Transcript for:
Are Christians Under the Law?

[Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] m all right welcome everybody to standing for truth my name is Donnie binsky and I am your host and moderator for tonight's exciting debate on the question are Christians under the law and I am thrilled to have Sean Griffin and Joshua here to engage this important question gentlemen it's certainly not your first time here on the standing for truth debate platform nor is it your first debate and so you both have had many which means this will be a debate to remember I'm excited to see what you're both going to uh bring to the table in terms of points and Arguments for tonight's debate topic and so if we could let's get acquainted get to know you guys a little bit break the ice before the debate and the fun starts and so Sean let's start with you Sean if I remember correctly your last time here was was for your great James 2 debate with Bob wilin excellent debate tons of fun there and so Sean how have you been since then and also if you could tell us a little bit about yourself and your ministry sure yeah thanks for having me again Donnie um since Dr BR woken has been you know been great just helping around the house with my new little child he's seven months old now and his name is Levi proud father um and a loving husband and we just fulltime at doing this thing about trying to get the word of Christ out and trying to get the scriptures out with context that's our hearts um I very quick thing about me we have had our channel for six years I gave my heart to Christ July 17th 1997 been studying the Bible ever since got to a point where I was getting conflicting answers from pastors when I was trying to ask questions about the Bible and so I started to realize that they were applying a very specific harmu from their Association or their Seminary as opposed to just the basic reading comprehension we all implore with every other book and every other piece of literature in life which is to Define our terms and look for context and so this is where we came up with Kingdom and context we feel like the kingdom of God and that message is the central message of Christ and all the prophets and the law of God is the constitution of the kingdom and so we do talk about that on our Channel a lot so thanks for having me again Donnie thank you for giving us your time Sean appreciate that introduction here's a link to your YouTube channel and also did you want to give a quick rundown for today if I'm not mistaken this is kind of preliminary as we're we're testing it out today's debate.com questionnaire and so the audience can uh interact with this and vote is that right Sean yeah at Tob today debate.com you can go to the live debates and this this card this debate tonight is one of the live debates that you can vote on and um there's different voting indicators for each segments and so it's just a beta we're we're still testing this site um but this is uh we think it'd be pretty fun something that keep keeps the audience engaged and and uh that way they can share their opinion on each each segment of the debate that's right it makes it that much more uh fun for the audience to be able to engage and interact with the debate in real time so I do encourage people to check that out here in the live chat and uh we'll make sure that the link is readily available for people to to click so Sean appreciate that Joshua great to have you back as well like Sean it's not your first time here on the standing for truth debate platform and your last debate if I remember correctly here was with David Preston on the Rich Young Ruler and that was an excellent debate as well I really enjoyed that uh informative debate for sure so Josh how have you been since then and tell us a little bit about yourself yeah I have to say that was my favorite debate so far and I'm open to debate it again but yes my name is Joshua P I live here in Columbia City Indiana great Midwest I have a wonderful wife that I've been married to now for almost three years and two wonderful boys that I'm thankful to have um I'm not a scholar or anything uh anything like that I'm just a guy who just loves to talk about God in his word uh especially people who uh disagree with me I find it enjoyable it's challenging and it pushes me further to study God's word and know the truth and so thank you Sean for agreeing to this debate and thank you Donnie for this platform and the privilege to be able to come on here and have these discussions hey it's my pleasure it's why we host so many debates on so many important topics as what it does is it helps us to get out of our theological Echo Chambers puts us into the debate octagon or the debate Dojo to interact and engage with these ideas in a professional manner and so Sean and Joshua I appreciate you both giving us your time for yet another debate Joshua you don't have a Channel but we do have uh previous debates for people to check out if they want to see more from you so okay appreciate the introductions and again to anybody who is just joining us as we're doing this live tonight's debate question is our Christians under the law Shan Griffin versus Joshua pedit and format wise okay let's cover the format we got a comprehensive one for everyone tonight we're going to be starting off with a 20 minute opening state from the affirmative Sean taking the affirmative tonight then we're going to jump right into a 10-minute fast-paced cross exam so Joshua is going to be Leading The Way with that right after the first opening statement then the negative side which is Joshua will give a 20 minute opening statement and then we'll throw it right to Sean to lead the way in 10 minutes of cross exam then we'll get into rebuttal so 10 minutes each for a rebuttal and then roughly a 20 minute open discussion so we're kind of getting the Best of Both Worlds tonight a little bit across and then for the 20 minute open discussion it'll be more free flowing uh flowing and organic then we're gonna have five minute closing statements and then this is where we get you guys in the audience involved we have somewhere between a 30 and 45 minute audience Q&A so please if you do have a question let me know who the questions for that way I don't miss it and then also let's do our best to uh keep it on top and tag me either standing for truuth or Donnie and okay let's get right into our first 20 minute opening statement which goes to you Sean if you'd like me to I do see your slides up and ready to go and so we'll get that up on the screen please let me know when you're ready Sean I'll start your timer yep I'm ready okay go ahead all right thanks for having me again I just want to start off by saying are we under under the law of God um as Christians I think it it would behoove us to Define who Christ is that we disciple after so let's uh look at him real quick Isaiah 11 talks about he's the root of Jesse that's David's father he's the banner the Nations will seek him this is some of the prophecies about Christ Romans 15 Paul repeats some of these things expressing that in multiple places in the Isaiah Jeremiah and other places that this uh wonderful prophecy about Christ that he will not only is he the root of Jesse but all he will rise to rule over the Nations they're all going to put their hope in him um they will praise him and they will rejoice in his name and that um that's something to remember again Revelation 55 it clarifies behold the line of the tribe of Judah the root of David so our Messiah King our Lord and our God is actually from the tribe of Judah which is the tribe one of the tribes of Israel and so Micah 52 both you Bethlehem e FR who are small among the clans of Judah out of you will come forth for me one to be rulle over Israel so our King and by the way it also says his days are from old from eternity we're going to talk about that as well but our King our Lord our Messiah Redeemer our Christ he's actually from the clan of Judah that's where he was born through the womb of Mary and he is the would be the ruler over Israel and All Nations I think it's a beautiful description of him Isaiah 42 the same thing he's called the servant the elect one also translated as the chosen one sometimes and this is in whom the father Soul Delights in him he put his Spirit on him he'll bring Justice to the Nations Justice is defined by God's law we'll go over that in a little bit and as you see at the end end of here verse four Christ will establish justice on the earth and his law the islands will put their hope and we will Express how this is the law of his father not a new arbitrary law um that the Catholic church and early church fathers tried to talk about the law of Christ which was never defined or expressed so we're we're going to go into that in great detail Jeremiah 33:1 14-16 um again he's called a righteous Branch springing out of David who's going to administer righteousness and Justice in the city of God which is going to be called the place where the Lord is Lord our righteousness that word righteousness is has a meaning and that's right Behavior the father's righteousness is whom Christ presented to us and in whom we disciple after John chapter 36-18 we know that this is the Son of God for this is the word of the prophets as well as the apostles this was the testimony of his life on Earth that and his name that word means Authority that in the name that is given to the son that Authority is from his father because he is the Son of God Proverbs 33 before we've seen Old Testament they even understood that he was the son of God as well um there's some edited manuscripts over time we we have record of that in history where the Pharisees try to actually redact things to hide prophecies about Christ I'm going to go over that here shortly um but this is we have still left over small indicators that the prophets all the prophets knew that they were to put their hope in the coming one the elect one the Holy One of Israel and this is even the psalmist 16:10 as repeated in Acts chapter 2 by Peter he called calls him the Holy One of Israel which is we understand why he did not see Decay is because he was resurrected after 3 days Psalm 1 1-4 Christ who is Jesus he is the one that is was prophesied to sit at the right hand of the father that's the place of an actual priest the high priest which is why in verse four the father swears to him he'll be a high priest forever a priest is someone who administers the law of God in his Temple so you you can't Minister the law of Baal or moac you have to administer the law of God now what's interesting about pm11 1 through verse three is that in the SE agent it actually expresses to you something that irus confirms in his writings that it it prophesies or expresses that before the Morning Star Yahweh beget this one who's prophesied to become the high priest so this is very interesting um this is arus attributes this prophecy to David we go on here we see more early church fathers expressing who they knew God was and how they in their day they had a version of the septu agent which we do not have still today but they have it we have it recorded in their writings the septu agent they had in their hands that day had Prophecies of Christ we don't have today this one arus attributes to Jeremiah and it's a it's only the parallel to this which doesn't have the fullness of this quote is found in first baroo which most Catholic Bibles still have but it says that this is the book of The Commandments of God the law which endures forever all that hold fast to it or point to life but such as shall leave it and so this is where it talks about the God who is our god um who gave his knowledge to Jacob and he appeared on the earth and was conversant with men Yus also claims that in his septu agent Jeremiah had a small phrase said blessed is he who was before he became a man perfectly lines up with John 173 and many other passages so it's interesting here that um aronas attributes the passage there's some he claims there's some pieces missing from our modern day Isaiah 50:8 that was in his septu agent specifically a phrase let him draw near to the Lord's son if you read it in the modern day septu and metic it's redacted and it says let him draw near to the lordus claims in his day the septu agent actually specifically spoke about draw near to the Son of God Justin Martyr also attributes to Ezra that they refer to that Ezra had a quote that the Passover is our savior and refuge this lines up with 1 Corinthians 5:7 if you've understood and your heart is taken this in that we shall humble him on a standard and thereafter hope in him propes sign about his gruesome horrific death on the cross then this shall not be forsaken forever says the god of hosts but if you will not believe in him and will not listen to his declaration you shall be a laughing stock to the Nations Justin Martyr is quoting this from Ezra from the writings of Ezra that we no longer have anymore and this Ezra was the 6th Century b or fifth century BC uh high priest of Israel prophesying about Christ specifically being crucified and his own Nation rejecting him so who is Jesus to the disciples Jesus said to them truly I tell you the renew of all things when the son of man sits on his own glorious Throne you who have followed me will also sit on 12 Thrones judging the tribes of Israel so the king of Israel is going to appoint those who have followed him as places of judgment over the 12 tribes of Israel arise and stand up behold the number of those that are sealed in the Feast of the Lord as the book of Ezra second Ezra chapter 2 goes on to explain they received glorious garments of the Lord that's a signifier of the Resurrection take your number Zion and shut up those of yours that are clothed in white which have fulfilled the law of the Lord so now we're The Inheritance which is Zion equated to the Feast of the Lord equated to the resurrection those who get their glorified ribs of white is also equated to those who fulfill the law of the Lord again second ezas chapter 2 goes on to explain that these are they who put off the Mortal clothing and put on Immortal and have confessed the name of God now they're crowned and received Palms this is what we see happening in Revelation as well and in this Vision Ezra is asking the angel who is this that's giving these people their crowns and palms and it's determined that it's the Son of God whom they confessed in the world so even in the days of Ezra he was giving prophecies and Visions about the coming Christ as well as Christ and his part in the resurrection and and the qualifiers of those who take part in the resurrection Revelation 34 and 5 we have this parallel with Christ talking about those who are worthy that's there's a definition for worthiness in scripture as he says in Luke Chapter 20 it's those who do the Commandments of God being worthless are those who rebel against God's Commandments they will walk with me in white that's the resurrection he will not blot their name out of The Book of Life That's the resur Resurrection he'll confess his name before the father and Angels that's the resurrection Revelation 3:12 Christ is our high priest as prophesied in Psalm 110 in the temple of his God in the New Jerusalem so once we see the New Jerusalem being described in Revelation 21 9-12 we see it's called The Bride the wife the lamb it's coming it's great Mountain High coming down the holy city of Jerusalem Out of Heaven from God and the city had great and high wall with 12 gates inscribed with the names of the 12 tribes of Israel there is no Gentile gate on the New Jerusalem you're grafted into the family of God he's the root we're grafted in we the unnatural branches that are grafted in to the root there is no Gentile gate blessed are they that do his Commandments that they may have the right to the tree of life and may enter into this gate into the cities you have to do the Commandments of God to get to The Inheritance which is the New Jerusalem which is where you get your eternal life and your robe of white which is where you get access to the tree of life so what did Jesus practice because I'm his disciple Matthew 56:10 blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteous they'll be filled Christ practiced righteousness even to the point of going and get baptized by John the Baptist as he says to fulfill all righteousness again it says blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness for theirs the kingdom of heaven so now Christ is equating your right Behavior which is the definition of righteousness to the kingdom of heaven Matthew 5:1 17-20 Christ tells you do not think he came to abolish the law and the prophets so anyone listening do not think this Christ is telling you what to think but he did not come to abolish them but to fulfill them now this word fulfill is this word ples which means to do to accomplish to fully preach and this is exactly what he does throughout his entire life and Ministry even in after his resurrection into eternity and today he's fully preaching the law and the prophets because if like he says in multiple places if you don't believe the law and the prophets you won't believe him for he tells you until Heaven and Earth pass away not a single jot not a stroke of the pen will disappear from the law until everything's accomplished your read in Isaiah 42 and other places Micah that he'll be the Light of the Nations the hope of the Nations Paul repeats this in Romans 15 we see that he's going to be the Passover that draws all nations in at the resurrection all these things have not been accomplished yet all nations are not serving Christ the first resurrection has not happened none of us listening who are believers in Christ have our Robes of white yet his kingdom has not come down on the earth the New Jerusalem has not come down out of Heaven none of these things have been accomplished yet he did not come to abolish any of this and not one single Jud stroke of a pen has has disappeared from the law now what's interesting about verse 19 and 20 is he actually goes on to say whoever practices and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven and then he says unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees you'll never enter the kingdom of heaven so now he's trying because he goes on to you know thoroughly reprove the Pharisees for their false sense of righteousness because they were had their traditions of men elevated above the actual Commandments of God he reprimands them for this heavily in Mark chapter 6 Mark 7: 6 through1 he tells them they've made made null the the Commandments of God for their own Traditions um and so this is what he's referencing here their righteousness was poor was gross they had Traditions which is not true righteousness of God and he's saying you have to practice and teach all all these things to be called great in the kingdom of God that's the law of God and the prophets then your righteousness can exceed that of the Pharisees again Matthew 6:33 Christ tells us to seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness that means God's right Behavior the way God does things which he expressed Israel in his law in Psalm 1037 he tells us I gave my ways that's my moral behavior and character he said I gave my ways to Israel and this is what we are to disciple after Matthew 9:12 through1 13 Christ says it is not the healthy who need a doctor but the sick but go and learn what this means and this is what I'd hope everyone listening tonight would actually go and learn what this means I'm going to tell you what it means but continue to study this out because this is the simple the Simplicity of are we doing what's right or are we doing what's wrong he says I desire Mercy not sacrifice this Greek word for Mercy is elos which is uh we're going to break that down not sacrificed this is him quoting Hosea 66 says for I've not come to call the righteous but sinners now the only part of Hosea 66 he's quoting is this small phrase which says I desire Mercy not sacrifice and then he goes on to explain more about what he said previously which is the healthy don't need a doctor only the sick do I've not come to call the righteous but the Sinners the Sinners equate to the sick the righteous equate to the health healthy this phrase in Hosea 66 is actually this Greek word alos is defined over 170 times in the Old Testament septu agent as Mercy specifically applied in Covenant loyalty so it's also considered kindness Compassion Care but it's not about how you treat one another it's about your disposition to God how you treat God he want God wants you to be merciful to him with kindness compassion and care which is why he says in all of his Commandments be careful to follow everything I've instructed you this is repeat throughout Deuteronomy multiple times he says it over and over and over again be careful to do everything I say so the context of Hosea 66 is actually 4 through6 where he's representing ephra and Judah northern and southern houses for their disloyalty to the Covenant for their rebelliousness he says what shall I do with you Ephraim what shall I do with you Judah for your loyalty is like a Morning Mist the early du that vanishes he goes on to say I desire Mercy that's Covenant loyalty by definition of the word in Greek not sacrifice he desires the knowledge of God that's obedience to him rather than the burnt offerings because what the problem was in hosea's day was that they were duplicitous they were not they were worshiping