Transcript for:
Entrevista exclusiva con Bill Hornbuckle, CEO de MGM Resorts International

welcome everyone to the latest episode of the j huddle today we have an exclusive interview for you with mgm resorts international ceo bill hornbuckle now this interview also forms part of the uscio special in the september october edition of gaming america magazine across both gaming and insider and gaming america the uscs special will feature a host of the biggest names in u.s gaming so be sure not to miss out on our must read interviews and grab either a digital or print copy for free so thanks for joining us bill and uh it's good to speak to you again oh my pleasure you're welcome um so for our ceo specials we like to get a very rounded picture of the executive so starting very early on in the story um how did your formative years and education shape the executive you are today um look interesting i i've been in this community 43 years now i came out here to finish finish college i was going to a small community college back in new england uh found the interesting interest industry interesting um actually back then you could become a bartender at 18. and so i was a bartender at the time 21 wasn't the legal age i love the social environment it created got interested in the space and the industry started looking around for hotel schools and ended up at unlv um principally because the running rebels the basketball team here at national acclaim and it was on television and i said well that looks interesting and so away i went i came out here in 77 my math is right um and interestingly never left um i've been here that the entire time i tried a few times in my career to come off and do different things part of my journey was through england i can talk about that a little later if you're interested um but ended up working for hilton hotels at the time um and because of it it was a structured environment you know las vegas still back then literally in the 70s there was so many characters still laying around i'll leave it at that so it was a colorful space it was a fun space um i was a kid from new england who just loved it i loved the sun was happy to get out of the snow and literally never left and so you know early on had the privilege to work with some great folks but i literally started across the street here not even across the street across the lake here in front of bellagio there's a place called the jockey club and i was a room service busboy it was my first job in las vegas because it here you had to be 21 so i couldn't go be a bartender which is what i loved and enjoyed at the time uh worked my way up through it ended up with hilton as i indicated went to win resorts for an extended period worked for steve for about 15 years i learned a lot about the industry particularly through the growth years interestingly today we're going to reopen the mirage i opened the mirage with him in november of 89 for its first time around if you will um and then took the story from there uh ultimately became president of caesars and joined mgm uh 1998. uh actually the same month jim euron joined our former ceo and chairman and sir jim and i have been on that journey here for about 20 odd years together and as you know took over the realm here in march of this year's acting and then recently last month was appointed permanent ceo yeah if you don't mind me saying that that makes you a gaming industry veteran um it does veterans yeah and um also like you say you've spent you spent a number of years at mgm can you i mean i know that's quite a time span but can you talk us through kind of your mgm journey yeah i was president of caesar's palace and the chairman at the time was gentleman named terry lanny terry was at caesars and so through connectivity of the individuals there heard of my existence got to understand probably how i was as as a manager and ultimately the president of the property and they came after me uh there was a transition there that itt was uh under a takeover bid by hilton uh and ultimately barry sternleck the gentleman who created star i would say star wars star world uh start with capital ultimately uh took over the property i came to work for terry a guy named alex gymnesium and ultimately mr corcorian back in march of 98 um fun times you know the company then was a property and a half we owned mgm and we owned half of new york new york and a jv across the street um with a gentleman named gary prim um but we had high aspirations uh the place i'm sitting in today bellagio was being built um and the company had uh benchmarked something called the mansion at mgm as a competitive offset um i had the privilege of opening that working for mr kakouri and that team i don't know better part of three and a half years as the president and co then got interested in in the company was interested in internet gaming um and so i literally ventured out of that more as an entrepreneurial gesture uh with mr kakorian as our principal at the time uh in early 91 um came to the isle of man which you will know uh tried to set up or we did set up an mgm bet mgm uh play mgm at the time but it evolved into bed mgm as well um was in that venture for about a year um we decided the brand and the timing was still not ripe and ready particularly from a regulatory perspective and so we we put that to sleep but in the interim it was at a time when tony blair and gordon brown had aspirations for up to 40 regional casinos so think large-scale integrated resorts mgm resorts had bought land in maybe seven or eight different places sheffield liverpool or had optionality um and pursued that for about three years until over time uh it got beaten down to a couple licenses and then when gordon brown took over it became no licenses and so we exited um and i exited a point where we were looking at an ultimately bought manly resort group and so i i came i didn't i didn't never left here technically but i came back here full time as president of a mandalay bay uh ran that facility you know it was a large convention play for the company at