[Music] thank you our third session we want to talk about how to listen like a leader I as I was working on this session I had a stack of leadership books on my desk and I had to my shock I had a very difficult time finding anybody who wrote in a leadership context about the importance of listening there are a lot of great things in the leadership books I have about leading but very rarely do they devote very much time on the idea of listening and I think listening and learning to listen is one of the most important leadership skills we can develop a lot of people think leading is all about talking and telling people what to do and giving directions and and teaching and training and all of that and many of you going into Ministry if you're preaching or church planting or you're doing things on campus and just leading discipleship groups you are doing a lot of talking and so what happens as Leaders we we work hard on learning how to talk and learning how to communicate but I think it's just as important that we learn how to listen and that we dedicate ourselves to listening and learning and so we're going to talk about that in this session how to listen like a leader I realize we have people I think it's 15 nations in this class and so I'll I'll try to tell this intro to this session in a way that hopefully can make sense to everyone I know the Filipinos will get it but um how many of you were aware are your um follow the NBA at all the National Basketball Association in America how many how many of you don't follow that at all you don't even have a clue when you say basketball you don't even know what we're talking about okay okay um last year in the NBA the American basketball the uh the professional basketball a team from Northern California the Golden State Warriors won the championship all right we're gonna know the proper response is okay come on you guys were all Spurs fans two years ago so the horrible Heat fans um if you're from San Francisco you can legitimately be a fan but um here they are in the locker room after the Championship and the guy holding the trophy that is coach Steve Kerr what was interesting after that Championship actually before this happened a couple weeks before this on June 15th of 2015 oddly enough the Wall Street Journal carried a story about the NBA finals you don't often find the Wall Street Journal actually you don't ever find the Wall Street Journal writing about sports about an NBA finals but they did and the title the story was had this title how a 28 year old assistant may have saved Golden State that was the title In The Wall Street Journal so okay you have to read that you're you're usually reading about financial issues in the Wall Street Journal in southern here's a headlines that says how a 28 year old assistant may have saved Golden State that assistant he was not an assistant coach he was the assistant to the coach his name was Nick urin he was a special assistant to the coach which what he meant what that means is he was a video editor he was the one who scheduled the bus to pick up the team to take him to practice during the off-season he was the one who scheduled the coach's airline tickets he was not a basketball person he was the assistant to the head coach and so the Wall Street Journal is saying how this guy just saved their season here's what happened Golden State Warriors were down two to one to the Cleveland Cavaliers okay in the NBA Finals is the first team to win four games wins and so now Cleveland has won two golden states one one if they go up three to one almost nobody ever comes back when you're down three to one and so this next game is this is this is it this is the season and the Wall Street Journal is saying Nick urin is the hero how here's what happened it was 3 A.M the morning of game four they have to win this game and at 3am this assistant the video editor the guy who books the bus and the airplane this guy called the assistant coach I think he was too afraid to call the head coach at 3am he called the assistant coach Luke Walton who used to play for the Lakers so there's a basketball man and he said I have an idea how we can win now most organizations the phone would have immediately been hung up but Luke Walton because of the culture of the Golden State Warriors he listened and he said I will take it to coach Kerr the next morning at breakfast coach Kerr the head coach is talking about what are we going to do we can't stop LeBron James we're getting beat we have to win this game or it's pretty much over and nothing we're doing is working and then he says well you know what our video guy has an idea now these coaches are paid millions of dollars to figure these things out and the video guy who books the buses and the air flights he's got an idea how to stop LeBron James and his idea was this LeBron James is a beast he's a freak of nature here's the idea let's bench seven foot tall Andrew Bogut the big Australian who was the number one pick a few years before he started 65 games that year let's put him on the bench and instead let's put in six foot six which in the NBA that's that's small let's put the seven footer on the bench and let's replace him with a six foot six guy who has not started one game the whole year and you're going that's your solution and he goes yes because I watched at 3am I was up watching the finals from the year before when LeBron James played on the heat the Miami team and the Way San Antonio beat him they put their big guys on the bench and they got these small guys who were really fast and way too small to guard the brain LeBron and they were like gnats okay you know how Nets are in in it worked and he goes I think it could work and so here's what was amazing about it coach Kerr goes okay we'll try that and so he the guy who started every game that year and they have the best record and he puts this guy who hasn't started the whole year and what happened that night is exactly what the video guy said would happen is Andre agudala shut down the brain LeBron which means he only scored 20 points and oddly enough ego dollar that six foot six guy scored 22 points and they won that game when they won the next game and they won the next game and Andre Iguodala who hadn't started all year was the MVP it should have been Nick you're in The Wall Street Journal