Transcript for:
VTuber Community Drama: Cinder Controversy

Well guys, it took a while, but after 4 months, 2025 has officially had its first apocalyptic level VTuber drama that has caused an industrywide disaster. This is about one of the biggest independent YouTubers on the planet and how for years while pretending to be her friend tried to take away opportunities and suppress the success of an even bigger independent VTuber by the name of Bao. This all started when a very well-renowned artist within the VTuber community published this document titled Terminating My Work with Cinder. This document is such a bombshell filled to the brim with proof that it's currently sitting at almost 3 million views and it hasn't even been up for 24 hours. That artist wasn't the only one. There are multiple documents with a lot of proof published by multiple people, including Bao, who usually stays away from drama. And as time goes on, more and more people are coming out with their side of the story. You have to understand, this doesn't just involve Bao. This involves multiple very successful YouTubers being backstabbed by that person. And that is barely scraping the surface here. Not to mention that her apology was one of the worst I've seen in recent memory. To say that this is apocalyptic is an understatement. The entire VTuber community is shook to its core. So, what the hell is going on? Well, you already know the drill. Let's talk about it. So, as I mentioned, the VTuber at the center of this controversy is Cinder. But she didn't always go by that name. She actually started off in 2020 as a YouTuber by the name of Tashi.mpp3, making a variety of different ASMR RP videos. Like, you're such a good boy for me, ASMR RP. A year later, on June 2021, she would create her Twitch channel under the name of Cinder and would start streaming. During that time, she would build herself a small community of people. But the real turning point for her was a year later on June 2022 when she would officially do her model debut. The whole thing was a resounding success and people fell in love with her model almost instantly. At the time, very few models looked like it and it was seen as innovative, unique even. Not to mention that it had two very big reasons to keep your attention, I guess. During her debut, she would spend close to an hour showing off her model and the different features that it came with. After her debut, she would get a lot of traction. People really liked her model and her personality. Nanoliss was also able to gain some of this traction because she was behind the design of her model. This allowed her to start receiving many commissions from other VTubers who wanted a similar style. And as you can see from how many followers she had in 2023, she was also able to grow exponentially. Cinder would understand that one of the things people loved about her was the design behind her model. So, she stuck with Nano and would keep commissioning a new model or outfit every few months. Now, look, when it comes to VTuber models and VTuber outfits, this costs a lot of money. We're talking thousands of dollars. The fact that she was able to do this every few months already showed the resounding success that she found in content creation. Her average view count on Twitch was unstoppable, reaching thousands of concurrent viewers today, ranking her as the 471st most watched content creator on the entirety of Twitch. Part of the reason of that growth was that she was able to be a part of the VTuber friend group that included the biggest indie VTubers on the planet. She was seen as a dear friend and as far as the others knew, that's how she saw them, too. Always collabing together and always being a part of their tier lists or whatever other challenges they do. But that's not all. Her success knew no bounds. In the beginning of 2025, she announced that she was a partial owner of the company Gamer Subs. This is a huge energy drink company that sponsors many of the top VTubers in the world. She even released her own shaker with them. And the art on the shaker, of course, was also made by Nanoliss and it sold out completely. All this to tell you that she was extremely successful, guys. She was never in any controversy. As far as anyone was concerned, she had a very warm and kind personality as well as a really cool design. So, of course, no one could have ever expected that it would just take one document to make her entire successful career come crashing down in an instant. But that's exactly what happened. On April 26th, 2025, Nanoly, who at this point had become completely associated with Cinder's brand, had published this tweet saying, "Hello, I'm here to share something that has affected me personally and hurt others. This was very hard for me, but I feel like it's necessary. Please do not send hate to anyone on my behalf. This is all I want to say. Linking a Google doc with the title Terminating My Work with Cinder. And in the replies, one could see the biggest independent YouTubers on the planet fully and unconditionally supporting Nanoly with this document. So, let's take a look. Nano starts off with introduction and notes saying, "I wanted to share my experience with Cinder and Red manipulating me, using me, and dragging me into drama while sabotaging, slandering, and spreading lies about people I thought were her closest friends." So, before we continue, you know who Cinder is, but who the hell is Red? Well, Red, otherwise known as Redacted, has been Cinder's manager since she started content creation. This has been a well-known fact. If you knew her or worked with her or whatever, you typically did it through Red. was somehow involved all the time. So, this document wasn't just talking about Cinder, it was also talking about him. Nano continues, "Not only do I no longer wish to work with Cinder, but I want to share what I've endured over the years and shed light on what she has been doing behind people's backs to protect artists and friends that may be experiencing something similar. I struggled a lot with writing this document and wasn't sure if what I felt and experienced working was real or just burnout, but I think this proves that I was lied to and manipulated over the course of years while working with Cinder. note based on working with Redacted and Cinder over the years that I am sure they speak for each other and there is no reason to believe Red was acting without Cinder's consent and knowledge. Whenever I use they or them, it refers to both them acting as a team. English not being my first language and the language barrier. I discussed the situation, my feelings and thoughts with native English speakers who help me put them into words so everything is clear without any misunderstandings due to lack of English skills. Note, any names that are censored here were censored because the creator in question did not provide consent to have their name revealed by the time of me posting this document. So, this is already a handful, right? It's alleging many things, but thankfully Nano has a lot of proof in DMs. So, she starts off with a section slandering other creators. I will start with screenshots showing them speaking ill of other creators and spreading rumors while manipulating me that it's all in our best interest. In addition to spreading ill rumors, they also complain and accuse Bao of giving their editor too much work, resulting in the editor not having any time for new clients, which will be important later on. The screenshots below show them showing their affection and appreciation immediately followed by spreading rumors and lies to make other clients appear problematic to manipulate any future decisions regarding commissions. So, these are fairly recent DMs from January 2025. It starts off with Nano saying, "Of course, I wanted to understand it better, especially if I cancel her for the second time." LOL. with Redacted saying, "Well, with blank, she's given a lot of bias and priority at GS, which is gamer subs over Cinder, and we can't really confront them about it, and plus she's gone 3D lately. Bao has been getting on our nerves for a while. She hijacked our YouTube editor a while ago and is constantly picking up artists that we work with. We've gotten to know her better, being friends with her, but she really rubs us the wrong way with the things she does. We wanted to try and safeguard our most important artist from her since she's already taken our editor. And I don't mean taken like he doesn't work with us anymore. He does. But he has to dedicate time for her now. And sometimes that gets in the way of our projects. Also, one of Bao's music video editors is the one that did the Boss Rush music video. And we're 99% sure she told him not to do any more with us. But like model art is the most important thing. That's a VTuber's entire image. Well, we love working with you. Cinder wouldn't be Cinder without Nano. Okay, but like let me tell you the tea about the music video thing. Bao had original songs last year that had music videos by her editor and the songs flopped. Her editor met us at TwitchCon and was saying that he'd love to work with us, practically jumping through hoops to get something planned. We managed to have him squeeze in the Boss Rush music video between his work with Bao. He says he loved working on it and is super excited to work on the next music video project. The Bosch Rush song blows up and he's credited as the editor. I ask him when he's free to do the next project. All of a sudden, he changes his mind and is only working with Bao going forward. No explanation. Nanolys replies with a panicking emoji and then Redacted continues, "There's some context missing since we know how Bao is behind the scenes, but basically we don't have a music video editor now for our next Boss Rush project. We think Bao got pissed that her editor did an original song music video for her friends without her knowing and it did a 100 times better than her original songs last year that she locked him up so no one else could work with him and then had him make it public on Twitter that he was only working with her going forward, like a literal announcement tweet. And now she's been barking up the tree of one of our live 2D animators. So like and you and a Nano model. Nano replies with, "Yeah, looking for me sounds sus for sure." Redacted says, "It's so annoying. I don't know, man. She has a way of guilt tripping people to get her way." So these are the DMs from January and it's already looking kind of bad. Nano continues in the document saying, "Red asked me to cancel on one of their closest friends, Bao, by asking me to cancel my work mid progress, manipulating me into thinking it is okay since she has many connections and she'll be fine anyway, so I wouldn't feel guilty about it or worry too much. It was and is upsetting to me that Red contacted me specifically to check on me canceling the model I had planned with Bao." So, these DMs are from August 2024 with Red messaging her saying, "Did you cancel models?" Nano said, "I did not." Red replies with Nano Arc delayed to 2026. Nano replies with I'm scared to cancel with Bao. To which Red says, "You shouldn't be. She has so many connections. She'll find someone super fast. Did you already design her outfit? I remember her showing it to us at WeepCon." To which Nano says, "Yeah, I can give her the design for free as an apology gift." This is This is so scummy, man. You have to understand, commissioning a VTuber model is a very lengthy process. Everything from the initial concept to the design to the rigging to the testing. If you don't pay extra, it might take a year. If you pay double, it might take a few months, but it takes a while anyway. And finding someone who's both talented and has a free schedule is almost impossible. So, this idea of, "Oh, she has so many connections is very insensitive and scummy." Nano clearly is nervous and doesn't want to cancel, but Red keeps pressuring her to do so. Such weirdo behavior. Nano continues in the document in the next section titled exclusivity and blacklisting other creators. In the messages below, they mentioned wanting an exclusivity contract, but they didn't want to pay for exclusivity, but rather when a creator from their blacklist comes asking for a commission, they would guarantee me model work for Cinder only. And if anyone asked me for commissions, they'd commission me instead to compensate for not working with other creators. This felt very strange given that one of the accusations they made was overworking their editor. Yet, their solution to me working with other creators was for them to essentially overwork me to keep me from working on other projects. The messages below show that their primary concern is that the more nonsinder models I make, the less valuable my existing models become. It's hard to say how much this messed with my mind as an artist that by working with other people, I'm somehow making my existing models less special. The following screenshot is one of them setting up the blacklist, saying I'm not allowed to work with any new clients or create any new outfits for VTuber 1 specifically, and justifying those things by saying that with each model, my art becomes less unique and special, and therefore Cinder somehow will become less special. The idea that my work as an artist and designer is devalued by working with other people is insane and hurtful. After realizing what taking a deal with them would really mean for both my workload and my mental health, I backed out. So, this first screenshot is also from January 2025, very recent. And it starts off with redacted saying, I mean like if we wanted to have some kind of model exclusivity, what would you need to make that sustainable for you? Nano replies with hm maybe you can share one of your ideas and I can check what I think. Half an hour passes by. Redacta doesn't say anything. Nano says something and it's, "Okay, so I got some ideas for this, I guess." Redacted says, "I was driving. What are you thinking?" Nano says, "Okay, so I asked help from my friends. They don't know it's you, so don't worry. So a monthly fee calculating my monthly earnings. Also, how long would this be and if this counts for models I already worked on?" Redacted replies with, "Well, I think the main things we're looking for are for you to not take any brand new model clients and to not make any new models outfits for blank again." So this is them deliberately targeting one VTuber in particular. Anyway, he continues, "You'd still be able to work on models/outfits with all of your other existing babies, and your artwork commissions wouldn't be affected. One of our concerns is that more nano babies means nano models don't have the same value anymore." And by the way, guys, when he says nano babies, it's a VTuber term. So, typically people who will make your model are called papa or mama, and the vtuber commissioning them is their baby. Okay? Yeah, I know it's weird if you're not into VTubers, okay? You don't have to tell me, but now you know. Anyway, he continues. And second is that there's a few people that we just would rather not be able to have a model from you. Maybe not any new babies at all. The reason why I brought this up at all is that there's been a lot of bias with another one of our partners with certain creators and we'd rather these creators not have what makes Cindra unique, which is your artwork, just drama. An hour later, Redacted comes up with an idea saying, "What about we can pay blank for you and you don't have to discount it from the next payment and we'll continue giving you lots of model work. I think around four this year right now. But you don't work with blank, blank or blank at all. Again, models or art. I don't think you've ever done anything with blank or blank before. We also have another gamer subs label for you too, the AFK. This is absolutely wild. Look at how many people they're blacklisting over here. Okay. Nanoly replies with, "hm, is there any way to add a little bit more since Blank still asks for art every now and then?" Redacted says, "We could do it like when Blank asks for art, you tell her no and then tell us so that we buy another art piece." Like, so you still get a job from it. Now, I'm sure you're wondering who these censored creators in the message are. Well, now we know. This is the full message with Redacted saying, "You don't work with Bow, Cotton, or Blank at all." Again, models or art? I don't think you've ever done anything with Bow or Cotton before. These are again very big independent YouTubers that call Cinder a friend. This is one of the most shameless things I've ever seen. Gatekeeping art from friends and also gaslighting a very talented artist. It's wild. Now, bear in mind there's a VTuber that's still censored here. And throughout the document, you'll see a person of interest called VTuber 1. Those got revealed later, and we'll talk about them in this video, so don't worry. Nano then continues in the document saying, "Another example of speaking ill of other creators right after they saw I was working with Shy Lily. trying to once again make the idea of working with other clients seem like I am setting myself up with problematic people who will do me no good in the long run to get me to reconsider working with them. They also continuously kept asking about my other clients plans which for them made the antenna go up and immediately went into slandering Lily. And when Nano says Lily, she of course means shy Lily. They consistently try to reassure me that despite their best efforts, they just happen to keep trying to bring drama in as reasons for me to go exclusive and that working only with Cinder is them trying to look out for me. So, this is extremely recent, like a couple weeks ago, right in midappril 2025 with Redacted saying, "Hey, Nano, do