ba MCH and asaroth in addition to try to go and worship at the Temple of Yahweh they were became polytheists they were duplic they were whing themselves as Jeremiah calls it and this is something that that Yahweh didn't like he's like look just because you come in and offer sacrifices to me doesn't mean squat I want loyal loyalty to me they were not given it to him in those days that's why Christ would say go and learn what this means it's not the healthy who need a doctor it's the sick go and learn he desires Covenant loyalty not just wrot uh behaviors thinking you're doing that the Customs that are required he desires Covenant loyalty this is keeping the Commandments of God again Micah 7:20 you'll give truth to Jacob and mercy to Abraham that Greek word in the septu agent translated the same way it's the mercy to Abraham this the Covenant loyalty that he's always promised Abraham Isaac and Jacob for their faithfulness Luke 1 68-75 Zechariah as he's uh prophesying he got his voice back he can speak and he goes with exuberance to to prophesy over his unborn son he speaks about the Horn of Salvation In The House of the servant David prophecy of Christ to show Mercy to our fathers to remember His Holy Covenant again using the same Greek word mercy connected to loyalty to the Covenant specifically right here and what's the purpose of all this what is the purpose of this Horn of Salvation that would bring Salvation to them as a response from Yahweh to the people of showing Covenant loyalty the people from this Covenant is that we may serve him without fear and Holiness that's being set apart it's Holiness is defined in all all throughout Leviticus it's all the ways of Yahweh and righteousness before him all our days righteousness right Behavior the behavior of of God Matthew 23 1-3 Christ directly taught us the scribes and the Pharisees sit in moses' seat that's the seat of teaching practice and observe everything they tell you but do not do what they do for they do not practice what they preach they're Hypocrites Jesus replied um again this is what it's it's fitting for them to fulfill all righteousness and so that's what they do when he gets baptized with John the Baptist very important Christ taught us that a disciple is not above his teacher everyone who's fully trained will be like his teacher I'm trying to be trained after Christ he's my he's my master my Lord my savior my God I want to disciple after him I'm going to do the behavior of Christ which are the Commandments of God so what did Jesus instruct us as his disciples I'm sorry I think there's a a glitch here let me scoot through some of these that happened all right did Jesus tell us that he was going to put a new law on us because he issued in the New Covenant because the New Covenant itself tells us that the law is God's law that he's going to put on our hearts and Minds it's not new Ezekiel 3626 through 27 this new spirit that is put within you causes you to walk in his statutes and carefully observe my ordinances remember with that word carefully right to carefully observe his ordinances ordinances are more than just the general Commandments of God ordinances are specifically the Feast of God habac 2:4 this is why an Old Testament Prophet is espousing that those who are not proud those who are upright that means you have right Behavior righteous the righteous will live by faith because faith is not just a word that's a moment in time gift from God it's a lifestyle of faithfulness it's faithfulness it's Covenant faithfulness this is what faith means it's expressed in your behavior it's not lip service this is why even the Old Testament habac Prophet knew this as well Matthew 19 Christ teaches us that if we want eternal life we must keep the Commandments very simple Matthew 28 after his resurrection when he instructs his disciples to go to the Nations that's people that's not of Israel he tells them to teach them that all that I've commanded you so I just want to stress this lovingly he tells them to teach them to obey all that he commanded them not some new arbitrary law of Christ all that he had commanded so everything all the law and the prophets that he exemplified and walked out in his ministry in his career everything he taught his disciples he then tells him after his resurrection go to all the nations and teach them to obey all that I've commanded you he says this teach them to obey all that I've commanded you it's it's that simple teaching them to obey all that I've commanded not some not part not a new law for Gentiles teaching them to obey all that I've commanded you so what did Paul teach did he something different this is a big point of contention a lot of Christian communities Romans 3 Paul tells you that God is the god of Jews and Gentiles both and that we do not nullify the law by this faith and said certainly not we uphold the law Romans 71 Paul tells us do you not know Brothers for I'm speaking to those who know the law that the law has authority over man as long as he lives simply put Romans 86-10 Paul breaks down this idea the mind of the flesh is hostile to God it does not submit to God's law nor can it do so I don't want to be hostile to God I don't want to be in the flesh I want to be walking in the spirit which means I will submit to God's law if Paul says if I'm In the Flesh I will not submit to God's law I don't want to be like that I want to be friendly with God not hostile to him I want to be walking in the spirit I want to be controlled by the spirit of God which lives in me so therefore I will submit myself to God's law it's for my training and instruction and righteousness and he goes on to say' but if Christ is in you your body is dead because of sin yet your your spirit is alive because of righteousness because of right Behavior that's the living works that you get to accomplish in obedience expecting Christ to save you at the resurrection this is the Covenant promise you disciple after Christ he raises you from the dead otherwise you have dead works of sin and rebelliousness Galatians 3 says for all have you been babed in and clothe yourself with Christ you've put on Christ how do you put on Christ a disciple who's fully trained is like his master 1 Corinthians 11 1-2 God Christ excuse me Paul says be imitators of me as I am also of Christ Paul did exactly what Christ did Christ followed his father's law John 7:16 didn't deviate told his disciples to teach all the N to teach the Nations they go out to all that he had commanded them Christ is the same yesterday today and forever Romans 138-10 Paul goes on to expound about the law in reference to loving your neighbor don't commit adultery don't murder don't steal don't covet don't do and any other commandment are summed up in love your neighbor as you love yourself love does no wrong to its neighbor therefore love is fulfillment of the law he's not negating obedience and learning of God's actual ways and character which is the law of God he's actually telling you this is just the summary of it guys love is a summary of it and if this is this is how you know you're walking in it because Leviticus 1917 and18 to love your neighbors yourself is part of the law of God he's just teaching directly from the law of God in Romans 1 Timothy 1 8-10 what how's my time looking you got about to I'm not sure if you saw the the time warnings at the bottom of the screen Sean I would say start wrapping it up in under 20 seconds okay very quickly Paul is telling Timothy all these things which are consistent with sound Doctrine I've got the citations if you want to pause the screen this is this is him basically telling you that all these things he's teaching him that are consistent with sound Doctrine is the law is good if it's done lawfully and he's teaching Timothy that'll be a good pastor same thing with the Jerusalem Council they he've got the citations here from exus drumman Leviticus they go and tell the new converts these are the main four things from the law of God they need to start doing first they'll re they'll here the rest every synagogue in the at the Sabbath um there's I'll just stop there that's a good stop that's a good stopping place okay okay Sean thank you very much for that roughly 20 minute opening statement I appreciate the the visuals and also to the audience reminder we are going to be having an audience Q&A once we're done with the main debate portion here so please if you got a question challenge objection make sure you are uh sending those in okay gentlemen we're jumping right into a 10-minute cross exam so Joshua you get to lead the way for 10 minutes and and I am going to start the timer on your first question go ahead all right we may get through this before 10 minutes but uh and everything that uh all the questions that I asked probably were not from well everything that you said here in this debate but uh I'm based them off from previous debates that I've seen that you did and oh you didn't you didn't take notes on what I just said a little bit it was a little hard to follow for me personally some of the stuff I I got but uh but I'll start with this number one it's a four part question have you received Christ as your lord and savior yes all right good that's good to hear as a believer in Christ do you believe you are baptized with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit yes it's called the deposit okay as a believer in Christ then who is indwelled with the Holy Spirit would you then say that you are led by the spirit yes because I do I submit myself to God's law As Romans 8 says okay all right and then last of this part of this question as a believer in Christ then who is baptized with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and is therefore led by the the spirit why do you believe and teach we are under the law when Galatians 5:18 say States but if you be led of the spirit you are not under the law the context of Galatians is dealing with the law of circumcision that the Pharisees pushed this is why in chapter two he says I'm no longer uh part of the party of circumcision or I think it's actually Galatians 1:19 so you have to understand the context of Galatians is about him battling the party of circumcision not the law of God so in first century Judaism they had something called works of the law which was physic and I have a quote for you later from irus who confirms this it's physic instruction they superseded God's law and added their own Traditions onto it and that's why he tells them in Galatians 31 that they were Bewitched because they were following a different gospel that Pharisees had come in and told these people you have to be circumcised if you think you're going to be a part of Christ but that's not a requirement in scripture because that was a Pharisee concept imposed onto them in the first century this is why Paul talks about it in Romans 2 through 5 this is why they're talking about it in Acts 15 it's all over the place it's a huge narrative in the first century discussion is that the party of Pharisees the ones in Galatians 613 where he says by the way the same people that want you that want to boast in your flesh they don't actually fall the law themselves Galatians 6:13 okay I do understand that obviously circumcision is mentioned here in Galatians 5 but Paul also mentions walking in the spirit and so forth but he does mention that circumcision of neither circumcision nor uncircumcision Avail to anything meaning it it has no purpose or meaning which por which verse are you reading uh it's obviously chapter five me get to it I kind of lost it are you familiar with the first century um status of circumcised versus non-circumcised uh no I'm not familiar with the history I'm basically just focus on scripture but Galatians 56 for it says for in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any nor uncircumcision but Faith which work by love so he's literally saying that if we are in Jesus Christ which we you know as a Believer we wouldn't be he's in us we are in him it says circumcision nor uncircumcision uh has avails anything which literally means it does nothing it's no value to us do you remember in Romans 2 when Paul addressed circumcision he says someone who's uncircumcised who keeps the law it's as if he is circumcised yeah that's yeah I've read Romans and I I do remember that okay so same author Paul the same guy who Peter and John in Galatians 2 tell Paul to remember the poor which is directly from Deuteronomy 15 okay I the same Paul who's who's a disciple of the least of the disciples under the authority of Peter and John who emphatically teach the law of God as our standard for discipleship also in Galatians is expressing how he's battling the Pharisee party of he calls it the circumcision party and how they want to boast in your flesh so these people this is why it means if you've rejected Christ and you think circumcision guarantees you salvation you've lost the plot you're Fallen a different gospel that was the Gospel of the party of circumcision that's not what the apostles taught so this is the argument of the context of Galatians so this that would be my my full answer to to Galatians oh with respect not to be a dead horse but I agree with what Paul's saying but I disagree with you but to get some more question and I'll move on all right uh number two as a believer in Christ do you believe you are dead to sins according to Romans 62 and 67 which states number verse two says God forbid how shall we that are dead to sin live any longer therein and verse seven says for he that is dead is freed from sin would you say that as a result of a believer in Christ you are freed or dead from sin yeah because I understand what sin is 1 John 32 it's it's transgression of God's law so if I'm going to be and dead to sin that means I'm not doing anymore in the same passage in Romans 6 if you keep reading it says so act as if you're slaves to righteousness because you have to Define your terms what is sin transgression of the law what is righteousness actively doing the law so this is where you have to understand that Paul is emphatically teaching the Same Book of Romans chapter 6 three chapters earlier in verses 29-31 he said this Faith does not negate the law we uphold the law same author three chapters earlier all right with that if you are dead to sin then why do you once again believe that believe and teach you are under the law when Romans 6:14 clearly states for sin shall not have dominion over you for you're not under the law but under grace that's right because if you're dead to sin you're not transgressing anymore it's talking about Behavior this is why he says later act as slaves to righteousness that's a behavior command you're dead to sin you you're you're if you're in sin that means you're transgressing God's law if you're dead to it that means you sto transgressing law now you're obedient to Christ now you're doing righteous ways so of course if you're dead to sin you're not you're no longer committing transgression Rebellion against it's God and you're going to be alive in Christ because you're a slave to righteousness does that make sense yeah that still doesn't um explain how we're not we're no longer under the law when that we are one again seven 17 verses later in Romans 71 he says do you not know Brothers I'm speaking to those who know the law that a that the law applies to a man as long as he's alive so what kind of law in Romans six are you referring to it's in the context of being dead to sin so therefore you become under the law of sin and Punishment the law of death and condemnation which is the penalty for breaking the law that means you're dead in your sins You're Expecting judgment there's no hope of salvation for you because you're now under the penalty of the law but as you move away from that rebellious Behavior accept Christ pattern yourselves after your new master which is someone who followed the law of God it is the embodiment of the word of God then you're no you're now a slave to righteousness you're a bond servant of Christ you're gonna walk in Christ's ways you're G to imitate Paul as Paul imitated Christ okay number three who was the law given to um it well it's given to Israel in specifics it's given to all of mankind as a general expectation Paul expresses this in Romans 2 7-6 uh can you give me um a rough like passage like where does he where does it state that he was given it to all I know Ecclesiastes chapter 12: 13 when Allman heard the conclusion of the matter is this fear God and keep his Commandments because this is the whole duty of mankind okay in Deuteronomy 51-3 we're told and Moses called all Israel and said unto them here oh Israel the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day that he may learn them and keep them and do them the Lord Our God made a covenant with us that's in reference to Israel in horo which is Mount Si the Lord may not this Covenant with our fathers but with us even us who are all of us here alive this day so it sounds like and this isn't the only verse but for sake of time I'm only going to use this one right now that it was only given to the nation of Israel and no one else okay so in Deuteronomy 5 the context of him expressing the Covenant and how this generation at the end of the 30 39 years almost 40 years is they're about to go into the promised land so Deuteronomy is a summary of the last 39 years that context Moses has explained to them this New Covenant that we get to brought into the lamb was not made with our fathers amram the father of Moses did not get that same Covenant uh agreement that his faithfulness and his obedience would allow him to live in this new land outside of Egypt in the land of promise what was called the land of Canaan at the time and be blessed and bountiful that was not given to their fathers the L but we see that it was clearly promised Abraham in Genesis 12:15 and 22 clearly we we even have this repeated in Hebrews chap 11 10-14 because Abraham and Isaac sojourners in a land they did not yet inherit because this was a promise of the Covenant with Yahweh Genesis 265 shows us that Abraham kept the charge of the almighty his statutes ordinances and his commandments so let me ask you this real quick Joshua how can we say that Moses did not have that the first time the law was ever on Earth was with Moses as he expresses in Deuteronomy when Moses in Exodus 18 before the Mount Si moment happens is expressing and teaching the law of God to the people to adjudicate judgment if you like to ask me that in your question and answer I'll be happy it's rhetorical so the idea though the idea is that the only reason they're asking pharaoh to leave the land three days journey to go into the Wilderness with their animals their people so they can go worship at the mountain is because they're going out there to celebrate Shao that's what when they actually get out there that's a part of the law of God it's called Eternal in Leviticus 23 so they already understood what the law of God is they already Moses in Exodus 18 is already doing sacrifices with his father Jethro and Aaron and then he's already adjudicating judgments amongst the people with the law of God there's already priests at the base of Mount Si in Exodus 19 and 20 the law of God is a renewal of the Covenant in Mount Si for the generation that had been in Egypt who had lost their way this is why they were so rebellious for 40 years and Deuteronomy 82 tells you he brought the mountain willness to test them to see what was in their heart so that they could learn his Commandments okay Josh you got time for one last question so Make It Count okay all right when was the Sabbath given and why uh Genesis 2 it's a day hollowed on the 7th day of the week it was the day of rest and it was uh given on the seventh day of creation okay gentlemen appreciate that first roughly 10 minutes of cross exam and so I will reset the timer we have concluded Sean's 20 minute affirmative and then our first 10minute cross exam where you Joshua have led the way so we're now moving into the second opening statement 20 minutes this time the negative side that'll be you Joshua so please whenever you're ready let me know and if you need I'm trying to remember I'm trying to share screen do I push entire screen yes yeah entire screen unless unless you download the slides right in but it sounds like you've got your slide show up and as you're doing that to the audience I am all caught up on your questions we are simoc casting so you can put your question in on either Channel and I can see it here in the streamyard so I'll save those for the Q&A and with that Josh your your slides are up all right awesome Jesus right now we're good I'm ready okay go ahead all right are Christians under the law all right the law of Moses is a system of laws consisting of 613 rules given to the people of Israel through Moses by God and Mount Si out of the 613 rules 365 contained Thou shalt Nots and 248 contained Thou shalt Within These 613 rules some were moral I.E The Ten Commandments some were ceremonial instructions on religious observance worship the structure of the priesthood how sacrifices should be made Etc and some were social instructions on how to run the society the economy how to resolve disputes between neighbors and more these laws were given only to the people of Israel according to Leviticus 2646 and was to govern every aspect of their lives to make them A peculiar treasure a kingdom a priest and a holy nation found in Exodus 19 3-6 along with these laws God established