is writing about how this guy saved the save the team now why because the head coach listened he was willing to listen and not only willing to listen he built a culture where it didn't matter where you were in the organization your ideas mattered and it was a culture where people could speak up and they could bring how many great ideas do we lose when we build a culture where ideas only flow from the top down rather than flowing top down bottom up and sideways and ideas flowing all across but coach Kerr had built a culture where people felt free to contribute and bring their ideas so we're talking about listening in contrast to that second Kings 17 verse 14 and then verse 40. says this but they would not listen and they were stiff-necked as their fathers were who did not trust the Lord their God they would not listen then verse 40 they would not listen but they persisted in their former practices even while these people were worshiping the Lord they were serving their Idols to this day their children and grandchildren continue to do as their fathers did and it says place this time and and and Old Testament history where they wouldn't listen and they're not listening not only affected them but it says their children and their grandchildren and when we don't listen as Leaders the impact goes far and wide the negative impact now I was recently having coffee with a young leader and I noticed during it was a mentoring moment and while we're talking sipping our coffee his phone went off and he picked it up while I was talking and did something and then I continued talking and then five minutes later it happened again the third time in 30 minutes that this young leader ignored me and started interacting with his phone I just stopped and created a very awkward silent moment and when it got a little more Awkward I said are you finished and then we had a long talk about listening and I think he threw his phone away after that at least he's never had a phone around me it's as if he doesn't have one now and I think we've there are a lot of I think what's happened is many now are growing up with so many distractions in our pockets that we don't know how to listen anymore we don't know how to focus we can't dial in and really listen with all of our heart soul mind and strength Proverbs 15 31 says he who listens to a life-giving rebuke will be at home among the wise how many want to feel at home around wise people the key is listening it's not an IQ issue it's a focus issue Proverbs 18 13 He Who has an answer before listening that is folly and shame Proverbs 29 Proverbs 19 20-27 listen to advice and accept instruction and in the end you will be wise that's our goal not that we just collect knowledge but wisdom stop listening to instruction my son and you will stray from the words of knowledge Jesus said in John 10 27 my sheep listen to my voice I know them and they follow James 1 19 dear brothers take note of this everyone should be quick to listen slow to speak and slow to become angry now who do we listen to and here's the heart of what I want to say today if you want to be a leader you're on a leadership track you're you're serving your way to leadership so you can serve more who do you listen to number one and it's vital that we listen to the right people number one we have to listen to our leaders and our mentors recently my friend Kevin York showed me a letter where he was correcting a talented young Church planter pastor and pastor had displayed a condescending tone and sort of a know-it-all attitude and Kevin felt the need to correct that and so I read the email they had a conversation and then he was responding in an email I don't suggest you correct people by email but there's a response to another one and and he corrected the guy and it was very to the point but very loving and the guy being corrected responded with a thank you letter and he said that if you ever see anything any attitude or anything wrong please point it out don't let me be this way and and it was a to me it was a beautiful picture of leadership because someone had said I don't want to I don't want my flaws and my mistakes to be obvious to everyone and nobody says anything they're not obvious to me or I would change So speaking so when Kevin did speak in he didn't get offended he didn't get his feelings hurt he didn't react he didn't he didn't pout he didn't cry he didn't whine he didn't run he took it to heart and said thank you and please don't stop doing this so the question is do you listen to your leaders and mentors I think we all listen when they encourage us but when they have to bring correction and adjustment do you listen number two we need to listen to our peers and our friends you know it's the easiest thing in the world is to listen to those above us because usually they pay our salaries they're our boss and really only a fool wouldn't listen to their boss but the question next one is will you listen to your peers will you listen to your friends will you listen to people who are not over you and leading you but they're standing beside you most of I have so many friends in leadership who have said to me and other friends will you please speak the truth and love to me and I have said the same thing to my friends and peers in Ministry if I'm out of line tell me if I'm have some blind spots tell me and so I've made a deal with many of my friends with Kevin with Joey with Manny with with rice with Pastor Russ and bread and and so many people that that we would speak into one another's lives as peers not as each other's boss but his peers Proverbs 27 5-6 says better is open rebuked than hidden love wounds from a friend can be trusted but an enemy multiplies kisses and what it means that somebody who's always saying nice flowery things that can really be an enemy a friend is one who will speak the truth in love and even though it wounds even though it's painful sometimes but that's what real friendship is Thomas Merton who was a Trappist monk you know trappists don't talk they don't say much and so when a Trappist monk says something you know this is going to be powerful anybody heard of Thomas Merton uh if you ever a great devotional book no man is an island okay do you good to read from a Catholic monk sometimes um here's what he said Merton said this may God preserve