you have more plans with Lily besides just the model, like outfits or merch or anything?" Nano says, "Been just a model so far." To which Redacted says, "Okay, her asking you for a model recently just made the antenna go up. She's been acting weird towards Cinder lately and we don't know if something's going on. Nano says, "Oh, that's weird." Redacted says, "Ever since after VCard launched, which is a Vtuber trading card game that Shily helped launch." Nanoliss says, "But what do you consider weird?" And Redacted says, "Lately dipping out of collabs they were both a part of at the last minute and now ghosting her messages. Cinders raided her a couple times on Twitch in the past week and Lily won't acknowledge Cinder by name." Just like pretty weird, petty stuff. I don't know. Nano says, "That's super weird since they both share the same store." Lol referring to gamer subs that they both have partial ownership in and redacted says around Vcard's launch they were talking and collabing and I don't know what happened but her asking you for a model after that was just weird even though she said she doesn't plan on getting a new model anytime soon. I don't know hate that we keep bringing you into drama to which Nano says yeah I thought it was quite early to go for a new model. Redacted says feels like we're going to have to compete with Lily if she's ghosting Cinder and wants the same model mama. So, of course, I don't have to tell you, Shily is also one of the biggest independent YouTubers on the planet, and she is someone that considered Cinder a friend. Now, we have proof that she was backstabbing her, too." Nano continues in the document, "The idea that they need to stay informed and gauge the competition is extremely upsetting and toxic to me. The competition they're referring to are people I thought they considered friends who always helped, supported, and platformed Cinder. When I pushed back, the immediate response was blaming the other creators and implying that they initiated it by trying to work with me and that somehow justified their actions. They imply Shy Lily ignored Cinder when she spent over a minute thanking the raid, which you can see in this clip. Let's watch it together. Ignore what you just saw. Okay. Oh my goodness. Hello. Oh, hello. Hello. Hello. I am playing uh Berser. last the the it's it's called the last braceer kazan. We weren't sponsored but the game was really fun so I just kept playing for like a million more hours. Hello everyone. Hello the pyrop raid. Hello pyrops. What did you guys do? I am lowkey addicted. I I usually Okay, so most people know me for my gotacha addiction but I Right. Right. So, I think that's enough proof to see that she acknowledged the raid and did her best to interact with her and her community when they raided her. So, this idea that she ignored her completely is totally false. And I think it was just them hoping that Nano would be too lazy to actually find the stream itself and see Shy Lily's real reaction to the raid. Again, very scummy behavior. On that same day, Redacted and Nano kept DMing each other with Redacted saying, "Real? Is it just Cindra and Blank you've been doing continuous model outfits for? We'll have the demon update list plus final arcade reference for you soon. as soon as it's finished. To which Nano says, "I think it is. I have an outfit for Blank planned, too." As for Blank, "Got nothing for now." But she always comes up with something. Redacted asks, "Do you know who's rigging Shy Lily's model?" Nano says, "Going to be blank." To which he replies with, "Thanks, Nano. Sorry for all the questions. Just got to stay informed, especially when it comes to our top artist, never a break." Nano says, "Don't worry, just don't stress too much with the side things. It's bad for balding." Redacted replies with, "I'm going to go bald now. I'll keep you in the loop about anything else going on with that." Nano replies with the balding. And Redacted says, "No, you fool. Just stupid drama. Got to stay competitive even when we shouldn't have to. Also, your profile picture looks like a guy with a mustache. And Nano says, "Don't go too far on the competitiveness. It can get bad. Got to chill sometimes." To which Redacted says, "Hey, it's not us. We aren't the ones getting a model from the artist of the other gamer subs owner out of the blue and ghosting them and refusing to acknowledge them. You know, this is made weirder by the fact that both Shy Lily and Cinder are co-owners of a company. And this is how Cinder is treating her. Her competitiveness knew no bounds. She would probably push a toddler off a bridge if it meant getting a 100red extra viewers on Twitch. Okay. Nano continues in the document saying, "Bel, I wanted to push back and make clear I was uncomfortable on being dragged into drama, and they responded by bringing up more drama and baseless claims all while trying to guilt trip me. It is ironic and crazy to me that I mentioned not wanting to be dragged into personal issues only for them to on multiple occasions mention other people's alleged drama." So, this is where things get real because it's not Redacted doing the talking. It's Cinder directly. The DMs were from February 11th, 2025, so just a couple months ago. And it starts with Nano saying, "Cinder, just wanted to say sorry for stepping back on the exclusivity deal. Wanted to apologize personally to you since I've only talked about that with Red. But I just don't want to be dragged on any personal issues like that. After all, Blank is still a client, and it makes me anxious and kind of destroys my mental to do this kind of deal. just wanted to let you know I still love working with you in red, but I'll understand if things doesn't work out because of blank. I just love my clients, that's all. Three hours later, Cinder replies with, "I get it, Nano, and it was unfair to push this on you, but it's just really confusing going back and forth about it. I just get compared to her a lot even still today, and it's like I'm always living in someone's shadow, which is one reason why Redacted asked about not making any more models for her. And when you said, "I understand if things don't work out, it makes me feel like you're okay with not working with me anymore." Which hurts so much after all this time. I really appreciate you, Nano, and it's your decision who you ultimately worked with, but this is how I've been feeling. Nano continues in the DMs, replying with, "I don't really see the point of keeping thinking about being compared to Blank. You're so much bigger already. You've done so much more. But I would never give Blank any priority over you. Also, there's not even any model for her being disgusted. I just want to sleep clear-minded. Also, I'm fine not doing her models, but at least Gamer's art stuff would be fine with me. I don't want to be 100% an [ __ ] to her, that's all." And Cinder replies with, "It's not me, but other people's opinions of this, and I'm just trying to not get involved in any drama that other people want to talk about comparing us. But I understand where you're coming from, Nano. There's no hard feelings." And Nano says, "Sorry about this. My mental is just a bit weak." Cinder says, "Same, girl." To which Nano says, "Ah, I'm sorry for bringing this to you." Cindra then replies with, "I want you to get that money. The whole situation is just kind of sucky. I want to just get along." And then Nano specifies that the phrase that she said, "I understand if things didn't work out," meant that it would be mostly if you hate me for not burning blank down from my list. To which Cinder reassures her, saying, "I would never hate you." And Nano said, "Thank you and same. I'm just an insecure bitch." Cinder ends this conversation by saying, "I love everything we've done together, and I want to keep doing more. People saying dumb [ __ ] online just makes me stressed." Nano continues in the document saying, "Justifying their behavior by stating they are simply looking out for me when none of this has anything to do with me to begin with. and manipulating me into being grateful for earning well thanks to them despite the loss of work from longtime returning clients and new clients. As you can see, this is already a handful and we're barely halfway through this document. It gets worse. The next section in the document is called concerning my work and models as a team. Another example of going after other clients of mine from before, claiming that having more clients alongside them makes my work less special with a recurrence of it's just business, manipulating me into believing that working with her is special for multiple reasons and that I risk losing that special something as a client if I prefer to work with others. No acknowledgement of my reasoning and need of working with other clients due to the nature of my work solely focused on their issues. I would also like to note again that this screenshot is one of many occasions that indicate that Red speaks on Cinder's behalf. I was originally concerned with everything going through Red that it may not have been 100% of Cinder's feelings or wants. I messaged her about it to make sure that he spoke on her behalf and confirmed with both of them this was the case. So, this is it. Some people read only the first few pages of the document and concluded, "Wait, this isn't Cinder. This is just her manager. He's probably speaking on her behalf and she has no idea." Well, this right here confirms no. Not only was she aware of what he was saying, but she fully agreed with everything her manager said. These DMs date back to November of 2023, and it's Nano starting off the conversation saying, "Hey, Cinder, hope you're doing okay. I talked with Red and I believe he talked to you already, and I thought it would be best if I just check here personally. Actually, I wanted to know better your thoughts cuz Red tried to talk to me and I think I misunderstood things." To which Cinder says, "I'm doing good. What's up, Nano?" Nano then says, "Oh, it's mostly about this." And it's a screen cap of what Red said in their DM saying, "Not to discredit any of your work because everything you work on is the top-of-the-line Incredible, but when everyone's a Nano Baby, it feels less special to be one, if that makes sense. Kind of been getting the same feeling from gamer subs lately, too." To which Dano says, "I thought on canceling some models because of it, but then I realize it's not really fair to me." To which Cinder replies with, "I understand what he means, but at the end of the day, it's just business." Bro, what is this? the mafia, pointing a gun at your head and before shooting you, saying, "It's nothing personal. It's just business. What the hell is this?" She then continues, "Of course, we love working with you and want to keep working together, but if you prefer to work with other clients instead of me, I know it's for a reason for you to help grow and not because you don't like me. Being one of your very first model babies was so amazing. I was happy to be able to find someone to help you with lived cutting to improve your skills. And I think that's a big part of why I love the 1.0 model and then started asking you for them. I can have Redacted send you a list of our plans for the future and estimated due dates. So, just let us know what you actually want to work on. That way, I have time to look for someone else if you don't have time for my projects or don't want to do them. It feels special to only have your model art for all my outfits, but just let me know if you don't have time for me to be an exclusive Nano Art baby anymore. Nano then replies with, "It's no personal reason. I would never do something like this to you or anyone, but yeah, it's important for my job to reach far and I like working on different projects and people. I never ever said I don't want to work with you anymore." I told Red that even though I have my other works, I will always have a way to get you a priority spot when possible. You'll always be my special baby. Cinder replies with, "I also think it's important for you to work on projects that you're excited about. So, I'll go through my plans with Red and send you our ideas to see if it's possible with your schedule. I know he can be a little pushy sometimes, but it's because he's just doing business for me to grow, too. And he absolutely loves your work just as much as I do." Nano says, "It's okay. We'll update you guys ASAP." And Cinder says, "Sounds good to me." Nano continues in the document saying, "Red tries to make it look like they never meant for it to appear like they wanted me to be exclusive by framing it as something I wanted while immediately doubling down on the fact that me working with more people makes my work less special and no longer unique, as if every design is just a Cinder clone." These are DMs also from November 2023 between Nano and Redacted in which Nano says, "So, it's about working with Cinder. My friends told me it's a bit unfair for me to stop working other models, so I do more for Cinder, which I agree with them. I'm a free artist and I should do whatever I want to do. I don't want to take sides on any drama or situations. I still will always have a way to have open slots for Cinder, but I won't be having her as my only customer. Redacted says, "I agree. You're a free artist and you should do what you want, but I was under the impression that taking on more Cinder work is what you wanted to do. I didn't think it was like we were making you do that." Nano then says, "Guess we got a misunderstanding on both sides. It's more about this." And she replies with the initial message from Redacted in which he was like, "Yeah, not to discredit your work or anything, but whenever you work with other clients, it makes your work less special, right?" To which Redacted says, "Oh, I see. I mean, what I said is still true about how we feel, but I wasn't saying you had to only do Cinder work from now on." Uh-huh. Bro, what the hell is this, man? He then continues, "That's with anything, though, not just your work. If you have something special and then everyone wants and gets that thing, it makes it less special. I'm sorry you were under the impression we were trying to make you only do work for us. I will keep things more business talk and less emotional. Lol. Just let me know how this will affect your schedule so I can tell Cinder after. Sorry for the stress, Nano. To which she replies with, but every single model I do is unique and I make them special in their way. It's not like I'm selling Cinder to everyone. Please don't feel this way. Redacted then says, "No, I know you pour your heart and soul into your models and they're all incredible." And Nano ends this conversation with, "I'm sorry I made you both feel this way, too." So, textbook manipulation, textbook gaslighting, textbook backstabbing. I mean, is there anything here that doesn't scream manipulation to you? Reading through these DMs, I feel very sorry for Nano. She clearly loves to make art and is so conflicted here because she values Cinder as a friend and client, but at the same time, her gut feeling tells her something's wrong. These are very unreasonable demands. Anyway, the document continues, "It's simply business." normalizing their behavior once again by stating that it's simply business to sabotage other VTubers careers and not work with them and focus on Cinder instead. This is again from November 2023 in which redacted says, "It's okay, Nano. You're just making a living and making a name for yourself and I can't blame you for accepting work from other big names in the industry and having very desirable talent. If you end up filling your model schedule again like it was, let me know. We'll have to replan some things depending on that." Nana replies with, "Thank you for understanding my side. We're all trying to have our names somewhere. Just don't take this personal or anything. I still love working with you guys." and again apologize for the trouble on your plans. I'll still revisit my list and see what I got." He then says, "Business is business. If you want to go through the projects we talked about and let me know which ones you'd want to do, too." Later on, Redacted replies to another message from Nano. In which he says, "I don't want to take any sides on any drama or situation." And he says, "Is this about blank model Nano?" Nano says, "Yeah, I want to take it, but I don't want to disrespect Cinder. I just want to do pretty models, no hurt feelings." Redacted then says, "Business is business." To which Nano replies with a crying emoji. Redacted replies with Nano, you're a freelance artist and blank is a longtime client, so it makes sense to continue doing work for her. I understand the logistics of it. At the end of the day, you need to do what's best for you. Nano replies with, "I really appreciate for understanding my side. I do understand your side, too, but sadly it's something between you two, not me. I shouldn't get involved in this fight. I just go art." Redacted then says, "Right, I know. I just didn't think our conversation sounded like I was trying to make you not work with her on the model, like blank specifically." Nano then says, "Maybe I just considered the situation too much, my mistake for thinking this way." and he says it's okay. Then Nano says, "But are we good for real? This feels like a weird breakup. I'm stressing." And Redacted says, "Me and you are good, but I still have to tell all this to Cinder. It'll be fine. Don't worry. I think she's still sleeping." So, it's just a constant back and forth. It's very exhausting to talk to people like this because in 2023, they made her think that by taking on other clients, her art meant less. Then, when she confronted them about it, they were like, "Oh, oh, we we never meant