a conditions to either bless the nation of Israel for their obedience to his laws or curse them for their Disobedience found in lus 26 and Deuteronomy 28 if the nation of Israel obeyed the commands of God they would be blessed with prosperity health and safety but if they disobeyed they would be cursed with poverty sickness and Terror although the law was good and holy according to Romans 7:12 it was a yoke of bondage that brought sin and death to those who lived under the law Galatians 51 and Romans 7: 7-13 at the end of the Old Testament age God sent forth his son made of a woman made under the law to redeem them that were under the law according to Galatians 44-5 during Christ's Earthly Ministry he completed all 613 laws bringing an end to the law of Moses when he accomplished all that was required by the law according to the prophets then declaring at the cross it is finished Galatians 5:18 tells us but if you be led of the spirit ye are not under the law so Christian if you profess to have Jesus Christ as your lord and savior and indwell by the power of the Holy Spirit and therefore led by him you are not under the law according to Galatians number one let's look at the purpose of the law in Exodus 19 3-6 we told that Moses went up unto God and the Lord called onto him out of the mountain saying thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob and tell the children of Israel ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians and how I bear You On Eagle's Wings and brought you unto myself now therefore if he will obey my voice indeed and keep my Covenant then he shall be A peculiar treasure unto me above all people for all the Earth is mine and he shall be unto me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation these are the words which Thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel so we see in Exodus 19 that the three initial purposes for the law was to make the nation of Israel a pecar treasure a kingdom of priests and a holy nation and of course he only said that this was for the nation of Israel uh the seven way the ways that God was going to do this was by one revealing the holy character of the Eternal God to the nation of Israel and provide sanctification set apart the nation of Israel as distinct from all other nations three reveal the sinfulness of man four provide forgiveness to the sacrifice offerings for the people who had faith in the Lord and the nation of Israel five provide a way of worship for the Community of Faith through the yearly Feast six provide God's direction for the physical and spiritual health of the nation and number seven reveal to humanity that no one can keep the law but everyone falls short of God's standard of Holiness so God established a covenant with the people of Israel to set the apart as promised to Abraham Isaac and Jacob to be a chosen Jewel Above All Nations as a Priestly Kingdom and fit for his purpose Hebrews chapter 10 tells us that the law and the sacrifices were a shadow of good things to come this means that the nation of Israel lived under the law and the sacrifices uh they were to place their faith in Christ who was the very image of these things to come also another way that God was going to uh use the law was uh to provide conditions and results of obedience and Disobedience to the law which I mentioned in my opening stat statement and you can find this in Leviticus 26 and Deuteronomy 28 for their obedience God would bless them with prosperity health and safety and for Disobedience God would uh bring them poverty sickness and Terror moving on Galatians 3:19 tells us wherefore then serveth the law so we're going to see what the law actually served for it was added because of transgressions till the seed had come to whom the promise was made and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator the word added here in the Greek means to be put to put to to add or to place beside and the the's Greek Lexicon added means to add I.E join to gather with any company the number of one's followers or companions to what already exists and what already existed before the the law of Moses the abrahamic Covenant and according to the Vine's expository dictionary added here in Galatians 3:19 means that something had been added to the promise with a view to complete it which sorry that something hadn't been added to the promise which a you to complete it which the Apostle denies but that something had been given in addition to the promise as in Romans 520 the law came in beside and so why did the law the mosaic law came in beside the abrahamic Covenant for transgression uh which by definition is the violation of a law or known principle of rectitude breach of command and the the's Greek Lexicon transgression properly is a going over metaphorically a disregarding or violating to create transgressions I.E that sins might take on the character of transgressions and thereby the consciousness of sin be intensified and the the desire for Redemption be aroused so the purpose of the law for was to bring the consciousness of sin which we can see supported in verses like Romans 3:19 through2 which says now we know that what things soever the law saith it saith to them who are under the law that every mouth may be stopped and all the world may become guilty before God therefore by the Deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight for by the law is the knowledge of sin also Romans 773 is a good supporting verse so before the law was given sin was dead when God revealed his moral standard to the people of Israel transgression was made known imputing sin to all who violate his law this in turn brought a yoke of bondage and death the law was also their guide and guardian this means that the law directed them in their conduct and course of Life protecting them until the Faith of Christ should come to redeem us from the law and sin and death Galatians 3:23-24 says but before Faith came we were kept under the law shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed wherefore the law was our school Master to bring us unto Christ that we might be justified by faith the word School Master here in the Greek is defined as he or that which disciplines instructs and leads according to the the's Greek Lexicon it is defined as a tutor I.E a guide and guardian of boys the Mosaic law is liken to a tutor because once again it arouses the consciousness of sin this prepared the soul for Christ because those who have learned by experience with the law that they are not and cannot be commended to God by their Works welcome the more eagerly the hope of Sal salvation offered them through the death and resurrection of Christ the son of God so the law being described as their school Master meant that Old Testament Israel was kept under guard I.E protection by the law the law was also their tutor a guide in which to lead people to Christ this is the way that Jesus presented the law to people like the Rich Young Ruler and others to show them that they could not fulfill it and needed to look outside of their lawke keeping to find a righteousness greater than the scribes and Pharisees number two Jesus came and fulfilled the law and Matthew 5:1 17-18 we told think not that I am come to destroy the law or the prophets I am not come to destroy but to fulfill for verily I say unto you till Heaven and Earth pass one jaw or one TT shall in no wise pass from the law to all be fulfilled the word destroy here in the Greek means to destroy utterly to overthrow completely in the the's Greek Lexicon destroy means to dissolve disunite to deprive of force anull abrate or discard the law here by the uh by definition is by momy the name of the more important part I.E the pentat to meaning that's referring to the first five books of the Bible Genesis through Deuteronomy this put for the entire collection of the Sacred books of the Old Testament prophets here is defined as the Old Testament prophets who fortold of the Kingdom deeds and death of Jesus and the word fulfill here means to fulfill to complete or carry out to the full in the the's Greek Lexicon fulfill universally and absolutely means to fulfill I.E to cause God's will as May known in the law to be obeyed as it should be in God's promises given through the prophet prophets to receive fulfillment so here Jesus made it clear that he did not come to destroy the Hebrew scriptures IE the pentat but to fulfill it completely as made known to us through the prophets we see Christ accomplishing this very promise when he was sentenced to die on the cross by his own people to finally bring all Humanity satisfaction through his shed blood in Luke chapter 24 after Jesus's death burial and Resurrection he made known unto his disciples what he meant here by opening their minds so that they would understand Luke 24 44-45 says and he said unto them these are the words which I spake unto you while I was yet with you that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the law of Moses and in the prophets and in the Psalms concerning me then opened he their understanding that they may understand the scriptures in John 1928-30 we're told after this Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished that the scripture might be fulfilled saith I thirst now there was set a vessel full of vinegar and they filled a sponge with vinegar and put it upon hisp and put it to his mouth when Jesus therefore had received the vinegar he said it is finished and he bowed his head and gave up the ghost the phrase it is finished is defined as to finish to bring to an end Telos meaning and end frequently signifies not merely to terminate a thing but to carry out a thing to the full in the the's Greek Lexicon is finished means to perform execute complete fulfill everything has been accomplished which by the appointment of the father as revealed in the scriptures I must do in bear so when Christ said that it was all finished he meant that it was all finished paid in full and accomplished meaning the types promises and prophecies were finished the sacrifices and ceremonies of the priesthood were finished his perfect obedience was finished the satisfaction of God's justice was finished and the power of Satan's sin and death was finished get a here Romans 104 tells us for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth the word end here in the Greek is defined as to set out for a definite point or goal properly the point aimed at as a limit I.E by implication the conclusion of an act or state in the the's Greek Lexicon end here means termination the limit at which a thing ceases to be meaning Christ has brought the law to all end so the moment Christ proclaimed it is finished according to John 19:30 signifying the Fulfillment of the law and giving up the ghost the veil of the temple was then torn into from the top to the bottom Matthew 27:51 tells us this symbolically this meant that Jesus had now opened the way for all to enter directly into the presence of God bringing an end to the old Covenant to begin the new which brings me to my last point the New Covenant which we are in now Matthew 26 27-28 says and he took the cup and gave thanks and gave it to them saying drink ye all of it for this is my blood of the new testament which is shed for many for the remission of sins during the Passover Jesus initiated the Lord's Supper the breaking of bread and the drinking of wine was a symbol of what was about to come the breaking of his body and the shedding of his blood on the cross for the remission of sins bringing in the New Covenant 1 Corinthians 11:23 through 26 tells us for I have received of the Lord which that which I also delivered unto you that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread and when he had given thanks he break it and said take eat this is my body which is broken for you this do in remembrance of me after the same manner also he took the cup when he had s saying this cup is a new test my blood this to as often as he drink it and remembrance of me for as often as drink this well sorry eat this bread and drink this cup you do show the Lord's death till he came this is a porting verse told by Paul also 2 Corinthians uh chapter 3 tells us starting in verse 6 who ha also made us able Ministers of the New Testament not of the letter but of the spirit for the letter kth but the spirit giveth life but if the ministration of death written engraven in Stones this is the law was glorious so that the so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance which Glory was to be done away how shall not the ministration of the spirit be be rather glorious and moving down to verse 13 as and not as Moses which put a veil over his face that the children of Israel could not steadfastly look to the end of that which is abolished but their minds were blinded for until this day remaineth the same Veil untaken away in the reading of the Old Testament which Veil is done away with in Christ all right Ephesians 23-15 tells us but now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were a far off or made denied by the blood of Christ for he is our peace who hath made both one and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us having abolished in his flesh the enmity even the law of Commandments contained in ordinances for to make in himself of Twain one new man so making peace the word abolished here in the Greek means to reduce to inactivity Kata meaning down and Argos meaning inactive is translated as abolish here in this verse and the the's Greek Lexicon abolished means to render Idol unemployed inactive in operative to cause to cease put an end to do away with a all abolish so the Apostle Paul informs us here that the law is no longer operative because Christ fulfilled God's will as made known in his law when Christ ended all that was required at the cross then declaring it is finished all right so my conclusion and I'll end it here Christians are not under the law the moment Christ declared it is finished the law was completely fulfilled bringing an end to the old Covenant and beginning the new now that we are delivered from the law because of Christ's completed work on the cross man is no longer in bondage to the letter of the law but is able to serve in the newness of the spirit Romans 76 Ephesians 2:15 as I just read in my last slide having abolished in his flesh the enmity even the law of Commandments contained in ordinances remember Jesus put an end to the law of Commandments making it inoperative why place a yoke of bondage on ourselves when we were liberated and made free through Christ from the law Galatians 51 in this new test sorry in this New Covenant of Grace and Faith we are now gifted with salvation in Christ meaning that once a Believer places their faith in Christ they are baptized with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit Matthew 3:11 who then places us in Christ Galatians 3:27 making all of us as Believers one in the body of Christ 1 Corinthians 12:13 because we are placed in the body of Christ the law is fulfilled in US Romans 8 1-4 imputing unto us the righteousness that he obtained through the fulfilling of the law Romans 10:4 and Philippians 3 9 lastly Romans 6:14 says for sin shall not have dominion over you why for you are not under the law but under grace and with that I end my slides and for anyone out there who wishes to uh have my slides or want to reach out to me to ask me questions have a discussion or maybe have a debate this is my email here you can reach me at jp6 gmail.com and I'd love to hear from you and with that I end my presentation all right Joshua thank you very much for that roughly 20 minute opening statement we're now going to jump right into a another cross exam so again 10 minutes except this time sean gets to bring the heat so Sean go ahead I'll start the timer on your first question just make sure to unmute and you're good to go thanks Joshua is Christ this person you disciple after what do you mean by Disciple after do you do the do you disciple after Jesus Christ can you give me a definition of what you mean by that what do what do you think a disciple is well you're asking the question so I'm just verifying what it means I'm asking you another question what do you think a disciple is I know you're asking the question but I'm asking to clarify so I can better answer it this is this is tough um so James Peter John Andrew Bartholomew those are Disciples of Christ Paul was a disciple of Christ are you a disciple of Christ according to scripture yes we're to make disciples of all people so according to scripture I would be a disciple of Christ okay so what Behavior do you mimic if Christ is your master whom you disciple after I'm supposed to uh mimic Christ you know love uh as he tells us in John in John 15 uh love uh see we're supposed to love everyone as Christ loved us and uh follow him through the law of Christ which is the spirit of faith and love what verse says follow him through the law of Christ I can't remember off the top of my head it's okay it's not in the Bible though Christ tells us to love the Lord of God with all the heart soul strength and mind that's the greatest commandment what do you understand that to be well the greatest commandment yeah to love the Lord your God with all your heart soul mind and strength what do you understand the application of that to be that we're supposed to follow Christ and God in the spirit of faith and love we're supposed to do everything in accordance to love okay what does the Old Testament Define as loving God I don't know if could you tell me yeah it's doing the Commandments it's being set apart as Yahweh set apart Leviticus 18 um this is where when Christ tells us the greatest commandment is dur is he's pulling from Deuteronomy I think it's chapter 5 right love your th your heart soul strength and mind he's not inventing something he's pulling it from so would you agree with Christ when he quotes Deuteronomy to love the Lord your guard with all your whome strength and mind I would agree with scripture but when it comes to the Commandments that it gives us in the New Testament I would disagree in what you're interpreting it as I uh from what my conclusion is is that he's interpreting the Commandments in which he taught them within those passages like other's and stuff like that in Matthew 19 uh Christ is asked how do by somebody how do I receive eternal life he says uh keep the Commandments do you agree with that and what passage can you say that again Matthew 1916-17 oh yeah I I agree with scripture I don't agree with your interpretation of it what are the Commandments that Christ says to keep to get eternal life in Matthew 19 I have actually wrote that down here he's actually referring to the recent uh teachings that he taught them so that's actually in reference to uh when he washed his disciples feet when he told them to have faith in God and himself and when he told them to love one another as I have loved you and ultimately it comes down also to First John chapter I think three when it when he says oh here we go I found it so It ultimately comes down to 1 John 323 through 2 I'm asking about Matthew 19 Christ's words yes and I and I and I told you what were well it's actually I apologize Matthew what so the Commandments of God is washing feet to get eternal life no that was one of the Commandments he told him he said ultimately he told him to love one another as I have loved you right so did Christ obey the law of his father Yahweh yes of course did Christ love his father Yes okay should you also obey the law of his father and love Yahweh we weren't commanded in the New Testament to obey the laws of the father he actually says to obey the laws of Christ so he says in Matthew 19:17 if you want eternal life keep the Commandments of God which God is be refer referencing there oh okay Matthew 19:17 yeah that's not he's not actually literally telling him to obey the Commandments of God in order to receive eternal life he's using the law as a school Master to lead him through it to rec recogniz his need for a savior okay none of that stay in the text but thank you for your answer so you look in Galatians 3 you can see that yeah not Paul not Paul Christ please explain your understanding of the high priest of God can you ask that again please understand please explain your understanding of a high priest to God uh well Jesus Christ is our high priest okay what is your understanding of what a high priest of God is and what does he do um he um does let's see well there he's a new high priest which means that there's a new law and so what he does is differently what's that new law what is Christ doing in that new law that you think is happening it's the New Covenant we are saved by faith by grace through faith we're no longer under a law we're to obey the Commandments of Christ not the law that was given at Mount Si what is what do the Old Testament Define as the New Covenant uh if you the New Covenant it's sorry it's given to us in Jeremiah it says that he will place the law within in our inward parts and on our hearts okay what law is that what law gets placed in your heart and mind I would say the uh the law of Moses that uh that that Christ fulfilled he places it in us okay so you have the law of God in your heart and mind right now is that what you're saying yes okay so what is Leviticus 1911 yeah I don't I don't have the Bible memory is that well isn't it in your heart and mind how do you not know yeah I would say like the mainly The Ten Commandments are placed in our heart and