introduction & notes
I wanted to share my experience with Sinder and Red manipulating me, using me, and dragging me into drama, while sabotaging, slandering & spreading lies about people I thought were her closest friends. Not only do I no longer wish to work with Sinder, but I want to share what I’ve endured over the years & shed light on what she has been doing behind people’s backs to protect artists and friends that may be experiencing something similar.
I struggled a lot with writing this document and wasn’t sure if what I felt and experienced working was real or just burnout but I think this proves that I was lied to and manipulated over the course of years while working with Sinder.
Note: Based on working with Redacted (Red, Sinder’s manager) and Sinder over the years that I am sure they speak for each other and there is no reason to believe Red was acting without Sinder's consent and knowledge. Whenever I use “they” or “them” it refers to both of them acting as a team.
English not being my first language and the language barrier, I discussed the situation, my feelings & thoughts with native English speakers who helped me put them into words so everything is clear without any misunderstandings due to lack of English skills!
Note: Any names that are censored here were censored because the creator in question did not provide consent to have their name revealed by the time of me posting this document.
slandering other creators
I will start with screenshots showing them speaking ill of other creators & spreading rumors while manipulating me that it’s all in our best interest. In addition to spreading ill rumors they also complain and accuse Bao of giving “their” editor too much work, resulting in the editor not having any time for new clients which will be important later on. The screenshots below show them showing their affection & appreciation immediately followed by spreading rumors & lies to make other clients appear problematic to manipulate any future decisions regarding commissions.
Red asked me to cancel on one of their closest friends (Bao) by asking me to cancel my work mid progress, manipulating me into thinking it is okay since “she has many connections” and she’ll be fine anyway so I wouldn’t feel guilty about it or worry too much. It was and is upsetting to me that Red contacted me specifically to check on me cancelling the model I had planned with Bao.
exclusivity & blacklisting other creators
In the messages below they mentioned wanting an exclusivity contract, but they didn’t want to pay for exclusivity,but rather when a creator from their blacklist comes asking for a commission, they would guarantee me model work for Sinder only and if anyone asked me for commissions they’d commission me instead to compensate for not working with other creators. This felt very strange given that one of the accusations they made was overworking their editor yet their “solution” to me working with other creators was for them to essentially overwork me to keep me from working on other projects.
The messages below show that their primary concern is that the more non Sinder models I make, the less “valuable” my existing models become. It’s hard to say how much this messed with my mind as an artist that by working with other people I’m somehow making my existing models less special.
Following screenshot is of them setting up the blacklist, saying I am not allowed to work with any new clients or create any new outfits for (Vtuber 1) specifically & justifying those things by saying that with each model, my art becomes less unique & special and therefore Sinder somehow will become less special. (Screenshot below)
The idea that my work as an artist and designer is devalued by working with other people is insane and hurtful. After realizing what taking a deal with them would really mean for both my workload and my mental health I backed out.
Another example of speaking ill of other creators right after they saw I was working with Shylily, trying to once again make the idea of working with other clients seem like I am setting myself up with problematic people who will do me no good in the long run to get me to reconsider working with them. They also continuously kept asking about my other clients' plans which for them “made the antenna go up”and immediately went into slandering Lily. They consistently try to reassure me that despite their best efforts, they just happen to keep trying to bring drama in as reasons for me to go exclusive and that working only with Sinder is them trying to look out for me.
The idea that they need to “stay informed” & “gauge the competition” is extremely upsetting and toxic to me. The “competition” they’re referring to are people I thought they considered friends, who always helped, supported, and platformed Sinder. When I pushed back the immediate response was blaming the other creators and implying that they “initiated” it by trying to work with me and that somehow justified their actions. They imply Lily ignored Sinder when she spent over a minute thanking the raid which you can see in this clip.
Below I wanted to push back and make clear I was uncomfortable on being dragged into drama and they responded by bringing up more drama & baseless claims all while trying to guilt trip me. It is ironic and crazy to me that I mention not wanting to be dragged into personal issues only for them to on multiple occasions mention other peoples alleged drama.
Justifying their behavior by stating that they are simply looking out for me (when none of this has anything to do with me to begin with) and manipulating me into being grateful for earning well thanks to them despite the loss of work from long time returning clients & new clients.
concerning my work & models as a team
Another example of going after other clients of mine from before, claiming that having more clients alongside them makes my work less special with the recurrence of “it’s just business”. Manipulating me into believing that working with her is special for multiple reasons and that I risk losing that special something as a client if I “prefer” to work with others. No acknowledgement of my reasoning & need of working with other clients due to the nature of my work. Solely focused on their issues.
I would also like to note again that this screenshot is one of many occasions that indicate that Red speaks on Sinders behalf. I was originally concerned with everything going through Red, that it may not have been 100% of Sinder’s feelings or wants. I messaged her about it to make sure that he spoke on her behalf and confirmed with both of them this was the case.
Red tries to make it look like they never meant for it to appear like they wanted me to be exclusive by framing it as something I wanted while immediately doubling down on the fact that me working with more people makes my work less “special” and no longer unique, as if every design is just a Sinder clone.
it’s simply business
Normalizing their behavior once again by stating that this it’s simply “business” to sabotage other vtuber’s careers & not work with them & focus on Sinder instead.
damage control
Making sure none of this reaches the other vtubers & is all kept hush hush, while also providing proof that they know what they do is ill intended & should not get out, as it would cause issues for Sinder’s career to be painted in this light. Note that the uncalled shot at (Vtuber 1) is even spoilered (a hidden message in discord) so it wouldn’t accidentally be leaked.
The constant obsession with (Vtuber 1) & claiming that she is asking for it by causing this “unspoken competition” which is coming from absolutely no other source than Sinder herself.
I’d like to highlight the irony of expecting to be entitled to recognition for her own efforts & size when her own active efforts are tied to sabotaging this very same vtuber. Also feeling entitled & insisting to be recognized by someone else is odd.
Thanks for taking the time to read through everything! I hope everything makes sense & everyone who has been hurt, manipulated or sabotaged by her will find closure.