is this sign seeking Casey short answer yep yeah it is okay it doesn't seem like receiving signs is a negative thing it's just if you keep pushing the limits which Mlen seems to do again and again and again and nothing satisfies you that it becomes a problem the cheap way to get the thing that God wants to give you anyway signseeking fewer planned responses and unless I get a sign I'm out of here that's negative sign seeking we have faith so that the Lord can give us signs it It seems like there's that kind of relationship happening there hello Casey we are back hello Scott we're here once again section 64 through 66 this week and uh this is part two we are covering sections 65 and 66 here so 65 is just one of those little shorties but goodies casey this is uh one of my favorites honestly uh because of how much it packs in six little verses as we go through it I'll explain more as to why this is so insightful to me but before we do that what was the context what do we know about the context for this [Music] section section 65 is the first section I believe that's received at John Johnson's home in Hyram Ohio and this is going to be a place that is is hugely consequential for the church this is where uh the Doctrine of Covenants is born essentially it's where they hold the conference uh to decide that they're going to produce a new book of scripture that just so happens to be the book that we're reading right now um it's also going to be the place where Joseph Smith uh works on his Bible translation for about a year he's staying here um it's also going to be where he receives the vision of the degrees of glory or section 76 and tragically it's also the place where Joseph Smith is attacked by a mob and loses a child in March of 1832 that happens so this kind of marks a a new epoch in the Doctrine of Covenants because the revelations of the John Johnson farm are huge first of all on every level socially economically especially theologically and this is the beginning of that about 2 months before um in section 63 the Lord commands that the Isaac Moley farm which is in Kirtland Ohio is going to be sold and that just so happens to be where both Joseph Smith and Sydney Rigdon's families are living at the time that the Lord tells them to sell the farm so they have to find a new home and they're asked to uh seek it out through prayer shortly thereafter in answer to their prayers these recent converts John and Elsa Johnson uh invite Joseph and Sydney's families to come and live with them on their farm in Hyram Ohio which is about 30 mi southwest of Kirtland and the original building is still there um it's a beautiful church historic site right now that you can go visit uh Joseph Smith writes "On the 12th of September I removed with my family to the township of Hyum and commenced living with John Johnson." Joseph's family lives in the Johnson home and Sydney's family lives separately in a small log home that's on the Johnson farm and since this is kind of away from the hustle and bustle of the church in Kirtland it gives them kind of comparative peace and quiet so they've got time to focus on what Joseph really wants to do which is complete his translation of the Bible uh a work that he has has engaged in but he's been putting off because of all the things happening traveling to and from Missouri and other things occurring in fact he he records from this time until the four part of October i did little more than to prepare to recommence the translation of the Bible according to his own history section 65 is received in the fourpart of October those are his words where the two earliest surviving manuscripts of this revelation possibly recorded later are dated to October 30th in his history Joseph Smith designates this section just as a revelation on prayer but William Mlen who might have been present when the revelation was dictated and made a copy of it soon after clarified that it was related directly to Matthew 6:10 a passage from the Lord's Prayer where the Lord instructs his disciples to pray using these words "Thy kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven." So Joseph has already worked on Matthew 6 over 6 months earlier and we don't really know why he comes back to the this particular verse at this time or exactly what his question is linked to this but he may have been seeking a clarification on what it meant to pray for God's kingdom to come or more specifics on when God's kingdom was going to come or how in any case section 65 deals with those two questions what does it mean to pray for God's kingdom to come and when is God's kingdom going to come and how so there's the backstory uh should we dive into the [Music] content all right so an initial and striking feature of section 65 is how biblically drenched the language is Casey like this is only six verses long but it contains these really rich unmistakable biblical phrases and ideas from places like Isaiah 40 Matthew 16 Daniel chapter 2 Revelation 19 Matthew 25 Psalm 107 and Daniel 7 which is quoted a bunch of times in Matthew where the Lord's prayer is uh is coming from also Hebrews chapter 1 and Matthew 6 and all of this is just seamlessly woven together into this really beautiful coherent insightful packed message on the vital topic of the kingdom of God and you don't have to read the New Testament very long Casey to to realize that the kingdom of God was central to the mission of Jesus Christ right the very first words out of his mouth uh as he begins his ministry is the kingdom of heaven is at hand and this is just the the cadence of his entire ministry is just teaching the kingdom sometimes he shows the kingdom by doing miracles um he's teaching parables about the kingdom the kingdom of heaven is like I mean it's all kingdom of God focused right and then he does this curious thing in Matthew 16 where he promises Peter that he would give him the keys of the kingdom and all of these topics are kind of swirling in the air around what section 65 addresses this the kingdom of God so let's drop in for instance to verse one it begins with his invitation to hearken to the voice sent down from on high he says whose message to mankind is quote prepare ye the way of the Lord and make his path straight this was the very message of John the Baptist in his generation when he declared repent ye for the kingdom of heaven is at hand again there's that kingdom theme right and verse one is saying this same message is now being proclaimed in Joseph Smith's day verse two the keys of the kingdom of God are committed unto man on the earth and from thence meaning from the keys of the kingdom shall the gospel roll forth unto the ends of the earth as the stone which is cut out of the mountain without hands shall roll forth until it has filled the whole earth so whoa let's think about that for a second let's break it down so the keys of the kingdom of God now elsewhere in the Doctrine of Covenants those are called the keys of the church in section 42 and they appear to direct and they appear to refer to the authority to direct like where and when and how God's kingdom is to be established and regulated upon the earth and these are the very keys that were committed to Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowry by Peter James and John referenced back in section 27 so it seems like the Lord is saying here right if if the question again we don't have the question exactly that Joseph was asking but if his question was something like "How will the kingdom of God be established on the earth how will God's will be done on earth as it is in heaven in preparation for the kingdom of heaven to come?" Or something like that then verse two is starting to give a pretty insightful answer right he's saying it's going to be under the direction of those who hold these keys of the kingdom that the gospel he says will roll forth unto the ends of the earth like the stone cut out of the mountain without hands will roll forth that's that imagery of the rolling stone filling the earth in Daniel's inspired interpretation of King Nebuchadnezzar's dream back in Daniel 2 where the various kingdoms of the world are depicted as this big huge statue that's then destroyed by this stone cut without hands and Daniel's prophecy remember is that the day would come when the God of heaven would set up a kingdom which would never be destroyed but which would instead break in pieces and consume all earthly kingdoms and stand forever so