that. We just want you to work on Cinder's Models. Do what you got to do." But then we saw very recent DMs from 2025 as well as 2024 in which they were telling her, "Do not work on models for these people in particular." This just keeps getting worse and worse. Nano continues the document saying, "Damage control." Making sure none of this reaches the other VTubers and is all kept hush- hush while also providing proof that they know what they do is ill and should not get out as it would cause issues for Cinder's career to be painted in this light. Note that the uncalled shot at Vtuber 1 is even spoilered, a hidden message in Discord, so it wouldn't accidentally be leaked. This was from the same day in November 2023. A lot was revealed that day. Nano says, "I try to be transparent as much as possible. I think it's more fair for both sides this way." And Redacted says, "You didn't tell Blank you canceled because of Cinder, did you?" And Nano said, "No, I told all of them it was health issues. I would never blame anyone besides Blank." Redacted then says, "Lol, we never want to make you feel like we're making you or forcing you to work on slashnot work on something, especially if it's something you want to slash don't want to do." And our conversation the other day doesn't mean to convince you of only doing Cinder work. Again, sorry that it sounded to you like I was telling you to do only Cinder work. I'll message you later. So, ever since 2023, Redacted and Cinder have been obsessed with just this one VTuber, always tracking what she's doing and not wanting her to hire Nanolist no matter what. Here you can see redacted saying, "Well, let's see if Blank wants a Nano model or not and hope Blank finds someone else." Nano continues in the document saying, "The constant obsession with VTuber 1 and claiming that she's asking for it by causing this unspoken competition which is coming from absolutely no other source than Cinder herself." So, Cinder was convinced this VTuber was competing with her directly and wanted to steal her thunder. It's censored in this document, but we'll later find out who this is because she also made her own document. Yeah, we're going to be here for a while. Nano's document ends with around three or four screenshots showing this absolute obsession with this Vtuber and the unhinged thought process that Redacted and Cinder had towards them. This is Redacted saying, "I think it's more like wanting her to recognize Cinder even though it literally doesn't matter. I feel like there's this unspoken competition between them, like they need to oneup each other because Blank can't get along. But I also understand her point of view. The new YouTuber who people say looks, sounds, and acts like you becomes just as successful as you in a year. If she did recognize Cinder as an equal or a friend, then it would be like she's endorsing her copy or like I've seen some people say her replacement. They share a lot of the same audience, too. Like, at the end of the day, it isn't just about how much we make compared to her. We just want her to recognize, hey, Cinder is a big VTuber, too. She got there on her own merits, just like you did. Get along. And the marketing potential and money they could make if they teamed up. I just know anything we do, she's watching and will take from or try to outdo. Oh my god. You know the spinning figure we have on stream? Blank's figure was announced on Wednesday. No spinning figure. Cinder debut Saturday. Everyone hears about it. Figure announced. Spinning figure on screen with exclamation mark figure right next to it. Blank streams yesterday. First stream since Cinder debut. Guess what? Spinning figure with exclamation mark figure next to it. Now, this might seem confusing, but we were just talking about VTuber 1. But there was another VTuber that both Cinder and Redacted were obsessed with. A Cberous pup VTuber. Here we have Redacted talking about her mid-con conversation, accusing her of copying Cinder every chance she got, saying, "The like a month later unfollow her on Twitter and started taking her ideas, Cinder's ideas like the flames. And now she's basically rebranded to more of a fire serbur, using fire emojis all the time, shaking my head. Never did that before." It's funny because she used to call herself a hellhound, but stopped when Cinder grew past her and now uses Cberus or Cerber pup or whatever her lore says she is. I don't know. Nano says the unfollow is weird. And then Redacted says, "Yeah." So, it's like there was also unprovoked tweets from her like, "I didn't copy anyone else for my design. My design is all me. This is who I am." Like, huh? Who are you saying that to? Then he continues and says, "Oh, lol. On random Cinder clips on YouTube, there was one dedicated blank fan or someone she knew, I don't know, that would comment on these clips, saying like, when are you going to clip blank only on Cinder clips?" Nano ends this document by saying, "I'd like to highlight the irony of expecting to be entitled to recognition for her own efforts and size when her own active efforts are tied to sabotaging this very same VTuber." Also, feeling entitled and insisting to be recognized by someone else is odd. Thanks for taking the time to read through everything. I hope everything makes sense and everyone who has been hurt, manipulated, or sabotaged by her will find closure. So, look, this whole idea of, "Oh my god, this VTuber's copying me or whatever, this isn't the first time we see it in the VTuber space. It happens more often than anyone would like to. But Cinder as well as Redacted were taking it to a whole other level. They weren't just concerned by someone copying them. They were obsessed and they were dragging their artist who has been loyal to them into this mess as well. It was a very, very bad look. Some people were analyzing some of the DMs between Cinder and Nano. And this part right here where she says, "Being one of your very first model babies was so amazing. I was happy to be able to find someone to help you with live 2D cutting to improve your skills. And I think that's a big part why everyone loved the 1.0 model." And then started asking you for them made people think like, "Wait, what are you saying here? Are you saying your skill is thanks to me because I found someone that can help your life 2D cutting and the reason everyone even started to look for you is because they loved my model first? It seemed like Cinder believed Nanoly owed her for the success, that she would be a nobody if it wasn't for Cinder. What a very weird attitude to have. Additionally, here's a screenshot of all the models that Nanoly worked on. Oh my god, I have to censor that, dude. Her boobs are literally out of the outfit. What? Anyway, as you can see, they don't look the same at all. They're all very special and all have their unique traits. This idea that the more models she worked on would devalue her work as an artist was a ridiculous claim to make. And everyone can see that now. But speaking of everyone, what about her close friends that she backstabbed so shamelessly? What was their reaction? Well, Cottontail was one of the people mentioned in that document that both Cinder and her manager were trying to keep away from Nano even though they were friends. In which Redacted says, "You don't work with Bao, Cotton, or Blank at all." Again, she tweeted this saying, "This made my stomach drop to read. It makes me very sad to have things come out like this. Sending Nano and Bao so much love." I mean, I can't even imagine thinking that someone is my friend and they're out there in DMs getting their manager to gatekeep an artist from me because they think I'm a threat to them. But of course, Cotton Tail was far from being the only one affected here. 5 minutes after Nano released her document, Bao quote tweeted and said, "I was very hurt by someone I thought was a friend with her own Google document." Now look, many friends of Cinder were involved in this, but Bao was more involved than most because this didn't just concern Nano. It also concerned editors as well as animators. So here's what Bao had to say in her document, saying, "Hello, this is Bao. I will only speak to what Nanoly has decided to share with the public and the messages that directly mention be my name. I would like to kindly ask everyone to refrain from turning this into a witch hunt and remember that we are still humans at the end of the day. Before I start, I want to point out why I'm addressing both Cindra and Redacted despite the messages being largely from redacted." Many times throughout the messages, the words we, we're, our occur numerous times. As someone who was close to and worked with Cinder for years, I have firsthand experience on how Cinder and Red collaborate and the extent to which Red operates as her primary point of contact in her professional and personal projects. It is that experience that leads me to believe that all requests and messages sent by Red were both known about and approved of by Cinder. In March 2024, I announced that one of my subathon goals was a live 2D model. This right here is the tweet of her announcement. if she reaches 10,000 subs, she's going to commission a new sexy mommy life 2D model. That's what she's referring to. She then continues, "Nanoly was going to be the live 2D illustrator." After she finished both the design and base model sketch, there was suddenly back and forth on whether or not she had the physical and mental capacity to continue my model. I was very sad as I had not only teased the screenshot of the model sketch on Twitter, but I had grown very attached to the design and showed it to all my friends in a private group chat that Cinder was a part of. I shared how devastated I was and she did not comment or say anything despite others in the group chat comforting and reassuring me. I now realized that the reason for her silence was because Cinder and Redacted were deliberately sabotaging ongoing commissions and blocking VTubers such as myself from having access to art from Nanolist. She then shows us the same screenshots that were in Nano's document in which we now know that Bao Cotton as well as other VTubers were directly targeted by both Redacted and Cinder. Bao then continues in her document and says, "Nanolith asks Redacted on why he is encouraging her to not finish my model." Redacted then lists my name amongst various VTubers as well as the vendetta Cinder and Redacted harbor against each. She then lists all these reasons that they were targeting Bao. The first one being Bao has been getting on our nerves for a while. The second, she hijacked our YouTube editor. The third constantly picking up artists that we work with. The fourth, now she's barking up the tree of one of our live 2D animators. And the fifth has a way of guilt- tripping others to get her way. This is what redacted lists as reasons why Nanalyst should cancel her ongoing life to decommission with me all the while continuing to collaborate with me and pretending to be my friend. This is not what friends do. Friends do not sabotage other friends out of business opportunities. Friends do not spread lies to fuel selfish narratives. Friends do not use the private information they get from the privilege of being close friends just to use it to manipulate others. If stepping on your friends and abusing your power and connections is how you get to the top, then I hope you realize no one will be left when you get there. She then links another screenshot we saw in Nano's document of redacted asking, "Did you cancel the models?" And then says, "More screenshots of them urging Nanoly to cancel the ongoing life to decommission with me, even mentioning how excited I was about it when I showed them the design during Cinder and Ice's concert at WeepCon in 2024." That is so scummy. Again, this is a screenshot that we saw in Nano's document. So then Bao mentions something that happened in this conversation between Nano and Redacted. In which redacted was urging her to cancel the model with Bao and Nano saying I can give her the design for free as an apology gift. Redacted then said I wouldn't offer it for free maybe half price if she starts [ __ ] Lol. And Bao quotes that sentence of redacted and says I don't know what I have ever done to either Redacted or Cinder to deserve this level of vitriol towards me. I don't remember having any issue or any problem that couldn't have been solved by talking. So yeah, this is really really screwed up obviously. I mean, anyone can tell, right? It's like Bao murdered one of their family members and got away with it. Like, what did she do, man? Anyone who's ever worked with her has said nothing but good things about her. Out of all her friends, she decided to target the person who is probably the nicest out of all of them. Anyway, Bao continues saying, "Regarding the messages where Cindra and Redacted openly accuse me of stealing their YouTube editor, Boss Rush music video animator, as well as any artist they have worked with, she attaches an image that shows an email between her and Kaiser, their YouTube editor, in which she says, "Hi, Kaiser. Nice to meet you. I was just watching your stream highlight for me and Cinder's collab and I really loved your editing style and humor. I was curious if I could request a video edit from you every now and then if you have any availability. My username is Bow on Discord if you want to chitchat more there. Thanks again. And Kaiser says, "Hi Bao, I'd love to edit a video for you. I just sent a friend request on Discord." Bao continues in the document saying, "She hijacked our YouTube editor." Their YouTube editor, Kaiser, is a mutual YouTube channel editor for myself and Cinder. My channel manager, June, and I asked Kaiser for one stream highlight per month as we are aware of his extensive position as Cinder's channel manager. I made a point to note this in my inquiry email to him in 2023. She then shows a screenshot of a call that lasted 5 hours and says, "On March 20th, I started a group Discord call that lasted 5 hours to hang out with my editors. In this group call, Kaiser shared with us that he was afraid to ask Cinder for a raise because he initially turned down an exclusivity deal. As a friend to both Cinder and Kaiser, I encouraged him to take the deal and reassured him that it would not change our friendship, as I would never want someone I care about to miss an opportunity, even if it meant I would lose him as an editor. the other editors who were in the call can corroborate this. I'm sharing this context because there are no words to describe the hurt and betrayal I feel now knowing that on the other side of this conversation, Synra and Redacted were actively portraying me as a thief at a detriment to their business. I've only ever supported them and their activities and never once thought that I had somehow gotten on their nerves. She then quotes what Redacted said in the DMs with Nano, a sentence that said, "Bao had original songs last year that had music videos by her editor and the songs flopped." Bao then says, "I'm in shock and disbelief that this is the narrative they decided I deserved, saying that I harbored an invisible jealousy because my songs flopped made me feel sick to my stomach. In late 2024, I was dealing with debilitating TMJ pain that resulted in me having to drain fluid from my jaw joint to open my mouth properly. They both knew this. I have always wanted my friends to succeed alongside me, and I don't know how they could say these things while simultaneously weaponizing my most vulnerable moments against me." I mean, at this point, no comment, right? Like, no comment. This is disgusting. For years, they were trying to backstab her as hard as they could. She had no idea. She thought they were friends. So, this was her clearing up the whole idea that she stole their editor. She did nothing of the sort. But then there was the topic of her animator. So, here she quotes the sentence that Redacted had told Nanoly, which is, "We're 99% sure she told him, Sakurmore, her animator, not to do any more with us." Referring to the Boss Rush music videos. And these screenshots were in Nano's initial document. Bao says in these messages, Cinder and Redacted are referring to my animator Sackmore, whom I have been working with since 2023. She proves this by showing DMs between them in 2023. Bao saying, "Hi, I'm going to bed, but give me your rates and turn around time for a video like the Bow Experience one. Me and my editors loved it." And Sack said, "Yo, all good." Then she continues, "In 2024, Sack asked me if he could go completely exclusive for me and work for me in-house with no credit in order for him to be able to quietly work on his personal projects and brand without having VTubers ask him for more commission work. I was happy to accept. I want to reiterate that this was Sach's decision and no one else's. Then she says, "Here is proof of Sack mentioning his wishes to be my in-house animator directly to my channel manager, June, back in December 2024, refuting Redacted's claims that I locked him up due to Boss Rush's success." These DMs between Sack and June, her channel editor, have Sack asking, "Yo, is it fine if going forward I don't be credited in video descriptions?" To which June says, "Okay." Sack then says, "Thank you. I'd rather just be more an in-house type of thing for Bao after this blank thing is done. It's the last commission I ever do for anyone besides Bao and want to make a name for myself through my own content and not really my work for others next year. So again, Bao showed up with a proof and she's showing us how delusional Redacted and Cinder were. Bao then ends this by asking why aren't you solving this privately? And then replies, "If you look at the timeline of events from Nano's document, some of