me from the love of friends who will never dare rebuke me may God preserve me from the love of friends who will never dare rebuke me that's how I know when I have a real friend when they will dare speak the truth in love so will you listen to your friends thirdly we need to learn to listen to our followers many leaders will listen to their leaders because they don't have a choice some will even listen to their peers and their friends but it's a whole nother thing to listen to our followers some people don't think that's valuable for a leader I mentioned earlier in this session how coach Steve Kerr listened to his assistant Nick Iran who was his follower now if there was ever a leader who had an excuse not to listen to Nick urin it was coach Steve Kerr coach Kerr was a basketball genius in college he led his team Arizona to the Final Four he played 13 years in the NBA and won five championship rings three with the Chicago Bulls two with the San Antonio Spurs so this guy had played 13 years five championships as a player he was the general manager of the whole franchise of the Phoenix Suns he was one of the most respected television analysts for basketball games and then he became a head coach so he had done everything in basketball you could possibly do and here's a non-basketball guy giving him advice how they can win the finals if there was ever someone who should have said you don't know what you're talking about just be quiet let us up here figure this out but here's an example of a guy who listened to his follower and the follower happened to have the idea that they needed First Kings 12. Solomon has come to the end of his kingdom and his son rehoboam is taking over the kingdom and watch what happens this is a leadership transition watch rehoboam First Kings 12 3 so they sent for jeroboam not rehoboam is the new king they sent for jeroboam and he and the whole assembly of Israel went to rehoboam the brand new king and said to him your father that's Solomon your father put a heavy yoke on us now lighten the harsh labor and the heavy yoke he put on us and we will serve you okay so these are followers going to the leader and saying boy it was pretty tough under your dad could you make it a little easier on us so I think so far rehoboam good job okay he's got a culture where the people following him feel like they can bring an idea and he listened in verse 5 watch his response and think about is this a good response or a bad response watch it rehoboam the brand new king the young leader answered go away for three days and come back to me so the people went away verse six then King rehoboam consulted the elders is that a good move or a bad move okay so he's listened to his followers he's not making an instant decision he's going to think about it for three days and consult with wise leaders so far so good right that's pretty good leadership he's willing to listen he's going to really process and and give the idea some time he's going to meet with some wise leader so this is really good leadership Ria Bowen's off to a good start verse 6. then King rehoboam consulted the elders who had served his father Solomon during his lifetime how would you advise me to answer these people so now he's listening to peers and he's listening to leaders that worked with his dad he's listening every as much as he can listen verse 17 they replied if today you'll be a servant there's that word again they're advising the leader to be a servant if you will be a servant to these people and serve them and give them a favorable answer they will always be your servants you think that's good advice the advice for the new king the young leader is take a servant's posture be a servant and all the people in the Kingdom will serve you they'll be loyal to you they'll serve you though this is going to work wow but look what he does verse 8 but reborn rejected the advice the elders gave him and consulted the young man who had grown up with him and were serving him and of course you know the end of the story I think if you don't you should it didn't go well after that it was a disaster he started out listening at least having an atmosphere where the ideas could come he consulted with the elders but then he rejected the idea from his followers the idea from the elders and he got an unproven team to listen to who would tell him what he wanted to hear and he actually made things worse than it had ever been it was a disaster at some point we have to listen to our followers it doesn't mean we do what our followers say all the time but we build a culture of listening sometimes the advice is bad and we reject it sometimes like the Golden State Warriors it's good advice and we humbly listen to it and give credit where credit's due again you're not the leader because you're the smartest you're the leader because God put you there and he puts people around you to help you make good decisions number four if listening to followers is difficult this next one's really difficult this is hard we have to listen to our critics and if you're a leader you're going to have plenty of critics and the larger your leadership uh sphere the more critics you will have there will be people who feel called by God to be your critics especially when you're a public speaker they will feel that their god-given duty to correct every time you mispronounce a Bible verse or Bible name and they will take it seriously and then they'll blog about you if you haven't had people criticizing you on their blogs with Anonymous names and you haven't really become a leader yet just wait and then they'll tweet about you and Instagram about you and whatever else comes along the way and it'll be there they'll really Relish in that but what do you do with your critics what do you do with the people now you don't obsess over it and you know try to read every criticism that's out there but look what happened when the apostles in the book of Acts we're having some critics acts 6 verse 1-4 in those days when the number of Jews was increasing the Grecian Jews those are Greeks The Grecian Jews among them complained against the hebbradic Jews so you've got Greeks in Hebrews religiously they're Jews they're from two different parts of the world so culturally linguistically there's a they're a bit different and so they're complaining against