verse two right out the gate is hitting with a punch here it's explaining that the gospel kingdom is going to grow throughout the world as the gospel rolls out under the direction of those who hold kingdom keys casey Roi to verse two and this is already pretty darn insightful and there's a lot to unpack there you could spend a long time just studying Nebuchadnezzar's dream and what it means exactly um one thing with the book of Daniel is to be a little cautious with it because it's so rich in prophecy and a lot of people spend a lot of time trying to figure out exactly what Daniel was talking about but this is one place where the Lord clearly does identify an element from the book of Daniel as the the stone being the church or the kingdom of God in the latter days so verse two uh seems to be explaining that this kingdom of God is going to grow throughout the world as the gospel rolls out under the direction of those who hold the priesthood key so it's going to happen under the direction of keyh holders let me go on to verse three yay a voice crying prepare ye the way of the Lord prepare ye the supper of the lamb this is a reference to the millennial day and make ready for the bridegroom is a reference to the second coming of Christ the way in which the Lord's disciples are then encouraged to prepare for this day in verse four is to pray unto the Lord and call upon his holy name and make known his wonderful works among the people and as the disciples pray they are to specifically call upon the Lord that his kingdom may go forth upon the earth that the inhabitants thereof may receive it and be prepared for those days to come specifically those days in which the son of man shall come down in heaven clothed in the brightness of his glory to meet the kingdom of God which is set upon the earth and this is another reference to a prophecy found in the book of Daniel in Daniel 7 specifically in which the prophet Daniel saw in vision a day when these are his words one like the son of man came with the clouds of heaven and was given a kingdom that all people nations and languages should serve him and that his kingdom shall not be destroyed and Daniel 7 tends to be one of the the passages that Jesus spends a lot of time on uh in his ministry like his favorite title for himself is the son of man it's this nice perfectly cryptic phrase that you're not sure whether he's talking about himself as like just a human like the phrase is used in the book of Ezekiel or if he's talking about this which is this Daniel 7 prophecy that the son of man will come in the clouds of heaven and be given the kingdom the kingdom that would would uh never be destroyed and uh would be given to the saints of the most high and that's exactly what Jesus will lean into calling himself the son of man of Daniel 7 uh is ultimately infuriating to the leaders in Jerusalem uh he'll quote this when he's being tried right before his crucifixion he'll quote Daniel 7 and uh the the high priest will rip his clothes in frustration and say "Have we not heard him speak blasphemy because Jesus applied Daniel 7 to himself." Uh anyway so it it's interesting that it's coming up here here's the Lord's commentary on what this means in the Lord's Prayer thy kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven here it is right we're talking about this kingdom of God being set up on earth in preparation for Jesus to come and we're being asked to pray that the inhabitants of the earth will receive the gospel in preparation for that day and then verse six concludes actually in the form of a prayer it's like its own little mini prayer about the Lord's prayer that says this quote "May the kingdom of God forth that the kingdom of heaven may come." Okay pause okay he's making a distinction here between the kingdom of God and the kingdom of heaven and that distinction I think can be understood best as the church and kingdom of God on earth on the one hand let's call that the kingdom of God and then Christ and his resurrected saints like all those that are waiting to come down with him as the kingdom of heaven on the other and so the prayer here in verse six is that God's church and kingdom will spread sufficiently throughout the earth under the direction of the kingdom keys back to verse two so that Christ and his heavenly kingdom may descend from above and unite with God's earthly kingdom below to launch the millennial era in all of this the prayer concludes that thou oh God may us be glorified in heaven so on earth so when these two the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God fused together in that millennial day this will be the day when God is truly glorified only then will God's will truly be done on earth as it is in heaven and only then will quote thine enemies be subdued that is Satan he'll be bound for a thousand years and all ungodly influences will be overthrown for thine he says oh God is the honor power and glory forever and ever amen that's it six verses almost like an expansion on the Lord's prayer uh giving us doctrinal insights and uh other words that we can pray uh in in preparation for the kingdom of heaven to come to earth super cool [Music] casey let's talk controversies in section 65 uh maybe the main one is is a phrase here that Latter-day Saints particularly the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints emphasize that not many other churches do and that is the concept or idea or the phrase the keys of the kingdom of God which I believe uh appear here in the doctrine of covenants for the first time correct yes kind of like section 27:13 speaks of Peter James and John where it says "I have committed the keys of my kingdom and a dispensation for the last times to you." But Casey section 27 and section 65 what's their chronological relationship especially that phrase in section 27 that's complicated because part of section 27 was revealed uh in 1830 while Joseph Smith is still living in Harmony Pennsylvania but then the second part that actually talks about the keys of the kingdom isn't in the Doctrine of Covenants until 1835 which seems to suggest that when Joseph Smith was putting together the 1835 Doctrine of Covenants he sought additional revelation on the keys and ideas that were being talked about in section 27 so this might be section 65 chronologically the earliest reference to the keys of the kingdom which is going to become a big deal to Joseph Smith and a big deal to Latter-day Saints today no that's interesting okay so this is the very first time chronologically the idea comes up so what's the controversy then do other Christians talk about priesthood keys is their concept of priesthood the same as ours we started setting this up by me saying "Hey uh I work with Community of Christ a lot." They don't ever talk about priesthood keys they just believe that their authority comes from the fact that some of the people that founded Community of Christ um were were priesthood holders in the church under Joseph Smith so like William Marx was ordained to the priesthood therefore they have the priesthood and a line of authority that extends on but a lot of times Latter-day Saints from our church will come back and say "Well you have the priesthood but you don't have the keys." And it seems like we draw a distinction between holding the priesthood or authority of God and holding priesthood keys yeah i don't know of any other Christian denomination that talks about keys keys of the kingdom we have I think in Protestant Christianity the concept of the priesthood of all believers meaning those who feel a conviction from God you feel called that you can go out and preach and that kind of thing you don't need authorization from any hierarchical priest or anything like that in Catholicism I know they've got different like priesthood orders with you know orders of priests and bishops and maybe cardinals all the way up to the pope but in terms of keys I don't think anyone else really talks about this but it is biblical Casey that's what's really interesting right this is a a phrase that only comes up once in the Bible it's in Matthew 16 verse 19 remember this moment where where Peter uh bears his testimony to Jesus he he says "I know that you're the Christ the son of the living God." And then Jesus responds back "Blessed art thou Simon Barjonah for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee but my father which is in heaven." And then Jesus makes some promises to