those messages date back years. I found out about this less than 48 hours ago, and they did not give me common courtesy of talking to me privately about this over those years. My thoughts, feelings, my most vulnerable, darkest moments that I shared in confidence with people I thought would be by my side years and years from now may have been used as information to ruin my chances to have the same YouTuber model as someone I thought was my friend. And I don't know how I can ever be the same after this. I would like to ask the community to refrain from spreading any harmful speculation. Everything shared in this document was done so with the express permission of those who shared it with me. I made this document with the intent to refute the claims made about me in the screenshots. Thank you for taking the time to read this. Yeah, what a roller coaster, right? And I just feel very bad for everyone involved in this, of course, except Cinder and Redacted because this is a horror story. Imagine opening up to someone thinking they're your friend, always thinking about what's best for them and not coming in their way. And then it turns out that not just recently, for years, ever since you knew them, they've only had negative things to say about you privately. That is wild. And that of course will traumatize a person. It's crazy. The VTuber Sain compiled all the different collabs and things that both Bao and Cinder worked on to really show how much of a terrible person she was talking like this behind her back. The song used in the video is a song from Cinder, I'm pretty sure. So, I'm going to mute that just in case she wants to copyright me. Here you go. Look at this. They collabed so many different times and met up IRL so many times, too. Like, look at this tweet from Bao. Love you, Cinder. The fact that this is your first shot at anything musically is incredible, and I can't wait to see where you go from here. That's my girl. Like, this is insane. The people who were mentioned in Bao's document made sure to confirm publicly that what she was saying was true. Her channel manager, June, quote tweeted the document Bao posted and said, "Hello, I'm Bao's channel manager, and yes, I was there in the call with Kaiser, Bao, and Sack." And Bao encouraged Kaiser to take the raise. It was definitely something she thought would be best for him. Bao supported any opportunity or anything that Kaiser would choose to go. Sack, who is her animator, also quote tweeted the document Bao posted and said, "Feel free to read if you want. Go show love and support to both Nano and Bao, though." and linked a Google document that recounted his experiences in this entire situation. So Sax starts this document off with this is going to be very unorganized, but I'll try and keep this brief since I don't really think that they read specifically deserve any more of my attention after hearing what they have said about me and also how working with them was. So he specifies again that he wanted to go anonymous and in-house not because Bao forced him to but because he wanted to wanted to focus on his own channel while not worrying about having to be commissioned by other people. Then he addresses what Redacted told Nanoliss about him where he says her editor met us at TwitchCon and was saying that he'd love to work with us practically jumping through hoops to get something planned. Sax says when me and Cinder initially discussed working on a music video project at TwitchCon, everything was fine and friendly. However, the part that is stated as practically jumped through hoops is well a bit of an overstatement to say the least since they had asked me a significant amount of times trying to get me to work with them after I told them no multiple times and I only said yes because they offered double pay. So in this DM you can see in September redacted reaching out to Sack asking you wouldn't happen to be available for a music video in a week or two would you? And Sack saying no I'm completely full every day this month and earliest I could do is November 9th. Sack really tried to make it work but couldn't find any slots in his schedule. Redacted would continue asking questions how long does it take you to make a music video? What do you need? And even with Sach saying multiple times, I really can't. I'd love to, but I just can't. He says things like okay thanks no sack. You're missing out on a good one. like, bro, he stated he wants to but just can't. Redacted then keeps messaging Sack, talking to him about project specifics, asking him how long things would take him and seeing when he's free. And then on the 12th of November, 2024, Redacted messages Sack saying, "Are you available? Sorry for getting back to you so late." Sax says, "All good. I'm still 100% down to do it. I would be able to start like the first or second week of December for like mid December release. Is that okay?" And Redacted says, "We were hoping end of November release." To which Sack says, "Oh yeah, that would be impossible for me." Sack then specifies, "Like I said, I'm still super down to do it and really hope to be able to work with Cinder on the video, but my schedule is always super packed/f fully planned weeks and months ahead without much wiggle room. So just let me know what y'all would like to do or feeling." And then Redacted says, "What if we pay you double?" Sack then says, "Blank and I'll cook." To which Redacted says, "You can send the invoice to blank whenever. We'll get it paid ASAP." Sack then continues in the document saying, "Also, I'm not sure what they're on about with Bao not knowing about me working with them since I asked Bao with Cinder and Red standing right next to me at TwitchCon if it was fine since I had agreed to do all the Halloween album but would probably miss one of the songs and she had no problems with it at all." So, even though this would sacrifice the music video for one of Bao's songs in her album, she still said yes, please go ahead. I mean, Cinder is her friend as far as she knew, right? Then Sack goes on to detail his work experience with Cinder and Redacted, saying, "Also, the stream was pushed back for the reason of the video wasn't done yet. Song was going up at 2 p.m. if I remember. However, this part really got under my skin due to the fact that it was just straight up not true, and if something goes wrong in the video production line, no matter who's at fault, the blame will always fall to the editor/animator pretty much every time. I'm still not sure why stream was pushed back. So, it felt as if I was getting passive aggressively blamed publicly on stream in front of thousands for the lateness really upset me since the video was not late, even under a very tight deadline where I did not even receive all the artwork until the 18th, the first full master until the 19th and was then asked to also make a teaser version as well as an ad for the end of the video for their merch on the 21st, which I was not informed of at all prior to planning. I also had skipped going home for Thanksgiving after having a family member pass to get this video done and rushed the hell out of it. entire video was done from scratch in a little under two weeks since there were quite a few both visual and audio assets I did not have at the time that even remotely resembled what the final product will sound like. So I felt like this was an attack on my work ethic which is something I take quite a lot of pride in. I did not receive the merch assets until the 27th as well either. Even with revisions in all the extra trailers the video was completed and delivered on time with enough time for YouTube to process the 4K version. There's probably more that I should clarify since I'm aware this is unbelievably poorly organized, but I'm very tired and don't feel like giving any more energy to these people. If there's anybody who has questions for me, just send me a DM. So, this clears up more things that were happening behind the scenes between Sack and Cinder as well as Redacted. Shows us that Bao was nothing more than an amazing friend. And also, even though Cinder and Redacted fought so hard to get Sack over, paying him double his rate, they were terrible clients who weren't prepared, didn't know what they wanted, and still managed to make Sack look bad in front of their audience. Even though he missed Thanksgiving just to get the video done on time. It's overall a terrible situation. With all these documents releasing, pressure was mounting very hard on Cinder with people demanding answers. So many looked up to her and loved her content purely because of how warm and gentle and kind of a person she portrayed herself on streams. But now people were realizing this was nothing more than an illusion. Hours later, Cindra finally tweeted something saying, "Effective immediately. Redacted will no longer be managing or overseeing my VTuber activities. he no longer represents me as a creator, my brand, or my intentions. I'm sorry everyone. I will make a larger response when I'm able. So, I'm sure you wouldn't be surprised when I tell you that this response left a lot to be desired. But then another VTuber pointed out something very interesting. Vampas replied to that tweet and said, "I remember playing Phasmophobia with you and hearing red chat away next to you before you first debuted it like 4 years ago. You told me he was your boyfriend. Then before we met for TwitchCon, you switched up and said, just so you know, my manager is coming with me on this trip." as if I didn't know who he was. It's even ickier to read this tweet knowing he is your significant other and that you're probably going to try and avoid taking responsibility for hurting people who trusted you as friends by nuking the red side of this duo. So, as everyone could have guessed, Redacted is her significant other. He's her boyfriend and he lives with her. She was fully aware of what he was doing and approved of it. And yet right now she was throwing him under the bus to try and save her career when everyone knows this is nothing more than a desperate attempt to save your skin without facing any responsibility. It was a very lackluster response to an apocalyptic expose on who she is behind the scenes. And speaking of who she was behind the scenes, someone else came out with a document by the name of Rain on a topic that no one could have ever expected saying, "Fuck it. My experience with Tashi/Sinder content warning cheating. Dude, this just keeps getting worse. Let's look at this document. So, this goes back way before Cinder was even a thing. This is about Tashi, her previous persona. Things were getting so spicy, my tongue isn't working anymore. The document starts off with, "Hello, thank you for taking the time to read this document. The events described in it happened about four to 5 years ago before the first Cinder debut. I understand there will be accusations of me cloud chasing by revealing them. However, I wanted to corroborate Nanolys's assertion that she is not who she appears to be on the surface and confirm that no matter how much damage control she does, she's just as responsible as Redacted. The first section is titled the beginning. Cinder and I met while she was still running her Tashi.mpp3 YouTube channel, which is why all the following screenshots will show her as Tashi rather than Cinder, and that will come up later. At the time, she was only starting her account, and I already had my own ASMR RP channel with 8K subscribers. And as a bigger channel than her, she couldn't wait to work with someone as talented as me. This message dates back to May 2020 with Tashi saying, "You'll get there. It's still hard for me to believe that someone so talented likes my voice enough to want to work together." Rain continues and says, "We never ended up actually making any content together, but that didn't stop us from talking pretty much every day at the time. And eventually, she found a new way to make me useful." The next section's titled, "Oh dear." Pretty much immediately, she was flirting with me despite, as you can see here, having a boyfriend and both of us knowing she had a boyfriend, including regularly talking [ __ ] about him to me while telling me how great it would be if I were to replace him. What the hell? He continues, "I understand that I'm no angel in this myself, but hey, at least I can be honest about it." Oh my god. Anyway, here are the DMs. It starts off with Rain saying, "Besides, you said it's hard when your boyfriend is far, far away. I'm not your boyfriend, am I?" To which Tashi says, "No, but how nice that would be. your perfect boyfriend material heart. Uh, okay. Rain then continues, "Oh ho, so you want to go at it behind his back? How sneaky." And then she says, "Hi, honey. I've been talking to this guy about how badly I want him to [ __ ] me since he wanted to buy a flashlight instead of giving me any attention when I'm needy." What? Right. That says, "Fucking oof, dude. Literally, why would you even need a flashlight when you have a girlfriend?" And then Tashi/ Cinder replies with, "He sent me a screenshot a couple weeks ago telling me he was getting one and had the nerve to use it in front of me to show me how great it was. Wow, yeah, it must be great." Rain then says, "Yo, what the [ __ ] That's like me inviting you to a chatterbait room so you can watch me [ __ ] someone else in all the ways I said I want to you." To which he replies with, "Isn't that great?" Rain then says, "I'm very slowly not feeling as bad for him about all this." Cuz it did honestly leave a bit of a bad taste in my mouth that all this was happening while you were taken. But then, "Yeah, that's a bit uh did you tell him that was [ __ ] up and hurtful to you?" She then replies with, "He asked me if I was okay with it, and after I explained how I felt, he told me it was too late to do anything about it because it shipped and he kept it." Rain then says, "I mean, far be it for me to give you advice. It's your relationship, and the only ones who can decide what is and isn't okay is you two, but that just sounds really sketchy to me. And why did he ask if you're okay with it after he bought it?" Well, all I'm going to say on this is two wrongs don't make a right. As much as I enjoy the second thing, it's really not right. If you still want to be with him, I would either try to reconcile with him and get what you need out of the relationship and step back from me a bit or maybe consider taking a break. And I know that last part sounds [ __ ] coming from me, but I swear on my life I'm not being scummy about it. That's really my opinion. She then replies, "I've just been really stressed about everything and talking to you makes me feel so much better. I don't want to lose what we have, but I'm such an awful person. I don't deserve it anyway." Rain then says, "I don't believe you're an awful person. I believe that you're stressed, you're emotional, and you're looking for something to make it better, which happened to be me when he wasn't helping. Listen, take a break from what we have just for a little bit and see if you can get something out of him first. You can't really have both of us. Plus, it wouldn't be very fulfilling for me to just be the other guy in this scenario and not get the full relationship experience myself. You can do it, sweetie. I believe you can. Truly. She then says, "I'm so sorry. I don't know what I'd do without you." To which she says, "I'm not saying to stop talking to me completely. I'll still be right here to support you. Whichever decision you end up making." And then she says, "I love you so much. I don't know how to thank you." Bro, this is so weird. This is so weird, man. Look, I'm convinced this is some weird like role-play fantasy she has. She knew that Rain felt really weird about this knowing that she had a boyfriend, so she was making up this story to make him feel less guilty about cheating. That's just my theory, right? But I just find her story so unbelievable that it just can't be true. Rain then continues in the document saying, "Despite what was evidently nothing serious for her and just a means of keeping herself occupied, she felt the need to keep stringing me along with proclamations of real love, which again I was silly to have believed in the first place, but still." And it's a screenshot of her saying, "Regardless, I'm always going to love you." He then continues in the document for obvious reasons. I won't share any of the explicit texting, not just because of the NSFW nature of it, but also I just don't think it helps. However, note that all this went on for several months and included more than just text as both the date and the contents of the following screenshots prove this was in September of 2020, so months since the last DMs we saw. And it features Rain saying, "I mean, it looked like something was going down there either way." And then Tashi replies with, "It's called finger dear. Oh my god." The document then continues, "One reason I felt it important to share these details in particular is because I never found out if Red got told about what happened, especially not in full lucidity. The primary reason I've held on to all this for so long was an itching feeling that Redacted never fully knew and it always felt like it would be unnecessary drama. So, I left it alone. But now seems as good a time as any. Redacted, if you're reading this, I'm sorry for all that happened back then. I really am. But given the actions you two have taken together regarding other VTubers, I still think you're perfect for each other regardless. The last section of this document is the end. After Cinder got done using me for fleeting sexual gratification, our conversation slowed down. Exacerbated by the Cinder character coming into fruition and finding immediate success, I had stopped making