the title still is for the company i got ourselves into that marketplace did that until the great recession hit um and it was kind of interesting back in uh pre-recession pre-oa uh the economy was so good we were making frankly so much money in the collective um we ran autonomous places we reported up to corporate for capital and larger scheme ideas but we weren't running as a single unit we weren't running as one company and simple things like databases weren't merged and so you know 1809 obviously the great recession here pushed us to a different place um we were on the brink of opening city center and almost the brink of bankruptcy is i think you may recall from a discussion with jim um and so we put together a true corporate unit i became the company's cmo at that point in time we kind of all got in the room and said okay who wants to do what and who can do what i was the most likely marketing inclined guy of the group so i end up as a cmo my current colleague and our cfo corey sanders became the ceo jim obviously was the ceo at the time um did that for four or five years in 2012 became president of the company and then recently obviously the transition to ceo as we continued to grow the company both regionally we had opened and i've always been focused on since the get-go one of my remits has been macau and our macau business and our china business and so we opened uh recently our second property in macau as well as we have four non-gaming soon to be eight non-gaming hotels in mainland china and so it's a it's been the growth story as you know has been pretty incredible we've gone from one and a half properties to if you count the individual brands uh almost 30 if you count the the hotels in china we have 19 major resorts gaming integrated resorts throughout domestically here in the us and ultimately china so it's been it's been a fun ride to be sure yeah now like you said that encompasses quite quite a lot in terms of in terms of length of time but also around the world um and and as you mentioned of course you know we we did interview jim aron last year long time ceo and you worked uh science quite closely with him for a number of years as you've said what what's the transition like been from jim maher and the ceo to bill hornbachel ceo well it was a little baptism by fire um i look i've been ceo for one of the transitional pieces i missed um about a year ago maybe a year and a half ago um i became ceo corey sanders moved back over to cfo of the parent um you know my background had been obviously an operative and an operator um and so we wanted to re-divide and conquer if you will um and so i was running in theory the company from a day-to-day perspective um and so that the the the week that all the transition happened uh which was sooner than anticipated um there wasn't a whole lot of change in the operating environment because obviously at that point we were just trying to deal with covid trying to understand it at scale our business had fallen dramatically i mean we had gone from running low 90 percents into the 20s in like 10 days um and then ultimately even within a week's time frame made it a decision to close the properties and kind of you know hopefully lead ourselves and lead the environment and the community to a safer place um so transitionally it was a pitch shocking it was a bit overnight uh and it was um the operating environment for us here was the same as it was and and you know kind of interesting first as interim and now as permanent ceo um we went through you know how long were we closed guys uh three months sometimes two and a half months um and then began to open slowly one property at a time uh cut we opened three i think in the inception and now we've got today the mirage opening so we'll have all but one of our las vegas properties open here and we have all but one of our regional properties open and so we've migrated our way through that transition sure um obviously you know that during this pandemic um i mean i suppose you'd be well placed to kind of answer this is this the most kind of challenging time the biggest challenge the industry has faced it is look there have been some dramatic moments um i go back to what we went through in the great recession um what happened here with us in this company on 10-1 but in terms of ongoing impacts to the industry uh global and particularly here in las vegas and the community of las vegas which is contingent on what we all do uh it's been a yeah it's been without a doubt the longest and will probably not probably will become the most impactful crisis for lack of a better word we've had to endure um but we will um we've been resilient as hell the team has been amazing our customers have been amazing their their resiliency and their desire to want to come here uh despite some closed amenities um they still come and they're excited to be here and so you know it's manageable now and getting better every day um but obviously we still have a journey ahead of us yeah sure like you say kind of there's more of a positive feel now as hopefully the industry comes out a bit more and more and and can you talk us through mgm's approach to kind of the reopening process and also that the health and safety measures that you that you undertook yeah sure we put um we took the whole thing extremely seriously from day one um we thought it would be better to help lead the way you know with the state's largest employer taxpayer etc and so it was important that we do the right thing so we we quickly made a decision to close realizing that the environment was such that it wasn't safe we didn't understand what we were in the midst of really and obviously the longevity of what was about to happen but we knew that the righteous decision was to close and so we made that decision the governor ultimately and the rest of the community came along for the ride if you will which was i think the right move at the time painful as it was you know we laid off 62 000 employees at that point in time we've brought in about half of them back which is the greatness