Peter one of which is verse 19 I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven that's it that's the one spot in the Bible where that phrase comes up and it's clearly important to Jesus and it's clearly significant and Christians don't ignore this verse in fact anytime you see Peter depicted in Christian art nine times out of 10 you see him holding keys if it's in color if it's like a color mosaic or a color stained glass window usually he'll be holding a silver one and a gold one they're they're usually really big keys and uh all throughout Christianity you're going to see Peter holding the keys i just barely went to Capernaum which is the town where Peter was living when he met Christ there's a giant statue of Peter there and he's holding a big giant key it seems like it's all over the place even when a Christian tells a joke they usually say something like "A guy walked up to the pearly gates and there was guess who uh St peter." Which they interpret as Peter being given authority you know to determine who gets into heaven or he's the guardian of the gate like once you start to pay attention to this you can see it all over the place in Christian iconography yeah so it's not lost on Christians that Jesus was mentioning something significant to Peter here and that Peter will get these keys somehow whatever that means there's nowhere else in the Bible that explains it and if you look in like Christian commentaries on what this verse is talking about like the best I can find is they they guess that it might have something to do with legislative power in the sense of being able to authoritatively admit or exclude people from the church like Peter does in like Acts 2 or the Gentiles in Acts 10 or maybe it's absolving power in the sense of being able to forgive sin or retain sin uh or maybe it's the keys of interpreting gospel truths of unlocking treasures of knowledge they say and teaching what's lawful and unlawful honestly that's pretty good given that they only have one verse to go on yeah the other thing about that uh that passage in Matthew 16 is it's followed up by an incident that's discussed in three out of the four gospels and that is the Mount of Transfiguration and I think another thing that sets us apart is the mount of transfiguration is sort of seen as a mysterious um event um to to Christians but Joseph Smith interpreted uh the mount of transfiguration as being the fulfillment of that statement that Jesus made to Peter like this is a statement uh Joseph Smith makes in his history he said the priesthood is everlasting the savior Moses and Elias gave the keys to Peter James and John on the mount when they're transfigured before him the priesthood is everlasting without beginning of days or end of years without father mother etc if there's no change of ordinances there's no change of priesthood whenever the ordinances of the gospel are administered there is the priesthood so Joseph Smith is making an explicit connection to say well this wasn't just Jesus kind of giving a speech he was literally saying what was going to happen next after Peter recognized Jesus was the Christ he takes Peter James and John to the mount of transfiguration and there along with Moses and Elias which in the New Testament the term Elias usually refers to Elijah that's the Greek version of the name gave them the keys and so this idea that not only did Jesus promise the keys and he wasn't just using a a neat metaphor but he was talking about literal keys priesthood keys also ties into the Mount of Transfiguration and the way we see it and and that also has to do with the doctrine of covenants and and this concept and idea of priesthood keys you mentioned the doctrine of covenants like that Casey gives us an advantage in understanding what Matthew 16:19 was all about what happened on the mount of transfiguration like you're mentioning what I want to say here I want to say it humbly I want to say it gratefully but it's true we have an advantage over our fellow Christians in understanding what the keys of the kingdom are that Jesus was speaking about in Matthew 16 because we have the doctrine of covenants here in the doctrine of covenants we learn what these keys are about what they're for uh we know that Peter James and John brought them from their time period to our time period and conferred them on Oliver and Joseph and then the Doctrine of Covenants explains them so for instance we know that these are connected to the last dispensation of time section 27 mentions that which is kind of cool to think about that Jesus gave these keys to Peter James and John with our dispensation in mind chew on that for a minute we also know from section 42 that these are connected with the church somehow we also know that they belong to the first presidency once we get a first presidency coming up here in a couple sections in section 81 and they are to be held equally by the first presidency they're also to be held by the twelve apostles we'll find uh in section 112 uh to help them unlock the door of the kingdom of God to all nations and to send authorized servants to preach the word to those nations uh and then here in section 65 verse two says that these keys direct how the gospel will roll forth unto the ends of the earth in preparation for the second coming of Jesus and I think there's something insightful Casey about calling these keys this full title the keys of the kingdom rather than just shortening them and just saying like priesthood keys because Jesus is explicitly tying this to like his millennial reign and maybe we don't always think about the keys like that like if we say priesthood keys sometimes we think about the person that presides in your church meeting the one that gets to decide who prays you know and gets to invite people to speak or not speak you know like sometimes that's our experience with the keys but it's so much more than that yes it's that but it's so much more than that because all of this is in preparation for the the reign of the king of the kingdom of God in fact every time we say Christ right jesus Christ we are we are invoking a phrase that had everything to do in the Old Testament times with kings with with kingship right king David is is called the Christos he's he's called the anointed one and and Jesus is the descendant of David and it's all tied into a kingdom which will eventually be very literal it will be the political kingdom of God on earth in the millennium right there's not going to be other governments it will be a government run by Jesus who will then turn the reign of this world over to the righteous saints and together they will rule and reign with him uh on this earth like that's that's what these keys are ultimately trying to bring about and so when you see a a deacon passing the the sacrament on Sunday authorized by the bishop who holds the keys of the kingdom to authorize that like it would be a really interesting thought experiment as you see the deacon walking by to ask like what does the sacrament have to do with preparing for the kingdom of God on earth right or to think about every temple marriage that's authorized by priesthood keys or every missionary who is called under the direction of president Nelson right uh who holds the keys of the kingdom uh what's that got to do with preparing for the second coming of Jesus like everything that we do under the direction of the keys ultimately have to do with the kingdom let me segue from that into maybe a second controversy here which is what is the kingdom of God this is another concept that that most Christians tend to kind of um spiritualize to say well the kingdom of God is heaven you're going into heaven you're dying and you're going into the kingdom of God and I don't disagree with that i actually think that's a lovely way of describing it but one distinction we might need to make here too is that the early saints didn't see the kingdom of God as always just being synonymous with dying and going to heaven they saw the kingdom of God as a real thing you just use that language um when you said there will be an actual kingdom that reigns on earth there's an article of faith that says we believe Jesus will reign as the king on the earth like you mentioned the name Christ literally means king in Greek um and this passage section 65 is also saying that the kingdom is going to roll forth in fact it's tying back to that dream that Nebuchadnezzar has that Daniel interprets