content for a decent length of time by then. And thus, she no longer felt she could ladder climb from me. Here we can see this was a conversation mid2021 with Tshi saying, "Hey, hey, what was your exam for? I haven't been on this Discord account super often, so I missed a bit." And Rain said she made a new group chat without me. I kid, but yeah, they were the entrance exams for the uni college. Tashi said, "Nice. Congrats on passing them. I've just been on the VTuber side of things, working with commissions and whatnot. And then Rain said, "What?" And Cinder doesn't want to be my friend. Only Tashi does. To which she replied with, "It's just easier not having multiple ongoing conversations." Rain continues in the document saying, "Until eventually she stopped using that account altogether and committed fully to Cinder, and I never heard from her again, something I was uncannily aware would happen even back then." These are DMs from around the same time in 2021 with Rain saying, "I'll message you at this time in 2022, and you won't even remember who I am." To which Tashi said, "I'd never forget you." Rain then continues the document and says, "And that's pretty much it. This isn't meant to be a witch hunt. We all make mistakes, including me, as I've shown in the same document. But it felt like a good time to get off my chest things that I've been on it for half a decade now, and to finally get some closure, even though I know how bad I look alongside her. She's an opportunist whenever she can find a way to be. And she does not care what happens to the people she springboards off from. I can only hope she takes this as an opportunity to change and grow as a person. And I'm just going to throw this one in the end because it's kind of funny for me to see in retrospect. Okay, thanks for reading." And it's a message from Tashi in 2020 saying, "Don't forget about me when you become a big popular YouTuber." Uh, you know what? I didn't read this document until I started recording. And yeah, this caught me by surprise. Wow. You know, I wish Rain had shown this a long time ago so people would have known, okay, this person's kind of weird. And maybe Bao and Nana wouldn't have been backstabbed so goddamn hard. But it does leave a bad taste in my mouth in regards to Rain as well. Releasing this information now does seem opportunistic because it seems like it's cool to hate on Cinder. In other words, he was backstabbing her the same exact way she was backstabbing others right now. But speaking of backstabbing, we were slowly but surely uncovering the other people that Cinder had backstabbed because documents kept coming out. Spite another big independent VTuber posted this on Twitter quote tweeting Nanol saying my experience with Cinder and attaching a Google document of her own. This is when we uncover one of the two last missing pieces of the puzzle. There are two more YouTubers that were backstabbed by Cinder that were censored in Nano's original document. So, which one is Spite? Well, let's read the document. It starts off by saying, "I want to start by saying, please do not send any hate to anyone involved in this. I only wish to speak about my experiences and give more clarity on those experiences. First and foremost, my love and admiration goes out to Nanalyst for having the courage to bring this to light. Artists are the backbone of our community, and taking advantage of her goodwilled personality is saddening to see. I want to take the time to address what has been brought to light involving myself and what I've experienced over the years that coincide with these events. In this screenshot, the VTuber that is being talked about is very clearly me. Since the beginning of my VTuber journey, it has been written in my backstory and lore that I'm the daughter of Cerberus and through an unforeseen summoning mishap, the Greek goddess Hikate. As many may know, Cberus is a species of hellhound, and I've always incorporated the number three in my designs to follow the three heads of Cberus in my early design. And when artists were still learning new models/rigging techniques, I had opted for two other wolf heads on my shoulders as puldrons to symbolically represent my two other heads. However, the repeated comments of, "If you're a Cberus, where are your other two heads?" had pushed me to use the broader term hell hound at the time. Fast forward to months to a year into my journey, and I started to receive harassment and berating comments and chat messages on Twitch and YouTube videos comparing me to Cinder and putting me down for being a hellhound. Making the definitive switch to the Cberus label brought me a sense of relief because the last thing I wanted was to be constantly compared or harassed at this point. I didn't want to be associated with her due to all the negativity that was being thrown my way. Then she links one of the screenshots that were included in Nano's document in which redacted claims that Spite unfollowed Cinder on Twitter and this is what she has to say about it. As for the claims of unfollowing her and taking her ideas, I debuted my 2.0 lived model May 14th, 2022. And on that same day, she decided to post her debut announcement for her 1.0 zero life to model. Leading up to this time, I didn't know who Cinder was at all. I had no idea she had fire in her ears or she was another hellhound. The creator space is broad, and I still stumble across creators larger than myself that I had not heard of before. I never once stole her ideas. All I ever want is to try to be unique in my own way. So, these claims that I was following her and then unfollowing and stealing her ideas are absolutely baseless and uncalled for. This is a screenshot that shows that Spite was doing her 2.0 debut on May 3rd, 2022. And 11 days later, Cinder was barely revealing her first model. She had not even done her debut yet. Spite continues in the document saying, "Her posting her debut announcement trailer the same day as my 2.0 debut seemed off." But I shrugged it off as a coincidence because things happened. However, this wasn't the last time something like this had happened. There have been multiple times where I have done something and either the same day or shortly after I was made aware or had discovered later that something similar had been posted, making me feel like I was being watched constantly. I tried my best to believe that it was coincidental and not ill intent on their part. There were many times where I designed a new outfit that I was really excited for, but afterwards, Cinder would release outfits or models with similarities to it. I didn't think much of it at first, because it is normal to have some similarities or shared inspirations with other creators. The VTme community is a huge space, and similarities are normal. I'm not speaking to whether my designs were taken as direct references for hers. I'm addressing the need for the unprovoked tweets mentioned in the screenshots above and showing that I made the statements to make it clear that I was not stealing ideas. How can I copy something that was released slash teased slrevealed after my own? On July 20th, 2022, Maywe live, my model mama, and I worked on a comfy goth girl outfit. I had rips in my shirt, a g-string, shorts, and spiked wrist cuffs. 2 weeks after, Cinder debuted a similar outfit. I included the earliest image that I could find of Cinder with this outfit. I received many negative comments about my design from people assuming that I copied her when I debuted it 2 weeks before hers. I got called off-brand Cinder and just a bunch of horrible things. So, these are DMs with her artist saying, "Sounds great. I'm so happy with it." on July 20th, 2022, showing that she was working on this outfit way before the tweet that Cinder made on September 14th, 2022, asking, "What do you think of my new outfit that looks very similar?" Spite then continues in her document saying, "I discovered this merchandise that she used for OO Market and had to do a double take because of the gray blue skin tone used in the art. Several people thought it was me and the similarities for this speak for themselves, I feel." So, this is the design itself. And yeah, I mean, they do look pretty damn similar, not going to lie. She continues, "On April 29th, 2024, I designed a Greek goddess outfit on stream. I am a Cberous VTuber, so it fits my lore completely. I mentioned that I may or may not get a future Greek goddess outfit because it fits my branding." About 4 months ago, Cinder debuted a Heaven Okami inspired outfit. It was white and gold, resembling a Greek goddess. In the background for debut, she also included Greek columns. At this point, I felt like nothing I could come up with would be even slightly original to me. I'm aware that nothing is completely original, but I still wanted my own identity. So, here's the outfit that she drew on her stream. And then, here is the debut stream with the new outfit that Cinder came up with. She then continues, "On April 20th, 2024, I debuted a new model for my model mama, Ari VT. I got a hoodie with a cute design on top, and I had sidebangs covering my eyes. On April 4th, 2025, so a year later, Cinder debuted a sports hoodie with side banks covering her eyes similar to mine. Is this is this a coincidence or is it truly her trying to copy everything she's doing? I don't know. I'll let you decide. She then continues, "There are some instances that I do not have screenshots of. For example, I remember posting about my first ASMR stream. The day that I was supposed to do set stream, Cinder plugged her ASMR channel. I thought it was a bit suspect, but brushed it off. I don't have any screenshots of the comments and bullying that I received from her community. There were too many that it became too much to keep track of and just started ignoring them because I never wanted to save images of their words that hurt me. I didn't even want to read the harassing comments in the first place. I just wanted to be left alone and be happy in my own space. I received a DM on January 25th, 2023. I will not disclose who the sender was without their consent. The sender expressed to me that they were getting bullied by Cinder and certain members of Cinder's community because she too had fire in her ears. I never responded to the DM because I wanted to stay away from drama as much as possible. Here's what the DM said. Hey, you popped in my feed and can I just say I love your design. I had a rather odd question, I suppose. Have you had any messages from the VTuber Cinder regarding your design? This may seem out of nowhere, but I'm only asking because I had made an original character like a while back, and I was accused by her and others of stealing her design because my dog girl had flames in the ears, and her and her fans claimed that was exclusive to her design. It was this whole big ordeal on Twitter, so I wondered if anything similar had happened to you yet. I would like to clarify. I myself am not saying your design looks like hers. I was scrolling, sorry, totally awesome design. When I saw the flames near/in the ears, I had flashbacks and thought to myself, oh no. So, I guess this is just my curiosity getting the best of me. Spite continues in her document saying, "I'm just very saddened and disappointed in the situation. I had my suspicions about this, but I've never wanted to be a part of drama, so I kept quiet. I've also seen what happens when a creator stands up for themselves and receives major backlash, even if they're in the right, so I've never vocalized my concerns. I've always designed my own models. I've gotten inspiration from CBUS with the chains and spikes, Disney's Hades, and because I call myself goth girlfriend, I was inspired by Sam and Ember from Danny Phantom, plus many other of our goth crushes that we've had growing up. I just focused on myself and my friends. Meanwhile, I had eyes on me the whole time. Knowing that I was being watched and talked poorly about really hurts, especially when they never attempted to interact with me. I did my best to go through and find what I could and get appropriate screenshots. It's crazy because I didn't know who Cinder was until she debuted her live 2D. I just wanted to exist peacefully as a VTuber and spend my time dramaree. I woke up this morning in shock. It's terrifying and hurtful to know that someone could attempt to blacklist me when I've never even spoken to them. I hope going forward that no one else has to experience anything like this. Thank you guys for being supportive towards me. I love this community so much. Please go and give love and support to all those who have unfortunately been involved in the situation. Please support Nanoly who was very brave enough to speak up and the VTubers who were affected. Please support my first model mama, the wonderful Maui live and also my most recent model mama, the wholesome rev. Thank you for taking the time to read this. So, as I said in the beginning of this document, this was one of the last two remaining pieces of the puzzle. Who was this Cberus that they were so obsessed with? A VTuber they never even bothered interacting with who had this design even before Cinder. And yet they were completely and utterly obsessed with her in such a weird and unhealthy way. Honestly, Spite should get a restraining order. Like, let's be real here. But here's the thing. What about the last missing piece of the puzzle? The one who was called VTuber 1 in Nano's document. Well, this is one of the most screwed up cases of this entire incident. And we're about to find out why. So, you no doubt remember the screenshot in which Redacted was trying to blacklist Bao Cotton and a third VTuber from ever being able to commission Nano again. Well, we now know that this third VTuber is none other than Silverville, yet another very big independent VTuber. Many hours after the initial statement from Nano, she quote tweeted Nano's tweet and said, "My statement on Cinder and Redacted linking yet another Google doc. It starts off with a section titled introduction. I shouldn't have to say this, but me putting out this statement is not a call for or an excuse for anyone to turn the situation into a witch hunt. My intention for making a statement is strictly to give myself closure from the events of the past years and clarify how I have been personally affected. I debated if I wanted to even say anything after being asked if I wanted my name in the original document censored as the situation is much bigger than just my personal experience. However, after finding out how wide and extensive the transgressions were, I feel the need to give clarity to my situation and how I was personally affected. I want to note as others have that though a majority of the messages are from redacted who is Cinder's manager, I find it impossible that he acted solely on his own intentions without Cinder's knowledge or consent given the extent to which he has represented her publicly and professionally. The next section is titled Nano and Vtuber 1 in which we see many messages that were already included in Nano's document where Redacted was trying to convince Nano to go exclusive and not work with specific VTubers. As you can see, this is the message where he says you don't work with bow, cotton, or silver at all again, models or art. And then Nanolith says, "hm, is there any way to add a little bit more since silver still asks for art every now and then?" To which Redacted says, "We could do it like when Silver asks for art, you tell her no and then tell us to buy another art piece, like so you still get a job from it." So they wanted to blacklist Silver so hard that if Silver were to ask for any commissions, Redacted and Cinder were willing to pay money to Nano so that she doesn't take the job. We also get more clarity, right? The model that Redacted was talking about was Silver's model. The DMs between Nano and Cinder also revealed to us much more now that Silver's name has been uncensored. Here we can see Nano saying, "Just wanted to let you know I still love working with you in Red, but I'll understand if things don't work out because of Silver. I just love my clients, that's all." That was in February 2025, barely two months ago. So, this person that Cinder was saying, I just get compared to her a lot, even still today, was Silver. And Silver had no idea this was happening behind her back. Silver then continues in her document saying, "I am VTuber 1 in the screenshots provided by Nano in her document. I've been a friend and client of Nano for years, and seeing how she was manipulated and abused by Cinder and Red makes me livid. She's an absolute sweetheart and just wants her clients to be happy. It breaks my heart to see how she was treated like a tool and a resource to be used for growth rather than a talented living person and gaslit into somehow believing that how she was being treated was okay. I am so proud of Nano for having the courage to come forward to the affected people with all of this and to let everyone know how they were being unknowingly sabotaged. I've spoken to her privately and want to be clear that I have no ill will or hard feelings towards Nano for her involvement in this. I urge people reading this to try and understand the emotional manipulation on display and empathize with her situation. There is a lot I could say about how disgusting I find their behavior towards other creators in general, but I want to focus on my personal experiences. The next section gets real and it's titled Cinder and I. And this is where she goes into the very weird relationship she had with Cinder and really revealed the depth of the backstabbing. She starts off by saying, "Discovering that all of this was going on behind the scenes has been gut-wrenching. I didn't know Cinder. We weren't friends and we have barely talked. Even