mind once we receive Christ as our Lord and savior so you don't you don't okay what about Deuteronomy 247 what law does that talk about I don't know I I don't know every passage man okay how is it in your heart and mind if you don't know it of course I know the Ten Commandments are easy to remember no no that it doesn't say the Ten Commandments in Jeremiah 31 Ezekiel 36 doesn't have to say the Ten Commandments you can use words that are describing by definition that is refering to the Comm you're imposing The Ten Commandments into Jeremiah 31 you like to think that I mean that otherwise you're it doesn't make any sense is what I'm saying God says he's gonna put it his law this is Yahweh speaking in Jeremiah 31 through the prophet his law 7th Century BC he's GNA put his law into your hearts and minds of the New Covenant you claim in reference to the Ten Commandments is it not a law is if it if something's in your heart and mind would you do it or would you not do it if I'm led by the spirit then yes I would be I would be fulfilling God's will to do his laws so does the spirit tell you to do something contrary to God's laws of course not okay so do you observe the sabbath on the seventh day no because that's not commanded in the New Testament 100% is let me ask you a quick question in Isaiah 56 it says that all the nations sacrifices will be accepted on yahweh's altar in Zion have you Donnie would you like me can I put stuff on screen to ask him questions sure yeah okay that might help us because if he's I don't want him to be expected to like look stuff up real quick and put the burden on him no problem so I can stop the timer while you oh that's okay get up a visual and just let you know you got exactly two minutes left for the cross all right so I'm put this on screen for us do you see it Donnie yes yeah so Joshua it says this is what the Lord says to the Unix who keep a Sabbath who choose what pleases me and hold fast to my Covenant I'll give them in my house and within my walls a memorial in a name better than that of sons and daughters I'll give them an everlasting name that will not be cut off the foreigners who join themselves to the Lord to minister to him to love the name of the Lord to be his servants who keep the Sabbath without profane that who hold fast to my covet that's twice he's connected the Sabbath to his Covenant I will make them I will bring them to my Holy Mountain and make them joyful In My House of Prayer their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be accepted at my Altar for my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations All Nations not just Israel All Nations how do you understand this passage well in this day and age in the New Covenant Christ is our Sabbath rest we place our rest in him that's why no longer when do you when do you go when does God bring you to his holy mountain I don't know off the top of my head are you a foreigner who's joined yourself to the Lord since you don't think you're part of Israel I wouldn't say I'm a foreigner we're all one in Christ there's no Jew or Gentile so then you're grafted into Israel because he's the root of Israel right the of the clan of Judah I wouldn't say I'm grafted into Israel I mean I guess you can say that if you're referring to Israel as Jesus so all Nations that includes Israel and All Nations they're going to be in his house offering sacrifices that are accepted even burnt offerings which is Leviticus chapter one why does the law come back when Zion arrives on the earth in Isaiah 56 in your understanding are you talking about during Revelation okay we let we can move on we can move on all right gentlemen that is 10 minutes so we've concluded both opening statements now and both cross examinations and so that's 20 minutes each and 10 minutes each so now we're moving into uninterrupted rebuttal and four hour rebuttal we got 10 minutes each and as I understand it affirmative gets the first rebuttal and so Sean we're going to hand it over to you please let me know when you are good to go and I'll start your timer 10 minutes sure I'm ready okay go ahead all right Joshua um during your your opening statements you the first thing you start off with with is 613 laws of the laws what you said did you that's not a real thing that's an arbitrary number that was created by rambam um in approximately the 12th century um also you mentioned this concept that the law is broken down into categories T the moral the Civil the ceremonial and the social Paradigm that was also invented in the 15th century by reformers that's not stated in Scripture in fact in Isaiah Jeremiah and different places the law is being transgressed by the priests of God and specifically in regards to the sabbaths and so he says those who have profaned his Sabbath are wicked and immoral so Yahweh himself directly attributes people that profane the Sabbath which you would call ceremonial in your in this reformers sectioned Paradigm Yahweh says that those who profane the Sabbath are wicked and immoral moral that sounds a lot like he's blending the moral the civil and the ceremonial to me because he does because there's no segmentation that's in a madeup tradition of men from the reformers age time period so yeah you also said that Christ couldn't uh that Christ completed all 613 laws but he can't because they don't all apply to him Christ is not completing the laws for women's ministration Christ is not completing the laws for a woman to show her virginity and army 22 Christ is not completing the laws of separation for a mother who gives birth to a boy before she can present herself at the temple in Leviticus 12 he cannot again the 613 is an arbitrary number some of those instructions included how they were going to go into the land and attack the Hittites and the amorites Christ is is can't complete all those laws they don't all apply to him you do the Commandments that apply to you so for one Christ there is no arbitrary fulfillment because you you try to go over Matthew 57 1 through2 to say that you actually read the definition but you left out some of the definitions that are given in the lexicons for this word polares which is to two to accomplish to fully preach to carry out to its completion and I agree with you Christ did do those things but in your opening statements you said that and then just moved on so none of that says abolish none of that says abolish Christ accomplished he fulfilled he fully preached he did the law and the prophets he did the message of his father and he didn't change it had he changed it he would have been called a false prophet this is why I asked you and you affirm that Christ did do the law of God because if Christ deviated from the law of God he would have been called a false prophet if C if any Prophet tries to come up and change the law of God he should not be listened to he is considered presumptuous he is false Christ did not do that Christ was a true Prophet who spoke the words of life which is his father's commands you also said that um you're that basically um only Israel was given the law you you talked about Romans chapter 10:1 13 well you didn't talk about this you talked about the righteousness excuse me you talked about the law that was given to Israel but you said you're not part of that which is why I asked you are you grafted into the root which is what um Romans chapter 1113 through 24 actually tells us that we are grafted into the root which is Christ and that we should not be hotty we should not be prideful we should be grateful that even though some original branches have been pruned and cut off we're grafted in as a wild Olive choot into the True Vine and that's Christ so the True Vine doesn't change his moniker remember he's from the tribe of Judah from from the the clan from where Jesse and David came he is of the tribes of Israel he's the king of Israel he's going to be the king over the city of God which has the 12 gates with the names of the of the tribes of Israel on it so if you're not a part of Israel you're in bad shape brother you get you are a part of Israel Christ who's the king of Israel is your master your savior Redeemer your God you better be a part of Israel you have to be just like all the nations in Matthew 25:31 that are going to be drawn to Christ and when he chooses the Sheep out of those he shows Mercy to they then Graft in and do the law of God and the behavior of Israel this is expressed in Isaiah 2 2-5 is the Nations come to him for judgment and the law of the Lord Goes Forth from Zion so you have to be in Israel in order to be in the family of God and receive an inheritance in the New Jerusalem J also said no one can keep the law that's just blatantly false lots of people keep the law every day and there is no requirement in God's law that you have to keep it perfectly before your previous obedience matters your previous obedience always matters this is what Ezekiel chapter 20 goes into great depth trying to explain excuse me Ezekiel chapter 18 that all the wickedness that you've done beforehand will be atoned for will be forgotten once you start doing righteousness once you repent change your ways into righteousness in the same way once you start doing righteousness if you Rebel and repent and start doing wickedness the good that you've done before will not be remembered so again the whole point of the priest of God the priesthood that's expressed to us from Leviticus 28-35 and Leviticus 1-7 and a whole bunch of other places the of whom Christ embodies a Priestly position to God on our behalf that whole thing is there for us when we fail this is what first John 18 and9 tries to express to you that he who thinks he about Sin is a liar so therefore if we confess our sins he's faithful and just to cleanse us on righteousness because he's our mediator 1 Timothy 2:5 he mediates between man and God he's our Hebrew 7:25 he's the priest eternally he is in service to to God on our behalf Hebrews 2:17 for our atonement so that is s the covering over of sin the removal of our sin happens at the resurrection so this whole concept that no one can keep the law is a false Paradigm it's a false framing that scripture never makes that argument scripture makes the argument that when you sin here's how you get atonement through the Priestly process Christ embodies that Priestly process and makes atonement for us it's literally the exact words of Hebrews 217 that Christ had to be made like his brothers in every way so he make a high priest faithful and service to God in order to make atonement for our sins this is what he does for us right now Hebrews 8 1 and2 in the true Tabernacle in heaven ministering to the father we are not charged to keep perfectly the law of God In the Flesh the father knows we're going to make mistakes that's why in in his law he set up an entire priesthood in his law to atone for our mistakes when we make mistakes only Christ was without sin no one and Christ was you know the Son of God sent the mystery of godliness right we born of a woman born through Adam he doesn't tell us anywhere in the scriptures hey you have to keep every single jot andle my and if you fail all of your previous obedience doesn't matter no he says oh if you fail here's how you make atonement and we're good again this is how you can have men who are who have sinned at some point in their life that are still considered righteous like Noah like Zechariah and Elizabeth and Luke chap 1 verse 4-7 this is how you have righteous men declared all throughout the Bible because righteousness is people that did the law of God to the very end they didn't stop they didn't turn back and worship other gods um your Ephesians 2:15 you talked about how having abolished the enity even the Commandments and ordinances so it's not abolishing the ordinances and the Commandments it's the enity from transgressing the ordinances and the Commandments that's why he actually says further on in Ephesians 2 you read Ephesians 2:15 but before that before you get to that passage in Ephesians 2 there that Paul says this therefore remember that formerly you who are Gentiles In the Flesh and called uncircumcision uncircumcised by the so-called circumcision that was my answer to you and your first cross to me asking you if you knew the difference because Paul's talking about the difference here verse 12 he says that remember that at that time you were separate from Christ alienated from the Commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the Covenant of promise I hope that you are now joined with Christ and familiar in the Commonwealth of Israel and a friend of the Covenant of promise I hope that you are the opposite of those three descriptions my brother but remember the Ephesians Paul is preaching to them that they were formerly rebellious and without God they were separate from Christ that means they weren't discipling after him they weren't alienated from the Commonwealth of Israel that means they weren't grafted in they were strangers to the Covenant of Promise they had no knowledge of God which is what we're told to get is the knowledge of God to understand the Covenant promises and the Commandments that go with the Covenant and the Ephesians were while they were still dead in their sin while they were still without Christ they were without hope and without God in the world but now here's the transition Point verse 13 but now in Christ you who once were far away have now been brought near through the blood of Christ because they repented they confessed they put their faith in Christ this is what he's talking about he's now abolished the enity the hostility as some translations call it the dividing wall of hostility because now they've repented as Ezekiel 18 says their former wickedness is forgotten because now they do righteousness the disciple after Christ it's it's uh it's truly very simple so that's probably the last point I'll make um in this first rebuttal um thank you Donnie and thank you Joshua for my time thank you Sean for that 10 minute rebuttal we're now gonna hand it to Joshua Joshua you get your rebuttal and you also have 10 minutes so whenever you're ready the floor is yours just make sure to unmute you're good to go like to share my slides sure all right you guys see them yes let me make it bigger so just so we're clear Joshua you are GNA be responding to my opening arguments well the best I can man all right so I'm ready to go now okay Josh this is your rebuttal so you'll be responding to the points Sean brought up in his opening statement and you got 10 minutes go ahead I just want to clarify that the scripture teaches us that the law of Moses is a yoke of bondage all right meaning that the law is said to subject one to the conditions of a slave on account of the Grievious burdens its precepts impose upon its inheritance inherence in Galatians 51 we're told Stand Fast there for in the Liberty wherewith Christ has made us free and be not entangled again with the Yoke of bondage all right what is this yoke of bondage that Paul is referring to well if you look back in Galatians chapter 4 because five is a continuation of of chapter four it tells us tell me that desire to be under the law do we not hear the law for it is written that Abraham had two sons the one by a bondmaid the other by a free woman but he who was of the Bond woman was not born after the flesh but he of the free woman was by promise which things are an allegory for these are the two covenants the one from Mount SI which gendereth to bondage and the one that was given at Mount Si was the law of Moses which is agar who is Hagar in the Old Testament for this AAR is Mount Si in Arabia and answer to Jerusalem which now is and is in bondage with her children but Jerusalem which is above is free which is the mother of us all for it is written Rejoice thou baren that bearest not break forth and cry thou that travail us not for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband now we Brethren as Isaac was are the children of promise but as as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the spirit even so it is now nevertheless what sayith the scripture cast out the Bond woman and her son for the son of the Bond woman shall not be air with the son of the free woman so then brethren we are not children of the Bond woman but of the free so Paul here gives an allegory showing that the old Covenant that was given on Mount Si represents agar just like Agar was a Bond woman to Abraham so was the people of Israel and their offspring to the law this was the current condition of Jerusalem since they rejected their Messiah and continue to live under the law the New Covenant represents Sarah a free woman who was promised a child that in him all the nations of the Earth would be blessed therefore just as Isaac was born free so were we when we act in faith receiving Christ as our savior the Liberty that we receive in Christ happens through the adoption of the father Galatians 4 1-5 when we receive Christ we receive the spirit of Christ no longer making us servants but sons and as a son and heir of God through Christ Galatians 4:6-7 therefore we should reject the Yoke of bondage that is the law and standfast in the Liberty that Christ has made us free Galatians 51 for the Servants of the law cannot also be the heir with the sons of those made free in Christ so those who are subjecting themselves to the law are putting themselves putting a yoke of bondage upon themselves and are have lost the grace of of Christ or God that he has bestowed upon us through Christ all right this is supported also in acts 15:10 when Paul calls the uh the law and circumcision as a uh a yoga bondage all right I want to clarify that we are not under the law Romans 6:14 says for sin shall not have dominion over you for you are not under the law but under grace the word not here in the Greek means no not expressing a negation which by definition is a DEC declaration that something is not all right not is usually rendered as nay or not not meaning in no degree and the word under here by definition is to be under I.E subject to the power of any person or thing and the Webster 18208 dictionary under is a state of pupilage or subjection as a youth under a tutor a ward under a guardian and so forth so as Paul explains why Believers are dead to sin and alive to God he informs us that sin no longer has dominion over us because we in no degree are subject to the power of the law we are now subject to the power of grace through Christ all right Galatians 5:18 says but if you be led of the spirit you are not under the law not under having the same definition as what I showed you in Romans 614 Galatians 3:25 says but after that faith has come we are no longer under a school Master this is in reference what the law is being referred to as a school Master Romans 74 through6 says or 74 and 6 wherefore my brethren ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ that he should be married to uh to another even to him who is raised from the dead that we should bring forth fruit unto God verse six says but now we are delivered from the law that being dead wein we were held that we should serve in the the newness of the spirit and not in the oldness of the letter that the phrase we we Sorry are become dead is defined as to kill literally or figuratively become dead cost to be put to I'm just gonna I'm gonna pause your timer here we just hit the four and a half minute Mark and I do appreciate your visuals and what you're going through here but just to make it more understandable to the audience can you pick specific points that Shawn brought up in his opening and then directly engage them just so the a audience knows what point is being addressed in what you're reading if that makes sense Josh yeah this is in reference to uh you know when uh Sean is claiming that we are still under the law I just wanted to verify that we are no longer under the law uh in any way all right Jesus Christ did give us a new commandment John 13 and John 15 tells us Greater Love have oh sorry this is my commandment that he love one another greater love hath no man than this and man laid down his life for his friends all right Council of Jerusalem maybe we can get this one point I can show you in Acts 15 we are no longer under the law and the decision that they made all right the law in Israel all right the law was specifically given to Israel and it was not given to anyone else no one outside of Israel was required to keep it all right Deuteronomy 51 through3 says and Moses called all Israel and said unto them here o Israel the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day that he may learn and keep them he tells us in verse five the Lord made not this Covenant with our fathers but with us even us who are all of us here alive this day all right it was not given to anyone else so unless you can show me in scripture where the where the law was imposed on anyone outside of the law it's nothing more than is of Jesus Galatians 3:17-18 tells us the law which was 430 years after Abraham so there wasn't any Covenant and like the Covenant that was given to Moses and the people of Israel before then all right yes Abraham had a covenant but it was not the same as what was given to uh people of Mo uh the people of Israel the the purpose of the law was for transgression and um but just to avoid confusion the abrahamic Covenant obviously extended to Israel and so forth so I just I don't want anybody to get confused by that Exodus 193 through6 Leviticus 26 45-46 uh Psalm 147 tells us that he