where he sees the kingdom of God as a stone that literally breaks into pieces all other kingdoms and a lot of people have played around with what Nebuchadnezzar's dream means interpreting that that giant statue that gets destroyed by the stone as being the kingdoms of the earth right down to well this part represents Babylon and this is the Persians and this is the Romans and these are the European kingdoms um there's a lot of great stuff written on that now this passage seems to indicate that the gospel is the kingdom that will roll forth um but it sort of reflects Joseph Smith's growing doctrinal understanding that later on in his life he's going to take this idea quite literally meaning he feels like they need to set up a kingdom of God and he differentiates between the spiritual kingdom which is the church and the political kingdom of God um some of our listeners might be familiar with the council of 50 and and what it is i think we've talked about it in past series especially leading up to the death of Joseph Smith we did a series on the martyrdom last year and in the last few months of Joseph Smith's life he set up an organization called the Council of 50 that was quite directly the Kingdom of God and this organization's kind of been shrouded in mystery because for a long time we knew that the church had the minutes of the Council of 50 but they hadn't published them they did publish them in 2015 you can go and look at them on the Joseph Smith paper site the Council of 50 was quite explicitly a plan to literally set up a kingdom of God in fact this is an excerpt from the Council of 50 minutes from April 18th 1844 joseph Smith explained in the meetings of the Council of 50 there is a distinction between the church of God and Kingdom of God or Council of 50 the laws of the kingdom are not designed to affect our salvation hereafter it is an entire distinct and separate government the church is a spiritual matter and a spiritual kingdom but the kingdom which Daniel saw was not a spiritual kingdom but was designed to be God up for the safety and salvation of the saints by protecting them in their religious rights and worship so he he distinguishes and says "Yeah we're we're not waiting for the kingdom to come we're going to try and build it right here on earth." And I think part of that's reflected in the emphasis the early saints have on building Zion but this is well after they've been evicted from Missouri this is when they're in Nauvoo this is also when they feel like they've been mistreated or neglected or just outright ignored by the governments that they've sought help from and so they're saying "Well maybe we have to set up the kingdom on our own." And they take that idea quite literally latter-day Saints to this day still take the idea quite literally would you agree yeah and that's the the point that I think section 65 is driving home like there is a thing right now called the kingdom of God on earth but it's a preparatory thing for the kingdom of heaven to come and to be fused together with this kingdom uh and that will literally like be what rules the world in the millennial day like that fusion of the kingdom of God on earth and the kingdom of heaven it's Christ and the saints ruling earth in the millennial day for a thousand years like I don't know if we really emphasize that a lot i know we talk a lot about like keeping the commandments so that we can prove ourselves uh worthy of dwelling with Heavenly Father again of returning to live with him again and we we've talked uh in previous episodes Casey how the Doctrine of Covenants and other biblical scripture is really clear we're not going to heaven we're creating heaven here and the kingdom is coming here and we're not planning on ever leaving earth like this earth will become sanctified it'll be the place where resurrected people live and so this whole kingdom of God business is very literal although like you said Joseph does distinguish between a spiritual kingdom and a political kingdom and so our church right now where we separated church and state that would be considered a spiritual kingdom yeah and I I think the reason why he he has to separate the two as time goes on um is in large measure because he wants to make it clear and this comes out very clear in the council of 50 minutes that the church is one thing and the kingdom is a different thing because the kingdom isn't going to force people to believe in the teachings of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that's one thing that's really found in the minutes for instance um this is an excerpt from the Council of 50 Minutes April 11th 1844 uh Joseph Smith explained "God cannot save or damn a man only on the principle that every man acts chooses and worships for himself hence the importance of thrusting from us every spirit of bigotry and intolerance towards a man's religious sentiments that spirit which has drenched the earth with blood when a man feels the least temptation to such intolerance he ought to spurn it from him." So it's really clear in the council of 50 minutes that part of the reason why he's distinguishing between the spiritual kingdom and the political kingdom is he wants it clear that the political kingdom is going to be pluralistic that there will be different religions within the political kingdom and a major thing that he seems to emphasize is that the role of the political kingdom is to protect people from being persecuted based on their beliefs so it's not a fusion of church and state it sounds like Joseph Smith is separating church and state even in the millennium because he believes the role of the church is to persuade people to make covenants with Christ but not force them and the role of the state is to protect people from being discriminated against based on their belief so it really is a huge relief to look at the council of 50 minutes and realize well the kingdom of God that the early saints had in mind was pluralistic it was tolerant in fact let me share another quote from the council of 50 minutes same discourse where he said the thing I just said previously joseph Smith said "The principles of intolerance and bigotry never had a place in this kingdom nor in my breast and I am ready to die rather than to yield to such things nothing can acclaim the human mind from its ignorance bigotry and superstition but those grand and sublime principles of equal rights and universal freedom to all men hence in all governments or political transactions a man's religious opinions should never be called into question a man should be judged by the law independent of religious prejudice so it seems like he's got to sort of separate those two out so the people know if the political kingdom is of God is in charge you're still going to have the right to believe what you want to believe they're not going to force you to join the church that that's a key role of government and he's feeling this way because the United States government has done such a terrible job protecting the rights of the saints up to that point yeah and in those minutes uh he he mentions this too he says the gifts of prophets never were designed to govern men in civil matters he said the kingdom of God has nothing to do with giving commandments to damn a man spiritually just to what you're saying like Joseph is very clearly trying to a say there is a thing called the political kingdom of Christ that will be established and maybe we can start it right that's what the council of 50 is about maybe we should kind of seed that political government let's go out west let's let's leave the United States and go out west and start this little government which turns out to never happen but that's happening on the one hand and on the other hand trying to be really clear that when the kingdom of Christ gains power in this world it's not going to be used to stiff to arm people to believe in Jesus as Messiah right or to accept the truth claims of the church uh there's a really powerful ecumenical spirit here that uh breathes throughout the council of 50 minutes and it's uh pretty cool it'd be interesting to see what what it's going to actually be like in the millennium but it is not a place where if you're not a Christian or if you're not a Latter-day Saint uh that you will not be welcomed there like it's a place for all who are good and honorable uh people of this world the wicked we know will be destroyed in the second coming whatever that means