but we put in play a seven point safety plan that um having taken on board a great deal of study outside medical professional help uh some doctoral help from folks at harvard we put together a plan that did everything from the simplicity of must wear masks to room and cleaning protocols we are this year alone we'll spend about 93 94 million tied to health and safety programs protocols ppe etc um we you know anyway simple example you go up to a blackjack table instead of the normal seven positions there's three uh you are surrounded by plexi uh the dealer has a mask you must wear a mask you can't smoke at the game no one can stand behind you you need six feet of social distancing and so the vast majority of our casino environments depending on the state are set up in such a way where we have anywhere from 25 to 50 capacity um and so you know they're safer they're spread out so they don't quite enjoy the energy they did obviously back in uh just about six months ago um but it's a good environment it's a fun environment people are still enjoying themselves and so you know we've set this it's kind of interesting we've learned a lot we learned quickly the value of mobile check-in um it's been a great customer experience we forced ourselves and our teams to take a project and a program we've been working on for a while and bring it to fruition immediately where you can now check in mobley you can use it as your room key so so idealistically you don't have to stand in line you don't have to go to the front desk if you choose not to it tells you when your room is ready you can check out on it you can order room service on it uh you can order and from a from a qr a qsr qsr code uh a menu item uh in a restaurant and so you know we've adopted mobile device and your ability to access services as a customer uh far quicker than we probably would have otherwise and it's been productive it gets people connected it keeps them in charge of their destiny and it makes them feel safe because they are safer than they would have been otherwise and so um you know we've gone through a lot a lot of training with our employees obviously ongoing testing of our employees um and so the protocols are extensive the expense is not without notice um but it's working you know we have a a safe environment as one can be in this circumstance uh people are coming and enjoying it uh our drive traffic in our regionals are actually up year over year in most instances not all but most um where we are going to struggle for time is large gatherings right now we can only gather 50 people and so gathering entertainment if you think about entertainment and meetings which are two key components to conventions meetings business of what we are um they're restricted right now to that which means they're non-existent and so we need to climb our way out of that uh they're clearly not as big a play if you think about it in a regional market um and where drive is 95 of the traffic to a regional casino um we're in great shape there las vegas is a little different international is a play here groups entertainment uh fly traffic of scale uh is is a big deal to us and so we're going to take some time to grow out of this but we will we we have hope and belief that by middle of next year we'll be in a different place when you talk about the uh the fly traffic and the conventions um is that really kind of just waiting on on regulators and and the government and or is there some kind of way you can you can plan in advance for these kind of things um above both so we've put down and literally tomorrow there's a session with our governor here to begin to talk about the protocols of how to meet safely at scale now scale doesn't mean 10 000 people let's open up the floodgate again but right now we're at 50. um there is a large scale meetings mark 80 of our meetings are 250 rooms or less and so if we can get to an environment where we can accept 250 or 500 participants one thing we have here we have space las vegas alone we have 3.7 million so call 370 000 square meters of space um and so our ability to socially distance people and set up protocols that would be unique to this environment are pretty extensive and so we the community are going to present to him on friday a series of protocols he'll contemplate that take it into consideration and hopefully give us some flexibility around that and entertainment venues to go to the next step um it clearly won't be opened you know completely if you will but we're hoping to progress our way to the next step with him and it varies by state if you go to new york right now the one casino we have their empire is not open yet because of the you know obviously new york was hit heavily in the beginning the mayor of the mayor the mayor and the governor are being extremely cautious uh and so we're hoping in september to get that facility open but each place is different the protocols are a little different the mindset is a little different as you may know but you know for us nevada is about entertainment and our convention business at the next scale and so we're pushing hard on that and we'll see what happens uh in terms of the the kind of you talked earlier about the the impact uh not just on the customers but on on the community and especially in nevada um at a time like this um mgm i know has taken the lead but also other operators you know kind of in in the industry um how important are the kind of social impact initiatives that you've been carrying out and can you talk us through kind of the things you've done in that area they're very important i mean um the industry employs directly about a quarter of a million people um unemployment hidden in nevada 30 in april uh at a high so you know what happens here is with what happens in nevada and particularly what happens in southern nevada is the state um and so we all take the responsibility seriously um we have done many things um everything from an employee relief fund internal to our own staff we've we've had the good graces of mr corcoran's foundation which has given