showeth his word unto Jacob his statutes and judgments unto unto Israel Heath not dealt so with any Nation Any Nation as for his judgment have not known them Praise You the Lord Old Testament priests um Old Testament priests in the Old Testament are not the same sorry I should say in Genesis are not the same as what's uh defined as uh when God gives the law to the people in fact uh I have four sources pretty much a priest was any man who came before God to give sacrifices and gifts and uh then fell upon mainly the fathers princes and kings until the the law was given uh to for the Priestly duty to Aaron and his sons and then for therefore the levitical or uh the tribe of Levi uh Sabbath Sabbath is the day which God appointed to be observed by the Jews as a day of rest from all secular labor or Employments and to be kept holy and consecrated to a service and worship the first mention of a day of rest is in Genesis 2 yes I agree with that but the thing with Genesis 2 is it's just describing what God did he completed or rested from his work it's a description of what he did it's not a prescription meaning that there was no requirement or law given to anyone one just because he consecrated and made it holy doesn't mean that therefore there is now a law for everyone to abide by it the law for Sabbath keeping was not given until Exodus 16 and then later in Exodus chapter 20 as part of the Ten Commandments and it was a sign and seal uh for the nation of Israel um um you can also look at some of these other verses Deuteronomy chapter 5 and for the purpose of the law and why God gave it to the nation of Israel oh uh for Sabbath I went a little bit too far uh when it comes to Christ being our Sabbath if you look at Hebrews 4 49-10 uh it states that Jesus is our Sabbath rest He also mentioned this in Matthew chapter 11 when he told those who are present come unto me all ye that labor and heavy are heavy laden and I will give you rest we are no longer required to keep the Sabbath we are permitted we're just not re quir circumcision circumcision is a cutting around is a right en joined by God upon Abraham and his male descendants all right in Galatians 5:6 we're told for in Jesus Christ neither circum circumcision availeth anything nor uncircumcision but Faith which worketh by love Avail by definition literally means it is good for nothing literally it availeth nothing in the there's Greek Lexicon it means to have a power IE equivalent to be a force or a veil so this verse is literally telling us that circum C ision or uncircumcision literally has no power or it ath nothing it does nothing for you and why is circumcision and uncircumcision good for nothing well one is it it's a yoke of bondage I.E the law is said to subject one to the conditions of a slave on account of the Grievous burdens its precepts imposed upon its inheritance you can find that in Galatians 51 two Christ is of no profit or service to us if we are circumcised Galatians 52 three those who are circumcised are under the obligation then to execute the whole law according to Galatians 5:3 and last those that are justified by the law is Fallen meaning loses or fallen from Grace or loses Grace because Christ is severed or separated from you Galatians 54 all right uh when it comes to Christ when he says if you love me keep my Commandments I know he mentioned in Matthew I don't have that one prepared but in John 14 we're told if you love me keep my Commandments the Commandments here by definition is an injunction charge of precept in the the's Greek Lexicon this U contextually a commandment I is prescribed rule in accordance with which a thing is done ethically of the moral precepts of Christ and his Apostles so when Jesus told his disciples to keep my Commandments he is not referring to the laws and commands of God that were given to Israel at Mount Si rather Jesus is referring to the commands that are specifically given to his disciples in the recent passages so when he States this he's referring to John 13:14 through1 15 when he told them to wash one another's feet as Christ did uh John 13 when he told them to love one another as Christ loved them and 141 when he told them to put their faith God and in Christ same in John 15 he repeated the command to love one another as I have loved you and if you actually look when he says if you keep my Commandments and then later he says where he has kept my father's Commandments all right there's a there's a difference in what he's referring to all right um see if you keep my Commandments is referring to the moral precepts of Christ and his Apostles whereas my father's Commandments by definition is referring to those which God commanded to be done by Christ and uh with that I'll end my M rebuttal okay thank you Joshua for that 10minute rebuttal gentlemen we've concluded opening statements cross exams and our rebuttal now what we do have next is a 20 minute discussion so rather than a real strict cross exam this will be more free flowing more organic we can discuss the points and and since Joshua just ended with his rebuttal Sean let's hand it to you and allow you to pick the first topic or ask the first question to kick us off here go ahead oh I think you're on mute Sean sure thank you you're good hey Joshua um yes sir you read Matthew 5:1 17-20 just as I did earlier talk about Christ saido not think I've come to abolish law the prophets I did not come to abolish but to fulfill and you broke down the Greek of that word abolish which means to destroy so do you see a difference in destroying something versus just ignoring it and not doing it I don't know what you mean by that I mean the oldest not destroyed if the Old Testament if the law and the prophets are not destroyed but that he came to fulfill them not destroy them yeah right we agree then yeah how is it not the same as destroying them or abolishing them if you have just now ignored them well because the word abolished in Ephesians 25 is not in reference to destroy it's just saying that it's I asked about Matthew 5:1 17-20 yeah and you also brought up the word abolish which I'm giving you a distinct difference between destroy and abolish and how those two verses are being used it's not desty those two verses about Matthew 51 17-2 I understand that Sean and I'm answering you don't have to like my answer no it's not about that I just you just brought up Ephesians 2 I didn't ask you about that um I'm asking about Matthew 5:1 17-20 specifically Christ said did not come to abolish the law and the prophets but to fulfill them so I'm just asking you how is it any different if you are sitting there saying you don't have to do the law and the prophets which I'm gonna ask you about that in a minute as like how what do you mean by that because that sounds wild to me surely you don't think you can run around murdering and committing adultery right so you you think that Christ okay so then you agree with the law and the prophets I agree with the Commandments that were taught by Jesus and the disciples in the New Testament when he said the nine of the Ten Commandments were carried over from the Old Testament and required for us to keep because I mean we're still expected to you that I'm sorry who taught you that scripture which specific verse told you nine out of the Ten Commandments is all you have to do as a Christian well when I read through the New Testament and I don't see a command to keep the Sabbath so why did all the apostles continually keep the Sabbath and that's where they evangelized in the synagogues because it's permitted but it's not required okay why does why does um God say that the Unix and the faithful foreigners who minister to him who keep his Sabbath and keep holy his Covenant in Isaiah 56 why are they honored in his house well you're referring to Old Testament when we're speaking of New Testament whether or not all right so I don't know your views on eschatology but you do do would you agree that the old testament's not fulfilled yet oh yeah there's still things that need to be fulfilled which things have not yet happened like things in Daniel you know prophesying the end times okay so in Isaiah you all right do you believe that Isaiah has prophecies that have not come true yet I don't remember all his prophecies that I have to go through and read the scriptures okay so in Isaiah 56 when it talks about all Nations being gathered to the house of God has that happened in history at any point yet nothing that I'm aware of okay would do you agree then that's maybe a future prophecy well are you trying to associate that with Matthew I just ask you a simple question Isaiah 56 when he says all nations are brought to the house of God and their sacrifices will be acceptable on his altar you said some prophecies in Isaiah haven't happened yet I'm asking you in Isaiah 56 has that prophecy happened yet not that I'm aware of are you trying to reference that to Matthew nope no no I'm just asking about the actual words in Isaiah 56 it says that all nations are brought to his house and they will perform altar sacrifices in his house and he will accept them why do you think that that is why do you think that he's bringing all nations to his house and they're doing sacrifices to him if the Law's done away with I don't know you're confusing me in the direction that you're going man it's a general it's a very simple question brother I'm there I read the verse you earlier in our cross Isaiah 56 All Nations all nations are brought to him to do sacrifices on his altar they're called burnt even burnt offerings so burnt offerings are not sacrifices of Praise sacrifices of Praise goes along with a praise offering or a Thanksgiving offering from Leviticus 2 burnt offerings of Leviticus 1 are offered on his altar by All Nations so is that law the law of God being performed in the future in this future prophecy I don't know this actually a discussion I've been having lately with my father on end times and you know the spirit and the law and whatnot but uh from what I'm seeing this is rewards for obedience to God he's so he would be talking to the nation of Israel I don't see why he would be talking to anyone else outside of Israel it says in verse seven All Nations Brother All Nations I can't that enough so this is this is a common a repeat prophecy all throughout scripture is Deuteronomy chapter 30 Isaiah chapter 2 Isaiah chapter 11 Isaiah 65 Isaiah 56 Isaiah 66 Jeremiah 31 in the septent Matthew 21:31 Matthew 2531 all nations are brought to Christ to learn right behavior and stop killing each other so in Isaiah chapter 2 we'll go for an easier one then okay because this one has very specific language in Isaiah chapter 2 says in the last days I think the problem too is that we're talking we we're talking past each other because we're using two different versions and so my scripture doesn't say my passage sorry Bible doesn't say all nations it says all people that's the same thing brother just like in Revelation chapter 7 say same thing every tribe tongue and people those things that are different are not the same All Nations all right I don't know if Donnie has available to put this on screen but Isaiah chapter 2 it says in the last days the mountain of the House of Yahweh will be established as the chief of the mountains that'll be arised above the hills and All Nations will stream to it many peoples will come and say let us go up to the mountain of the Lord to the house of the god of Jacob he will teach us his ways that we may walk in his paths for the law will go forth from Zion the word of the Lord will go forth from Jerusalem he will judge between the Nations and arbitrate for many peoples they will beat their plowshares and their Spears into printing hooks Nation will no longer take up sword against Nation nor will they train for war anymore more yeah this sounds like a future stuff exactly so what what law is this going forward from Zion that are the ways of God that are being taught to the Nations uh this is once again this is something I'm still studying out I've been having recent conversations with my father so there is a possibility based on our discussions that I've had with him that this could be something that in the future after everyone has been taken res raptured and so forth that the law will be once again implemented okay brother um so you haven't studied like prophecy and eschatology passages no that hasn't been my thing lately fair enough that's fair enough fair enough you have any questions for me oh yeah um I got so sidetracked I wasn't even thinking all right so I do have some other questions so I like I like to go back to like the Sabbath thing so I do see I I you believe that the Sabbath was given primarily at Genesis chapter 2 when God rested and uh and consecrated it correct yep okay so I can see I see a description where is the requirement from that point where where anyone was required to keep the Sabbath meaning like Adam no is it just the Sabbath is the Sabbath the only law that you're concerned about in God's entire instruction for right Behavior no but you gotta start I get it I'm just asking because it's weird how people focus on this one thing so in Leviticus in Leviticus 23 1 through3 it says that the sabbaths of the Lord are Eternal and everlasting instruction for our gener Everlasting Generations what passage is that again so I'll read as aloud because I think I I didn't quote it exactly so let me get the verbatim says the Lord said to Moses speak to the Israelites and say to them these are my appoint OED feasts the feasts of the Lord that you are to Proclaim as sacred assemblies for six days work may be done but the seventh day is a Sabbath of complete rest a day of sacred assembly you must not do any work wherever you live it's a Sabbath to Yahweh these are the appointed feasts of Yahweh okay so then he goes on in verse 32 as he expresses all the sabbaths with all the different feast days of God they're all called sabbaths and he goes on he explains that these are um they're permanent statute for all generations to come wherever you live actually I think it's further on down these are the appointed feasts which you to Proclaim as sacred assemblies representing the offerings of the Lord a Contin they're a permanent statue every single Sabbath he announces in Leviticus 23 is called a permanent Sabbath a permanent Statute in s in sacred assembly so did you realize that in Genesis 1114 through 17 that the sun moon and stars are for marking the times and the sacred assembly I understand that they're given for seasons and times no no it's not Seasons that word in Hebrew is the word madim is for sacred assemblies seasons is a modern translation from English so it's the sacred assemblies is what I just read in in the sabbaths of God in Leviticus 23 from the beginning from Genesis 1 from day four of creation sun moon and stars are put in the firment to monitor the days seasons and sacred assemblies of God it's it's in the Hebrew in Genesis 114-117 okay can you show meus 23 what verse were you saying where it says it's Eternal all of them every single Sabbath that's introduced in Leviticus 23 is called an eternal permanent generation this is why in excuse me a permanent Eternal instruction throughout all generations this is why in Genesis 2 verse3 yah says he hallowed the Sabbath and Sanctified it that means he set it apart yeah I I agree he set it apart but here's the thing from what I've learned and through my studies when it comes to even this and that is I I don't your version is tends to be different from the version that I use and oftentimes the word forever is used and I can't see if it's being used here in this passage because I can't find the exact passage that you were using but anyways I do know that the Sabbath was not meant to be Eternal in the sense that the way it was celebrated in the Old Testament because Jesus Christ literally became our Sabbath rest which is why in Matthew 11 Jesus said come unto me that are heavy laden and I will give you rest we find our rest in him does he say ma wait a minute though in Matthew 11 what does he actually say in that verse I will give you rest for why for my burden is light and my yoke is easy what is a yoke what is a yoke in first century hebraic scultpure what are you talking about like how they reference it or how they use that because I know like obviously yoke is something that they put on like cattle or something like that for farming and what not and I get what a yoke a bondage was but it means instruction and teaching it's your guidance just like it's the Yoke you put on an oxin IT guides them through the field that's what it means this is why in Acts 15 the disciples were talking about how we do not need to do the customs of Moses which is the oral Torah of Rabbi Judaism because it was a yoke they could not bear acts 15 so look I I don't know if we're going to have a good conversation here if you're going to have to look up every verse I mentioned to you I just I mean unless you just unless this is better for you the way your brain works on scriptures so if you're gonna throw out scriptures then we should go through them I mean this isn't a I'm not in this debate to to win it man I'm here to have a discussion on scripture it's not about winning it's fine I love questions on scripture so therefore that's why I'll just defer to you again if you have another question for me okay I'll let you go ahead yeah like I'm not here to win anything I'm just here to have a good conversation whether I agree with you or not I might not be able to answer everything perfectly in the way I would like to but you know me this is why we do this man it's for learning it's for growing it is it is so can you address the point that I made in in that my opening Revelation 2214 blessed are those who keep the Commandments they have the right toer of the city in need of the tree of life I I said said I haven't studied in Time stuff you're going in directions I didn't even think that you were going to go CU I I based my study off from the other from uh your previous debates like with Paul but right now but right now though you and I are talking if we were in a coffee shop just chilling hanging out you know we just got done playing basketball at the rec center we went have to grab something to drink we're like just chilling I was like hey man I read this verse in revelation 22 it says blessed are those who keep the Commandments they have the right to enter the city and eat of the Tree of Life what do you think that means revelation 22 you said 224 so I I'm sorry yeah Revelation 2214 and so like I would say I personally I don't know off the top of my head it's something that I would uh be willing to listen to you on what you say and then study out a lat time blessed are they that do his Commandments that they may have the right to the Tree of Life off the top of my head I would say that his Commandments is in reference to what we're told earlier like in 1 John chapter 3 I believe is when his Commandments are in reference to that God requires us to receive his son Jesus Christ and uh to love one another as he has loved us right but doesn't Paul in Romans 14 Express that loving your neighbor the summary of the law is doing all the is not murdering not committing adultery you know not coveting all the things that are expressed and explained by the law yeah and I agree Jesus said hang all the Hang all the law on these two Commandments but which is why he also tells us that or Paul tells us too that we are supposed to practice this in faith and love exactly exactly the point of the law is that you do it with Mercy this is why Christ tells the Pharisees who were who are uh abusing the law and imposing their own man-made Traditions he tells the Pharisees that you know you've tithed your human your men your spice but you've neglected faith mercy and Justice right because they were not doing the law according to how the law says to be done which is with the love of God right you're supposed to do it with Mercy Justice and faith not as some sort of wrote tradition that you think guarantees you an entrance into heaven that was the pheric message that was why Christ reprimanded them but what Christ taught when so in Hebrews 1 Corinthians 111 Paul says imitate me as I imitate Christ what was Paul imitating or what was Christ doing Paul imitated well Christ was living a life of faith and love I mean everything he taught was based off from faith and love which is why he did all of the things he did where I I've already shown that we're not under the law Galatians 5:18 uh Romans chapter 6 okay let's stay with Galatians you like Galatians I get it so in Galatians 2 when Peter and John tell Paul do not neglect the poor and Paul says the very thing I was eager to do Galatians 2:10 do you know that Peter and John are instructing Paul to keep the law of God right there do you realize that oh this is in reference to uh Acts chapter 15 right no Galatians 2:10 Peter and John tell Paul do not neglect the poor Paul says the very thing which I was eager to do so yeah I mean how does that reference so he's there do you realize Peter and John are telling Paul to keep the law of God from Deuteronomy 15 right there I don't agree with you because Peter even says earlier in not to place the burden of of circumcision in the law on Gentile belie Deuteronomy Deuteronomy 15 is not the party of circumcisions message Deuteronomy 15 doesn't even talk about serpis you mean acts 15 nope Deuteronomy have you read the law have you studied have you had