we'll let Jesus decide what wicked means but there will be millions and millions of honorable good decent folks who are not Latter-day Saints who will continue into the millennium and be protected within the kingdom of Christ which is awesome it's nice to know that even if that political kingdom never really got built the blueprints for it which are effectively the Council of 50 Minutes do say it's going to be pluralistic and tolerant and respectful of people's rights and opinions so that's a relief all right so let's talk consequences of section 65 what are a few takeaways we should get from this little [Music] section from section 65 just six little verses a few things are clear first that this in the 1830s and I think we could extend it to today is the season for preparing for the kingdom of heaven to come to earth second that to be prepared for that day the church and kingdom of God on earth must be sufficiently set up throughout the world we got to get a critical mass sufficient to receive Christ and his heavenly kingdom not everyone in the world needs to be converted not every you know but we do need to have centers of strength throughout the world set up in such a way that we are ready for the millennial reign of Jesus whatever that means whatever that's going to look like third that those who hold the keys of the kingdom will be the ones who determine where and when and how the gospel will roll forth throughout the world and thus how God's earthly kingdom will be established and regulated on the earth and then fourth that as the Lord's disciples we all are invited to quote make known his wonderful works among the people and we're invited to truly pray that God's kingdom may go forth upon the earth and that earth's inhabitants may receive it it's interesting that the word kingdom comes up at least twice in the Lord's prayer and now here in section 65 the Lord is saying "No really please pray that the kingdom of of God will go forth on the earth that the inhabitants of the earth will receive the gospel in preparation for the kingdom of heaven to come." Uh and and Casey I've noticed that in my own prayers uh I don't often pray for these things i don't often pray for the kingdom of God to go forth that the kingdom of heaven may come uh until I read section 65 again and then I remember oh yeah Jesus has asked us to actually pray for this like explicitly like it's rare that Jesus tells us exactly what to pray for but here's one of those rare moments uh where literally like he wants us to pray for this and to to pray that God's spirit will be upon the inhabitants of the earth that they can receive the gospel i don't pray for that that often too but I I do hear a lot of people especially recently coming up and saying "I'm just ready for the kingdom you know to come i'm ready for this whole mess to kind of come to an end and for us to move into the millennial kingdom which I think will be a lot more pleasant world to live in than the one we're in right now so good thoughts in section 65 well let's move on to section 66 uh section 66 is just another short section of the Doctrine and Covenants case what 13 verses given to a man named William E mlen what do we need to know about the background to section 66 [Music] william Mlen is one of the most interesting and colorful figures in the history of the church and this is kind of our introduction to him and then he's going to loom large in the next couple sections so let me give you a little bit of background on him uh William E mlen was a new convert from Paris Illinois he meets Joseph Smith at a conference held October 25th to 26 1831 in Orange Ohio and this is a remarkable conference by the way if you look up the minutes I think it's the last time that all the witnesses of the Book of Mormon are together they all bear their testimony just really really neat stuff um at the conference William was ordained to the high priesthood and afterward William actually goes with Joseph Smith to Hyum Ohio uh to where he's living in the home of John and Elsa Johnson he later writes that after he arrived at the Johnson home he went before the Lord in secret and on my knees asked him to reveal the answer to five questions through his prophet so it seems like Mlan is is setting up this idea that he wants to sort of test Joseph Smith so he writes down five secret questions and apparently doesn't tell Joseph Smith what the questions are just goes and asks for revelation and I should mention Scott by the way that we don't know what the questions were william Mlullen tells this story much later on in his life but never actually reveals what the questions are and can't we kind of play Jeopardy a little bit with this section where it's like we know what the answers are so can we surmise the questions at all do you think like uh are there five points made in this revelation that probably are responsive to the questions i mean what what do you think well our mutual friend Jack Welsh actually has done this you can look at the answers given in section 65 and we don't know exactly what the questions are and we won't know until William Mlullen comes back and gets resurrected but Jack kind of looked at the answers and came up with five possible questions that these could be the answers to so it seems like his first question was probably something like how does the church that I've just joined organized by Joseph Smith fit into the religious world that's answered in verse two question two was probably something close to all right what's my spiritual standing how am I doing that's answered in verse three his next question was probably so what's my role in the church uh what am I supposed to do now which is answered in verses 5-8 he may also have asked um about the power of healing he something like I have seen the power to heal exercised by church members am I going to be able to have this power that's answered in verse 9 and then as Final question and this may have been a challenging question to ask is about temptation uh it seems like this is the way uh Jack Welsh phrases it his last question may have been how can I escape the temptations of adultery and sin I have struggled with since the death of my wife and we'll get into that now again I want to emphasize we don't know exactly what the questions were but the contents of the revelation reveal s sort of the things that he's struggling with and and another great thing about William Mlullen is he does keep a journal during his early days in the church this was published a couple years ago by BYU studies and in the journal William actually writes down his own copy of the revelation and he puts a preface on it uh saying this is what William Mlullen writes this day the Lord condescended to hear my prayer and give me a revelation of his will through the prophet or seer Joseph so he he says "Yeah the Lord condescended to answer my prayer he gave me this revelation and the revelation William also said answered his questions to his full and entire satisfaction those are his words after recording the revelation Mlullen also writes in his journal "This revelation gave great joy to my heart because some important questions were answered which had dwelt upon my mind with anxiety yet with uncertainty." So he he does say "Yeah he gave me the exact answers to my questions even though Joseph and us today don't know precisely what the questions were." That's super interesting so this is a test that Joseph Smith passed so William is actually testing the prophet and the Lord gives answer to his five questions like is that okay that's one way of looking at it i mean we we could say maybe he wasn't testing maybe he just genuinely wanted to know these questions but it seems like if that had been the case he would have just gone to Joseph Smith and said "Hey I have some questions and then told them to Joseph Smith." Instead by his own um admission he says "I kept it secret i didn't tell him what the questions were." And years later you know he's still referencing the fact that Joseph Smith didn't know the questions well let's get into the Revelation itself [Music] the revelation begins in verse one like this behold thus sayeth the Lord unto my servant William E mlelen blessed are you in as much as you have turned away from your iniquities and have received my truths sayeth the Lord your redeemer the savior of the world even of as many as believe on my name and maybe we should point out that William Mlen actually