarnation I mean that's the payoff as far as I'm concerned and the secondary payoff is that God's love is not measured by our Brokenness by our fallen love God's love is measured by God it belongs to God to be generous because love is generous and that's all God asks us to do is imitate that generosity okay so what difference does it make well as I said at the beginning I think it's a difference that makes all a difference it's a tiny teeny weeny difference but it makes a very big difference we have an optimistic vision of the human person now you know in The Franciscan tradition you have an optimistic vision of the human person I mean just radically Franciscan I that you're just radically in love with people people that's why You' get there late we're working all day long ran into people had to talk to them couldn't get away without a cup of coffee but you know enormous love for the world enormous love for the world an abundant vision of divine action God's out in front we don't have to worry about God catching up with us we're the ones that need to worry about catching up with God an affirmation of divine presence and that's really what it's about it's about being present to what's going on and as we know it's not just being physically in a place right cuz we we've all been in places where we were physically there but not there and any of you are teachers who know it's not enough to get the kids in the room they can be in the room and out of the room at the same time so to think of presence in a psychological way mindfulness attentive to watching every sign because as We Know some of the most remarkable and revelatory indicators happen in detail Small Things They I'm distracted by the next thing I have to do or I got to get out of here and go see somebody else I will miss what somebody communicates to me probably not verbally what they communicate to me about where they are right now and what their needs are I can completely miss it you know I didn't see anything well no you didn't but were you looking and finally a vision inspired by hope and joy right it's giving giving words and giving witness to the hope that's within us at a time in our global economic National Civic political history when um we need to um call upon the spirit to fill us with the grace to really give witness to the hope that's within us and not I'm watching the news every day I'm sure you are too I to watch NBC this is not an advertisement but Brian Williams was saying a couple of weeks ago you know people have been writing to us and they've been saying would you stop reporting such negative news I mean people are committing suicide over the kind of stuff that you people are talking about as the chattering class right you have nothing else to talk about so let's talk about whether or not the economy is going to recover as we know ordinary working people don't young people don't need that they don't need it what we need are people who are offering examples of Hope and abundance and so now NBC Nightly News every night they are showing these stories fabulous stories of human generosity and you and I both know or we all know these things go on all the time it does it's not the economic crisis that has brought them to happen but I think in many ways in the economic crisis we're starting to look for them people that are just living lives of generosity pouring forth around us many times people who are not of our faith tradition who are in fact evangelizing us to the kind of men and women we should be in the world I mean what was it the great um and pessimistic philosopher of the 19th century Frederick nii said what's so attractive about Christianity none of them look very happy you know we're supposed to be the good news right this is if this is the good news I don't want to hear the bad news right so it's a call this is a real call for us to be prophetic and to be in some ways countercultural to the concerns and the negativity and the downward thinking and the scarcity thinking that can go on there's not going to be enough for all we're all going to lose everything we have but we have to be creative we have to think outside the box I hate that expression but I'll use it we have to think you know be daring be Innovative think about different ways of coming at situations and realizing that we have and I say this to myself especially when I'm stressed I walk around and I say I have everything I need to do what I am called to do I have everything I need I don't need more I've got everything I need and if we had that attitude we would probably end up doing with less and we would um be more joyful and be happy e but wait all this is fine right but aren't we just getting a little too carried away with how happy we are how hopeful we are as I mentioned earlier in response to a question um one of the benefits of anel's vision is that it really takes seriously and squarely addresses the question of suffering and not just any old suffering but the suffering of the innocent you know how do we understand when some a child is diagnosed with leukemia or there's a tragic death of a youngster who's trying to get out of a gang infested neighborhood but he gets caught in the crossfire I mean these are sometimes what we might call meaningless moments of suffering or situations where a young family where the mother is diagnosed with cancer too late and and dies how do we how do we deal with that um in the anselmian vision of course there there is a way of dealing with it and it it has to do with this notion of of suffering for another right yes I know you didn't deserve what happened to you but you can join your suffering to the suffering of Jesus and thereby make up for and even Paul has this right to make up for what is lacking in the sacrifice of Jesus so there is a kind of a calculation that can go on where we can offer it up right I remember that when I was a child you know for the poor souls in purgatory right or any other poor souls that happen to be hanging out wherever they're hanging out that as Jesus was the innocent victim who suffered to redeem us we can be innocent victims who suffer to redeem others so there is a way in which anel's model handles that and I think in a lot of ways it it handles it in a in you know a reasonable way it may not might not be the best way but it it is a reasonable way that you can make some sense of it um but Scot's Vision really doesn't seem to make sense of it uh it just leaves it out as it were I mean in some ways it the the problem is less about explaining how a loving God would send his son to suffer as to how a loving God will allow me to suffer this person this loving God apparently loves as much as God does what is the meaning of suffering and I think there The Book of Job is the wonderful biblical backdrop text that why do bad things happen to good people and as I heard a rabbi lecture on the Book of Job once and he said in the Book of Job we have every single human response to the Unexplained suffering of an individual if you look at the different characters in The Book of Job And if you know the Book of Job well you know that there is no final explanation as to why job never gets the answer to his question God simply says were you there when I put the world were you are you the one that calls forth the dawn are you the one that makes sure the stars are doing what they're doing and the answer back to job is more an answer of you you can never understand all of this and the meaning of all of this and I think that is also part of our tradition what we call the mysterium iniquitatis the mystery of iniquity the mystery of evil and sin and suffering that lies at the heart of all human life so there is a part of it that will always lie beyond our our ability to um to understand in fact this Rabbi said the key to the Book of Job is not the questions that job asks or his friends weigh in on nor um any answers because there are no answers the key to the Book of Job is that God shows