us 4 million the companies put an additional 6 million employees and other partners that put in money and so we've distributed 11 12 million dollars already to employees in various uh relief efforts we've gotten behind in a significant way particularly in the beginning if you think about what happened we had massive amounts of food quantity and quality in our our freezers and our kitchens being prepped ready to go out um so we quickly mobilized got all of that food out into the community um set up and can continually set up now uh various food outlets for people in need uh both our employee groups and most notably just the community in general because it's been you know it's been heavily hit both by covid in one context and obviously unemployment uh in the next um the cares act here has been helpful uh but now as you presumably know as of july 31st that has run out and so people are uh surviving who are not employed yet on unemployment insurance which goes through the balance of this year and then that needs to be contended with and so um you know we've got a whole lot to do um but we have set up very social programs for for immediate needs food etc a relief program for our direct employees and we have a constant watch on what happens um in the community with our we've had long-standing partnerships whether it be for food mental health etc uh touching base with our community partners and saying how can we help what do you need what do we need to do and the great news our employees each year have contributed well over a hundred thousand hours of voluntary labor and they've all pitched in whether they're employed or not meaning working coming to work or not they've all pitched in to continue to help the community so it's something we take with great pride some of the initiatives you mentioned and some of the things we talked about in terms of retail um last year earned you a global gaming award for your customer loyalty program and um i just wondered if you could tell us you know what that what that award meant to mgm and and what kind of told you about them jim standing within the industry um well a thank you uh from the organization's perspective uh proud to receive it um look we work hard on a great deal of initiatives whether it's from diversity from a community perspective and or training or hiring whether it's our marketing programs whether it's things like now our new initiative into sports betting we try to be a global leader in almost everything and anything we do um we we're realistic about where we pick our spots we want to go big and or go home uh and so when we do that to get that kind of recognition is appreciated it's understood and frankly shared um we share it with our broader community it doesn't just sit on a shelf it's really not about the actual award it's about what it means and so the comms team the communications team that you know uh it does an amazing job telling the story and so we're you know we we well appreciated and more importantly it's shared as a point of pride throughout the organization well yeah we're very happy to hear that as well uh you mentioned sports betting though and um i remember when i spoke to jim i kind of said sports betting and he said yes you know let's talk sports betting um because we've talked a lot about your the the retail side uh but sports betting and online obviously another important topic for you guys is is the growth of of bet gm i bet sorry about mgm um can you sort of uh tell us what way where you're kind of what stage you're at with the development with with mgm generally look when you get to the scale of our company um you ask yourself what are things that are going to move the needle you know what's going to make a difference what are your big bets um and well you have to take care of your daily business for getting pandemic aside you know the real question particularly for a ceo particularly a new ceo who's been asked okay now what are you going to do where are you going to make your big bets we have a couple one of them is we believe strongly in asia as a growth vehicle and we're going to continue to track and monitor what we can accomplish in macau in context of growth we're excited by japan and what it potentially can bring to the company and the industry down the road it's probably the last big frontier to be tackled if you will and we're excited about all things digital sports betting will lead the way as you know there's been an internet gaming effort for for decades for a couple decades that's not a new thing socially it's a difficult thing but the notion of sports betting has begun to break through we just are opening today our eighth state um we're earmarked to open 11 by year-end and we have 19 in our purview for next year um and so literally by the end of next year you know from a population perspective about half of the united states of america will legally be able to make a sports bet excuse me and so it you know to us and you know we've all seen these numbers it may be eight 12 20 billion dollar market you know there's analyst predictions pretty much all over the scale but without a doubt it's large um without a doubt there will be three or four clear and large winners and then a bunch of also rants um we look at it in the context of how the at least i do the telecom industry went you know a bunch of folks were around trying to figure it out and at the end of the day you got about four or five people that people rely on and go to um in terms of network and trusted brands and i kind of see this space in the same context in the same way so as you know the carry on to the story we partnered with gbc a couple years ago we put bet mgm together um candidly two behemoth companies got off to a slower start than we wanted or liked but now are truly growing steam um we are leading the way in igaming in new jersey uh we need to catch up in sports uh the fanduel and uh draftkings crowd particularly the young males you know love their fantasy and are easily transitioning over to cash but we love the notion of bet mgm in