comes into the church as a result of the mission that the Lord had commissioned in section 52 where those missionaries were to go from Ohio to Missouri and preach all along the way and then preach all the way back uh Mlullen is one of those converts which is which is great so a recent convert here now verse two verily I say unto you blessed are you for receiving my everlasting covenant even the fullness of my gospel i love that the fullness of the gospel another name for that is the everlasting covenant oo that's so good uh I teach a course Casey called Jesus Christ and the everlasting gospel i like to say to my students we're going to call it the everlasting covenant because that phrase sparkles a little bit when you say gospel everyone in the room thinks they know what that means but when you say everlasting covenant people kind of lean in a little bit like "What is this?" Right it kind of sparkles i love this so the everlasting covenant sent forth unto the children of men the Lord says that they might have life and be made partakers of the glories which are to be revealed in the last days as it was written by the prophets and apostles in days of old so the Lord has sent out the everlasting covenant to prepare people for the glory to be revealed in the last days the ancient prophecies to be fulfilled if question one is how does the church that I've joined fit into the larger world the Lord's saying this is the everlasting gospel this is the truth of the covenant william Mlelen is still sort of growing it's sort of like you you have a testimony you get baptized and then it continues to grow we do have some of his thought process on the day that he got baptized too um he records it in his journal so his journal uh on the day he was baptized reads as follows i rose early and btotook myself to earnest prayer to God to direct me into truth and from all the light that I could gain by examinations and searches and researches i was bound as an honest man to acknowledge the truth and validity of the Book of Mormon and also that I had found the people of the Lord the living church of Christ consequently as soon as we took breakfast I told Elder H smith I believe that's Hyram Smith that I wanted him to baptize me because I wanted to live among a people who were based upon the pure principles and actuated by the spirit of the living God so seems like question one is tell me about this church I just joined the Lord says this is the real deal this is the everlasting covenant and then the next question he's going to have which is answered in verse three is well tell me about me and how I'm doing here's what the Lord says verily I say unto you my servant William you are clean but not all repent therefore of those things which are not pleasing in my sight sayeth the Lord for the Lord will show them unto you so that must have been a little piercing but it is one of the things that it seems like he's seeking is to know his status uh before God um and the Lord addresses this pretty directly um just by saying "Hey you're clean but not all." In fact we have William's thoughts on this matter too um like a lot of new converts who uh face temptation right after they've made a really good decision william said he did in fact in his journal he records this he goes "The enemy of all righteousness made a mighty struggle to persuade me that I was deceived until it seemed to me that horror would overwhelm me i did not doubt the truth of the things which I had embraced but my fears were respecting my own salvation." So is this the true church lord says "Yes how am I doing?" Well that's what I'm really worried about after these doubts come though uh William is visited by N knight uh another one of these people traveling to Missouri who he said came by and by the spirit of God was unable to tell me the very secrets of my heart and in a degree chase darkness from my mind and it seems like by the time William met Joseph Smith he was once again in need of this assurance of his salvation and need of guidance in repenting of his his sins so again those two things that a lot of people wrestle with is the church true which is a major wrestle for some people that are um dealing with it and then the second thing that it seems like a lot of people deal with is am I worthy which again is one of those things that comes back again and again this is very understandable and relatable is there hope for someone like me the Lord says "Yes you're clean but not all i will show you the things that you need to tweak and work on." And in fact he goes on to do that uh here in a couple verses but let's let's pick up verse four where the Lord says "Now verily I the Lord will show unto you what I will concerning you or what is my will concerning you behold verily I say unto you that it is my will that you should proclaim my gospel from land to land and from city to city yeah in those regions roundabout where it has not been proclaimed." Try not many days in this place Hyram Ohio go not up unto the land of Zion as yet don't go to Missouri but in as much as you can send send otherwise think not of thy property interesting go to the eastern lands the Lord calls him and bear testimony in every place unto every people and in their synagogues reasoning with the people and let my servant Samuel H smith Joseph Smith's younger brother go with you and forsake him not and give him thine instructions and he that is faithful shall be made strong in every place and I the Lord will go with you so he's got a mission call and he's got a mission companion outlined here and then the Lord uh gives him a gift here he says verse 9 "Lay your hands upon the sick and they shall recover return not till I the Lord shall send you be patient in affliction ask and you shall receive knock and it shall be open unto you." So William's called to proclaim the gospel and also given the promise that he'll have the power to heal the sick and travel with Samuel H smith the prophet's brother it's interesting to note that prior to this revelation Mlelen had already preached with another Smith brother with Hyram uh and he had also witnessed the power of healing in fact when Mlelen himself became sick he actually asked Hyram Smith for a blessing and he recorded in his journal quote "We immediately bowed before the Lord and with all the faith which we had we opened our hearts to him." Hyram Smith then laid hands on Mlelen who then wrote that it was quote marvelous for me to relate that I was instantly healed so he has been a firsthand witness of the healing power of God and having sought that gift he now receives it these verses are answering questions uh three and four which Jackwell speculates are what's my place in the kingdom lord says go on a mission and question uh four was can I also heal people because prior to this he has seen the gift of healing hyram Smith has healed him so he's asking can I have this happen and it actually does happen he goes on this mission with Samuel H smith a few days later he's giving a sermon to a group of preachers talking about the Book of Mormon and spiritual gifts and afterwards he's approached by a man he calls Father Wood who told them that his granddaughter was really sick so he's getting the opportunity to receive this now without hesitation William Mlullen Hyram Smith they go to the family's home which is 2 miles away and then this is what William records he said "The family seemed quite believing and we all bowed before the great Jehovah and implored his mercy upon the child we then arose and brother Hyram and I laid our hands upon it and in a few minutes the little child got down from its mother's lap and began to play on the floor this caused them to rejoice and the old gentleman got down and prayed mightily then arose and said he believed that the Lord was there now another thing is that we find out is that only a few days before this revelation was given Mlen had injured his ankle and asked Joseph Smith about healing he said that uh in response to this Joseph turned to me and asked me if I believed in my heart that God through his instrumentality would heal it i answered that I believed he would he laid his hands on it and it was healed william then goes to Hyum Ohio where this revelation's given so all this stuff is happening surrounding this where he's seen Hyum and Joseph Smith perform healings he wants to perform a healing and then a couple days later he does uh perform a healing so he's he's super