how much money do I need to start a coffee shop say 2,000 square ft Prime vandra lavel Road wasant KJ 80 lakhs to a CR yeah yeah more man I think more 2,000 square ft yeah it depends how fancy you wanted to look sub [Laughter] to yeah core and a half I would say this M yeah that's doable though yeah but it could be done also like it depends if you're not don't get the best equipment like get mid lower lower kind of equipment it could be done even for less but you look at a place like Go's example again grind bar they've got a decent machine they've got a linear mini they've not spent too much on doing it up but it's done very nicely though yeah super dice coffee shop yeah what is this super cfee between Arabica and Robusta in India do we grow more Robusta than araba and why is araba better than robuster me mat Matt you first tastes better I mean that's a simple answer or more because India doesn't have the altitude that other countries have so most of the coffee growing areas are at a lower altitude where Roba does better than AR yeah and interestingly what's been viewed as like a disadvantage in in the past when it comes to Robusta being uh more prominently and successfully fully grown at a high standard in India and Vietnam which are the I believe still the two biggest producers yeah today um with the effects of climate change kicking in there are a lot of theories that say that India might emerge a winner because the taller altitude uh growing regions will get hotter which will make Arabica less and less viable so theoretically that means that Robusta can withstand more heat at lower altitudes and so it could be an interesting opportunity for Indian Robusta in the future but uh I think what's interesting about India is that you actually have like multiple species of coffee growing in in the same region so you have araba you have Robusta you even have species that's kind of a hybrid of the two in some sense called excelsa There's liberica so I think that makes India quite unique because a lot of other growing Nations don't have that amount of diversity is sustainability still an angle if I start a coffee store shop and say I'm the most sustainable in every element will I attract an audience you will attract the audience but it's niche I don't think you can that can't be the backbone of it it can't okay I'm going to ask you some really specific questions okay we did some research online steps to start a coffee shop ignoring the generic stuff like Define your concept target audience market research how to estimate costs secure funding all of that can I ask you specifically where I would go about hiring I need 10 people to work a barista servers this that and the other where do I hire them any competition from them how do I find your employees to hire you can just walk into a store walk into a blue toai sub and ask them what's typical pay scale like is there not like a Bist or school or something that you can reach out to to get train they train them just take from them you can just post on LinkedIn and people like it's um it's an industry where people will switch companies for relatively low increase in Pay H what's the typical pay starting anywhere from 21 up to 28k h a month 8 hour shift 8 hour shift 5 days a week but I'd say that that bracket is rapidly increasing um because I think increasingly Baristas are falling into more of the categorization that a um an expert kind of cocktail mixologist a mixologist would be than a typical maybe server would be um so there's this whole new categorization I think with mixologist and Baristas that's kind of um being formed so that's an interesting phenomenon as well and I think so I do think that pay scale is increasing and so all of these things impact kind of the the premium premiumization of the segment that's happening and the cost that have to be passed on is there a size you guys have realized by virtue of experience that works should a coffee shop be 1,000 2,000 3,000 5,000 s fet th000 1,000 yeah thousand H you'd say including a kitchen we don't have kitchens so for us it's thousand why is that 2,000 the capex becomes too large to fit it out m uh and the incremental revenue is not justifying the increase in rent as well uh below 800 then tables become occupied and people don't want to wait for a coffee shop though if they see it's full they'll just go to somewhere else okay is there something that you would like to recommend in terms of equipment now I'm assuming I've decided to open a coffee shop I have one two CR rupees that I've borrowed I have found the space in any recomend Commendation in terms of finding the space what areas tend to do well the areas you think would do well the the higher density areas definitely the place that has a mix of office plus residential pure office then you get limited to only five days a week business night business is very low but you still have to pay the same rental pure residential is also can work but you need very good catchment dense catchment um but if you were to think of of I mean for us it's the tends to be the posher areas where rents are above a certain threshold where parking parking is not necessarily a requirement no don't most people drive to a coffee shop depends like in in Bombay our stores have uh very little parking and still but delivery share is also higher in Bombay and that helps uh balance it what share of business is delivery I'm assuming when a coffee travels with a delivery guy it doesn't reach the client at Optimum temperature but people are willing to have that trade-off for theeni it I microwave and I order yeah even like a cappuccino will never come with foam on it but people accept that we're at 35% of the revenue is delivery is that the same for you um in terms of the results on the in terms of how much revenue is delivery and how much is in store not quite as high I think delivery is lesser still first 20% yeah in terms of Machinery now I've done I found a space I've done my FIT out I've spent 9,000 bucks a square fet it's a 1,000 square ft store now I need to buy equipment to make craft coffee and be commercially viable and make money from this project what equipment should I buy God there's such a big range what equipment do you guys buy I think we would we buy it from the same similar Brands Lama zoko I think you also have all Lama zoko we have larok slay you do have com couple of different machines but yeah but it's also a it becomes a signal it's not to say on a lower a cheaper machine you can't produce good quality coffee I think the variability is