the hebraic Jews because their widows were being overlooked in the daily distribution of food verse two so the twelve gathered to disciples so here's a complaint here's some criticism what did the apostles do criticisms coming up what did they do how did they handle that how did they respond to their critics the twelve gathered all the disciples together and said it would not be right for us to neglect the ministry of the word in order to wait on tables Brothers choose seven men from among you who are known to be full of the spirit and wisdom and we will turn this responsibility over to them and we will give our attention to prayer in the ministry of the word notice a couple of things number one the apostles these leaders were secure enough to listen to criticism some leaders the moment criticism happens they react defensively bad move I have found that most criticism toward me some of it is bad spirited some of it's angry some of it they're angry people but often there's an element of Truth there I would prefer the truth be spoken in love but many times people speak the truth with no love we still need to embrace the truth sometimes critics are just liars and you don't need to listen to that it'll discourage you but sometimes in the criticism there's validity now these apostles were secure enough to listen to their critics the complaints and do something about it they didn't rebuke the messenger and go how dare you where the apostles how dare you criticize the way we're leading well they did they said okay you've got a valid criticism you've got a valid complaint our organization is not very good there may have even been some racial issues between the Greeks and the Hebrews and there's some maybe some issues coming up maybe some ethnic issues that were happening their cultural issues cross-cultural clashes and organizational disaster and so they looked and said you know what this is really valid we're we're not doing a good job here so here's how we're going to solve it we're going to keep doing what we're called to do which is prayer in the ministry of the world but we're going to make sure this gets solved so let's find the right people and let's delegate and let's Empower and let's give some people some authority to get this solved and I think it was a great solution but it happened because they listened to criticism as a leader you can't get to the place where you react negatively and defensively every time someone criticizes because sometimes it's a valid complaint like this one many times it's not valid and you don't need to do anything about it and you sure don't need to respond in social media but sometimes there's validity and there's wisdom in it if we just will not be so defensive and sensitive here's what will happen leaders will either grow thick skin if you have thick skin as a leader let me let me go the other way how many of you know what it means to have thin skin I know In some cultures you know thin skin means you get offended all the time thin skin you'll end up having a hard heart because you'll always take things personally and always get hurt if you grow thick skin you'll have a soft heart you have a choice every time what I find is people who have thin skin everything becomes personal everything hurts them every criticism becomes something personal hurt my feelings what happens those people end up having a hard heart but if you will grow thick skin not take everything personally that thick skin will protect your heart and you'll keep a soft heart and what happened here is the apostles did not take it personally and get offended and get hurt and get angry and get defensive they look past the criticism and the critics to the issue okay there is something to this there's a problem we need to fix let's get it fixed let's not get into camps and take things personally and then start blogging about each other and and putting nasty things on Instagram and Twitter let's fix the problem let's not attack the critics and that's not to say that all criticism is valid a lot of it's crazy I never respond to critics or complaints or suggestions that do not have a real name to them if it's Anonymous I don't read it if it's a fake name I don't read it I don't care if you're not willing to give me a face and a name I'm not willing to listen that's how I do it if someone is bold enough and honest enough to get their name and their face behind it then I at least owe it to look at it and see if it's valid but if it's not if it's signed a fake name or no name because you know in our church every Sunday every time that I preach or anybody preaches somebody who put a note in the offer and complaining about something we said you know and when it's not a real name I don't even want to see it don't show it to me just tear it up throw it away um but if it's a real person going hey think about saying this this way or that then I I don't mind looking at that so um all right enough of that okay critics don't get caught up in your critics but just there is something to listening like the apostles they were secure enough number five your spouse how many of you are married okay how many of you are not married but you will be someday okay all right we're not trying to advertise just checking some of you seriously I'm not being funny some of you might have a gift of celibacy and that is seriously there are people who and there's a call of God like the Apostle Paul and like Jesus and I do want to say this um Jesus was fulfilled as a human and fulfilled in his calling and was never married being married does not make a person whole being in Christ makes a person whole so if you're single don't ever think that somehow all of your life is on hold until you get married the Apostle Paul's life was not on hold it was the call of God for him to never be married Jesus does not living a half-life because he wasn't married he lived a full life and fully in God's purpose never married never had kids and so don't think for a second that if you don't get married and don't have kids that somehow your life is somehow not what it should have been and it's not fully what God intended don't think that for a second don't wait on marriage to do something great for God do it now and along the way no telling what God might do all right just a little commercial there I just but