writing this, I do not understand what I could have possibly done to warrant the level of malice and cruelty shown. In our private interactions, I was as cordial as possible, but I just wasn't interested in associating with her professionally or being her friend. From the few uncomfortable interactions I did have with her, I had gotten the vibe that her primary goal was to climb the social and content ladder and grow her brand. I am fully aware how common that attitude is, and that that's just how you grow in this sphere. But I personally don't have the emotional fortitude or bandwidth to have friendships for the express purpose of growth. For the record, I think it's fine to have that view and approach to content creation, but I also reserve the right to simply not vibe with someone. I would much rather not associate with someone at all than pretend to be their friend for the purposes of growing my brand. The only time I had actually talked to her directly was during my meet and greet at TwitchCon 2023. I had just finished my meet and greet and as I was wrapping up, she walked directly to the screen to meet me and had someone else take a picture of us together. I was not informed of this picture or asked permission for it and only knew about it once I saw it on Twitter later on. And as you can see, this is a tweet from Cinder back in October 20th, 2023 with her saying, "Stop by to say hi after my meet, Wolf Girls." Really making it seem like her and Silver were friends and knew each other when that wasn't the case at all. Silver then continues saying, "After the meet and greet, she contacted my manager at Mythic to ask me to collab with her. I told them I would rather not collab, but accepted her friend request on Discord after turning her down. In private DMs, she reached out and asked me to do merch or another various form of collab to be monetized, to which I again declined. I will always prioritize my mental health and peace over any potential profit that would make me feel used transactionally and put me out of my comfort zone. So these are the DMs with her mythic manager saying also Cinder really loved meeting you and wanted to collab. So I told her I'd let you know and I could throw you guys in a group chat if you were interested. To which Silvervvil said hello I appreciate the sentiment but I prefer to not do collabs. Her manager said, "No worries. Hope you're having a good weekend." To which she said, "A thanks. I'm trying to just busy on lots of IRL stuff coming up. Lol. Sorry for not being interested in collabs. I just like to do my own thing but I'm always open to messages. Lol. I hope you had fun at the con and everything went okay. So, these are the brief DMs she had with Cinder. Silver starts off the conversation after accepting a friend request saying, "Hi." Cinder then replies with, "Hi, Silver. Sorry for getting back to you late. I've been super sick from TwitchCon. I guess a lot of us got sick after the last couple parties. I hope you had a good time at your meet and greet. It was nice to see you there." But yeah, no worries if you don't prefer to stream together. My manager suggested something more like sponsorships, merch, music, or some kind of other project together that maybe Mythic could help with if needed. I'd love to chat more either way. to which Silver replied with, "No worries. It's been super hectic and busy for everyone. L I hope you're feeling better. I'm really flattered by the persistence, but I'm just not interested in transactional relationships with anyone. I hope you can understand." So then we go back to Redacted's DMs about Silver, and we realize just how unhinged both he and Cinder were, accusing Silver of copying Cinder with that spinning figure and saying things like, "Oh, we just want Silver to recognize Cinder because she's a big VTuber." And typing in all caps and the marketing potential and money they could make if they teamed up. adding, "I feel like there's this unspoken competition between them, like they need to one up each other because Silver can't get along." Bro, she literally said in the DM, "She's just not interested in transactional relationships, and she was as nice as possible." I've already said this multiple times in this video, but man, this is so weird. Silver then continues in her document, saying, "I had a new life 2D models in the works for my birthday with Nano, which was eventually cancelled. I was devastated as Nano was the one who originally asked if she could do this model because she was excited to make it with all the new things she had learned and my birthday was special at the time. The reason given was health and stress reasons which made sense given how much was on Nano's plate and despite my disappointment expressed my support for her prioritizing her health. I am now aware that the actual reason for her declining to work with me on my birthday model was external pressure from her dacted and cinder. Words cannot describe how heartbroken I was and am. She then attaches a screenshot with her and Nano in DMs with Nano saying, "Silver, I have to cancel the model commission. I'm sorry. My manager told me I have to cancel the most commissions possible for health reasons. I've been working too hard and it's getting into me. I really apologize for this inconvenience." Silver replies with, "I was looking forward to it so much. I love your art so much and I've been so excited for a new model from you. I understand though. You have to prioritize your health and taking care of yourself. I hope your health improves and you feel better. Make sure to get lots of rest and relaxation. Do you know if you'll be able to do it next year at all? Don't feel pressured or anything. Just asking. Nana replies with, "I'm sorry. It hurts me a lot, too. I just wish I could work on everything I could, but I believe I can still go for your model sometime next year." Yeah. Silver then says, "That's okay. I know you have a ton on your plate and can't imagine how stressful it must be. Do you think you can still do Gamer Sub's tub art?" And Nano says, "Oh, yeah. Illustrations are okay." And of course, they were only okay in the eyes of Redacted and Cinder, who were manipulating the hell out of her. And here, Silver attaches two images that we already saw in Nano's document. And here we can see Redacted was saying, "You didn't tell Silver you canceled because of Cinder, did you?" What's even crazier here is that this message was completely uncensored, too. In which Redacted said, "Well, let's see if Giri wants a nano model or not and hope Silver finds someone else." So, this is yet another content creator that was added to this mess that we weren't even aware of. Silver continues, "I didn't think much of it at the time, but Cinder messaged me on Discord right before my model was cancelled. She celebrated that we shared art despite the fact that at the same time she and redacted were actively working to take the potential for more away. Here you can see a private message from Cinder to Silver saying, "Hey Silver, I just got your gamer sub stuff in the mail and it looks amazing. It's so cute that we both have Nano's art on our merch since she's both our model mama. This is unhinged psychopathic behavior, bro. Does this person even feel shame?" At this point, I don't think so. Silver then ends this document with a section moving forward. Cinder and Redacted have spent years sabotaging me for no understandable reason. I have never done anything to warrant this other than just existing as Silvervvil. They actively sought to get my models and art canceled, and based on the messages I have seen and shared above, seem to have not had any second thoughts about doing so. It's hard to express how crushing a feeling it is to be talked about so cruy and maliciously without my knowing, and to know opportunities and friendships were taken away for what I can only assume is spite and insecurity. There is no end to the amount of anxiety I feel knowing that if these rumors were expressed to Nano, I have to assume they were expressed to others as well. I hope this document and the evidence presented will convince you that I'm not the person that Cinder and Redacta tried to convince people that I am. Thank you for taking the time to read this, and I hope that any and all of the people who have been affected by this can get the closure and peace that they deserve. Yeah, for the first time in this video, I'm speechless. I'm just glad that Cinder focused on Vtubing and not politics, otherwise she would have become the next dictator or something. Make no mistake, this happened because Silvereil had boundaries. This happened because Cinder would not take no for an answer. This happened because she's an unhinged psychopath. With all these different documents and everyone understanding the real nature of who Cinder was, her career was effectively burning to Cinders. Sorry about that. People were very patiently waiting for a more complete statement. So, after losing over 10,000 followers and waiting more than 24 hours, she finally just published it 6 minutes ago. My apology. Let's see if this can actually save her career. Cinder starts off by saying, "There's nothing I can say to make this better, but I will try my best to properly convey my feelings, frustrations, and mistakes. I'd like to explain my point of view and apologize to each party affected. Redacted has been my co-ontent creator since I began making content, managing all aspects of what I do and being a major part of why I'm here. We have also been in a relationship since the start of my endeavors. It's no secret that many YouTubers choose to keep their public and personal life separate and I'm no different. As of yesterday, he is no longer working with me, and I have not extensively discussed any of this with him. Where our personal situation goes from here will be figured out between us privately. I never intended to mention us publicly, but given that the claims are out there, I want everyone to know I'm taking this seriously. After years of working on everything together, his hyper businessoriented outlook warped my view of what it is I should be doing and what should be important to me as I navigate this career path. I have a terrible work life balance as it is, and being around projects and streams all day, every day made me lose sight of the point. It took all of this happening for me to realize this behavior isn't normal or healthy, and it's not an outlook I want to have. This doesn't absolve me of the things I've willingly done wrong and went along with or the way I've treated people who were fully undeserving. Guys, right off the bat, it's not looking good. Okay, this is this is not going to change much if the rest of the apology is looking like this. But anyway, she continues in regards to Nano for the majority of the time working with her. Red was the one almost solely doing the communication about new plans and negotiations through his private DMs. Nano had a project server we were all a part of where the actual art and models were worked on, but the conversations were focused around the work itself. I was not fully aware of the extent of Red's manipulation over Nano's commission decisions, and I should have been more diligent in my oversight. Every time I had been told that Nano had agreed to work on a new commission with me, it had been willingly and with excitement. From my point of view, it was that she genuinely wanted to be working on these things. I wanted to work with Nano as much as I possibly could, making her art the face of my brand. We had come to the conclusion that it would be in my best interest to talk with Nano about making more time for my projects by negotiating with her to cut out other work. This was wrong for us to push on to her and it was wrong to the other creators who wanted the chance of working with her. There was only one specific creator we were responsible for naming and pressuring Nano into reconsidering projects with, not an entire list of her own valition. Nano canled a large portion of her model commissions last September. However, the claim that I was just using her is wrong. Wait, no. This is completely undermining what actually happened. Redacted pressured Nano to not work with Bao, Cotton, Silver, and there was even mention of Giri in there. And let's not forget that more recently, Shyly was included in there, too. So, for Cinder to say Nano cancelled these of her own valition is wild, seeing that they manipulated her into doing so. Anyway, she continues, "I've always treated Nano with respect, and as my friend, I did give her a lot of work, and we did everything we could to accommodate her schedule if she needed more time or a break, and even helped her with her own project payments multiple times. I've invited her on my stream. I've sent her my merch and things she's made for me. And I was always open to talking to her about things outside of our projects in the instances we would message each other. Regarding the exclusivity deal made between them, I had no part in the direct negotiations of their eventual agreement. And I had no knowledge of Bao and Cotton being included in this list. If I had known my friends were included, I would have said something to put a stop to it. I was only aware of it being about one person who I was unfairly pursuing. When Nano had messaged me about this agreement almost a month later, I was under the impression this was only about Silvervvil. I was upset and my initial messages to her were very guilt trippy. But I wasn't going to force Nano to do anything she wasn't okay with and tried reassuring her that I was okay with her decision. Nano had also never come to me as seriously and professionally as her document was looking to address the issue she had with either of us or to terminate our partnership. I had no idea there was even a conversation about Shy Lily recently between Red and Nano until reading her document. It's true. I had confided in Red that lately I hadn't been hearing from Lily like I had in the past and was worried something was wrong. But that's as far as it went and he took it upon himself to try digging for more info. And I was never even aware Nano was ever planning to work on a model for another one of my friends, Giri. I do not condone anything about what Red said about Bao in these DMs either. And him using we and our in this context is abhorenttly incorrect and I believe was done to gain greater credibility behind what he was saying. Yes, Red and I were initially upset when Bao hired my editor and I took it personally when I shouldn't have. I felt as if maybe my content wasn't good enough or like I wasn't paying enough for his work. But I accepted it and was happy for him for getting that bag and supporting one of my friends at the same time. I don't know. At this point, these things are very hard to believe. If she confided in Red how pissed she was, she's admitting that yes, she was pissed and she confided in Red. Red then used this information to add them to the blacklist. But regardless, those feelings are not things you're meant to feel towards friends. Anyway, she continues and she says, "And yes, I was also upset when Sack, the Boss Rush music video editor, had told us that he won't be working on any future project with us and would instead be working exclusively for Bao. But Red got it in his head that it was Bao's fault that it happened and seemingly held a grudge against her for it." He was very passionate about Boss Rush and the potential future projects around it, but he told me about a music video editor as talented as Sack. The future projects wouldn't reach the same height, so he created this head cannon that's laid out in those DMs. I wasn't convinced this was the case, but it's my fault for never speaking with Bao about these things directly to clear things up and letting it spiral to the point it got to. Every comment here about her own music, guilt tripping, and claims about her shared feelings towards her are disgusting. And I honestly don't know why you thought this way about my close friend beyond the resentment over those two things or why it was worth sabotaging her over. Like again, if you had the time to confide how pissed you were about this to Red, you could have messaged Ba to clear things up. Assuming you had no idea what Red did, it's still kind of a problem that you didn't want to clear this up in one DM. She goes on to say, "The it's just business screenshot of my DMs with Nano's document was from November of 2023." And I'll go into my thought process of everything I said here. What Red was trying to explain to Nano is that if everyone has a model by her, then the innate value of her models overall are diminished by there being an oversaturation of that type of model out there. If everyone in the world had a VTuber model done by her, then the value of having her model would be the same as if there were only a handful of them, which he viewed as a negative for me. I understand where he was coming from with this, but in the VTuber space, this isn't something we should have pursued. So, I was never upset seeing new model siblings. In many cases, I was there cheering them on at their debuts and looking to collab with them as sisters when I could. Oh, you mean how you met up with Silver at TwitchCon, cheered that you guys are both Wolf sisters, and then stabbed her in the back? Yeah, that that makes sense. She continues and says, "Me saying it's just business was referring to my acceptance of Nano's business decisions whether she chose to work with me or not. This was not in reference to anyone's model being cancelled. Further explaining to her that it's okay if she chooses not to work with me. I can understand where the next part can sound manipulative, but my intention was to reminisce about the journey we