time to study the law of God not entirely okay okay brother so let me put something on screen and then uh maybe we can go from here maybe more productive line of questioning considering Paul because we're talking about Paul right like the one who wrote Galatians yeah this is this is what might be important so 1 Timothy chapter 1: 8-10 I don't know if Donnie's still here but if you are please throw this up this the Council of Jerusalem this is in reference to acts 15 I think Donnie may have taken off for a minute but so in 1 Timothy 8 1 Timothy chapter 1: 8 8-10 Paul says to Timothy we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully realizing that the fact that the law is not enacted for a righteous person but for those who are Lawless and rebellious the ungodly and the Sinners with the Unholy the profane those who kill their fathers and mothers the murderers the immoral men the homosexuals and perjurers whatever else is contrary to sound teaching so Paul just referenced a whole bunch of behaviors that are bad and said these are contrary to salm teaching he's training his Pastor Timothy Paul the apostles training up a pastor Timothy who's going to take over the church in I believe I can't remember which church in Asia Minor and he's expressing all these bad behaviors here and I've put in parenthesis the the laws from the Old Testament where he's expressing these bad behaviors and he says that all of these in all of these laws that he's saying make sure you abide that these people these ungodly people who transgress all of these laws and behave like this that is contrary to sound teaching so yeah do you understand that Paul is teaching from the law of God in saying that people who do this is the opposite of sound teaching so therefore that means people who don't do that uphold sound teaching which is that you're godly you're not a sinner you're obedient you're not Unholy you're set apart you're not profaning Yahweh you're actually keeping his commands in respect of his name you're not killing your father mother you're honoring them you're not murdering people you're loving them you're not immoral to people you're abstaining you know sexually and you're not homosexual you're abstaining from man man lying with a man and you're not a perjurer you're not lying to people by the way perjury lying to somebody it's also Leviticus 1911 which I asked you earlier and bearing witness all of that is sound teaching the law of God is sound teaching that Timothy is being taught by Paul yeah but you can teach moral attributes without requiring people to be under the law the law is written on our hearts and Minds this is what I was this is why I asked you before the debate I asked you what are def find is under the law because it's different if you're saying you're under the penalty of the law of sin and Punishment versus your obedience to God is following his instructions which is what the word law means just means instructions do you realize that the word law in Hebrew the word Torah the word you know the Torah it doesn't mean it's not a special word it's not some mystical concept it's not some like Voodoo that God in gave to the world and said oh you guys are I'm just going to give this to a certain people group for a certain time it's it's for every everyone to to know how to behave like God and so that your life goes well during your time here on Earth you know in your rebuttal you said to me I need to show you someone outside of Israel who was the law of God was imposed upon why did Jonah go to Nineveh to tell them to repent so they wouldn't be destroyed oh God commanded him to as a result of their immoral behaviors by what standard are they considered immoral behaviors man is always been held to what we call the Ten Commandments really is so in ancient Neva which used at that time during the days of Jonah was the capital of Babylon the Empire Babylon they were engaged in trafficking people okay they were engaged in kidnapping they were engaged in beastiality they were engaged in property theft they were engaged in War mongrain I could keep going there's a ton of laws that they were breaking that's not in the Ten Commandments that's it goes beyond that I mean like the spirit of the law as well I mean if they're obviously violating people's rights to you know right to life and so on and so forth I mean that's those are immoral acts that's pretty obvious I mean it's the same reason why God even judged uh the people during the days of Noah of their Immortal acts what was the definition of written on our hearts I mean when it comes to Ten Commandments and immoral acts it's naturally written on our hearts we know that it's wrong which why like Cain knew exactly what he did wrong when he killed his brother okay I love it you're right I love it it's it's actually already there Deuteronomy 247 like I mentioned earlier is about do not kidnap anybody which is what Paul repeats in Ephesians chapter 4 by the way so he's not teaching the Ten Commandments he's teaching do not kidnap people from other nations and do not kidnap your own people and sell them to other nations which is the instruction Deuteronomy 247 that's not in the Ten Commandments is that still okay to do if you're not under the law of course not okay then you agree with the law of God it's not an Act of Faith and love do you think that people should have a day of of rest from their vocation and not be worked too hard yeah I think it's a good idea okay then you agree with the law of God I agree with us being permitted to but we're not required to our Sabbath rest is in Christ yes so Isaiah 66 will disagree with you when you have a chance to study the you know the the big prophets in the Old Testament which Christ said he did not come to abolish but to fulfill to fully preach them and do them like study Isaiah some take some time to study Isaiah because brother the law of God is literally how he judges the Nations it's how he creates peace on the earth when he comes back well it's kind of hard to I mean I'm trying to word this right when Ro I believe it's in Romans chapter 6 when he tells us that we're dead unto sin it's hard to to judge someone against sin when we're dead to it and led by the spirit no dead to sin doesn't mean that you can no longer sin otherwise you'd be in contradiction of First John 18 well yeah of course have a quick response gentlemen we're a little bit over time and then Sean we're gonna jump into our concluding statement okay so Joshua feel free to have a quick response since Sean started the discussion and then we still got five minutes each though for concluding statements go ahead Josh well I I'll just say this Sean I appreciate conversation this has good I know it's probably not what you were expecting but hey man I still enjoyed it and I hope you did too josa it's so much better than just someone calling me a herotic the whole time you're awesome brother thank you I appreciate it and you guys have given me an easy job tonight to moderate very laid-back conversation so okay good job to the both of you nice solid roughly 25 minutes of free flowing discussion and we got 20 minutes of cross exam in there too so got the best of Both Worlds there so okay uh Sean we are going to jump into our five minute concluding statements and so to the audience you have exactly 10 minutes left to get your questions in get your challenges in for for our guests as we we'll be doing a an audience Q&A okay Sean whenever you're ready let me know and I'll start your timer okay just one second I'm gonna put this in the studio to share sure my computer is like locked in up right now I don't know what's going on one second okay here we go all right thank you okay so and uh Donnie while we go through this will you keep our faces on screen while I read through these real quick yes absolutely okay thank you all right so basically guys in closing I want to just bring up the scriptures on how God judges the Nations and this is important second ezis this is the prophet Ezra 5ifth Century BC verse chapter 13 37-38 then he that's my son will reprove the assembled Nations for their ungodliness and will reproach them to their face and it goes on to say and will destroy them without effort by means of the law high priest of Israel F Century BC Ezra Romans Chapter 2 we have the law of God in our hearts which is condemning or accusing us on the day that we stand judgment before Christ and even those who are not of Israel they still have a law unto themselves as I agree with Josh it's actually built into our conscience we're supposed to behave like our creator Romans chapter 3 Christ in in uh Romans chap 3:9 Paul goes on to say that we have already been made the we've already made the charge that Jews and Greeks are all alike under sin that's why we all need a savior he goes on to verse 19 and 20 to say that now that we know that whatever the law says it says to those who are under the law so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God who's held accountable to God the whole world because we know that whatever the law says it says to those who are under the law the whole world is expected to do the behavior of God the word law is not some Boogeyman it's literally the word instruction from your creator it's not a bad thing job 23 111-12 job not a part of Israel guess what he says he says he will go forth according to his Commandments he's kept his ways he will not turn aside from his Commandments that's God neither shall he transgress because he's hidden God's word in his bosom chapter 34 in job 26:27 he says God destroys the ungodly for they seen before him because they turned aside from the law of God and did not regard his ordinances this is job he's not talking about rebellious Israel during the days of job in my understanding uh Israel is in Goan at this point in captivity under Egypt job is talking about the Nations they turned aside from the law of God they're called the ungodly and he destroyed because they did not regard his ordinances Jonah chapter 3 as we already went through Nineveh repents they turns from their wied evil ways God accepts them because they stopped doing the ways of Babylon ways of rebelliousness and they started doing the law of God this is how they repented Jonah was mad that they repented the whole story is that he sent to someone he he had a Prejudice he hated ninevites because they had invited Assyria previously he didn't want to go out to them but because God told them to he actually went gave them the message an opportunity to repent they did and God had to chastise Jonah for having a bias against the Nations they also can follow the law of God and receive his mercy and favor in Genesis chapter 20 we see the law of God imposed in a situation here with ailec um taking the wife of Abraham and he's Angel shows up and like you're gonna be killed and abma's like look I've done this with the integrity and innocence of my hands because he hadn't touched her he hadn't actually committed fornication with her and committed adultery this is the whole circumstance in this in this chapter here is ailec was on the verge of committing mortal sin an angel shows up to warn him he lets Sarah go back to Abraham the law of God is in play it's literally the underpinning of this entire story with AMC and Abraham in Genesis 20 Isaiah chapter 2 like we read before all nations will come to the house of God in the last days and the ways of God will be shown forth his law will go forth from Zion and this is how Christ will judge between the Nations Isaiah 56 4-7 like I asked him earlier All Nations will come to his house to offer sacrifices on the altar of God His Holy Mountain Proverbs 28 says Those Who forsake the law praise the wicked but those who keep the law resist them I don't want to forsake the law I want to resist the wicked because the wicked are doing anti- Yahweh behavior I'm going to do pro- Yahweh Behavior pro- Christ Behavior Ecclesiastes 12:13 the end of the matter is this fear God and keep his Commandments this is the whole duty of man not just Israel whole duty of men second Brook 32 for1 but as for you if you prepare your hearts so as to sew in them the fruits of the law it shall protect you in the time which is the mighty on is to shake the whole creation that's Matthew 20 24 29-31 the day of the Lord the powers of the heaven are shaken 1 unoch Chapter 5 it's it's the day that the Holy One visits as as Jude repeats in Jude 114 everything is shaken and the ungodly receive their cpets because they did not prepare in their hearts the fruits of the law how did early Christians Define discipleship against heres book 4 12 irus the bishop of pliance he says for the tradition of the elders themselves which they pretend to observe from the law was contrary to the law given by Moses right off the bat in this chapter he's talking about the Pharisees he even goes on to name it he says that is they set up a spous law one contrary to the true law also the Lord made plain he said to them why do you transgress the Commandment of God for the sake of your tradition he's quoting from Mark 7 for not only by actual transgression did they set the law of God at nothing mingling the wine with the water but they also set up their own law in opposition to it which is termed even to the present day the physical God's law is good Christ preached that Christ reprimanded the Pharisees for imposing their own physical law this is what Paul is constantly arguing with in his journeys throughout Asia Minor he says arones goes on to say they were unwilling to be subject to the law of God which prepares them for the coming of Christ second century Bishop of lions irus in a book titled against heresies he's telling you the law of God prepares you for the coming of Christ he also says in demonstration of AP Apostolic preaching chapters 2 through three but Sinners are those who have the knowledge of God and keep not his Commandments that is disdainful scorners they' have sat in the seat of the pestilential now the pestilential those who are wicked and perverse doctrines corrupt them not only themselves but also others he goes on to say we must need holds the rule of faith without deviation and do the Commandments of God believing in God and fearing him as Lord and loving him as father the context here is not talking about the son it's talking about the father's Commandments fearing him as Lord and loving him as father very simple against seses Book 4ap 12 again AR says but he that's Jesus taught that they should obey the Commandments which God prescribed from the beginning against SES book two chapter 27 the Eternal fire for instance prepared for Sinners both the Lord has plainly declared and the rest of scripture demonstrate he goes on to say he prepared the Eternal fire from the beginning for those who afterwards were to transgress his Commandments this is after the cross this is 150 years after the Ascension of Christ chapter three he actually is expressing in chapter three a breakdown between the gnostics which is the mar maronites versus what they were teaching versus the truth so he goes on to say for all those who are of a perverse mind having been set against the Mosaic legislation judging it to be dissimilar and contrary to the doctrine of the Gospel have not applied them M themselves to investigate the causes of the differences of each Covenant just like tonight when I would ask certain questions to my brother he would say well I haven't studied that part yet it's very obvious because he's against the Mosaic legislation he thinks it's different from the doctrine of the Gospel it's not irus 150 years after Christ is telling you it's not different by the way irus the bishop of lions he literally is the guy that's responsible for writing like the cliff notes of the faith of what to expect when you get into the faith he's extremely well respected of early church fathers epistle to the Corinthians Clement of Rome says therefore righteousness and peace are departed from you because everyone's forsaken the fear of God has grown blind in his faith and nor do you walk by the rule of God's Commandments nor do you live as fitted in Christ this is him writing to the same Corinthians that Paul did and he's reprimanding them about 40 to 50 years after Paul's uh letters he then goes on to say in the same epistle to the Corinthians happy then shall we be beloved if we shall fulfill the Commandments of God in the unity of love so that through through love our sins may be forgiven to us so guys I want to thank you for my time and uh that's it I just want to encourage people law of God is not scary it's easy it's how we love people and and if you don't know how to love people that's why it's all detailed out for you it's not it's not a burden it's actually there for you for you to reference in your life the guide manual that God gave us through the prophets so thank you for my time and uh we'll get to the Q&A I suppose okay Sean appreciate the closing statement I wanted to be easygoing on the concluding statements for you guys as he had a comprehensive debate and a very easygoing back and forth discussion so seant that was eight minutes and 40 seconds and therefore Joshua will give you equal time and then we're GNA get into some audience questions we got some good ones here I will say to the audience with limited time with these audience Q&A we get so many questions that come in that we could literally do our Q&A periods for 10 hours and so we got about 30 minutes on the Q&A period so for those that want to make sure that their question is asked we will be bumping the super chats to the top I'm organizing them currently and I appreciate all the engagement and interaction uh in the chat great chat tonight okay Joshua we're gonna hand it over to you I am going to reset the timer and you have somewhere between eight and nine minutes go ahead okay I may not use all that but uh anyways yep I want to thank everybody for uh coming here and watching this debate I accidentally minimize that I want to let everyone know I apologize if I wasn't able to clarify or share or answer all questions thoroughly and U obvious obviously there's a lot of things I need to look at and study which I am not too proud to to say uh that's what we're all here for we're here to learn we're here to grow uh something like this is what pushes me to to uh further read and study the Bible so uh with that said I I do want to ensure though that everybody scripture explicitly tells us that we are not under the law as I've already shown and this always likes to mess with me as I've already shown by definition with Romans 6:14 and Galatians 5:18 no not literally means that we are not in any way under the law uh now is the law sin Paul tells us no the law is not sin why because the law was given uh for transgression or it was given to be a consciousness of sin it gives us an awareness of sin to know what is right and what is wrong wrong so when uh when it tells us that we're not under the law it tells us that we're no longer enslaved uh to uh the commands that were given uh by God at Mount Si that was given actually to the people of Israel and and we're no longer under the curse of the law as well we find rest we uh find Grace and love in Christ the law is fulfilled in us the moment we receive Christ and therefore what we need to do is live a holy uh uh life for God by fulfilling the Commandment that he gave us which was to love one another as I have loved you and greater love ha no manl that a man laay down his life for his friends all right which a new Commandment that he gave us was in John 13 and John 15 as well you can read that on your own time um uh this was brought up a little bit so I do want to bring it up it's actually something interesting that I want Galatians 5 is in reference to the conversation that was going on in Acts chapter 15 and uh just to give a little background acts 15 is where the believing Pharisees uh were trying to impose the circumcision and the law of Moses on Gentile Believers Peter tells them no let's not lay this a burden this yoke upon them as we and our fathers were unable to do and then uh James and the council all came to determine what they needed to do what Gentile Believers needed to do and that was to obain from Meats offer to Idols from blood and from being strangled and fornication but here's the interesting thing later on in that chapter James writes a letter and sends it out to the churches right and here's what he said in in verse 28 in accordance to his letter it said for it good to the Holy Ghost and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things that he abstain from Meats offered to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication from which he keep if you keep yourselves ye shall do well very ye well the term it seemed good here in the Greek is defined primarily to be of opinion think suppose after their own pleasure all right in the the Greek Lexicon it is contextually defined as personally it seems to me I.E it seemed good to or pleased me I determined so the decision that James and the rest of the Council made in relation to what believing Gentiles should obey was that of uncertainty their decision was primarily based on their own opinion to what pleased them supposing that this decision pleased the Holy Ghost as well so this decision that they made was not based on divine inspiration it was based on what pleased them thinking that it pleased the Holy Ghost as well all right although it is morally good to abstain from fornication from