sincere at this point in his life now we're going to get to the next question which deals with some sensitive stuff okay so go to verse 10 seek not to be cumbered forsake all unrighteousness commit not adultery a temptation with which thou hast been troubled and you got to imagine this isn't easy for William Mlen to hear we don't know the exact nature of the temptation he was dealing with but we do know a couple things we know that his wife who was named Cynthia Anne and he he'd only married her 2 years earlier in 1829 died sometime in the summer of 1831 so he's a he's a recent widowerower in fact on August 1st 1831 in his journal he writes a visiting her grave he writes "I visited the grave of my departed and dear companion Cynthia Anne and there they seem to mourn with me for the loss of my dearest friend and her blessed little infant." So it sounds like Cynthia Anne died in childbirth mlelen later writes of spending many lonesome and sorrowful hours after her death so it is it seems like William and Cynthia have a good marriage and the temptation to commit adultery after came from his loneliness um after she passed away and not from any unhappiness with her but again this this is going to be a hard thing to hear right the Lord saying "I know that you're tempted to commit adultery it seems like in these circumstances William's dealing with some stuff but yeah the Lord has to kind of tell him directly don't do that." Yeah and this was probably helpful and insightful for William when he when he received this i can only imagine it reminds me of section one of the Doctrine of Covenants which by the way is about to be revealed section one's going to come what a couple days or something after uh section 66 i think it comes right after this the Lord says part of the purpose of the revelations of the Doctrine of Covenants was to give to the servants of God in their own language understanding so that quote "In as much as they ired it might be made known in as much as they sought wisdom they might be instructed and in as much as they sinned they might be chastened that they might repent and in as much as they were humble they might be made strong and blessed from on high and receive knowledge from time to time the Lord is illustrating with William Mlen here uh what he does for those who approach him uh seeking for guidance seeking for wisdom seeking for uh correction seeking for chastening seeking uh how they can become strong in their weakness and so how beautiful is that right that God is using him as the object lesson to say "Look I I know everybody's weakness out there and I can help you if you come unto me." We shouldn't end the revelation there either the Lord does assure him uh verse 11 keep these saying for they are true and faithful thou shalt magnify thine office and push many people to Zion with songs of everlasting joy upon their heads continue in these things even unto the end and you shall have a crown of eternal life at the right hand of my father who is full of grace and truth verily thus sayaith the Lord your God your redeemer even Jesus Christ amen so the Lord just tells him he's tempted with committing adultery which maybe isn't the same thing as being called an adulterer just that he's been tempted towards it and then assures him hey if you don't do that you'll have eternal life so let's don't be too hard on the guy because a lot of us have temptations that we're dealing with and again the assurance is not weird to be tempted what happens that hurts you is if you give into those temptations if you act upon those temptations which in this particular instance William doesn't he's okay it's it's a couple years down the road that he does run into trouble uh but it seems like at this point in time he's very humble he's very malleable and he's he's doing okay yeah very very good okay let's move on to the controversies [Music] okay so here's a controversy that uh I'm thinking about with section 66 and that is uh was William E mlullen seeking for a sign and did the Lord give him a sign like we just talked about this with section 63 right the Lord addressed a group of people in Kirtland uh back in what verse 7 and 8 of section 63 uh the Lord said "And he that seeketh signs shall see signs but not unto salvation verily I say unto you there are those among you who seek signs and there have been such even from the beginning." But behold faith cometh not by signs but signs follow those that believe is he with his little test here that he rigged up i'm going to ask five questions to the Lord privately then I'm going to go to Joseph Smith and ask him for a revelation and we'll see if the Lord will give me answers to my five questions is Is this sign seeking Casey short answer yep yeah it is okay and and I got to say that like William Mlen is the personification of what the Lord is teaching about signing in section uh 63 like this guy kills me because when when you walk through his history which he himself recorded uh he sees sign after sign after sign after sign and yet it it doesn't seem like it has a a longlasting impact on him now by long lasting I mean in the sense of his entire lifetime he's still in good shape and he's called as one of the 12 apostles four years after this uh but Mlen just had so much proof and the crazy thing is is he always acknowledges that these were real things that happened like he never comes out as far as I know and says "Well Joseph Smith must have secretly read my journal where I wrote down the five questions because he doesn't write down we we don't know where he records the five questions." uh basically and he he never comes out and says "Well Hyram Smith must have been using psychology to trick me into thinking I was healed." Because he he acknowledges that it's genuine and and I mean even after this section is given which is a fullblown sign to the guy five questions that Joseph Smith doesn't know that are precisely answered in the section in the very next section which is section 67 he expresses doubt about the language in the revelations and the doctrine of covenants in fact he's the one that they actually choose to see if he can answer the Lord's challenge to produce a section of the Doctrine of Covenants the way Joseph Smith does so William Mlullen is the thesis illustrated that signs don't permanently convert you but that signs can enhance faith that's already there i think his faith is enhanced here but it's clear even in his later years that though he believes all of this was real and to his dying day he says "I love the Book of Mormon it it doesn't matter." Like it doesn't convert him to the gospel permanently and so in case any of you listeners out there don't know how his story ends we uh we're strongly hinting at that uh he will leave the church he'll be he'll be excommunicated from the church in 1838 uh he'll as a member of the quorum of the twelve apostles he's going to be excommunicated uh up in in northern Missouri and he'll never come back to the church he'll never come back to the church but to his dying day he is convinced that Joseph Smith really got a revelation from God called section 66 in the Doctrine of Covenants like here's his words he says quote "I now testify in the fear of God." This is after he's out of the church this is after he's excommunicated i now testify in the fear of God that every question which I had thus lodged in the ears of the Lord were answered to my full and entire satisfaction and then he says I desire it for a testimony of Joseph's inspiration that's his way of saying I was seeking for a sign and then he said and to this day I consider it meaning section 66 to be an evidence which I cannot refute and yet he does not come back to the church he does not repent i think he's like actually like an interesting human and he's he's a mix of you know good and bad like all of us but uh but this one kills me i'm with you okay see like I'm grateful for his historical record too his journal is one of the best examples we have of a an early Latter-day Saint convert at the same time man signs don't convert do they he just so completely illustrates that entire thesis that it's hard to find a better example of it and it's interesting too that Jesus connects sign seeking with adultery right where he says it's an adulterous generation that seeks for signs then the Lord warns him here about committing adultery and then spoiler alert the reasons that we have outlined for his excommunication