had together up to this point since at this time I wasn't sure if this is where Nano and I would stop working together as frequently as we had been, and I'd have to look for a new model artist." I then encourage her to work on projects he's excited about while I talk with Red to find a project that would work with her schedule. That's definitely looking at things with the perspective of best case scenario. Like I want to believe that's the case, but with how Red was talking, it just makes it very hard to believe. She continues, "When talking about Silver Veil, I need to start at the beginning. Before I was Cinder, I was a pink cherry blossom girl named Tashi that did ASMR content. When the VTuber boom happened in 2020, I knew I wanted to join in. Red and I contacted an artist in October and they were set to start my VTuber design by December. The plan was to take my cherry blossom persona Tashi and make her a pink and white wolf girl VTuber. In November of that same year, Silvervvil revealed her Sakura Wolf redesign. I had heard of Silvervale earlier that year, but I didn't watch her streams at all. We knew we had to pivot before we were stuck with a design that would just be a copy of one of the most popular VTubers at the time. Like I've explained many times on my stream, I knew I wanted to be a wolf girl, so I mixed my love of Okami and metal music into the design and came out with a hellhound. My name was originally going to be Ember, but Red came up with the name Cinder since it was a mix of Sin and Cinder, both hell and fire themed. It was only a coincidence that it ended up being similar to Silver. I was genuinely interested in pursuing a friendship with her and drew fan art myself of us together. See, that would be considered wholesome, but then teeters on the borderline of being a stalker when we know how hard she tried to be friends with her and then ended up backstabbing her. She continues, "On the other hand, Red was in my ear the whole time, saying how great working together would be since, again, he's been the businessoriented side of my brand. Since I started streaming, I have been ruthlessly compared to Silvervvil, being called the discount version of her. I was accused of copying her design, copying her her personality, and even copying her laugh of all things. And there was a large number of people who were die-hard believers in the fact that I stole all of these attributes maliciously for my own gain, citing the art I posted of us together, calling her an inspiration, when in reality, this was referring to the decision to become a hellhound. The only time Silver was mentioned in the original designing of my character was when we explained why we were pivoting to something else, and there were no references of her character involved. I grew more and more resentful of Silver over time between the constant belittling of myself, a controversy around my first waifu cup, and other incidents, even though she herself never interacted with me directly. And it was also that fact that made me insecure, like I wanted to know if she believed all these things or not. It really felt as if she didn't like that I even existed in the same space. So, at the point I was working with Nano consistently, we brought up not making any more models for her. If a VTuber model is how everyone recognizes you, then it'd be harder to compare us directly if we no longer look alike or have that shared similarity. It was a wrong and selfish decision. Uh-huh. But it made me feel better, and that's why it was a constant topic with Nano. Red pushed for this harder than I ever did because he knew how it affected me for years. But no matter what the outcome was, I wasn't going to walk away from working with Nano. Silver was completely undeserving of this treatment, and it was my own insecurities that led me to making this choice. I became unapologetically evil towards her due to no direct action of her own. There's no excuse for any of this. It's interesting, right? Because that's exactly how she made Spite feel. And even though that was the case, she never went out publicly to say, "Hey guys, stop harassing her." This idea of a VTuber copying another has been a problem in the VMing sphere for a long time. And that's the community's fault. But I personally don't like how often Cinder is throwing Red under the bus. Even here, saying, "Red pushed for this harder than I ever did." Yeah, so what? you are aware of this and you were pushing it in DMs with Nano 2, so it doesn't matter whether he did or not. Like I wonder, we're not even halfway through. Is she still going to push this narrative that Red was doing the majority of this and I was on the sidelines, but I'm still sorry. It's like, no, no, you were very much aware. She continues, "Moving on from Silvereil, let me talk about Spite. Once again, I had no involvement or knowledge of Red bringing up Spite to Nano in 2023. My only personal involvement with excluding someone specific from working with Nano was Silver. My design sheet and outfit were finished and made public at the very start of 2021. The first thing she mentions is a debut teaser in 2022 that was apparently posted on the same day as her original debut, which I honestly don't know if at the time this was intentional or not. I don't know when I first discovered Spiked, and it could have been after she debuted it. When I first debuted it, I was very possessive of my design details. I had made it a year and a half since my design sheet was finished and public to having a full VTuber debut as I watched everything grow and change from the sidelines, and I didn't want anyone else to capitalize on my concept before I could. Soon after my original debut, I remember Spite getting an update to her model that made it seem like she more closely resembled me, including fire added to her model without evidence. I saw it and thought she must have copied me, but I never did anything about it other than voice my frustrations to Red. I didn't want to start drama with anyone, and I didn't have ownership of her fire as a design detail. The references for the ripped shirt and shorts outfit on my bikini model was given to Nano in June of 2022 with a purpose of having a coverup outfit that would be safe for Twitch. The merch art she's referring to was designed around my concept of fire changing blue. The fact that the rest of the art was grayscale was the artist's choice since it was going onto the back of a hoodie and I didn't have a say or at least I didn't counter that being the final decision. There was no intention to deliberately look like Spite with this piece. Unfortunately, both my angel and sleepy outfits being similar to outfits Spite has done in the past was just a coincidence. I had always planned to one day make an angel counterpart to my demon outfit when it was being made in 2023, and my original ref sheet laid the groundwork for that idea. I've never liked theming anything around my brand in a religious light, so I chose to make my angel form more Greek Valkyrie than biblical, which also gives it a similar look to my demon form. The sleepy outfit was a lastminute decision to pivot from a fully new 3.0 model because I had the opportunity to work with gamer subs on an AFK flavor. Spike never should have received the hate comments over her outfit or any comments comparing us or belittling her because of my existence and I never advocated for anyone to do so, especially given my experience. In regards to Spite, I'll let you decide. Was it a coincidence that so many outfits matched each other? And is it a coincidence that every time Cinder complained about anything to Red, he would make it personal? Anyway, she continues, "Spite also brought up another creator who reached out to her about their experience with me, and I can only assume it's Nantales. They are an ASMR artist who at one point posted a Hellhound original character for one of their upcoming ASMR videos, and it was undoubtedly created using me as a reference." This was right after my debut, and like I said, I was very protective of my design elements being unique to me, and I overreacted. Shortly after, I apologized and they agreed to adjust the character design and I thought the matter was settled. At the very start of my online career, I was a girlfriend experienced ASMR artist. Before I started my channel, I had gotten into listening to role-play audios myself. I had always been a shut-in throughout high school and college, and I wasn't happy with where my life and relationship were at the time. After uploading my first few audios, my channel started growing fast. This was the first time I was inundated with so many people wanting to know me and talk to me. and I got lost in the excitement of it all. Not fully coming to terms with these messages being because of the kind of content I was making. I was immature and inexperienced with how to conduct myself online. I have never had many IRL friends and had met Rain doing ASMR. I quickly became comfortable chatting with him about everything, dulging my grievances about my personal life when I shouldn't have. I cheated on my boyfriend with Rain in these conversations, flirting and I used Rain for emotional comfort and sexual fantasy while I let my real life relationship collapse. It was about my dissatisfaction with my personal life and escaping into messages with someone else who I found through content focused around girlfriend and boyfriend RP. It was never about climbing the ladder with Rain, and I find that being his takeaway from why I moved on baffling. By the time I was ready to debut as Cinder, I wanted to leave that in the past. Still, to this day, I regret my decisions and have been living with it since, and I was lucky to be able to mend my relationship after this. So, she confirmed she cheated and Red was fully aware, at least as far as we know. Yeah, maybe Rain did have the wrong conclusion here. Maybe she actually moved on because she wanted to leave this part of her life behind. Sure. But did she cheat? Yeah. She then continues and says, "And lastly, I want to address peaches. This is a very big problem I have, and I'm sure many others in my position do too." At the end of the day, I am one person. I am one person working on multiple projects with multiple companies, talking to dozens of people, and streaming for hours almost every day. I've never had a big social battery, and I get tired very easily when interacting with people. I haven't had much energy at all over the past year, leading to me taking frequent naps. I've rarely been able to keep up with my closest handful of friends on a frequent basis, let alone everyone else. Red has always been a big help in keeping up with things, but he doesn't do everything. I'm so sorry I made you feel forgotten, Peaches. I've always cherished your friendship, and I was so incredibly excited to meet you in Paris. I'm so grateful for everything you've done for me, and I've never thought to purposefully drop you just because I could. I'm sorry. I know I've made a lot of people feel forgotten or ignored. It's so easy to get caught up in projects or what I'm doing while I have the energy to do it that people fall by the wayside. I understand the feelings of those who resent me over this and all I can say is I'm sorry. I don't deserve to be able to contact everyone involved directly to personally apologize. So, I'll do it here in the chance they read it. So, before we get into the individual apologies, I just want to clarify peaches means vamp. This is the same VTuber who called her out for having a boyfriend and trying to hide it from her as if they didn't know each other. Now, let's get into the individual apologies starting with two nano. I'm sorry I let things get to this point or even entertain the thought of you working exclusively with me. It's not fair to you. I wouldn't be here without you and I wouldn't have been able to do most of what I've already done without you. I felt overly attached to our relationship over the past 4 years and loved your work so much that I wanted to make myself exclusive to your art and should have never sought those feelings to be reciprocated. Everything you've ever worked on for me was always so perfect and I lost sight of how everyone else around me would have felt. I had no intentions of pressuring you into anything, but looking back on my clouded judgment, I can see how my messages felt that way. When I talked about how my models helped you improve, I meant that as looking back on how far we've come together. We've been friends for so long and cheered each other on when we both started growing and getting more opportunities like plushies, figures, etc. You had been my exclusive artist for full life 2D models for the majority of my time as a VTuber. And of course, I would have been sad if you didn't want to continue that relationship. But in all our private DMs, I was okay with you ultimately doing what was best for yourself. I saw you as someone I trusted and loved and wanted to make sure you were still taking care of yourself with all the projects you took on, mine or otherwise. I never saw you as just a business partner. I thought I was reassuring you that I'd always be understanding if you wanted to move on to other projects. I genuinely appreciated our friendship. I always saw you as a close friend and I'm sorry for what I'd put you through. To bow, since the start, I've always admired you and how genuine you've always been to everyone. I wouldn't be here without you either. I'm disgusted with myself for buying into the narrative that my friends were competition. I've never had such genuine friendships in my life, especially with you. We've gotten to know each other so well online and in person. You've already been through so much and the last thing I'd want to do is cause more harm. Well, that's a bit too late, but I did. I'm sorry for not reaching out sooner about these ideas that were put into my head. I wish we would have been able to talk about this, too. I didn't know about the severity of things that have been said and theorized about my own friends behind my back until now. It's my fault for not realizing the things Red was saying about you. The countless friendships I've made here within the last several years mean so much more to me than him and the business side of things. Wait, did you just say the countless friendships I've made here within the last several years mean so much more to me than him and the business side of things? like the friendships mean more to you than your boyfriend or did you just write this like in a non-clear way? Anyway, no amount of popularity or money means more to me than the relationships I've built in this community. I've always been myself, whether that be on stream or in person, and I hope the friends I made can understand. I never condone this behavior or any of the things that were said about my friends. I've always wanted everyone around me to thrive and find happiness. I can't stress enough how disappointed I am that I didn't see this sooner until it got to a breaking point. I'm sorry. Bow. After all these documents and these different people and their perspectives at their points of views, is there a single word that you believe in this paragraph? Let me know in the comments. Next up, we have to sack. I loved getting to chat with you in person and absolutely loved all the hard work you put into the Boss Rush song. I was so grateful to hear you were on board to edit the music video. I don't remember exactly why the stream got pushed back, but I definitely wouldn't have put the blame on you knowing about how soon the deadline was when you started working on it. I was so thankful for your willingness to complete the project despite everything, and the quality of how it turned out was incredible. I can't believe how Red talked about you, especially after all the effort you put in for me. I'm so sorry for everything that's happened. Next up, we have Takotten and Shy Lily. They don't get individual apologies. They got grouped up together. Anyway, she says, "I'm so sorry you had to get dragged into this. It's my fault I let it get this far, but I hope you can believe me when I say I had no knowledge of Red bringing you up in Nano's DMs. I just learned about all this myself, and there could have been so many other friends affected by the narrative that things always had to be competitive. If I knew Red was trying to exclude specific friends in this exclusivity deal, I would have spoken up. None of my friendships are worth sacrificing over an art piece. I love being your friend and all the memories we've shared, and I hope someday you can forgive me for allowing this to happen. Next up, we have to silver. Since the start, I loved that I saw someone else sharing so many similar interests to me, and I thought maybe someday we could talk about it all and be good friends. I was blinded by all these hate comments around me calling me your lesser half. I hate the person I've become towards you. I tried reaching out some time ago to try to start up a friendly conversation to change things and make things right, say hi to you at conventions, and support your endeavors. But despite all that, I was still being eaten alive by my own doubts and fear or harassment. I was pressured by the community as a whole to try reaching out to collaborate since I got these messages so often comparing us and I hoped we could work something out. The photo of me at the meet and greet was taken candidly and I thought it looked cute and I posted it without asking you which was wrong of me. I was so wrong for letting everyone get in my head about all these malicious feelings. I'm so sorry for any opportunities I've taken away from you. I'm sorry, Silver. Then we have the shortest apology in the entire document. to spite. I'm sorry. I had