much higher on a lower quality machine so the consistency won't be the same you'll have to have much better Baristas who are able to operate that equipment to get the same consistency so who should I buy it from they're Distributors so they have they have distribution agreements with like and your service is dependent on which distributor you use yeah yeah is there anyone you guys would like to recommend M we've been working with yeah this 31 engineering uh it's a small company and the guy the owner is very actively involved and they do a good job yeah yeah we've been working with them for year I mean so actually we used to import them directly and do the servicing ourselves and then we've transitioned to buying from him is there no Indian brand doing this making coffee machines no please don't buy any Indian coffee machine if you come across it they've tried they've tried for especially on the automatic side a couple people have tried Why didn't it work quality and consistency is not comparable to the equivalent Chinese or uh European manufacturers that takes us to China yeah what all can I learn as a 20 5 year old or buy from China or learn from China if I'm starting a tonic soda ginger ale Kucha coffee brand what can I use from China so a couple of things uh when we went from sort of say from a zero to manufacturing at a slightly larger scale than that there were a couple of options available for us in terms of bottling machines right filling machines and say there were some Indian options available there were some Chinese option available than the American options available Indian options were cheap Chinese options looked the best and were cheap American options were straight up expensive yeah of course so your eye automatically goes to getting Chinese machine through experience on on some front uh and through talking to a lot of people in the industry they say very very please don't get a Chinese machine because now now on Hind side we realize this that the smaller segment machines you have to Baby them a lot regardless of whom you get the machine from even uh carbonated beverage bottling line the broader pressure temperature all of this plays a very very important role in how that machine is going to function consistently is it going to give you the speeds at which you want to manufacture I would say my recommendation is start small get a machine from the nearest person that's available who will will reach you immediately if there is an issue and then maybe move on to larger more imported machines or American machines I wouldn't I would refrain from getting something from China because service becomes a very big problem though they very prompt with service it's and most things are solved over a call but if you have if you need a spare part it always needs to be imported it becomes really really challenging so to start off with until you understand the process until you understand the product I would say work with a local smaller Manu facturer even if the machine is not good you will figure out a way to learn about the product and learn about the machine enough for you to be able to operate it and get to a particular scale after which you can invest couple of things learning I think on a product standpoint learn from the US look at a website like a bevet that does every bever story and learn so much on Trends from there see what's happening in Japan see what's happening in South Korea those are markets to really look at on equipment thing because India has so much Pharma and all of that we have enough suppliers here for everything good quality guys so we use all local stuff this quality and all is not an issue service is not an issue so on beverage manufacturing we have enough options here there's we have a hch line hch Engineers pretty H is high is pretty good he's known to be reliable he's been doing this for a really long time they do bigger plans for yeah bigger Bott make is really good expensive but very good if I were to ask you both a question don't name yourself if you had to go to a coffee shop in India which is neither blue Toco or subco which is your favorite quick brown fox is the Delhi company that I go to yeah quick brown fox it's only in Delhi yeah well damn there's a fun one I can't wait to hear what you say so tough huh spot dude I mean there's a bunch of there's a bunch of names coming up wow I I recently had a very good pourover from a brand in bandra called gry soul gry soul gry soul yeah nice PS zero Vibe though yeah I mean no comment on that but but good por coffee um a lot of good shops in goodth that open up surprisingly oh yeah you wouldn't expect in like which one I'm going to Amad this week oh yeah in Amad there's a couple there's which is good is good yeah um so many smaller towns nakur has such a good coffee scene yeah yeah yeah there's a coro7 in was that the one in that's in Delhi I think corab kabi coffee yeah um Bangalore wise I guess ground up I mean does that multi roer who's that that nurlu Cafe they multi is quite popular ground up they actually have a coffee estate and we actually work on sourcing coffee from them as well um called salara and they also have their nice coffee shop in on double Road on Thea road shop you say for kombucha I actually like Umami breu from Pune that's a nice brand it's a good brand I like that brand yeah they make nice kombucha I discovered them at isumi oh you did nice see that that's the thing would you said right a lot of your Discovery for beverages will happen at a hka at a isumi or something like that and it makes a big difference when you try the product at a well established restaurant or a cafe you can't do that for coffee right you rely too much on the person who's Brewing it yeah and in most places coffee is seen as a okay I invested in the machine Any random person can make the coffee they're not going to put the same care and effort that a coffee shop would and for they call this category NAB or NAD right non alcohol non alcohol there's in India I would drink a fever tree happily it's available Fever Tree Fever Tree is the UK based company they're in India now uh publicly listed good stock to see by the way just to understand the consumption M and globally there's a brand actually that I've not tried all the products of but for me it's a very interesting study to see their products is a brand from Australia called Strange Love yeah very cool product superb Instagram page superb content overall you the product like the stuff they've done beautiful content plays a big role in all of this was it yeah