blood and things strangled Paul informs Us in 1 Corinthians chapter 8 that it is acceptable to eat Meats offer Idols uh I know this wasn't brought up but since I brought up I just kind of give a quick overview of it and and 1 Corinthians chapter 8 Paul basically tells us that it's perfectly fine to eat means offer the idols why because as a person who has knowledge and confidence in Christ we know that Idols are nothing and also foods which is a part of God's creation belongs to him so therefore we have nothing to worry he he also tells us in in another passage uh that if uh if this food is given to you and you have no knowledge of of it being for idols and so forth it's fine to eat but if if um if if you are told that it is food offered to Idols don't eat it refrain from it but he also tells us too that if you have a believing brother with you to refrain eat eating Meats offered to Idols if they have a weak conscience or lack the knowledge that we to have uh to not do it so as to not cause them to stumble or fall in the face but we are perfectly able to eat Meats offer to Idols even Jesus said in Mark chapter 7 which he's mainly talking about a good heart it's not what goes into the man that defiles a man it's what comes out of the man that defiles him and he gives in reference to Meats as well all meats are purged as they are come out of the drought all right the law in Israel as as I've shown the law was spefic specifically given only to Israel it was never given to anyone outside of the nation of Israel no one outside of Israel was required to keep this all right this was a law to govern them as a society just as we here in America have the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution we do not impose that upon others we uh it's not required by others to obey unless they are here visiting within our our land and so forth and the same for anyone else those who are required to obey the the laws and commands of God were those who were dwelling within the the nation of Israel and also wanted to participate in any of the c or any of the things that the nation of Israel practiced like the feasts and the Sabbath and so forth Galatians 3:17 oh mention that Leviticus 26: 45-46 says but I will for their sakes remember the Covenant of their ancestors whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the Heathen that I might be their God I am the Lord these are the statutes and judgments and laws which the Lord made between between him and the children of Israel in Mount Si by the hand of Moses Old Testament priest I've already shown you this was about uh Sabbath uh Sabbath was not given in Genesis chapter 2 Genesis chapter 2 is b is all it's doing is describing what God did at the end of his creation he rested or completed all of his work it's a description of what he did there's no prescription no one was required Adam wasn't required to keep a Sabbath Nei was Noah or Abraham um whether or not they practice we do not know scripture doesn't tell us the command for the Sabbath was not given until Exodus chapter 16 when God reigned Mana upon uh the nation of Israel for them to have and then commanded as part of uh ex as part of the Ten Commandments in Exodus chapter 20 he we do know that often times uh when the word Forever by the way is used in reference to things like this which often times it is the word forever doesn't always like Everlasting and eternal all right for for example when you look at uh the laws and so forth when it comes to a person who chooses to be in bondage if they continue to choose to be in bondage uh the next step is that they would have an all driven through their ear and that they and they would remain in bondage to their Master it says forever that doesn't literally mean eternally because it is appointed unto man once to die all right so it just means forever just means for a period of time I'm all right yes old New Testament uh Believers or you know Apostles they did practice the Sabbath it was something that was a tradition for them or and it's permitted it's not required because we find our Sabbath Rest In Christ 22nd okay thank you uh circumcision oh keep when it comes to keeping my Commandments that's in reference to Commandments that uh God gave Christ gave in those moments the lessons that he taught uh and so forth uh it's based on definition and other passages and since I only have a few seconds left I'll end it right there and thank you for your time everyone Joshua thank you very much for yes sir that concluding statement I appreciate the concluding statements from the both of you so gentlemen that wraps up our opening statements cross exams rebuttal discussion and concluding statements that was a comprehensive debate and that's what we need on these kinds of topics so for those those listening for those that love debates as much as we do and you're interested in participating or engaging in a debate on a topic such as this reach out and I'll uh I'll work out the details I know Joshua and Shawn are always looking for more debates so okay Gentlemen let's get into some of these audience questions we have as usual some fantastic questions to engage I'm excited to see how you guys are going to respond to them so okay we'll start from the beginning as close as possible to the beginning reminder as well we've got a link in the chat today uh today's debate.com so we're hoping to implement or utilize that more in the future all right here we go Lego my egoo and me $20 Super Chat question for Sean and so what we'll do gentlemen not your first time here whoever the question for gets the last word then that way we can move on smoothly so here we go Peter in Acts 15 explicitly says that Gentile Believers need only heed four things food polluted by Idols sexual immorality meat from strangled animals and blood does it mention anything in addition to that go ahead Sean does it mention anything add to that yeah it says that U for Moses's read since ancient times in the synagogues every Sabbath there's no reason to mention that and also we see in act 17 and 18 they're evangelizing in the synagogues throughout the Mediterranean if it wasn't understood that converts are going to the synagogues to hear Moses so if all the if these four things they need by the way which is from Moses's writings right Exodus Leviticus Deuteronomy Exodus 34:15 Deuteronomy 22: 13-30 and Leviticus 17: 10 through 14 encapsulate those four things those that's they're the Peter it's actually James speaking in Acts 15 that makes this declaration he's directly telling you four laws from Moses from the law of God that these new converts need to do now the the conver the uh context of this passage is actually back up in verse uh one and two where it talks about or I think it's verse five it says um Carl and Barnabas were debating with some men of the circumcision who came down and said that you must be circumcised to be saved and keep the customs of Moses right so you have to look at the Greek in there it's not the noos it's not the law of Moses look for the look you know don't you have to compare translations to find an accurate translation but it's keep the customs of Moses the Customs is the ethos in the Greek which is the Traditions the thing Christ reprimanded the Pharisees for the party of circumcision the Pharisee like I read from Aras the phic party who imposed their own traditions instead of the law of God so this is what started this a debate next 15 James makes the Declaration whoa whoa whoa we don't need to go and they don't have to be circumcised first they are already saved they already been given the Holy Spirit just as we have here's the first four things they need to be doing because what was going on in all these uh Mediterranean uh areas where Paul and Barnabas are going to evangelize they're Zeus worshippers they're they're Athena worshippers they're going in and having crazy sexual elicit behavior in the temples to Zeus and Athena so yeah the and it's all you know explained it's cannibalistic and it's extremely sexually immoral the things that were going on in these Pagan temples so this is why he says these are the first four things they needed to do Moses has read since ancient times in synagogues so they're going to hear the rest and this is why the rest of James Peter John and Paul's teachings throughout all their epistle letters expounds on greater discipleship than just these four things great question thank you Sean Joshua over to you um I would say no obviously I just shared this with in my last uh rebuttal with the council at Jerusalem and so forth yes they told them to abstain from Meats offer to idols and from blood and so forth but as I showed you this was a decision that James and the Council made based on what seemed good to them it was of their own opinion this was not divinely inspired by the holy spirit so oh they weren't unnecessarily commanded through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit to keep these Commandments as part of the law and what not this was once again a decision that James and the Council made because it seemed good to them for them to for Gentile Believers to abide by this and they thought that it also uh seemed good to the Holy Ghost to do it as well and so forth so uh obviously there's nothing wrong with uh obing from Meats offer the idols and from blood and I because blood has you know all kinds of can have all kinds of diseases and sicknesses in him and so forth so you obviously want to make sure that you avoid stuff like that things strangled and from obious obviously fornication uh because once again well Paul said that the law is not sin but it is obviously a good way for us to guide us in our life it brings the awareness or the consciousness of sin and to guide us in our lives I'll leave it at that thank you Josh Sean you get the last word go ahead yeah um it seemed good to the holy spirit because it is Holy Spirit lad um this is what if if only the Holy Spirit taught us to do discipleship and which what things to do then we wouldn't need the apostolic letters you wouldn't need Christ actually teaching his disciples he would have just given them the Holy Spirit he would you wouldn't need you know everything that we see as far as discipleship from the apostles and all their letters which is they're constantly teaching discipleship the entire first letter of Corinthians is Paul reprimanding the Believers of Macedonia in Corinth for being bad disciples he has to constantly remind them of the behavior that's expected of them as a disciple of Christ so they're not being prompted by the holy spirit because discipleship the hierarchical level of pastors and deacons and trained teachers and Elders that's a lawful thing that we see all the way back in Exodus 18 it's a part of how God delivers information through a hierarchy this is an approved concept of his Torah so that's why it's needed and the Holy Spirit enables people through gifts of the Spirit given through Christ enables people to F work these out in their life with fear and trembling good question thank you Sean for that final word okay we got one for you now Joshua comes in from Jeremy McGary $50 Super Chat appreciate the the support for the ministry and also for tonight's debate it's been a great debate tonight okay question for you Joshua you've said the law is a burden but first John 53 says for this is the love of God that we keep his Commandments and his Commandments are not burdensome is keeping the Sabbath a burden or any Commandments a burden well if you look I shared with you in Galatians uh 51 that Paul does say that the law is a burden it is a yoke of bondage it literally enslaved uh the people to a life of living under the law as long as the curse among it and when it comes to First John 53 uh for this is the love of God that we keep his Commandments and his Commandments are not Grievious his Commandments are not in reference to the Ten Commandments or any of the laws that were given at the Mount Si this is in reference to everything that he taught to um his Apostles his disciples and so forth you know to for example to wash each other's feet to love one another as I have loved you in fact if you go back even just a couple chapters or U maybe it's it's either at the chap at the end of chapter 3 or chapter 2 I'm going to say it's chapter 3 okay oh yeah and he goes in verse three sorry chapter 3: 23 he says and this is his Commandment that we should believe on the name of his son Jesus Christ and love one another as he gave his commandment and he that keepeth his Commandments this is in reference to what he just said in verse 23 dwelleth in him and he in him and hereby we know that he abideth in Us by the spirit which Heath given us and for in reference to the Sabbath I mean is it burdensome I mean taking a day of rest I don't see how that's burdensome but everything that the that they were required to do who and when it comes of peace and so forth and everything everything that they had to abide by in particular I would say yeah was burdensome okay thank you Joshua Sean over to you sure yeah the context of First John 51 through3 as is actually I read 1 through four is this everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God the Father God and everyone who loves the father also loves those born of him father's mentioned three times now in the first verse verse Two by this we know that the love of God the love we love the children of God when we love God and keep his Commandments for this is the love of God that we keep his Commandments and his Commandments are not burdensome nine times the father's referenced in the first three verses verse four because everyone born of God overcomes the world and this is the victory that has overcome the world our faith it's the Commandments of the father is the context of First John 5 as far as being a burden to the Sabbath of course not how could taking a day off of work be a burden you just take a day off work you don't work for your own profit you don't make other people work for you it's literally the easiest commandment in the entire Bible I've I've with I've restrained from uh looking on a woman with lust with more difficulty than it takes for me to just abide in the Sabbath and just not work that day like it's literally and as far as the feast days those are actually celebrations of Joy like it's you know that's that's a that's a wonderful beautiful occasion this is literally what we're drawn to in Matthew 22 1-4 at the great feast of God at the resurrection as we're brought to the Passover this is what Christ taught in Luke 22 when the Passover is fulfilled in the kingdom of God this is what's prophesied in Jeremiah 31 verses 7-9 in the septu agent that the Passover is what all nations are brought for or brought uh to Zion for is the Feast of God they won't be a burden they'll be celebrated by All Nations because they're the feasts of God to be celebrated with joy it's a great question thank you Sean for the response Joshua question was for you this time so you get the last word go ahead all right uh so once again in relation to chapter five and this is his commandment you even need to go back in the previous uh chapter verse four sorry chapter 4 verse 21 and this commandment have we from him that he who loveth God loveth also his brother so once again that's the same in reference to what I shared with you at the end of chapter three which is you know to love Christ receive him as your lord and savior and to love others as as Christ loved us okay thank you Josh next one comes in from Titus $6 Super Chat appreciate the support and nobody specific so we'll work through it together and figure out who it's for where in the law of Moses does it command you to invoke the name of Jesus for you to be saved does Moses know about this command mentioned in his Torah um we'll consider it a question for the both of you so Josh you had the last word on the previous one and so this time we'll give it to Sean Josh we'll start with you all right we're in the law of Moses does command you to invoke the name of Jesus I'm not aware of any that doesn't mean that scripture doesn't say it's just something that I have to look into so I'm not saying it does I'm not saying it doesn't and but uh what I will say that Moses did proclaim the coming of Christ everything that they were to practice when it came to things that were ceremonial and so forth was a shadow of good things to come so as they practice this keeping the Sabbath uh doing the feast and so forth they were to look to and remember their coming Messiah and what he was going to do or the practicing of giving sacrifices you know all the shedding of his blood and so on and so forth so everything they did in practice uh when it came to the laws and so forth was a shadow of things to come in where they were to place their faith in Christ who was to come to fulfill all of these things thank you Josh Sean over to you sure um it's uh the law of Moses I don't know if this is if uh the person asking the question is asking from a frame of Judaism Judaism calls the first five books in the pentat the law of Moses um even though it was actually not technically written by the hand of Moses that's a that's a big debate but there's a lot of lot of um evidence there about all these scribes over time who put anachronistic details in there and of course the ends of the end of Deuteronomy that Moses was already referencing Moses's death so we know that it's not all written by Moses if any of it it's given author it's given reference to Moses since he was the leader of the people at the time just like all the scriptures were restored under Ezra in the fifth century BC but we don't as tradition they don't generically refer to them as the scriptures of Moses or the the scriptures of Ezra or the laws of Ezra so this is why um Moses had this incredible moment Nexus Mount Si with with h God's voice of thunder and Fire on the Mountain so this is why he's propagated in Judaism as almost to idolatrous status and they they reference this as the law of Moses but Christ reference all the law and the prophets and the Psalms those are the things he called the scriptures and in Deuteronomy 18 it references um the idea that a prophet likened unto Moses would be risen that we should listen to him not a prophet who did different Behavior than Moses who abandoned the law of Moses or the law of God that Moses followed but a prophet like Moses means he did the behavior of Moses that's Christ this is the one we should listen to also in Deuteronomy 32 in the SE two agent it mentions that the expectation of the Gentiles will be this figure that rises so that's it's not explicitly stated um within the first five pit took but in the law and the prophets in the Psalms it's explicitly stated take check up my opening um put it on half speed if needed because I actually go through some historical quotes from first century Church fathers whom first and second century whom were talking about how the subagent in their day was being redacted in real time and they have the original quotes from Isaiah and Jeremiah that prophesied Christ as a son I also read a prophecy from Ezra himself in Ezra chapter 2 where in Chapter 16 where it talked about Christ saves us resurrects us gives us a rose of right as well as we are in his name which is his authority and in in the name of this son All Nations will be judged through the law so that's high priest Ezra of the fifth century BC Israel so in the law of the prophets and the Psalms Christ we are emphatically told the Son of God will be sent to be the Messiah the Redeemer the elect one of the of the almighty and that we are to believe in him trust in him take his teachings and apply them to our life and that's how we can expect salvation on the day of the Lord so it's a great question thank you for the response Sean okay next one comes in from CH $10 Super Chat and it is a question for both and so this time we'll start with you Sean and Josh that way you get the last word okay here we go so question for for both how do you handle Matthew 5: 27 and 28 Jesus fulfilled the law but added to the Ten Commandments to be more difficult it was never about the law Sean what are your thoughts how do you handle Matthew 5:27 through 28 Jesus fulfilled the law but added to the Ten Commandments no he didn't okay so this is another um misunderstanding because of you know prominent Protestant teachings have said that the Pharisees were keeping the law Christ came and up the bar and said that oh that that righteousness is is poo poo you need to do better than that put your faith in me but actually don't have to do anything that they did which was poooo um which the the whole Paradigm that's taught in most modern Protestant churches is backward the Pharisees were not keeping the law at all this is why Christ came to say youve you've heard it said but I tell you this is why Mark chapter 7 he reprimands the phes he's saying Isaiah was correct in prophesying about you that you guys mix wine with water that your Doctrine is mixed and mingled with your own Traditions that you set aside the traditions of God for or the Commandments of God for your own personal traditions this is the quote I read from araus earlier that they literally made up their own pharisaic law SP the oral Torah and the implication of that through the Pharisees that they were imposing on the people and not actually doing the commands of God so whenever you see Jesus in Matthew 5 and6 saying you've heard it said but I tell you he's actually