are that he lost confidence in the presidency of the church and he consequently left off praying and keeping the commandments of God and note this he went his own way and indulged himself in his lustful desires close quote that that's from Joseph Smith's journal i don't know if that means he full-on committed adultery or not or what but Casey there seems to be again this interesting connection between signing and adultery and I don't know what to do with it i just see it here with Mlen i see it in Jesus's teachings it was back in section 63 where the Lord was warning both about adultery and signing in the same couple cluster of verses the cheap way to get the thing that God wants to give you anyway sign seeking yeah and that's not to say that all sign seeking is bad there was an elder on my mission who was super sincere and he was an older convert to the church he was three or four years older than most of the rest of us and he came to me once and he said you know I was I was reading about Joseph Smith praying to know his standing before God so I prayed to know my standing before God and that night I had a dream where I walked into a chapel and the president of the church was there and he turned to me and said "Eldder would you help me ordain this young man to the priesthood?" There was a 12-year-old in the room because I know you're worthy of the priesthood you hold now that's signing but I mean he he was so sincere and so genuine about it uh that I think it was one of those things where his faith did lead to a sign being given to him and I mean I wouldn't say Joseph Smith was a sign seeker because he was praying to know his standing before God and Moroni appeared to him it doesn't seem like receiving signs is a negative thing it's just it's just if you keep pushing the limits which Mlen seems to do again and again and again and nothing satisfies you that it becomes a problem okay so maybe instead of calling it signseeking when it's the good version maybe we call it seeking a a witness we call it seeking a witness if it's the bad version we call it seeking a sign so how can we distinguish between these two how do you know when you're seeking a witness like hey I will happily join your church God if you'll tell me the Book of Mormon's true like that's what missionaries invite people to do all the time versus maybe what Mlullen's doing or or you know when people cross that line like what does it look like to be doing it wrong great question and what seems to come to mind is your planned response like if your planned response is and unless I get a sign I'm out of here that's negative sign seeking if your planned response is thy will be done whatever I'm told it's not going to change my testimony my dedication cuz this elder I genuinely believe if he hadn't gotten any answer probably would have been okay either way it seems like your attitude towards what happens with the sign because we've all um asked for direction and guidance and sometimes not gotten it or have gotten it from the source we didn't expect to get it from but what happens after seems to determine our faithfulness whether we're seeking signs because we want a sign so that we can have faith or whether we have faith so that the Lord can give us signs it it seems like there's that kind of relationship happening there yeah signs follow those that believe he said in section 63:9 which reminds me of the Book of Mormon in Ether 12 that you receive no witness until after the trial of your faith so there is some upfront faithfulness that is shown or like you're saying your intention is I am fully willing to commit i'll be allin you know my heart Lord you know I don't want to be deceived so help me uh get clarity here so that I can make sure I'm doing the right thing uh that seems different than well I'll believe it when I see it i'll uh I'm gonna I'm gonna continue just to do my own thing and if God wants to tap me on the shoulder and like or I don't know you know like there there's an attitudinal difference that uh is significant yeah yeah what a person brings to this matters a lot more okay well I don't know that we fully solved it but uh there's there's some thoughts to throw out there comment in the comments if you have a better distinction between seeking a witness and sign seeking right the good thing seeking a witness the bad thing seeking for signs like how do you how do you make a distinction between those two how do you know when you're doing it right uh let us know your thoughts in the comments that'd be great let's talk uh consequences uh than for section [Music] 66 the biggest consequence is that it seems like William Mlullen is encouraged here he's promised a crown of eternal life but you'll note that common phrase if you're faithful to the end initially the revelation is a huge boon to him he copies the revelation like we mentioned in his journal and then he adds an addendum which reads a revelation given to William E mlullen a true descendant from Joseph who was sold into Egypt down through the loins of Ephraim his son and this addition to the revelation might have been part of the original record or it might have been added by William himself john Whitmer didn't include these last two lines when he recorded the revelation so they didn't end up in the Doctrine of Covenants at any rate it was right after uh section 64 where the Lord declared "The rebellious are not of the blood of Ephraim." And so it must have been encouraging for William to know that he was of the blood of the birthright tribe of Israel like you mentioned Scott he does go on to be a gifted preacher he converts a lot of people to the gospel when the original quorum of the 12 is called in 1835 Mlelen is one of them unfortunately his service to the church is short-lived because he's excommunicated in 1838 and that's where Joseph Smith records that statement about Mlelen indulging himself in lustful desires mlelen's side of the story is that he was upset with Joseph Smith and the the problems with the Kirtland bank and everything like that but interestingly William never loses his testimony of the inspiration he saw in the early days of the church or his testimony of the Book of Mormon but he never really comes back to the church either so again he's a great personification of sign seeeking and and what its long-term consequences are he's a great example of someone who is complicated like the rest of us like he he bears some of the coolest testimony of the Book of Mormon like decades after he's been out of the church like he'll say things like this quote "When a man goes at the Book of Mormon like to attack it he touches the apple of my eye he fights against truth against purity against light against the purest or one of the truest purest books on earth i have more confidence in the Book of Mormon than any book of this wide earth." He says "And it's not because I don't know its contents for I've probably read it through 20 times i have read it carefully through within a year and made many notes on it it must be that a man does not love purity when he finds fault with the Book of Mormon." Close quote like he's been out of the church for a long time when he says that so he to his dying day he has a conviction of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon but he loses confidence in Joseph Smith as a prophet he stops keeping the commandments he stops praying he uh indulges his lustful desires whatever that entailed exactly he's a complicated character Casey and I don't want to bring any final judgments against him here that's not our call but uh I think we can learn from his uh example how's that can we say it like that we don't want to be too hard on the guy and I'm not going to go into it but he does stir up some other problems for the church after he leaves but we'll deal with that in uh in later sections at the same time he's a human you know and he's dealing with the same stuff we're all dealing with but at this early stage in his conversion the Lord is very encouraging and I hope we can also take away from this section that the Lord takes our questions really seriously and wants us to approach him with our questions and also seek answers through revelation and through the scriptures let's seek for a witness not for a sign whatever that means okay well this has been fun and Scott it's great to be with you and uh we'll see you next time all right as always a pleasure we'll see you next week [Music] [Music]