up that's the key to the Book of Job not that God gives the answer but that God is present and God takes the question seriously and that from the Jewish perspective what's so good about job is he's able to stand in God's presence and try to give God a little lecture right because this is the prototypical Jewish attitude of Covenant that this is what it means when they say Moses can speak to God face to face as a friend speaks to another friend you know job is at work and look God in the eye and say do you have any idea what you're doing and that that is in a lot of ways the the ideal Jewish relationship with God and I think in some ways it's a healthy human relationship with another um person with with whom one is in relationship right to be able to look God in the eye and say what the heck are thinking of I mean in some ways it makes us feel better and uh but we like job need to be ready for the fact that there may not be the answer that makes sense to us in terms of an economy of Salvation you know 35,000 innocent victims have to suffer so that everybody gets out of hell in the end you know you can we can put together the calculation if we want to but we don't know that that's anything other than just our own attempt at making sense of it so what does The Franciscan tradition do with this question of suffering and what would somebody like go to say to the question of suffering well um there are really two different questions we can ask about this and I I'm going to suggest that I I think the Franciscan answer is the second one and not the or The Franciscan question is the second question and not the first question the first question is the question I have just laid out and the one that we tend to talk about why do innocent people suffer why does anyone suffer and why is there evil in the world right if God is so good why is there evil in the world now I think there are many Traditions that um engage with this question and they engage it um fairly directly in and fairly clearly certainly I would say the ignatian tradition takes it seriously and engages with it seriously um perhaps the Dominican tradition takes it seriously and engages with it seriously the vedican tradition may take it seriously and engage with it seriously but to my mind and of course you're the representative so I'm just the outsider to my mind uh it seems to me the question from your traditional spiritual approach does not have to do with expl explaining the phenomenon of suffering it has to do with relieving the suffering so in the and again this is the presence right if we are present to what's going on then it's less about explaining or helping someone else put words around whatever Theory might help them get through their suffering and I'm not against Theory I think each person deserves to be able to say why they think they're suffering but for me as an onlooker or someone who's participating in the uh life of another person who is suffering it seems to me The Franciscan question is the question of response what am I going to do in the presence of this suffering now you know we have to watch that question what am I going to do because sometimes what I am called to do is ask the person if they want me to do anything and if they say no then that's what I have to do but to be present to their suffering and if I can see what can be done you know if this is a hungry person I certainly don't want to what do you want me to do feed me you know are you you know how you know it doesn't take Rockets sometimes the concerns are those that you don't have to be a rocket scientist to work out what needs to be done getting somebody help you know if somebody's lying on the floor bleeding you do not ask their permission to call 911 you call 911 you take care of the person who is suffering but some instances of suffering are such that if somebody were to come in and try to fix it or make it better or explain it or do something too active or overly active it would not be appropriate to that situation because this is I'm you know you're in the presence of somebody who is suffering and maybe all they want you to do is be present to them and I have not had the kind of experience I'm sure many of you have had in hospice care or dealing with people who are terminally ill for my limited experiences all I know is the hardest thing in the room or the hardest thing to do is to stay in the room and be present to somebody who is suffering and not do anything it's so much you know easier fling around you know can I bring in water can I bring in we we have that desire to to be effective to be able to say well they were suffering and I relieve their suffering or they were suffering and I was able to do something when in fact it's to stand with the person to just stand there um one of our sisters Works in detention I'm sure a number of you know people are you yourselves working in detention Ministry and you know sometimes in detention Ministry um all you can do is go with the young person when they go to court and just be in the audience not do anything not stand up for them as their parent not not do anything other than simply be present be with them they know you're there be present to them through you know writing letters and all of that the way where we can be present to people who are in prison so this the the second question is of it's the existential question it's the active question it's franciscans might say it's the process question what do I do what is my attitude meant to be what are my actions meant to convey it's I think like everything else we've seen it's the harder question because the theoretical I can get drawn into a kind of a theoretical reflection which may in fact distant me distance me from the actual suffering in the room and I don't know about you I've had situations in my life that have been disappointing I wouldn't call them tragic but disappoint pointing and I've actually had other people try to weigh in like the friends of job let me explain to you why this has happened right let me explain to you what you could have done differently to have um avoided this situation and you know they mean well and I think we need to acknowledge that they mean well but I didn't find it helpful and in fact I found them responding to their problem with what I was going through and not asking me to talk about my experience of what I was going through so it's a Nuance that I think is important important to um to to bring forward that there is in Scot's approach or this Franciscan approach there is a way in which it appears to leave suffering off the radar as something we don't need to deal with or evil off the radar as something we don't need to deal with I think it's very much on the radar for the tradition but I think the the the question that is asked is not the theoretical question about the meaning of the nature of the why would a loving God allow this to happen I mean that those are questions for perhaps others and for the person who's suffering themselves but our question as someone with uh walking with someone who's suffering can be the more proxis approach e here are now a set of set of questions so you get to choose what questions you think about and talk about um but it is very much in terms of what you have said and and more or less the questions are the same but it's all about Divine love from the very beginning so how do I see myself how can I get TR as you say in old ways of thinking in different negative ways of thinking and what are the moments of divine presence in my life so that's the first set of questions e a season of active loving how do I see myself as my life as one of presence how do I see events as Divine epiphanies and then the third slide a season of transformation e how do I already work I hope you're at least able to think oh I do that already what do I I already do what's working how could I deepen this ability and how do I see my La effect as one pouring out Divine love to a broken world