so I'm talking about number five I won't spend much time on it because most of you are not married but you've got to listen to your spouse some people find that difficult to do and uh if if that's the case you need marriage help go talk to Pastor Nixon actually sometimes if you really want marriage advice go find someone single because they will speak with authority you can always speak with authority about things you don't have to do um before I had children I was a total expert then once you start having children you go wait a minute that doesn't even work that's not very smart but you know when you're not a worship leader you can tell everybody how to do it and you're not a church planter boy you got all the ideas but then when you go do it then you realize most of those were just you know they were like unicorns they're not they're not real those ideas they're so look you got to listen to your spouse and here's what I find um the more I listen to Deborah the better decisions I make okay two are better than one that's what God Said So if you're married you've got to listen to your spouse the most important thing about husband and wife is that you're in unity and you're in agreement and so you just need to sometimes stop everything else you're doing until you get in unity and if you can't get in unity you need to get outside help to get in unity and for those who are married and those who will be married one day let me say this Deborah and I agree when we first got married we made a list and we've kept a list of different people and we said if we ever get to the point on a big decision and we cannot agree then here are three people will call and we'll get them to speak into our life and if we can't get in unity we'll just do what they say we'll just take that as which one we've only done it one time and over 30 years of marriage only once we've gotten in such a disagreement that we could not decide what to do and it was a long um it was a long debate another word for a fight and we were not getting any closer to agreement on this big decision and finally I said okay let's pull that list up we had a list of people Deborah look we're not going to ever get an agreement on this so here's remember we wrote that list if we ever get to a place we can't get then there's three names which one do you want to call and to my fear she picked pastor philbinesso I knew Phil would agree with her I knew it Phil always agrees with the wife I mean if you get marriage counseling fulfill that's always 100 your fault if you're the husband doesn't matter what it is he doesn't even need to listen to what happened it's your fault so I'm thinking oh no no I should have held my hand over that remember these two people we said so we're sitting here in Manila it's like past midnight for us we've been all day trying to and so I will call Phil right now so it was like noon for him he was in California so we called him and I go Phil this is Steve and I said look Deborah and I are in a big fight he goes is she throwing things at you I said yeah but she missed he goes good he goes just stay far away no she didn't throw anything and I said Phil here's the deal we're in we've had a long conflict here we can't make a decision and we decided that if we couldn't get in agreement we would call you and whatever you say we're going to do it A or B and so I'm going to explain my side and then she's going to explain the crazy side [Applause] and then I want you to tell us what we should do and we agree we're going to do it and then if it's not right we'll blame you for the rest of your life she goes okay so I told my side I had her the phone she told her side and then I won't tell you what happened to reserve some level of dignity uh so in three decades of marriage we've only had to do that one time many times she'll go okay we're going to pull the list on calling okay okay you know what I agree we're let's go do that or she'll do that okay all right never mind so as a couple it's just vital that I don't know how you'll do it but you just can't stay in disagreement on I'm not talking about where to go eat lunch okay just never mind but big decisions you have to be in agreement and sometimes you can't and sometimes you need to bring in Outsiders and and admit your failure to get an agreement and get counseled get somebody to help you so if you're a married couple here and you know one of you wants to plant the church and the other one wants to go be a missionary in Mongolia and the in either of your back you're not in agreement don't go do something big until you're on the same page it's not going to be good if one of you drags the other one into something that you think is the call of God it's going to be a disaster you need to get an agreement before you go do something again big things not where you're going on vacation okay or whether you're ordering the Big Mac with fries or without fries okay that that but big you need help all right and finally last one who do we listen to finally we need to listen to gods okay can I just State the obvious listen to God and honestly all of the others is all about hearing the will of God and hearing the voice of God I wish God would just show up and speak through a burning bush or something all the time but often he speaks through my wife often he speaks through my friends sometimes he speaks through my critics many times he speaks through my followers many times he speaks through my mentors and my leaders often all the time he speaks through my friends if I'll just listen all of those listening to all of those people is ultimately about trying to hear God and what God wants me to do and what God wants to tell me and what God wants to say and many times God doesn't speak the way we want him to and many times he doesn't say what we wish he would say First Kings chapter 19 is the classic story of God not speaking the way we want him to speak and the time we want him to speak and saying what we want him to say what's amazing about First Kings 19. is the chapter before Elijah has had the most amazing miraculous intervention of his whole life he's on the top of Mount Carmel and he pours water on the wood soaks it in water and he challenges the prophets of Baal who are running around and praying like crazy people and and their God doesn't their gods