the long term the mgm brand stands for something stands for solidarity it stands for trust it stands for scale and ultimately we have a pretty unique position in that you can from a loyalty perspective go make a sports bet stay connected to something that ultimately from a brick and mortar uh opportunity presents you with a program so if i if i come here i register i go home to colorado i'm sports betting i'm going to get recognized i'm going to get rewarded for my activity at home that i can take back to vacation time when i come back to las vegas and stay one of our resorts pretty unique positioning in that perspective i'm very unique if you will um we've doubled down excuse me um last month we we agreed to put in uh two months ago uh 250 million more to chase down this business um we and we'll continue to pump capital into this thing to see that we gain the kind of share that we need initially um i'm sure you saw it's kind of hard to miss if you follow the space at all draftkings public offering last month they you know it valued at 12 plus billion dollars um is that the right valuation probably not but i'll say this a lot of smart money's in it even if it's half wrong and i don't think it is by the way it's still a six billion dollar evaluation into an environment um and so the capital's following it the interest is there sports and television needs it um and so for us we see it as a massive play uh into the next three or four years of our company's future um i find it quite quite refreshing really that you you know you speak of draftkings in that way and kind of suppose that acknowledging that you know it's a success of a competitor but uh in in kind of i suppose you say chasing the fanduel draftkings crowd um i guess crucial to that is the recent iac purchase of um i think unless i'm mistaken around a billion dollar stake um in insurance they purchased they invested in our company uh a billion it started with um conversation um about sports betting because obviously it caught everyone's attention and the more they got into the story and understood our company and the opportunity that it presented they decided to buy into the parent versus judges just because frankly ben mgm is for today 50 owned by gbc and it's parent and 50 owned by mgm resorts and it's parent uh it's not a public vehicle today whether it is or not down the road time to tell probably will be um but they made a decisive bet they liked our story they liked the valuation of our stock meaning the upside that potentially uh barry diller of note as i do believes this industry will rebound fully that fundamentally nothing has changed in people's desire and and i've seen it in the middle of a pandemic they still come in droves to want to offer what we offer to do what we offer excuse me uh and frankly we're half scale in terms of our offerings a lot of our restaurants are still closed you know and so they're coming at scale it gives us confidence in our industry both short and long term uh a couple things may change but fundamentally the business doesn't change and our stock was cut in half so he sees it as an investment play he sees it as a sports betting integrated eye gaming play and ultimately he has a keen interest for the industry he's been around it for a while i met him 20 years ago when he was hanging around just trying to figure out the industry in the space at that time obviously through his different vehicle not this one expedia has been a massive customer of ours and vice versa remember he owns a big piece of that he's chairman of that company as well and with iac we get a tremendous amount of input and knowledge uh hopefully uh because we're not an interactive company we're not a digital company we do things but it's not our core you want us to build a brick-and-mortar integrated resort get out of the way we'll do it we'll kill it so their ability to help us get to a different spot and get there quicker we think will be meaningful and they have some products and some opportunities that we could integrate as well with database and offerings a simple thing they have they have a an app that enables you to put together and curate an amazing trip and so you know taking that tool set dropping it into our environment and letting people bundle up fun and exciting things is something that can be done relatively quickly so that's the kind of thing we look forward to um and frankly we we loved his confidence in the company it's a big bet on us frankly it's a bet on me um and so he knew the transition was happening and he went forward and said yeah let's let's do something here i think there's something really special with that company and what they're about to do so overall um because i've got i've got one sort of final final question for you which which could be could be considered a tough one but it's because it's broad and you can go anywhere with it but looking at you say asia's a big focus sports betting digital obviously the challenges in the retail space in the short term at the moment and the recovery so the question is uh you know what does the future hold um for mgm but also for yourself sure um look for me i've reached the pinnacle of my career um i mean i literally go back to where i started as a bus boy um i never thought i would uh end up becoming ceo of a company of this scale remember any company for that matter at the time and i think back and reflect uh my mother would be proud god bless her she wouldn't believed it but she'd be proud um but but all that said um look we're at a very unique place in the industry something we've never experienced before um we've been able to garner the support of the community here in the leadership here and so i think we're more from a collaboration perspective from a more single-mindedness and a leadership perspective we're of one voice and of one mind and of one direction and that is to survive the next 18 months we're going to survive it we have massive amounts of liquidity because of our public read and other things we did you know we have the cash to sustain this for an