assumed things about your design that weren't true. And I'm sorry you've been harassed by commenters needing to compare us. And I apologize for the way Red spoke about you to Nano. You didn't deserve any of this spite. I'm sorry. Next up, we have Vamp Peaches. Two Peaches. I'm sorry if I made it seem like I was ignoring or ghosting you. I was so happy we had the opportunity to meet in person, and I was apologetic with how busy things were for me at the time. I wanted to spend more time with you, but as I got more and more DMs and messages, everything became so overwhelming. I've always had a low social battery and that made it so hard for me to keep up to date with all my friends. I've never had any ill feelings towards you and I still don't. Next up, we have Rain to Rain. You were the first person I met as an ASMR artist during a time where I was immature and vulnerable. I ended up being consumed by the content I was making and it led me to making awful decisions I still think about and regret. I was not in a good spot at the time. I've hated myself for this kind of behavior and it took a long time for me to move on from what happened. I have no excuses. I'm sorry you were dragged into my drama and I'm sorry how I made you feel after I just wanted to close the book on things. And finally, she says, "I'm sorry to my pyro pups and my mods for expecting me to lead a better example than this. I'm sorry to the VTuber community for looking towards me as someone to aspire to. I'm sorry to Kaiser who's put his heart and soul into everything he's ever done for me and not even talking to you about how I felt. I'm sorry to the dozens of artists that have put their hard work into me. And I'm sorry to the rest of my friends who I've let down. I've let a bad example and I don't expect forgiveness. I've made many mistakes over my 5 years on the internet and I'm only one person living the one life I get for the first and only time like everyone else. As I said at the start, I ended up developing an extremely unhealthy work life balance and the harm Red has caused with the way he viewed things is irreparable. The way I've been perceiving things lately is not how I want to view the world moving forward. And this goes to show there's a lot I need to address and improve if I'm going to continue being a creator. I'm devastated that the friendship so special to me may understandably never be mended again. I love my job and I love all the friends I've had. Thank you for reading signed Cinder. Woo! What a read. My voice is almost gone. What did I get out of this? Well, it was kind of what I was expecting. There's nothing she can really say that can repair what happened. Sure, Redacted was her manager. He was doing the talking for her. And even if we were to believe her and give her the benefit of the doubt, 100%. We still have proof and she admitted that she was purposefully targeting Silver. All of this was also happening over the last couple of years, maybe even a bit longer. This isn't just about her not being aware and Red being the guy who did all of this by himself. This is about how she's the boss, Red is her manager, and in any other industry, this would be considered gross negligence. Just imagine with me for a second if Nano didn't make her document. Then how long would this have carried on? I get goosebumps just thinking about it. Like, this is ridiculous. And it's actually very easy to shut down all her excuses. She was there when Bao showed her the model that Nano was working on. Throughout this entire document, she kept saying how Nano was more than just an artist. She was her friend. She loved her. When Bao vented to her and her friends in the group chat that the model was cancelled, a true friend would have messaged Nano, asked what was going on. A true friend would have reassured Bao, seen how they could help, but she didn't do any of this as if she was already planning it to begin with. And guess what? She was. Throwing your boyfriend under the bus for everything is just not going to cut it. Other YouTubers, especially the ones mentioned in the document, thought the same thing. So they made sure to publicly reply. When she saw her response, Ba replied almost immediately saying, "How? How can you say you didn't know? I showed you both my base model sketch from Nano at Weepcon. We walked on stage and performed together. You were in the group chat where I shared my sadness over Nano suddenly canceling my model after we were so close to begin live 2D and rigging. And to now find out that just the day before I shared my sadness, this is the conversation that happened that ruined months of debut prep, planning, merch preparation. If you want to apologize to me, please do it properly and stop hiding behind Red about attaching the two screenshots we already saw in Nano's document and a new screenshot showing the group chat where she vented about Nano dropping her. It's just not adding up. This apology is only making things worse and even weirder for Cinder. Shy Lily replied to this apology and here's what she had to say. The absolute audacity to sit here and continue to manipulate and gaslight is absolute insanity. The pain and mental torment you've caused to the ones closest and most supportive of you has been devastating, and I have never been so heartbroken and hurt so badly for my friends. You are the fakest person I've ever had the displeasure of supporting. Reading and hearing of how you've really viewed me behind my back, not just through screenshots of your man, but also your very own messages while having to sit here and read through these [ __ ] lies you spin makes me want to vomit. to claim that you didn't know a single thing and had zero awareness of what your man was up to when everyone who shared even a single moment with you knows that you basically operate as the same person sharing every waking moment while loving to jump at the slightest opportunity to turn into your most slanderous self as soon as the opportunity was given even when talking about your friends is sickening. I have experienced your own actions without red in a situation where in your own screenshotted words you express a pressure to live up to what Lily is and proceeded to throw one of your most loyal and supportive friends under the bus after months of continuous planning just because you consistently chose business over friends, never feeling bad for failing them just to earn the bag and compete with me over a vcard collab that you rescheduled to be on the exact date your friend needed you to keep an important promise. you actively lied about it to them, instead blaming me for a collab you rescheduled, adding me to the pool of excuses to save your ass when you realized you were being a bad friend. Why blame me for choosing to miss an obligation you agreed to on one of the most important days in that friend's career? Everything you do is out of competition through your constant need to oneup people who are the sole reason you even have these opportunities and platforms to earn from to begin with. You're welcome, by the way. You claim that it's just business. Well, in the business world, there has to be accountability, and all you've done is try to shove it away and admit nothing. In true narcissistic fashion, you're only feeling sorry about yourself and your own consequences in your career and try to salvage it. I'm sorry for everyone who looked up to you as an inspiration, and I'm especially sorry for your fans. Pyrops deserve better. Wow. You know, Shily typically avoids drama. Even when there's her name involved, she avoids it. She never gives it any attention. But this time, not only did she have something to say, she gave out a careerending statement, bro. And speaking of career ending, Cinder's post has almost as many comments as likes with many people expressing their discontent. The most liked reply here is Buff Pup saying, "Dude, [ __ ] off." And as you can see, some of the biggest independent YouTubers on the planet are here saying how disappointed they are while simultaneously not being in the slightest convinced by anything in this quote unquote apology of hers. It's a disaster. But you would be gravely mistaken if you thought this was the end. No, this incident is the gift that keeps on giving. Aru, the literal ass behind the invisible woman in Marvel Rivals. Yeah, I'm not even kidding. They actually use her as reference. But more importantly, she's a streamer and content creator who used to be a VTuber and is on friendly terms with Silvervvil. She revealed to us after Cinder's catastrophic apology that her weird obsessive/stalker behavior towards Silvervvil didn't start in 2023. This went on for way longer, and she tried to use Aru to get to her. Here's what she had to say in her statement. I hadn't planned on tweeting anything about this until I saw Cinder's apology. While I wasn't hurt to the extent others were, it's clear now that I was lied to and used, not treated as a friend, but as a tool. I first met Cinder during a Twitch rivals tournament and really looked up to her. We hit it off, messaged a lot, and got even closer at TwitchCon 2022, where I spent most of the day with her in Red. At one point, she noticed I was mutuals with Silver, someone I admired since meeting her at PAX, and asked if I could introduce her. I thought she was just a fan like I was. Cinder invited me to go with her to Silver Veil's meet and greet. And it meant a lot to me. As someone who didn't grow up with many social invitations due to being homeschooled in a foreign country, that gesture felt special. But looking back, I realized she only invited me because she thought I could give her access to Silvervvil. After I introduced them, Cinder pushed me to ask Silvereil for a collab. I'm someone who rarely initiates collabs. I prefer to build friendships offstream first or let things happen naturally. Still, I went out of my comfort zone to help because I believe she genuinely admired Silvervale. Now I know that wasn't true. And realizing she actually harbored resentment the whole time makes me feel completely used. I wasn't a person to her, just a connection. I did message Silvereil about the collab the first time, but when Cinder followed up again, I brushed it off because I didn't want to pressure her. Over time, I started noticing that Cinder didn't treat me like a real friend, more like a means to an end. Sometimes she made it clear IRL that she didn't even like me, and I can't help but think it's because I didn't push harder for the collab. By 2023, our interactions had nearly stopped. Still, I tried to keep things friendly in DM/IRL because I didn't know how to stand up for myself or set boundaries. Don't worry, even if you set boundaries, she would have still found a way to backstab you, right? Look at Silvereil. Anyway, she continues, that's changed now for obvious reasons. It's hard to say, but Cinder's apology doesn't feel genuine, especially not towards Silvereil. The truth is, Cinder isn't the only one who makes others in the space feel used or small. People like her, Yaki, and others made me feel that the best choice for myself was to step away from Vubing entirely and made me afraid to build new connections. But as I said yesterday, there are good people in this space and they're the ones worth holding on to. Don't let the bad ones stop you from being your genuine self. To my community, I think I'd like to try coming back to Vtubing. When we talked about it last night, hearing how much all of you love the Vubing streams honestly hit me hard. It made me sad to realize I gave up on something I love just because of the shitty awful people who poisoned the space for me. To the friends I pulled away from because I was trying to protect my peace, I'm sorry. I'd love the chance to reconnect and rebuild those friendships. I started VTubing because I believed in the joy and creativity of this community. It's heartbreaking to see that spirit dimmed by people who take advantage of others kindness, hold them accountable, call it out. What I went through wasn't nearly as intense as what Nanolys experienced, but I do understand how hard it is to say no to a friend, especially when they make you feel like you're the only one who can help. I truly hope everyone affected by Cinder can heal and move forward, and I'm sorry for any negativity the situation has brought up from my side as well. She then links three different images of DMs between her and Cinder. The first image is from 2022, and it's Cindra starting off the conversation saying, "Would you want to come meet Silvereil with me at 2:30 p.m.?" Au then says, "Of course, I'll go with you." To which Cindra says, "I'm just really nervous and I think I remember you meeting her before." Dude, she is so sneaky. Au then says, "Yes, I've met her. Oh my god, she's so nice. Don't worry." To which Cindra said, "You're the best. Oh my god." Aru said, "That's you. What time do you want to meet up?" Cindra said, "Whenever you're free." And Aru said, "Okay, I'll be free in 10." In the next image, a few days have passed. And it's Cindra saying, "Were you still thinking about messaging Silvereil about a wolf girl chat? I'm not sure if she'd really want to, but I'd love to do more with you anyway. We should plan our spooky collab when we've recovered from this weekend." Au then says, "Yes, let me message her and ask if that's okay." Yes, yes, I agree. Let's plan something. Cinder then says, "We can wait a bit if you're still recovering, but if you had a day/time in mind, just let me know. My schedule's pretty open right now. I know I'm pooped from this weekend, but I want to do lots with my friends still." To which Aru said, "Sounds like she would be down to play games together once her schedule clears up." In the third image, we see DMs between Aru and Silvervvil. With Silver saying, "Hi, it was amazing seeing you, too." Aru then says, "I was wondering if you'd ever be down to play some games off stream if had time. Totally understandable if you're too busy, though." Cinder and I were just talking about how fun it would be to have a canine night. Cinder was the hellhound that was with me at the meet and greet. Silvervel then said, "That would be a ton of fun. I've been really busy lately with the con prep and stuff, but things have been calming down lately." There's also a fourth image, so it wasn't just three. And these are DMs with Cinder and Aru around a couple weeks after the initial meetup. And it's Cinder saying, "Hey, Aru, have you heard from Silvervvil about doing a Wolfy collab with us?" To which Aru said, "Let me message her right now." So, hey, yet another person that Cinder manipulated and used. What a surprise. Bear in mind that a year later, she would go on to also show up to her meet and greet and tell her mythic manager to message her on her behalf. I'm telling you, the people involved here need to get a restraining order on Cinder. This is ridiculous. Shortly after this disastrous apology, Bao went live to talk about it. And look, it was very emotional. Here's what she had to say. I'll let her do the talking around what I would have done if I was in their shoes. I just I I can't I couldn't understand it. I couldn't understand it. We had been through so much offline and online and there's nothing more confusing and more painful than seeing someone in your friend group be so kind and so warm to everyone around you and feeling that they have slowly become colder and colder towards you and not knowing what you did or if it's your imagination. But because everyone loves them, you don't know if you want to say anything and so you keep it to yourself and you keep hoping it's your imagination. But then the cruel realization hits that it wasn't. And it's even more worse than you could have ever imagined. So yeah, it's definitely a very hard watch. Look, to the average person, this is just another drama. But to these people like Bao and Cotton and Silver and so many more, this is real life. This is someone they've known for years and genuinely thought that they were close and they were friends and they tried their best to treat Cinder like a precious person, not just a content creator or a VTuber. This is not something they'll just get over, right? They need therapy. They need they need psychiatric help. This is trauma. It's very hard to trust someone after something like this. As I've already mentioned, this didn't happen overnight. This was a multi-year operation from both Cinder and Redacted to backstab her friends. And she only apologized because she got caught. That is it. and people won't be forgetting about it anytime soon. But the question on everyone's minds is no doubt, is this the end of Cinder? Well, not necessarily. She might have burned every possible bridge in the VTuber community, but that doesn't mean she won't have viewers. She's an absolute psychopath that can't be trusted, but hey, other creators have done worse things and they still have a career. She will just never be able to reach the same level she had before this controversy. That's for certain. And in the end, controversies like these only serve to hurt gamer subs even further. She's a partial owner. I wouldn't be surprised if they dropped her. Anyway, that's the entire drama. I don't know how long the video is going to be, but just because you made it until the end, you get the reward of seeing what 4chan has to say about it. That's right. 4chan is back, baby. It was hacked, but now it's back. Let's see what they think of this drama in the mega thread. All right, this is it. Let's see what the top comet has to say. That's great and all, but I don't care whatsoever. I just want to Cinder's tit. All right, guys. Thanks so much for watching until the end. I really appreciate it. I love you so much and I'll see you in the next video, whenever that is.