don't answer their prayer and then he soaks the water remember they've had a drought there's no water and he's taking the last bit of water they have and he's pouring it on his wood to get it wet and he says now the real God is going to bring fire down there and God does it and the wet wood burns and wow it's this amazing moment miraculous God answered his prayer God came through and then the very next chapter Watch What Happens and if you ever hear the idea of the Mountaintop in the valley watch how fast I Elijah goes from The Mountaintop miraculous experience to Down in the Valley of the shadow of death here it goes verse 11 the Lord said go out and stand on the mountain in the presence of the Lord for the Lord is about to pass by Elijah needs a word from God says go stand on that mountain then a great and powerful wind tore the mountains apart and shattered the Rocks before the Lord that's a strong wind blew the mountain apart and shattered rocks but the Lord was not in the wind after the wind there was an earthquake but the Lord was not in the earthquake verse 12. after the earthquake came a fire but the Lord was not in the fire and after a fire came a gentle whisper verse 13. when Elijah heard it he pulled his cloak over his face it's like a hoodie okay he pulls it down over his face and he went out and he stood at the mouth of the cave then the voice said to him what are you doing here all this time he's wanting a word from God the earthquake the wind the fire and then a gentle whisper oh that sounds like God and what did you say God why are you here what a profound word wait a minute I need a word from God yeah why are you standing here no time to expound on that sometimes when we finally hear from God it's really not what we wanted to hear have any of you ever discovered that you're seeking this word from God and then you get it and go oh no no that's not what I want can I get another word can I trade that one in hearing from God it's not always the earthquake it's not always the big moment and it's not always what exactly we want to hear but many times he does speak through all of the all of the people on the list we've taken a whole session to talk to leaders about listening again there are a lot of important tools to develop as leaders I don't think they're any that are more important than learning to listen ultimately is learning to listen to the voice of God to hear God but often we hear him through people through leaders through friends through circumstances through critics through complaints through followers through spouses and sometimes like this through a gentle whisper from him now let's take the next few minutes and we'll put three questions actually more but three categories of questions first one how do you respond when your leaders correct you how do you respond when your peers correct you how do you respond to your critics okay number one is all about when you hear things you don't really want to hear how do you respond you get mad do you get defensive do you get insecure do you react or do you listen question number two or the second set of questions have you given anyone permission to speak into your life who if not make a list right now people you'll ask to do so there are a number of people I've gone to and I have said look I need you to speak into my life I know there are times when I'm wrong and when I have a bad attitude when I have a blind spot I need you to speak up so talk about that have you done that have you ever are you just assuming people will do that or are you hoping they won't usually if we're leaders and we get serious about it we go to people and say I really need you to speak to me the things I don't really want to hear the higher you go in leadership the less likely it is that people will speak into your life unless you ask them to finally number three what are the potential benefits and pitfalls of listening to your followers there are some pitfalls there are some people who do basically opinion polls like politicians all they do is listen to the people they're supposed to lead there's a problem with that so what are the benefits and the pitfalls of listening to the people you follow I mean the people who follow you all right take the next few minutes six seven minutes talk about that with the people on your table okay pick one of those questions and it says okay we're going to wrap up today we have about 10 minutes left and I want to take a Time and just have any q a any questions anybody has anything that we've covered today about how to think like a leader how to act like a leader or how to listen like a leader anything that anybody has about those topics or anything else on leadership then uh we will open it up right now any questions anybody has we've got a few minutes left okay run to the mic and we'll try to address that Pastor she's referring to uh listening to to uh to others so children will of course we also need to listen to children so will they fall under followers or eventually peers or something I think yeah I think so I think as a parent when you're doing Ministry your your kids again I'm not it obviously depends on how old they are how much you listen but I know that my kids my youngest is 25 but especially when they came in their teenage years they really helped me I always wanted our church to be a church that here's what we've said from day one of our church for 30 what 30 four years now however how long was 32th or whatever it is 32 yeah um we said we want to build the kind of church that the next generation will love I never cared if people my age liked our church I always cared if people my kids age like the church it was always a good barometer for me when my kids wanted their friends to sleep over at our house on Saturday so they could go to our church on Sunday when our kid my kids were like 10 12 14 when they were like 16 18 20 as they though they they wanted to but then there were times when they would have a conversation with me about our music um Dad I know you and Pastor Joey like that kind of music but uh this is bad and we would talk about it and you know what sometimes it would change because I did not want to lose the Next Generation So I listened to him um so I yeah I think that's important not that you want your eight-year-old making church decisions as if