extended period of time um the good news is we're burning a whole lot less cash given the openings that we've had to date and so survival is not the question i think the real question is how quickly do we return what's the pace of that um and it's our general view that by end of 21 we're in you know getting back to normal and that by end of 22 we're looking into 23 as a you know something as a progressive and growth year so keeping the team together keeping the team motivated um every you know we we like most companies cut back we've asked double duties of almost every one of our leadership and so keeping them energized not burning them out all of the obvious things you go through but it's real here given what's what's happened and the scale of which they perform every day is pretty incredible and so i do worry about burnout but you know i i entrust the folks we have we've got a lot of experienced folks and so we'll get through this next phase um helping the industry recover i think entertainment's pretty simple once we can we will and it should come back i think people are dying for that opportunity um the the meetings business may be a little trickier you know anyone who sells product i think will come pretty quickly because they need to continue to sell so large trading industries uh you know the big tech companies of the world corporate america that does smaller group gatherings i think will take some time to rebuild and may want a different presentation and a different product and we're working on how to do that uh and we'll begin to present that even now earlier in earlier stages so i think that's interesting and you know place we'll get to so first and foremost it's getting through this getting as many of our employees back as we can we've got two properties yet to open you know we've got a series of uh leasees and tenants that have been hurt badly by this thing in helping them recover is critical restaurant tours retailers and other merchants that we deal with directly that are either on site or close to our company um we've got a lot of work to do there um in macau we have a license we have to re-secure in 22 our license is up for renewal um that may or may not get delayed but the idea that the essence still won't get delayed forever we absolutely need to renew our license there and talk about a growth plan there and japan it like anything and everything in the world has been delayed but next year about this time the subject will be back hot and heavy we've been ideally positioned in osaka as the frankly at this point the only contender and so long as the program stays together as defined we're hoping to win that bid and go forward with a long-term project they're massive integrated resort that'll help open up that community and that country to tourism at our level and the kinds of things that we do um and then um you know we're always looking here for organic growth and so one of the things to think about is sports betting because it brings a new genre of customers potentially you know i think you know the success of the golden knights here has been in terms of hockey and just professional sports in general the community was dying for professional sports and it fell in love with a hockey team um that has been unprecedented and and it happens to be a good hockey team so las vegas loves winners and so it's it's very helpful the raiders have now moved here we were able to between the community and a bunch of efforts and ultimately some uh big bets that mark davis and the davis family made on moving to las vegas the raiders have now moved here the stadium was completed last two weeks ago they got their certificate of occupancy they're not going to have any fans but it's magnificent and it will bring in another genre at scale in fall of sports fans that we haven't gotten historically and so we're excited by uh what that brings and then digital is truly if we think about changing our platform um you know the building i'm sitting in if i had to replicate it tomorrow would probably cost eight billion dollars the bellagio it just you know to make these things make sense in this world environment given cost of capital which is cheap but given our cost of uh the assets is difficult um and so the opportunity to take our industry into digital um it provides much needed money for states whether it's be through sports betting lottery eye gaming obviously for the operatives like ourselves we're going to make a major bet the question is when and where but i'm going to diversify the company into asia more and into digital gaming more those are the two bigger bets over the remaining ten year i have and then and hopefully at some point in the future when we've stabilized we've grown out of this covid uh crisis we've got asia in check and we've got a real position in sports betting and other eye gaming initiatives i'm gonna go off and enjoy myself and play some golf but that's probably four years from now so we got a journey yet to go um but you know i'm proud to be where we are um i'm proud of what we've done for the company historically and frankly recently um but we got some work to do we have real work to do you know people are depending on us to get back to work uh which is critical i mean there are um you know we brought back i said basically half of our employees will probably get to 60 or so and then until there's a real cure um we're going to be stagnant for a while and so that's the you know how do we survive that period and help them survive that period um because not just us it's everybody in the community it's not like they can go down the street and get a job um it's important to us well uh i mean from everything you've said it sounds like it's an exciting couple of years ahead but certainly certainly a busy one yeah no yeah no no lack of things to do and um and so we'll be we're focused on highly yeah uh well as always we wish you the best of luck and thank you so much for your time and for joining us thanks tim appreciate it take care to our viewers uh thanks very much for watching you