preaching the law of God and reprimanding the Pharisees that's why from the moment he starts on the mount on the on the The Sermon on the Mount going forward that's why they immediately start wanting to kill him because he was publicly shaming them for their bad teachings everywhere he went so anyway thank you it's that's that's all I got on that one thank you thank you Sean Joshua floor is yours go ahead oh Josh you're on mute but you're good now so if you can restart your answer go ahead yeah I from what we can see in scripture what Jesus is teaching is going yes I mean part part of law uh committing adultery isn't just committing the physical act we also need to practice the spirit of the law which is going even further and not to commit adultery within our hearts lusting after or other women and so forth so it's not it's not adding to the Ten Commandments it's understanding that there is a deeper uh belief and uh and understanding to what's being taught there even James kind of alludes to this when it comes to lust and uh and how it ends up being fulfilled how we end up uh giving into that sin it starts in the mind and in the heart which then comes out physically and when we dwell on those thoughts and so forth so take a look at the Book of James I can't remember exactly what chapter it is maybe Sean remembers but um yeah it's just practicing just the spirit of the law as well you know not not to just stop at committing adultery at the physical act but not doing it within our heart and mind okay thank you Joshua for the response all right moving on here now we've got one for Sean another one from Lego my egoo me $10 Super Chat appreciate the support which laws of Moses did Abraham follow to be made righteous in Genesis 15 5 to6 uh he was a priest Genesis 265 tells us he kept the charge of the almighty that's a Hebrew word for a priest this is why in Genesis 15 he actually creates an altar like a cre a priest so he would do with UNH Stone as Exodus 23 talks about and uh or I think yeah Exodus 20 23 at the end there he had built that altar with UNH Stone he also knew which type of wood to bring forward as the priest did as well as which types of uh animals to bring forward for that priest and how to arrange them on the altar um so that it would be accepted by God so all of that is explained to you in Leviticus 1-7 as far as what a priest does when preparing an altar that is accepted by God Genesis 15 the altar is accepted by God he obviously did this in faith just like all the priests of Yahweh are supposed to do this with an upright heart in faith and not duplicitously so he's Justified because he was considered righteous in the moment that he he knew what to do he's been trained in the priesthood he's doing it properly and his offering was accepted and we have a wonderful Covenant moment between Yahweh and Abraham great question all right thank you Sean and Joshua over to you all right Genesis 155 and6 Abraham is not obeying any law that allows him to be justified what he why he's being justified is a result of believing uh when it says in verse six and he believed in the Lord and he counted it to him for righteousness well what did he believe well it tells us here in the verse couple verses and behold the word of the Lord came unto him saying this shall not be thine he that's referring to Ishmael but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine Heir there speaking of Isaac and he brought him forth abroad and said look now toward heaven and tell the Stars if thou be able to number them he said unto them so shall thy seed be which we know in New Testament thy seed is in reference to Jesus Christ so because he placed his faith in the seed that come that God promised to him this is why he received or was counted for righteousness thank you Josh and Sean you get the last word go ahead oh I'm I'm good with my first answer but thank you okay appreciate it okay I think we got two more and then we're gonna wrap it up as we want to wrap it up at the 11m Mark and so okay here we go looks like this is for you Sean as Titus in the chat has clarified so here we go question for you if the law of Moses is perfect why is is it a shadow yeah it's the it's not the law of Moses it's the law of God given to the prophet Moses and subsequently to lots of other people before and after Moses and Psalm 197 says the law of the Lord is perfect Reviving The Soul It also says that it's uh Eternal and everlasting in Psalm 119 veres 142 and in 160 and so it's Eternal it's Everlasting is perfected but we are frail and Mortal we have sin in our lives we're not perfect and so we fail when we do it right this is why the fullness the completion I'm guessing he's using the term Shadow based off of Colossians chapter 3 you know the idea of the the sabbaths the new moons and the and the the feasts being a a shadow of what's to come yeah because we can't keep them perfectly now we try we do our best in honor to the father but when the kingdom comes all those instructions all those sabbaths I talked about L 23 all the new moons Isaiah 661 17-23 Sabbath day is the weekly and the periodic Fe seasonal sacred assemblies all of them all nations will be required to learn and do study Zechariah chter 14: 15- 21 All Nations will come forward for the Feast of God all nations will be gathered for the Passover themselves at the Fulfillment of the Kingdom Come that's the true reality when everyone can do it correctly all the circumstances are here right now we see in part we prophesy in part we do our best right now because not the the fullness of the Kingdom Come is not here here yet right now we do it in faith which is why we're told by Yahweh to practice these things in Leviticus 184 and5 so it's a great question thank you Sean Joshua over to you yeah the law Moses perfect wi is it a shadow yes I agree the law is perfect we're told in Scripture that it is perfect and holy but the problem is is that uh it brought uh it brought people of the nation of Israel into bondage and uh and a curse and so forth and the reason why it's a shadow is when you look at Hebrews chapter 10 I don't know what this individual is referencing to but Hebrews chapter 10 is a good passage and it tells us why for the law having a shadow of good things to come and not the very image of the things can never with those sacrifices which they offered Year bye continually make the comers there unto perfect for then would they not have ceased to be offered because that worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins but in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year for it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats should take away sins all right so the law is as a shadow because it was once again as I said it earlier it was a Christ is the substance so as they practiced the law as they did all these sacrifices and feasts they were to place their faith in the one who was the substance of all these things to acknowledge that this is was that this is Christ these are the things that he was going to fulfill uh to bring us uh uh remission of sins and salvation through him thank you Josh Sean you get the last word go ahead yeah so that passage in Hebrews is actually talking about again after the resurrection we'll be able to complete these things because the kingdom shows up but let's let's give some immediate context to um the verse that he tried to read there is in Hebrews chapter 8 1-2 it says that Christ the point of what we're seeing is this that Christ is a minister in the true Tabernacle not made by human hands but established by the Lord in the heavens above so this is Hebrews 4:15 he ascended through the firmaments through the heavens and Hebrews 81 tells us where he is doing his Priestly job before us so you cannot be a minister in in yahweh's Temple without a law priests specifically High priests Minister a law this is what the definition of the word Temple is the definition of the word high priest and the definition of the word minister in Hebrews 81 and2 and also if you read further on in Hebrews 9: 22 and 23 tells us that there are now better sacrifices because Christ has been ear his stre at this altar so yes the ones on the ground were Shadow but now there's better so that's my that's my add-on thank you thank you Sean and we are down to our final question for tonight's debate and it's another one from Titus and it's for you Shan so we're getting a mini Sean Griffin vers Titus debate here so here we go here's the question if others fulfill the law then what is the point of Christ yeah Titus your whole premise ignores a whole bunch of things in scripture uh for one you'd have to understand why people in scripture are called righteous who did the law how righteousness is associated with the behavior of the law this is what I brought up in some of my first opening statements go back and check them out the word fulfilled in Matthew 51 17-20 which is I I brought up earlier multiple times is the word PES which does not mean abolish it does not mean complete its body else has to do it it means he actually did it himself he fully preached it he accomplished it he did it present tense active it doesn't mean that he did it so that no one else could do it if that was the case then after he's done then all of his disciples can go murder steal commit adultery lay with animals do all the stuff the losses don't do so the whole premise of the question is not understanding the definition of the word fulfilled in the Greek and assuming that Christ did something so that we don't have to that's dispensation theology that's modern Protestant teaching that is not scripture Christ emphatically tells us to be righteous just like 1 John 3 says he who is righteous does righteousness that's the requirement for the saints of God and uh and for you Titus thank you Sean Josh floor is yours yeah uh no one else has fulfilled the law the only one who ever did was Jesus Christ if anyone else fulfilled it then they would be like him and would need no need for him in fact Christ would be pointless I agree with with Titus um to be righteous yes there are people in scripture who are considered righteous but if you look at the definition of what righteous means someone can be considered uh absolutely righteous or relatively righteous and as we can see when you look at the lives of those who are considered righteous like David and Zacharias and so forth we can see that they are re relatively righteous but not perfectly righteous because we see throughout their lives where sins that they have committed that was a violation of God's law and so forth so oh I would agree with Titus no one else has fulfilled the law except Christ he was the only one who was able to thank you Josh Sean you get the last word uh I'm good my first one was good thank you though okay we got a Bonus question here that just came in from one of your biggest fans actually both of you SoCal Preston so we will sneak this one in consider this an after credits Super Chat question then we're wrapping it up because we do want to wrap it up at the three-hour Mark and so okay here we go it's a question for both so Shan got the last word on the last couple with Titus so what we'll do I guess is start with you Sean and then Josh you can have a final word here okay SoCal presson $10 Super Chat question for the both of you acts 21:25 as touching the Gentiles which believe we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing what does verse 2 4 say Paul should observe but Gentiles not to go ahead Sean he doesn't that's a false dichotomy U David because you're reading from the King James which has a specific wording it says as touching the Gentiles which believe we have written and concluded they should observe no such thing except for only that they keep themselves from offered to idols and from blood and strangled from fornication other other translations have a don't even have that phrase in there and they say but regarding the Gentiles who have believed we've sent a letter having decided they should abstain from Meet sacrificed Idols from blood from strangled from sexual Morality In fact your No Such Thing translation is the minority of the translations and I I I need to do some deeper look into where it's coming from but none of the other translations say that so that's very curious I say personally I I would imagine that it's actually telling them to observe no such thing and then list the things off that they should not observe to me that seems much more much more appropriate to the context because they just explained how they have all these converts who are zealous for the law and that Paul's suppos to take them with them to the temple to observe a number six vow which is part of the law that they're just challenging Paul on the rumors that he's teaching against the law that he needs to prove he's not doing that so again why would they ask Paul so let's look at the logic David of your question why would they ask Paul to go prove he's teaching the law when he's off on his missionary Journeys if they're telling you well wait wait we've told you not to tell them only to teach this part these four things from the the law nothing else but in but why would they ask him to prove himself that he's also walking and teaching orderly according to the law that's the whole premise that they're actually I mean again and let's go back to my previous answer from the other question earlier the first question if those four things were the only thing that James told all new converts that are non-israelites to obey those four things then that means what they can go murder they can go steal they can go rape can go commit adultery what are we saying here bcity is not mentioned in the New Testament is that still on the table because that's not including these four things either so what are you actually proposing that James said only these four things it makes no sense again this is why the context is rest of the New Testament James John Peter and Paul are teaching emphatically everything from the law of God this is the right behavior that converts are supposed to abide in so that's uh I would say there's a translation issue you need to investigate and there's hermeneutic presupposition that's contrary to the rest of the New Testament great question David thank you Sean and Joshua go ahead um I'll answer this best I can from what I'm seeing uh yeah Paul is uh being tested on whether or not he keeps the law and uh is requested to uh participate in this um I don't know what you want to call the ritual I'm trying to remember exactly what they were doing doing I know had something to do like what Samson did or who he was and you guys remember off the top of your head I apolog all right gentlemen that wraps up the Q&A and the debate so excellent debate comprehensive and Sean Joshua I appreciate your uh time and also the time energy effort and work put into the preparation of this debate okay gentlemen appreciate you doing this and we're going to wrap it up I'm going to let you gentlemen out of here to enjoy the rest of your weekend Sean Joshua thanks so much y thank you thank you sir okay there we go Joshua and Sean and okay there's another one in the books I appreciate everybody in the live chat tonight on both channels as we were simoc casting tonight's fantastic debate are Christians under the law we've hosted at least a few at least three I think on this topic so for those who are interested in debating this topic feel free to reach out to me as I wouldn't mind hosting some more definitely an interesting topic so for those interested reach out and I will do my best to work out the necessary details to get some debates going and not just this topic but that goes for the nature of God soteriology esqu ology science all things theology so we want to finish this year off with a bang as I've been doing my best to give you all a summer of Epic debate Showdown so we just concluded another week of five events so you guys are the life and blood of this channel this is a listener supported Ministry and I do my best to give everybody at least five Live Events a week and then also plenty of premieres and videos and clips for people to to enjoy and so we kicked off the week with an end part three of a three-part series with Dr Carl Werner excellent series I really enjoyed it comprehensive please do check it out if you have not yet seen it the first two episodes expose the fraud of human evolution with groundbreaking information based on Dr Carl werner's work over many many years and his uh two new books that came out uh part three this week was living fossils dismantling Evolution truly fascinating information in this uh in this talk and discussion so please if you have not yet seen it check it out that was at the uh beginning of the week I continued my response to John Perry and stated clearly on the so-called best evidence for evolution and by Evolution the evolutionist mean that whales pine trees humans and banana plants are related through common ancestry so I continued my response to his video on what many evolutionists say is the best evidence for common descent endogenous retroviruses so if you have not yet seen that please do check it out very important to reut their best so-called arguments then I was here with Dr Bergman a really fantastic show we covered a lot of ground and Dr Bergman he's got nine degrees he's been studying this for many years he's written several books countless articles he's done formal debates and he's an encyclopedia worth of information on this topic and so he exposed the truth about Darwinism and evolution and again we covered a lot of ground a lot of interesting topics including the so-called gulo pseudo Gene pseudo genes in general the argument from Bad design that atheists like to look to and uh the why chromosomes in the primates just a really great show for people to to enjoy uh last night we had a debate on the deity of Christ does Hebrews teach the deity of Christ between Anthony Rogers and Andrew Griffin that was also a fantastic debate it's been a weekend of fun in terms of debate and so check that one out again that was on uh Hebrews does Hebrews teach the deity of Christ and of course tonight are Christians under the law Shan Griffin and Joshua pedit so again to those in the chat that sent in super chats showed some love for tonight's debate I do want to thank you for that and okay the next week no difference going to be an epic week of events we're kicking off the week with the great Millennium debate between Dr Sam frost and Dr George Antonios both of these gentlemen know their stuff very knowledgeable and also excellent Debaters so this is going to be a millennium debate to remember hit that notification Bell if you're not yet subscribed hit that subscribe button because we have a ton of Epic debates coming at you over the next several months I do like to book a few months in advance again since we're doing this full-time we want to give you full-time content and we want to be prepared uh each month to give you epic content so we've got the great Millennium debate we've also got an interview here that I am extremely excited for Sam my award-winning co-host will be joining me and we will be having a discussion here with Jennifer N on her journey she has a truly fascinating testimony I'm excited to discuss it from Psychic to Christian irrefutable undeniable amazing evidence for the supernatural we're going to be discussing demons mediums psychics what are psychics really about who are they really talking to what's going on there and I've looked into her testimony watched several videos I've got her book and this is going to be an excellent show that you're not going to want to miss all things Supernatural the critics the Skeptics just impossible for them to address the kind of material and information that's going to be discussed here in this show then we've also got another talk with Dr Peter line neuroscientist PhD is going to demolish human evolution by looking to the human brain and Dr Peter L's been here before he's a visiting scientist at standing for Truth Ministries and so I'm excited for that one and we'll be wrapping up the week again another five shows for people to enjoy endless content to keep you guys edified to keep you busy and to keep you happy and so another Millennium debate this one truly the great Millennium debate Lucas Kio Keith fosy this will be next Saturday Saturday afternoon Showdown actually this will be at 3M es Lucas and Keith both excellent debaters and again another couple guests here that know their stuff they studied uh end times Theology and the Millennium very extensively they're diligent in their study Keith holds to a millennialism Lucas holds to premillennialism and so they're going to be duking it out here in the debate octagon and so guys that's just a snapshot of the overall material that we have for you coming up that is just uh next week and then I covered or went over this previous week's worth of shows and so we're going to wrap it up there I hope everybody has enjoyed this weekend worth of debates uh last night being a debate on the deity of Christ tonight being on the question are Christians under the law and okay everybody thank you so much for tuning in I appreciate it always fun in our Lively live chats and always a fantastic audience Q&A with a good variety of questions on top of questions so with that again thanks for tuning in God bless all please enjoy the rest of your weekend be safe and standing for truth is out [Music]