they're an elder but I do think there are some things that uh those who grew up in your household are going to have some wisdom and have some input and some insight into what you're doing they also helped me on sometimes on sermon illustrations and stories and they would go Dad don't don't say that one like that and why they go well here's what that means to our generation when you when you say that I get what you're saying but most people our age we react to that okay well help me how do I say that you know the point I'm trying to make how do I say that in a way that connects with you guys and and they and I think that when I prepare sermons when I preach here for many years uh I sent out a message of where I'll be and it's usually one o'clock at Coffee Bean on High Street on Saturdays and then people who are preaching around Metro Manila will show up and we'll talk about the sermon it's usually young people it's it's usually people in their 20s and 30s and for years I'll sit with them and go how are you making that point here's what I'm doing and then they'll look and and help me and go Pastor Steve when you want to make that point and you say that here's what we hear and they help me communicate in a way that I know how to communicate to my generation but they help me multi and we're building a multi-generational church when I preach in the states I'm in a multi-ethnic church in the states we're a very unique Church in Nashville Tennessee we're about 50 black about 40 percent white and about 10 percent none of the above okay Asians and Latinos and people who really aren't sure what they are and so when I preach there I will always sit down with some of the black guys and go okay here's my topic or something help me connect uh if I say this this way and and it's helped me it's been a tremendous help because I will get here it's multi-generational in the Philippines in the back of the states we're building multi-ethnic um and so I need help as someone who's lived most of my life in Asia I was so out of touch with the black white American issues that I didn't know how to communicate some of those because it just has it's not the world I lived in for most of my life so I'm almost like a foreigner sometimes preaching to those topics and I've had to get them to help me so anyway I think listening sometimes it's your kids sometimes it's younger people so all right next one anybody else okay foreign how do you lead or how do you correct people older than you okay good question uh it obviously depends on the relationship um I think there's this idea of making an appeal it's not correcting so much but it's appealing you know asking people to consider and I don't know that it's that much different than correcting people or peers or you're following um I think it's asking people to consider I think there's a there's an idea in Paul's writings there are times a few times when Paul would use the word command I command you to do this or that but many times he would say I would appeal to you to consider this and if you go if you study Paul's Epistles you'll find that idea of appealing would you I want to appeal to your conscience to think about this in this way and would you consider rethinking that so I think there's a way to make an appeal to people who it's not an age thing I know In some cultures it is where anybody who's a month older than you then there's an authority thing but I think in the kingdom of God there is a it's not as much as an age thing as a generational thing and sometimes a hierarchical thing and so there I think as a leader we want to keep an open line where people can talk to us but I think if we're um trying to peel up I think there is uh it's not a correcting because that's not my responsibility um it's ultimately gods and other peoples and so I think all of us will have leaders in Our Lives who we're all we're all Fallen we're all fallible none of us are perfect we're all As Leaders we all make plenty of mistakes and so I want to be gracious to the leaders in my life as much as I want the people who are following my leadership to be gracious to me if I'm demanding in the leaders above me and every time they make a mistake or have a character deficiency I'm railing and being judgmental and all that then the people who are following my leadership every time they see my gaps and my flaws and my faults they're going to be like that too and so I think we've there's a there's a spiritual principle of you know if we're sowing graciousness we'll reap it and uh but there's a respectful way to talk up the chain of command so good question I don't know if I can really answer that other than Ramble On like that so okay um ask Pastor Nixon he'll explain it all right any next anybody else okay there's a mic right behind you sorry this is not a question but I would like to say that that listening is a manifestation of respect in all culture my professor in her in this dissertation has got this in all culture listening is respect great good okay anybody else Okay jump up to that mic Wayne where are you from Cebu all right yeah um I have a question it's like it's about the team I mean the smaller the team the smaller the problem but the bigger the team the bigger the problem also true yeah so how do you handle conflicts but to maintain the relationship with you which uh with the team like for example there's a decisions and you know there's always an argument and how do you handle the relationship just to maintain the good relationship with each other good good question and that is true the larger the team the more potential conflicts and problems but I think it goes back to in the context of everything I said that you have to lead your team and if you're on a team you have to recognize someone is leading it and all voices are not created equal I'm willing to hear all voices but they don't all have equal weight and so there are times on the team a lot of times because we're trying to build let me let me go to the way our team works in the states okay I'm on a lot of different teams some of them I lead some of them I'm not I'm a part of when I'm in the states we have our North America leadership team it's led by Pastor Brett Fuller from our church in Washington D.C and um I'm a part of the team there are 10 of us on that team and then we have another group of about 10 more leaders who are not a part of the team but it's sort of an intern thing where we're raising up these next Generation so sometimes in our meetings they're in the meeting but they're not on the table we make it clear to them you're here to be mentored and to learn and we will let you know when we want you to be a part of the discussion okay and so you're here to but then there are other times when we want their voice but even in those cases there's a place for their voice but as a leader you know not all voices have the equal amount of wisdom and weight and Authority every now and then there will be a Nick uran who From The Bottom Rung comes up with a great idea and we need a culture to hear it but most of the time that doesn't mean that suddenly coach Kerr is deferring to Nick uran on every decision it's probably a once in a lifetime moment but the culture allowed it he will still have his two or three people who are his main confidants and that's where most of the decisions are made and so it's not a free-for-all so I think to avoid the conflicts as a team works together and grows you lead the team and if you're on a team you have to recognize who the leader is and that leader can either open it up for your voice or not and when it's not open there's a reason and you need to respect that when your voice is invited into that and it's not agreed upon what you want you have to be respectful of that so I think you've got to a team has to be led and every part of that team needs to understand and respect the one leading the team um and I think a lot of conflicts happen when we think it's just a free-for-all in the team or when our idea is not accepted and then we take it personally and with the thin skin and all that so I do think there's a place for rigorous debate and and I appreciate our team with Pastor Brett there are a lot of strong leaders and voices on that and Brett will open up a decision and and it's a rigorous I mean a fight for and then when Brett finally okay discussions over here's what we're going to do it's he has to make that decision and when he says the debate's over the debate's over and even if I was just arguing the opposite side with Russ Austin now Brett's made the decision he got all the input case closed now we're all behind it once it's decided it's over I'm not going to go yeah I didn't really agree with that but you know that was stupid I'm gonna do this no once the decision is made the team walks out in unity I think as a leader that's how you have to run your team and if somebody's not willing to do that then I won't have them on my team they will not be on my team for long I'm leading a team we get there we're do we do this or that with this building right here when we went into this and our team decided we're going to do it now I know from experience once you start building a building the budget starts growing so here's what we did we decide I said guys when we built the other building over there we didn't put a cap on it it cost a lot less than this one but it just things change and prices went up and it just now on this one here's what we did I said I don't want to do that so we're going to decide what is our maximum we're spending on this building now Joey's maximum was here um mine was the lowest Dre was here June was here Manny was here um ferdi was here and we couldn't come to agreement um and so here's what we decided to do we're all going to go pray we all agreed we needed a cap this is it this is all we're spending and if all that gets us is a shell and no windows that's it okay that's why we have one whole empty floor up there okay you know there's a there's a floor that there's nothing you walk in it's just cement there's no there's nothing there's no floor there are no walls there's no air conditioning there's nothing it's empty one day we'll fix it so we s what we did I said here's here's what I suggested we do and everybody agreed pray come back with a number this doesn't sound very spiritual okay this is how we got agreement and our team had five people come back everybody put the number down and we will average those numbers and that's what we'll spend on this building Joey's number was double mine he's got a lot more faith or Insanity I don't know which one sometimes maybe I had unbelief but mine was here Joey's was here everybody was in the middle we got him we got a calculator out we added up boom there's our price everybody shook hands agreed nobody complained that was it and that's how much we spent on this building so we went to the architect and said this is what we didn't have the money we still had no money but the Architects didn't know that here's how much our budget is what can we get for this so they started telling us we're going no no we need this and okay well how can we change well let's get a cheaper this or cheaper that or what can we so we started working with the Architects and engineers and this is what we drew a line that's it and then we worked with them instead of letting that budget swell out of control this was it and then we all put our faith together believe God and God came through and we paid cash we're by the time we finished the last few things the rest of the money will come in and it was amazing ride and God did it but that was how we came to Unity and Joey didn't walk out going to all those people we agreed but they don't have any faith and the unbelief and Steve has doubt and you know didn't have enough Faith to believe for more and no we all walked out in agreement with honor and nobody complaining we walked out in unity and put our faith together and believed it and so there are a lot of different ways to bring Unity but it's the job of the team leader to bring Unity however you do it and I love rigorous debate but at some point the leader has to end the debate make a decision and move forward altogether you can't let the but if you have people on the team who debate and debate and they get their feelings hurt well they don't get their way they either change or they're not on my team anymore I can't have that on my team I have to have people who can debate and not take it personally when their opinion doesn't get accepted and then they get behind what they just disagreed with and they get 100 behind it and they don't bring disunity [Music]